Author Topic: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: End Of Evangelion  (Read 26891 times)

commandercool

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Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: End Of Evangelion
« on: September 16, 2015, 01:38:01 AM »
As anyone who knows me probably knows, I l-o-v-e the classic 1995 Gainax anime Neon Genesis Evangelion. It is my favorite anime, and pretty much my favorite thing. I've seen it a dozen times or so, mostly recently about a year ago with my roommate, who is also a huge Eva fan but who I had never watched it with, and one of my neighbors, who had seen it years ago but didn't really remember it.

Well, about a year ago since my last viewing is too long, and I'm ready to watch it again. I figured I'd try something different this time, and I've already forced it on everyone I know who has the tiniest chance of actually liking it. So this time I figured I'd try poking around on the internet and see if I can find someone to watch it with me. What do you guys think, is anyone out there interested in watching Evangelion and talking about it? I'm thinking it would be fun to get a handful of people to watch it together, maybe an episode or two a week. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts, be they new to the series or longtime fans or anything else. I get something new out of Evangelion every time I watch it, but bringing in some fresh blood seems like it would be a great opportunity for some new ideas and interpretations.

So does this sound interesting to anyone? If I was planning this out right I would wait for the Blu-Ray release, but I want to watch it now and frankly after how long it's taken Rebuild 3.0 to not come out I'm not confident we'll be seeing it any time soon.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 02:33:27 AM by commandercool »
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2015, 05:11:19 AM »
Sounds fun. I might hitch a ride if more people show interest.
My roommate just finished watching the tv series with another ffriend and has a couple figures. Guess I can watch it again since it's been awhile since I've seen the original. I could make some time for best girl Ramiel.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 12:33:05 PM »
SUP LET'S DO THIS
IT MAY BE MY 17TH TIME REWATCHING BUT SURE

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 01:15:36 PM »
What's a group watch?

commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 02:15:13 PM »
It's a thing I assume is real where a bunch of people watch something and then talk about it. Either that, or it's a thing I just made up.

In this case I'm thinking something along the lines of people watch two episodes during the week, and on a particular day (Sunday?) we compare notes for those episodes.
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BT

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 03:18:54 PM »
Yeah more or less. I'm not big on analyzing Eva but I might join in anyway.

commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 03:42:36 PM »
I'm not necessarily interested in analyzing Eva as a whole (although I'm sure there will be plenty of that) in this case. The reason this format occurred to me is that I've never really evaluated it on an episode-by-episode basis.

It's my intent this time to focus more on each episode on its own merits. The first chunk of the series in particular is pretty episodic, so there should be plenty to look at. I suppose that counts as analysis, but hopefully not in the most traditional sense.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2015, 12:00:10 AM »
Alright, well, looks like we got a few people. Sounds good to me. I'm going to watch the first two episodes over the course of next week and be back here to talk about them next Sunday I guess.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 02:11:13 AM »
Oh god I forgot all about this! I had a crazy week leading up to last Sunday and then I just forgot. I, uh, haven't watched anything. Please wait warmly, I'll get around to this at some point soon. It will probably just be me talking to myself mostly, but that happens a lot anyway. Sorry.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 02:48:59 AM »
Was wondering what happened to this. I have a little list of notes from the week of last on my laptop I can post once I get back.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2015, 04:52:00 AM »
Alright, alright, I'm finally kicking this off. Sorry I suck so bad, I'll try to keep on track now that I've gotten rolling here. Fuck me for being a week late of the 20-year anniversary. I don't know how the format for this should work at all, so I'm just going to try dividing my notes up into episodes and running with them. I watched the first two episodes, from the Platinum DVD box set, subbed.

Episode one-Angel Attack:
Right out of the gate, first thing, is of course the opening credits. A lot has been written about this opening given the anniversary, but... Yeah... I think it's safe to say that this remains the best title sequence of all time. Was the anime tradition of changing up the opening every few episodes established at this point? Because if it was, major credit to Gainax for resisting the urge (and forgoing the expense) to ever change it.

