Just got back from theater. Movie is trash. I tried to give it a chance, I really hoped it would work, but it is garbage. It makes Zack Snyder's awareness of the criticisms of Man of Steel abundantly clear, but it's equally clear that he doesn't acknowledge them. This franchise is unsalvageable because the people running it think the answer is doubling down on grimdarkness and feebly imitating Marvel studios without understanding what makes those movies work.
I've typed thousands of words about what I think about it and deleted them all because they're too rambling, so I'll try to distill my take down to a best of and worst of list.
The three worst things about this movie:
-Like I said before, it does acknowledge the problems with Man of Steel. It knows that the horrific carnage and moral groundlessness were criticized, so it addresses them with bullshit throwaway lines and additional, even more direct violence. This has given me no hope at all for any future movies from this team of creators. They're not incompetent, they're just interested in making art that is completely counter to what I want to see. These movies are not for me.
-Just about everyone is wildly mischaracterized. Somehow a movie with Zack Snyder's Superman in it managed to still make Batman the villain. Zack Snyder's Batman is actually more terrible than Zack Snyder's Superman. I weep for you, Batman fans. And as a huge Lex Luthor supporter I can't figure out what this movie's Lex Luthor was supposed to be. His plan made no sense and he seemingly had no real reason for enacting it. This could be addressed in future movies, but at this point who cares?
-It's not functional as a movie. So much of it is spent talking, but nothing of value is said. No problems are solved, few if any interesting points are raised, and it's monstrously unfocused. And when the talking breaks for action the action is either deeply upsetting or just tedious. As a film it makes no sense because it basically requires you to bring a lot of pre-existing knowledge of these characters to the table, then ignore it when they fail to act consistently.
And, for balance, the three best things:
-Wonder Woman. She has an inconsistent characterization over DC's history, almost more than any other character, so there's a lot of room for interpretation here. So what did they go with? Lady Conan the Barbarian who's also a super spy I guess? Her outfit is pretty cool too. Too bad she's barely in the movie.
-Little talk of Krypton and next to no mention of Jor El. All of the Jor El shit in Man of Steel drove me crazy. It was the same bizarre, terrible message the new Spider-Man movies have: Superman is a good guy because he has good guy genes, his adopted parents be damned. We get a little of Johnathan Kent in this one and he isn't comparatively quite as mischaracterized as he was previously, and no Jor El. This almost makes it seem like Johnathan Kent had an effect on Clark's upbringing after all. Like maybe Superman is a man at heart and not a Kryptonian after all. Maybe this is faint praise because it's more a case of what didn't happen than what did, but I'm counting it as a positive.
-This is extremely faint praise because it's almost more criticism than it is a positive, but I'm struggling at this point: Parts of Doomsday addressed specific problems I have with him in the comics. He certainly didn't need to be in this movie, his effects certainly weren't good, and the ending of his fight was pretty weak, but at least his powers work more consistently than they do in the comics. And unlike in Death of Superman the first thing Superman does is try to fly him into space and away from people. I've always been bothered by the fact that that didn't happen in the comic. That's how silver age Superman would have beaten Doomsday, he would have stranded him on some distant uninhabited planet. It doesn't really go anywhere in this movie, but it was a nice gesture.
Ugh... I'm happy for anyone who liked it, but I went into this movie hoping for something specific and felt pretty explicitly shit upon.
By the way, is anybody here a big Batman fan who can weigh in on how they feel about his portrayal here? I can't figure out if Batman in this movie is more offensive than Superman in Man of Steel, but I think he probably is.
Regardless of reviews, my friends and I are going to go see it anyway and form our own opinions on it. Personally, I had low expectations anyway. I don't know how they could have did it better than the animated version, which was pretty good.
Btw, Ccool, have you seen superman vs. the elite? That sort of sounds like the superman you're describing.
I haven't. Honestly I haven't seen very much of DC's animation even though people love it for the most part. I'll add that to my watch list.
I have never been a fan of superhero comics, let alone movies about them, but the whole idea of Superman vs. Batman has made me think a lot about these characters.
Superman: Comes from a well-off family, lost his parents. An illegal immigrant, he was nonetheless taken in by a kindly Kansan family, who proceeded to indoctrinate him with their Kansan ways. This shows in his reporter work, as he is unwilling or unable to challenge the status quo in print. To relieve the internal conflict this causes with his moral compass, he prefers to get into disguise and unleash his wrath on criminals of every stripe and calibre. Openly heterosexual, the fact that he has not consummated his attraction for Lois Lane only adds to his sublimated rage, which he projects onto anyone who does not abide his own morality. Still, he maintains his blue collar reporter job, and does not show preference to race, creed or nationality in terms of who he protects, relying solely on his innate abilities to make the world a better place.
Batman: Comes from a well-off family, lost his parents. Spent his entire life in the lap of privilege. Not only does he have no innate superpowers; he does not seem to have any sort of remarkable talent to speak of at all. Uses his hoards of wealth to build machines and devices to "fight crime", and refuses to share his technology with anyone else. This is because he sees himself as the sole arbiter of justice, which the highest echelons of the police force are more than happy to abide by turning a blind eye to his vicious vigilante attacks. Claims to be sticking up for the downtrodden, he fails to recognize the axes of oppression that have created the major villains he fights again. Takes himself entirely too seriously, and leans heavily upon not one but two assistants to do his grunt work for him, while more than happy to take the credit for himself.
A battle between Superman and Batman is not a battle between the proletariat and the ruling class. It is a battle between two self-appointed unilateral arbiters of morality; one naturally so, the other having bought his way there. Rooting for one as opposed to the other is a false dichotomy. Compare these two to Wonder Woman, who, while literally an aristocrat, deliberately left her vaunted title - taking no small effort on her part - to fight for justice for the downtrodden, through a combination of innate ability and Amazon technology.
In conclusion, Wonder Woman stole the show because she is the only real superhero in a movie ostensibly created to highlight the pretenders.
In a broad sense outside of the scope of this movie I don't fully agree with you, but if we're just talking about the film continuity then... Uh... Yeah.
This is the first superhero movie I've seen to make me go WTF?!!! Highlights include: Also, apparently Zack Synder thought Batman = Zorro... Which makes sense actually.
The first hour of this movie is really boring... and weird. Only in the climax we finally see Batman vs Superman, , and Wonder Woman.
Now I see why critics don't like this movie.
The floating bats thing was referred to as a dream. Not that that makes it that much less ridiculous, but it wasn't supposed to be literal.
There's a canon Batman/Zorro connection, and it's referenced in this movie. The Waynes were shot on their way home from a screening of The Mark of Zorro, and that movie was part of what inspired Bruce to become Batman. You can see Zorro posters in the alley during the Batman origin sequence in this movie too. It's definitely an established part of the character being referenced, not something Snyder came up with.
