Topic: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL  (Read 115383 times)

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Reu

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2016, 06:41:03 am »
If its Yukari, that would explain why she didn't do anything about this incident. Because she was do busy solving this incident.

Or, it will be Nue.

Not really sure if Nue would fit in, since a plot point in her chapter pretty much states that she got left out of the fun, and technically her associated urban legend isn't a "real" one.
But that depends on the plot of the new story that's been hinted at, since ZUN doesn't want to add just anyone.

From a gameplay point of view I personally don't want to see Yukari again though, I'm in the camp that kinda wants to see someone underused get some spotlight.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2016, 12:34:36 pm »
Wriggle and Kaguya? They're in the scrapped from Hisoutensoku boat.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2016, 02:37:22 pm »
I'm sure Kaguya can easily get in with a moon-related urban legend/myth, such as the "moon is actually an alien satellite/spaceship" belief.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2016, 03:32:39 pm »
Yukari not participating is already explained in Marisa's Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom ending, albeit in a semi-vague cryptic manner.   Far as I recall, Marisa calls her out for not participating and Yukari implies she didn't participate because she didn't see it as a threat (possibly more specifically, that Gensokyo can change from something like that and it wouldn't be a big deal), making Marisa wonder (and kinda get scared at) what the heck would have to constitute as a threat to get Yukari to participate if that incident wasn't threatening enough.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 03:35:31 pm by Tiamat »

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2016, 09:50:36 pm »
Making Marisa wonder (and kinda get scared at) what the heck would have to constitute as a threat to get Yukari to participate if that incident wasn't threatening enough.

If I remember correctly, ZUN said that this whole "Earth invasion incident" wasn't really serious. Like, there are heavenly super powerful gods among Lunarians. If they really wanted to purify Gensokyo/make it disappear, not even Gensokyo residents would notice.
Maybe that's why Yukari's not really interested at all.
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Clarste

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2016, 11:52:28 am »
If I remember correctly, ZUN said that this whole "Earth invasion incident" wasn't really serious. Like, there are heavenly super powerful gods among Lunarians. If they really wanted to purify Gensokyo/make it disappear, not even Gensokyo residents would notice.
Maybe that's why Yukari's not really interested at all.

You're mixing things up a bit: he did say that there are higher gods on the moon that we've never met (ie: Eirin isn't all that important), and also that the Lunarians could wipe out humanity without us even noticing, but they weren't connected thoughts. Sagume, who is presumably one of these middle management gods who aren't all that important, could've wiped out humanity whenever she wanted to, but she didn't so she enacted this other invasion plan.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2016, 07:05:23 pm »
You're mixing things up a bit: he did say that there are higher gods on the moon that we've never met (ie: Eirin isn't all that important), and also that the Lunarians could wipe out humanity without us even noticing, but they weren't connected thoughts. Sagume, who is presumably one of these middle management gods who aren't all that important, could've wiped out humanity whenever she wanted to, but she didn't so she enacted this other invasion plan.

Oh, I see, thanks for pointing that out.
It still doesn't invalidate my point tho ;(
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2016, 09:17:35 pm »
Will Renko and Merry be playable?
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2016, 01:52:13 am »
Most certainly, they will not. I can hardly think of any characters with more various reasons to not be playable than those two  :V.

That said, much as I don't like the "it was beneath Yukari" explanation (as it cheapens the biggest crisis in Gensokyo to date just to pimp her up), the solution to involve her in the events without making her actually playable is obvious. And indeed, it's about time Ran got some spotlight and a set of spell cards not imitating Yukari's - she could be silently checking up on the barrier, encounter some characters on the way (most notably Mamizou) and finally find some early clue for the next incident.