Eva was the show that turned me on to anime after many failed attempts by different people to try to hook me on different shows throughout my childhood and teens. I credit a lot of that to how fast it jumps into the action, and not in a superficial way either. It's easy to slap a flashy-but-pointless (or if not pointless, contextless) action sequence in the first two minutes of a show and call that a fast start, but Eva does the first few minutes right. Eva was the first anime I ever watched that completely hooked me from the first few minutes, and that may be the only reason I love the medium so much today. I don't know that that necessarily makes it the best choice to introduce just anyone to anime though. I've seen a handful of people get engaged by the first episode but get turned off by the downshift in momentum in some of the following episodes, but it worked for me and it remains one of my picks for babby's first anime for people with a taste that accommodates how slow and weird it gets sometimes.

I'm sure this is something that I'm going to the say a lot to the point of obnoxiousness, but I do think it applies here: the opening scene is iconic. When I think of Evangelion, the imagery in this scene is one of the first things that comes to mind. Short of seeing the robots it lays out most of the major imagery that we'll be seeing a lot of for the rest of the series, too. The desolate empty cities with the washed-out blue color palette, rolling green hills, the NERV bridge and associated technobabble, Shinji being mildly aghast at things, the nice baseline that Sachiel sets for what the Angels might be and do. Most of the major motifs of the series are here.

Sachiel itself is bizarre. I don't think it's one of the stronger monster designs in the series, which is too bad for being among the very first things we see the second the series starts, but again, it kind of sets a trend that gets improved upon as the monsters get weirder. Gotta love its face though, I've said before that if I ever get a tattoo it will probably be of Sachiel's weird beak mask.

I have a decent-sized collection of Eva toys, mostly Revoltechs, and it's been a consistent source of frustration to me that nobody has ever done a toy of Sachiel (or if anyone has it's not readily available). It's the right size and shape to make a traditional action figure unlike most of the Angels and Eva has merchandise of absolutely everything, so why no Angel Revoltechs? Get on it, Japan.

I think it's a little weird how casually Shinji and Misato shrug off being so close to what we as the audience have no reason to assume at this point isn't a nuclear weapon. It makes a lot of sense to show how badass the monster is by showing it surviving a huge bomb blast, but the decision to have it be so close as to flip Misato's car seems like a weird choice. That never really pays off in any particular way, and although that scene is where Shinji and Misato introduce themselves to each-other and the audience there's no reason it particularly had to work like that. And if one N2 bomb hurt Sachiel that badly would a second one finish it off? Did they just have the one? Maybe Gendo has inside knowledge that pelting it with more bombs would just cause it to repeatedly regenerate stronger than before, but it seems like it would have been worth trying.

I'm not generally one of those people who hates Shinji (he's obviously kind of unlikable a lot of the time, but I also find him to be pretty relatable and I don't begrudge him most of his bullshit), but he is kind of an ass to Misato in this episode given that they've just met. Maybe that's just his shock at almost being stepped on by an alien and almost being blown up, but he is pretty rude to her when they're in the car. I might even go as far as to say that how much he talks back to her is a little out of character for how passive he is a lot of the time. Obviously he gets pretty casual with her specifically pretty quickly, but given that she's an authority figure that he just met I'm surprised he was so outspoken. I guess a lot of that is also probably due to how intensely uninterested he is in being bossed around by Gendo.

I don't think I ever noticed before that Shinji calls the Tokyo-3 Geo-Front "a real Geo-Front", implying that there are more than one, and that this one might not be public knowledge (although maybe he's just ignorant). I wonder who has the other ones and what they look like. Given all of the plot relevance that the exact location of this one has it seems weird to me that there might be a bunch of them.

I don't have a ton to say about the introduction of Unit 01 or its activation. Aside from how bizarre Shinji and Gendo act there isn't much here that isn't standard giant robot fare, which I'm sure it by design. I guess the most notable thing is that we miss the usual tedious training montages because everything happens so fast. I'm not incredibly well-versed in the mecha genre though, especially not accounting for trends that Eva created itself, so maybe there's something else going on here that unique to this show at this point, but if there is it went over my head.

A lot of people have said before that the Eva launch sequence doesn't really  seem to make sense with the geography of Tokyo-3 and the Geo-Front, and that's true, but it looks so cool...

The end credits sequence is just one of many pieces of sound design that I will never not associate with Evangelion. It's a weird choice, but I love it.




Episode two-Unfamiliar Ceiling
Unit 01 being skewered through the head by Sachiel's laser is the first appearance of the classic Eva "super high-pressure blood geyser". It's weird that it's so brief in this instance. Did the wound heal that fast, or was that all of the blood in Unit 01's head?

One of the conversations that I have periodically with different people about Eva concerns the point at which it must have started to become clear for people watching this show as it was airing that it wasn't "just another robot show". People often point to scenes in this episode, and I think the cut away from the Sachiel fight to Shinji in the hospital might be a decent answer. It's quite a power play on the show's part, to just skip the fight scene and cut to the aftermath, although of course they do go back and show everything that happened pretty quickly. Obviously it doesn't give much of a hint as to the scope or content of the show, but it's the first obvious case of something out of the ordinary for a run-of-the-mill mecha show happening even if it is pretty minor.

The Seele glasses guy mentions something about "now that the Angels are public knowledge", and it occurs to me that I've never been that clear on how that works. Obviously everyone on Earth knows about Second Impact, but do ordinary people know about Angels from that time? I suppose they probably don't, which means there must be some crazy shit going on offscreen with people learning that there are goddamn aliens walking around now. Or maybe living through Second Impact makes you jaded and nobody's that surprised. But if this is in fact the first time anything this crazy has become public knowledge it's pretty remarkable that every line of passing dialogue from randos that we overhear for the rest of the series isn't about how aliens are a thing now. And then again there's a line later on from Misato about "hushing up the truth", although it isn't clear exactly what she's talking about. I'm assuming that refers more to Unit 01 than to the Angel, but I'm not sure if we ever find out for sure at what point the public learns what.

I forgot that Gendo and Shinji living together was ever even on the table. I want to see the show that would have been... Actually, I just want to see where Gendo lives at all. We see his office, but I don't think we ever see where he sleeps, do we?

This episode is the first appearance of Pen Pen, which brings me to one of the biggest things that still confounds me about this series. What is the point of Pen Pen? Why is he in the show? Did all anime absolutely have to have a mascot at this point and he was the most fitting one they could think of? It he supposed to be a hint that humans are dabbling in genetic experimentation? There aren't that many instances of Pen Pen contributing anything to the series that I can think of, he just seems out of place mostly. There is one point later on where I feel like he almost justifies his existence and I'll point it out when we get there if I remember, but mostly I think he's one of the most inexplicable things in Eva.

This is also the first appearance of Shinji's tape deck. I wonder if the meta-significance* that it gains in Rebuild 2.0  with the 27th track was just a lucky coincidence, or if it was somehow meant to mean something when the original series was being written. Without that extra bit in a movie that surely hadn't been conceived yet when this episode was written I can't imagine what the significance of the specific tracks he keeps looping was. *(If you don't remember, Shinji constantly loops tracks 25 and 26 on his tape deck. This parallels, whether intentionally or not, the 25th and 26th episodes of the series, which are the last two and which we see multiple times from different perspectives. In Rebuild 2.0 he skips to the 27th track shortly before the plot starts to change significantly from the original series, indicating that we're not looping the same events any more.)

Another of the scenes that people like to point to as being a potential early cue to audiences that this show isn't a standard mech show is the fight scene at the end of the episode. You could argue that it's basically superficial at this point, we learn that Unit 01 is self-aware and that it's organic under its armor, but there's no reason any old mech show couldn't just throw in that twist and still be basically the same. If there's anything truly out of the ordinary here it's that sound that Unit 01 makes. Coming to life and freaking out like a weird animal is one thing, but that sound means business.