If ZUN felt especially brave, he could use the foxball from WaHH as her urban legend and involve Fox!Marisa somehow - with the most mindblowing twist possible being that said kitsune imitating Marisa would be Ran herself.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2016, 02:22:15 am »
(as it cheapens the biggest crisis in Gensokyo to date just to pimp her up)
The occult ball incident wasn't really any worse than any other incident, Sumirenko didn't really prove that much of an threat to Gensokyo to be honest other than opening a small hole in Gensokyo. And the Lunar "Invasion" was really just a pol to trick Reimu and co. into helping the Lunars get back their home. If they REALLY wanted Genoskyo, they would have sent the Moonbitches from Silent Sinner in Blue to wipe Gensokyo out with one hand behind their backs.

Also that explanation doesn't really pimp Yukari up, in fact it does the opposite and makes her look like a hypocritical idiot who'll beat up some random spoiled rich girl just because she broke some oldass dirty shrine. But does nothing about the temporal breakage of the thing that is her job to monitor. It also doesn't change the fact that not using a character who's enter purpose is to monitor the fucking border in a game where said border gets broken, makes ZUN look like a lazy writer. (Still a better writer than 99% of the other writers who work in the games industry thou.)

But if Ran Yakumo is the playable character. Then all of that will be fixed, Yukari won't be a hypocrite anymore, ZUN won't be considered lazy anymore, people won't have arguments over Yukari anymore. And the world will be at peace. Also it would be awesome.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2016, 04:30:07 am »
My impression of Yukari's comments in LoLK was that they were meant to call into doubt what we think we know about her (particularly her motivations). The assumption that of course she'd get involved whenever the barrier is threatened and of course she'd help protect Gensokyo from outside threats is exactly what Marisa brought into the conversation, and exactly what terrified her when she realized she was wrong. Ultimately the purpose of the scene was to reposition Yukari as an unknown/potential-villain instead of a background Big Good who we can rely on to pop up and fix everything with a wave of her hand when things get serious. It puts the youkai back in youkai, something that's been a long term project of late, particularly in the comics.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:36:21 am by Clarste »

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2016, 05:35:48 am »
Oh yeah, that too.

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« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 06:12:00 am by the old guy »
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2016, 10:28:13 am »
#Yukariforbestvillain2k16
I will wholeheartedly support this.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2016, 12:37:50 pm »
Yukari probably just slept through ULiL the same way she slept through PCB and the breaking of the Barrier between the Netherwold and Gensokyo. (Did she ever actually fix that one?) She's been visibly awake and around since then. It wouldn't be too much of a suprise for her to take a good old nap.

I am however in full support of her or Ran taking actions. I much more expect her to reappear in CoLA and meet Sumireko that way, though. She was one of the more regular visitors of the shop.

Maple

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2016, 04:15:37 pm »
3) On new character(s): ZUN said you can't just add random characters to the game. He might add someone who makes people suspect "something has begun."
Based on this, i'll do the process of elimination. I'm almost sure that ZUN will do something new (story-wise), so he won't recycle old plots.
Ignoring the already discussed Yukari and Nue, i don't know if the PS4 version will be simultaneous with the PC version (so no LoLK characters because they weren't introduced yet) or the new material happens later, Hisoutensoku-style (a chance for LoLK characters)
*I consider that the residents of the SDM and Hakugyokurou are too well-stablished
*Team ⑨ is full of bakas.
*Letty couldn't work in a long plot because is only active on the winter.
*From Eientei: Eirin is a mastermind, someone who would send others to fight, Kaguya is a NEET refined princess that wouldn't fight by herself (unless we are talking about Mokou), Tewi is too minor.
*Suika is just a drunkard.
*Yuuka and Medicine are too absorbed in their hobbies.
*The innumerable gods of Youkai Mountain wouldn't influence in a major plot
*Aya and Hatate would work better doing the generic work of paparazzi journalism, but not being involved in a notable incident. I don't see Momiji as someone who would go out to beat people in a incident.
*The Moriya shrine could plot a new conspiracy, but it would almost certainly be on the excuse of gathering faith, too predictable.
*Tenshi is an spoiled girl and Iku her nanny. They wouldn't attempt something new.
*The underground residents are in their own secluded world, not much of a reason to go out in Gensokyo. (except for Koishi because she's Koishi)
*If they need output from the Buddhist and Taoist factions, they have the already-present playable characters.
*Kogasa's modus vivendy is (attempting) to scare people. A simple girl with simple motivations, but too predictable.
*Waggysaggy couldn't work properly out of the water
*Nobody cares for the Tsukumos.
*Seija already has her own game, and simple motivations (too bad, her contrariness could be comedy gold).
*Aside of Kasen, the manga-intruduced characters don't have the physical or magical prowess to fight, nor too much motivation to pick up fights on people on the level of the already-seen characters (eg. Byakuren, Miko, Reimu, Marisa) as if it was nothing. Except for the moonbitches, they are too OP.