This was the first time that I ever figured out how the perspective on the scene where Shinji sees Unit 01 with its helmet off works. I never noticed before that he was seeing it reflected in the side of a building. I always just thought the camera made no sense. Don't know how I missed that. Also, Unit 01 has a vagina for an eye, to be mirrored later in Cosmic Rei's various vagina-based body parts. Sort of makes sense, given the particulars of what all went into making it.




Well, that's what I got for the first two episodes. That took a lot longer than I expected, and that's more notes than I would have guessed. What do you guys think, if anyone's still out there after I fucked up the timing as bad as I did?
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2015, 08:05:01 AM »
The Seele glasses guy mentions something about "now that the Angels are public knowledge", and it occurs to me that I've never been that clear on how that works. Obviously everyone on Earth knows about Second Impact, but do ordinary people know about Angels from that time?
Seeing as the Second Impact was initiated by a failed contact experiment conducted by Seele-funded secret(?) expeditions in Antarctica, it makes sense that no one knows about Angels until they actually appear in Tokyo-3 in broad daylight in the first episode. The name itself, "Second Impact" refers to the cover-up they used to explain away the huge disaster. They call it the second impact because they explain that it was actually the result of an impact from a very small meteor moving at significant fractions of the speed of light. The 'very small' bit is important, since they can now claim that it was too small and too fast to have been able to be detected. The 'Second' bit refers to the meteor that killed all the dinosaurs and blotted out the sun for a couple millennia, which the coverup calls the First Impact. Since the governments who know this is a coverup but are demanding an actual explanation from whoever was responsible need something to chew on, Seele/Nerv introduces the term Third Impact, which I think they just explain that another big catastrophe will happen if they allow an Angel to contact the white Giant below Geofront. As for why the people don't seem so panicked from finding out about titanic genocidal aliens, it may have had to do in part with what you said about people being jaded since the Second Impact, but I think if the government just said that they had been expecting them for years and have a way to deal with them (Tokyo-3), people would blindly rejoice at having something to hope on and cling to. And carry on like usual. Since nothing's scarier than change.

Anyway, since someone finally started, and I didn't want to be the first, now I'll go ahead and post my notes now.

Ep1
My thoughts start off with the first words someone would have heard when this show first aired, which would be the opening line of the intro:

-   残酷な天使の様に、少年よ、神話になれ
Like a cruel angel, young boy, become a legend

Now what the heck does this even mean? The stories of something resembling a cruel angel that I can think of would be either the angel of death that killed the firstborne sons of the Egyptians during the 10th plague (a la Moses), or the other story of the angel of God killing the Israelites when David took a census of Israel. I guess one could argue that both instances of angels doing cruel things both ended becoming legends of sorts. Then again, I can't imagine the Bible mentioning something casually and not managing to spawn a legend from it. Talking donkeys, anyone? If I had to extrapolate on similar circumstances, we could say that both angels were following orders from God, but were themselves just tools of destruction against something that God decided needed destruction-ing. If we can suppose that Gendo would represent God, with the song clearly referring to Shinji as the angel, then what could the target of destruction be? Alternatively, who would be the ones to see him as cruel? Maybe I'm trying to wade too deeply in shallow waters.


-   Angel -> Misato -> Shinji -> Gendo/Fuyutsuki
For whatever reason, I decided to notate in what order people appeared:

-   Sees ghost of Rei
I don't get this part (I expect to be saying this a lot). Why was he seeing an apparition of Rei? And what was with the cut to flying doves immediately after?

-   random Misato monologue about ruining best dress, putting in her 'all'
I didn't notice before, but Misato kinda comes off as strangely pedophile-ic. What with kissing Shinji in EoE, and trying to sleep with him in one of the later episodes, I don't get her deal.


-   単独兵器 about the angels self-regenerating
Gendo refers to the angels as autonomous/independent weapons. The 'weapons' bit strikes me as a bit of an odd choice for describing the angels. As the spawn of Adam, they're no less 'human' than we Lilin are, so it feels odd to call them weapons. A bit of early installment weirdness? The independent bit already makes it clear that we won't be expecting two Angels to attack at once.