My predictions:
Keine (low probability, could do something to protect humans but not much), Reisen (the one that does all the heavy work for Eientei), Komachi/Eiki (low for Komachi as she was already playable in a fighter game, better probability for Eiki, who could do something in reference to the newly-introduced Hecatia), Seiga (low probability, seen by others as 2evil4u, could have some fun for herself), Sekibanki/Kagerou (Moderate probability, they are relatively new and fresh, they could do something to scare off the human population).
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:21:06 pm by Maple »

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2016, 10:13:57 pm »
*From Eientei: Eirin is a mastermind, someone who would send others to fight, Kaguya is a NEET refined princess that wouldn't fight by herself (unless we are talking about Mokou), Tewi is too minor.
This is actually untrue, she fights by herself in IN, In fact its the opposite for Eirin, who has Kaguya help her while fighting the main heroines.
She pretty lazy otherwise thou.

Also Seiga would be fucking awesome. Love that little sexy badass evil devil hermit.

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Yukari probably just slept through ULiL the same way she slept through PCB and the breaking of the Barrier between the Netherwold and Gensokyo. (Did she ever actually fix that one?) She's been visibly awake and around since then. It wouldn't be too much of a suprise for her to take a good old nap.
Sure theres that theory too. But thats a boring theory IMO. Here's a more interesting one: Yukari was awake THE ENTIRE TIME and actually helped Sumirenko cause the incident, why? So that she could study how the new kids in town (The Taoists and The Buddhists) would react to an major league incident! It was all a test!

(Also no she never fixed that one, #Yukariformostlazyvillain2k16)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 10:18:14 pm by the old guy »
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2016, 10:59:39 pm »
Yukari probably just slept through ULiL the same way she slept through PCB and the breaking of the Barrier between the Netherwold and Gensokyo. (Did she ever actually fix that one?)
Before the barrier was broken, usually people were only able to visit the Netherworld once they had died. People can still go there, so it's still broken. Anyways, it's not really about "thing that needs to be fixed but isn't being fixed", but rather "does this thing even need to be fixed in the first place? no? ok then". The important thing is that "the barrier between the Netherworld and Gensokyo was thinned" is just the explanation for the Netherworld opening up as a location that was previously inaccessible. This is pretty much the same narrative action as "Kaguya lifted the spell of eternity from Eientei", "a geyser erupted and things happened"; they serve the same purpose.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2016, 11:32:00 pm »
The only characters I can see being playable are Kaguya and Nue. Nue fits the ULiL theme perfectly, she even has devised her own urban legend in FS, and Kaguya because she can 'prelude' the events of LoLK since Kaguya and Eirin knew of what was happening before. Now I think Eirin is likely too, but I think Kaguya would be more likely since was at one point intended to be in Soku. Though, I wonder if the same thing for why Kaguya wasn't put in Soku would happen again (i.e. too many final bosses!). If that were the case though, the same logic would apply to Nue as well.

Then again, the ULiL cast is this:
Reimu, Marisa, Koishi, Kokoro, Mamizou, Kasen, Shinmyoumaru, Mokou, Ichirin, Futo, Miko, Byakuren, Nitori, Sumireko
2 mains characters
3 extras
4 final bosses
2 stage 3s
1 stage 5
2 new(ish) characters (1 being a final boss)

This game already has 4(5) final bosses, so to add another final boss (Kaguya/Eirin) might be adding too much... It could possibly be Tewi, but that wouldn't make much sense...