-   もう一人の予備が届く about a pilot for Unit-01 arriving
"The other replacement/spare will be arriving". Gendo knows how Evas work, he and Fuyutsuki are both experts of Metaphysical Biology, and he knows that only Shinji can (reliably) pilot Unit-01, so why would he call him a spare? It feels like more of early installment weirdness, like the show didn't actually set down the mechanics of how the Evangelions worked, with the convoluted souls business and what not, and so they instead focused on Gendo's chessmaster, magnificent bastard, negligent father side. Then again, he says the "other spare", which probably also refers to him calling Rei disposable as well. Which, well, wouldn't strictly be wrong, but it still feels a bit odd. Unless they were talking about the Second Child, and then Shinji entered the conversation at some point, in which case Asuka would be the 'first replacement' and Shinji would be 'the other replacement'. Asuka being disposable is unfortunately rather true, but again Shinji isn't, so what the heck.

-   O9 system, 0.0000000001 percent activiation success rate
This made me laugh

-   予備が使えなくなった
"The spare is unusable." Gendo says this to Fuyutsuki before telling him to go call Rei in reference to Shinji when he says he can't pilot the Eva. It makes a little bit more sense here, in that Gendo seems to trust Rei more than Shinji in doing her job and following his orders. But Gendo also knows that Unit-01 is very important, hell, one of the key components, of Third Impact/Intrumentality. The only who can get Unit-01 to that phase in the plan is Shinji, so again I find it odd for Gendo to call him a spare. Unless this is just him being tsundere for Shinji off-screen.

-   Ritsuko: Someone with even a slight bit of success chance
-   Gendo: No other person can pilot it
And yet here, Gendo mentions that no one else can pilot it, so the show knows. What's going on?

-   Eva01 protects Shinji, Ritsuko is in shock because there's no entry plug
Ritsuko doesn't know how the Eva works? Or perhaps in theory the soul is only supposed to reside dormant in the Eva? Specifically, she's in shock that the Eva moved when there wasn't an entry plug inserted. She knows that the Eva is actually bio-organic, ie: that it's alive, so perhaps the Eva was designed to not function at all without an entry plug? I suppose they were somewhat surprised in ep. 24 as well when they found out that Unit-02 didn't have an entry plug inserted as well (or was that only unmanned?).


Ep2

My thoughts on the intro. The words in [brackets] are the flashes of text

Intro: (Middle main theme section)

Shows Eva01
[Eva 01]
Shows Eva01 then shows quick shot of Angel mask, then back to Eva01

Shows Red glowy sphere
[ATField]
Shows Kaworu dyed in red, then Rei with a full moon backshot
[Angels]

Shows Tokyo3
[Tokyo-3]
Shows Geofront
(Nerv Logo)
Shows nerv staff

This is that middle section right when the chorus kicks in with all that flashy jazz cutting here and there. This is a reduction, but I didn't cut out anything in between, the newlines just make it a bit easier to see the groupings. The section I want to emphasize is that middle section at [Angels]. Unlike the rest of the flashes of text, there isn't any shots of any angels before or after the text of [Angels] flashes in front of the screen. The only unassociated shots around that are those of Kawori and Rei. Kaworu's red-ness can tie back to the red sphere right before the word [AT Field] flashes, potentially indicating that the red-ness of his picture is actually him deploying his AT Field, but then what of Rei? This could perhaps be a very early foreshadowing of Rei's and later Kaworu's true identities. The full moon behind Rei is also obviously foreshadowing.

-  AT Field doesn't activate
I found this odd. Why doesn't his AT Field activate? It only activates after it goes into berserk mode, after which the AT Field functions like normal in the next episodes.