So obviously the answer is Rin Satsuki.

Clarste

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2016, 01:49:17 am »
I don't think either Kaguya or Nue would make me suspect that something was happening.
Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2016, 04:29:09 am »
She pretty lazy otherwise thou.
Inaba shows her to be pretty hardworking at times.

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2016, 06:18:19 am »
Oh hey, potential new ULiL character?
From a personal standpoint, I would love to see more DDC representation in the game, even though the suspicion hint kinda rules a bunch out to me, considering most of the DDC cast are usually docile if I remember correctly. Seija I feel could fit in that description, and maybe even Raiko, if not that, then because of her connections with the outside world? She might be too clunky though with the drumset and all. Otherwise I too kinda feel Nue is a potential because of both her being such a mysterious creature, and her inherant troublemaker attitude.

Pretty excited for this though, gonna buy it as soon as it gets released.

Edit: Though now that I think about it, because of their docility, they could be suspicious as they were during DDC... but obviously I'm overthinking it and have bias towards DDC, haha.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 06:22:11 am by Ozzter »
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #81 on: April 02, 2016, 03:00:13 pm »
Rin Satsuki had to be thrown out due to time constraints and ZUN pretty much implied she won't be coming back. However, if we can ask ZUN to draw what she was going to look like for us, that'd be nice.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #82 on: April 02, 2016, 05:59:34 pm »
Rin Satsuki had to be thrown out due to time constraints and ZUN pretty much implied she won't be coming back. However, if we can ask ZUN to draw what she was going to look like for us, that'd be nice.

It is kinda offtopic but, tbh, ZUN didn't even remember Rin when someone asked for her in... AWA, maybe?
So my bet is that probably he doesn't remember her design anyway lol
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2016, 06:17:56 pm »
It is kinda offtopic but, tbh, ZUN didn't even remember Rin when someone asked for her in... AWA, maybe?
So my bet is that probably he doesn't remember her design anyway lol
He could look through his stacks of old concept art if he still has them, but that's just a guess.
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Clarste

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #84 on: April 03, 2016, 03:10:47 am »
I'm not sure he even has concept art, depending on how far into the process her scrapped her. Whenever he discusses his development process, it seems like he basically makes things up as he goes along. Like, he doesn't design all the characters before making the game, he just goes through the stages one by one, decides on the thematic elements of the stage, comes up with music to fit the themes, and then designs a character to fit the music he just wrote. It wouldn't surprise me if he came up with Rin's shottypes before he even had a picture of her in his head.

And even if he did draw it, it's likely it's been thrown away by now, along with all the other rejected designs we never hear about and he never thinks about.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 03:14:08 am by Clarste »

Reu

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #85 on: April 03, 2016, 05:42:31 pm »
It is kinda offtopic but, tbh, ZUN didn't even remember Rin when someone asked for her in... AWA, maybe?
So my bet is that probably he doesn't remember her design anyway lol

To be fair, he doesn't need to remember her design. If he were to have her "return" he could just give her a new one.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2016, 07:24:36 pm »
To be fair, he doesn't need to remember her design. If he were to have her "return" he could just give her a new one.
Why stop there? He could give her a new surname, like with Alice and Yuuka.

...wait a minute.
Quote
(Image removed from quote.)
Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2016, 02:29:20 pm »
What if Rin Kaenbyou is indeed Rin Satsuki "resurrected?"

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Reu

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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2016, 03:23:28 pm »
What if Rin Kaenbyou is indeed Rin Satsuki "resurrected?"

0_0

Would probably be worse off for her, still not being playable.
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Re: ZUN announces PS4 version of Touhou 14.5 ULiL
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2016, 10:37:16 pm »
It's entirely possible that any ideas he may have had for a character called Rin Satsuki were cannibalised into one of the other characters from that era, like Sakuya or Youmu. Sometimes early ideas just get replaced with better ones.
 

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