-   Eye pierce
-   Cut to Shinji in a white hospital bed
It's been so long since I've seen Evangelion that I don't remember this part. Heck there's a lot that feels entirely new to me because there's so much I don't remember, the car scenes from episode 1 being one of them. I'm realizing that so much of my expectations of how I expect the show to present itself come from me watching Rebuild more times, more recently. This part in particular, like CC mentions, is really the point where I would expect viewers to catch on that this isn't your typical super robot show. Even if this tips off that this is more of a real robot show, it still doesn't relay just how out there Evangelion really becomes, but it's a nice and unexpected twist of expectations to suddenly cut to Shinji in a hospital bed (did he have an eyepatch?). It's so sudden that I was actually stunned, rather disoriented, which retrospectively was a rather nice touch, since Shinji was also very disoriented after not knowing what had happened after the battle. I noticed that this ward of the hospital said something about brain nerve damage center, which was rather interesting. It lets the viewer know that yeah, piloting the Eva really sucks.

-   Title card eye catch

-   Eva01's disembodied head is being carried by a crane
I thought this was the decapitated head, but later I realized it was only the helmet.

-   Maya in background talks about a possibility of contamination at the site of the Angel's explosion
-   精神汚染 Mental contamination, Misato's worry about Shinji's memory jog
Either the show hadn't decided yet whether Angels were some hostile alien monster species whose very biology was harmful to human beings, or this is what the people in the show believed, which Maya had to dispel. It's funny that mental contamination appears so early in the show, considering what happens later on.

-   That disembodied head was just the front portion of the helmet
Like I said.

-   He looks at reflection of Eva on the right side, eye regenerates
Like CC said, it took me a while of staring at the screen and rotating my head like an owl to finally get that he was looking at a reflection of Unit-01 from the side of a wall or building or something. They should really emphasize those panel lines on that reflective surface more, I thought I was looking at the actual Unit-01.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2015, 12:13:43 PM »
...explanation of the second impact thing...

Makes sense to me.


-   残酷な天使の様に、少年よ、神話になれ
Like a cruel angel, young boy, become a legend

Now what the heck does this even mean? The stories of something resembling a cruel angel that I can think of would be either the angel of death that killed the firstborne sons of the Egyptians during the 10th plague (a la Moses), or the other story of the angel of God killing the Israelites when David took a census of Israel. I guess one could argue that both instances of angels doing cruel things both ended becoming legends of sorts. Then again, I can't imagine the Bible mentioning something casually and not managing to spawn a legend from it. Talking donkeys, anyone? If I had to extrapolate on similar circumstances, we could say that both angels were following orders from God, but were themselves just tools of destruction against something that God decided needed destruction-ing. If we can suppose that Gendo would represent God, with the song clearly referring to Shinji as the angel, then what could the target of destruction be? Alternatively, who would be the ones to see him as cruel? Maybe I'm trying to wade too deeply in shallow waters.

The composer famously never had and still has not seen the show, so I think it's safe to assume they gave her the roughest possible outline and she composed a song that has few if any ties to the source material.

-   Sees ghost of Rei
I don't get this part (I expect to be saying this a lot). Why was he seeing an apparition of Rei? And what was with the cut to flying doves immediately after?

The most common-sense explanation of that is that this is Quantum Rei from End Of Evangelion when she gains the ability to be in all places at once to begin harvesting human souls. Presumably she also gains the ability to be in all times at once as well, and this is the earliest and most innocent instance of Shinji she knows about. EoE Rei came back in time to see him for a moment, for whatever reason.

-   random Misato monologue about ruining best dress, putting in her 'all'
I didn't notice before, but Misato kinda comes off as strangely pedophile-ic. What with kissing Shinji in EoE, and trying to sleep with him in one of the later episodes, I don't get her deal.

Canon spends a lot of time establishing that Misato (and just about everyone else) is a sad, broken person. This is probably part of that. She had too weird of a childhood to have well-established boundaries.

-   単独兵器 about the angels self-regenerating
Gendo refers to the angels as autonomous/independent weapons. The 'weapons' bit strikes me as a bit of an odd choice for describing the angels. As the spawn of Adam, they're no less 'human' than we Lilin are, so it feels odd to call them weapons. A bit of early installment weirdness? The independent bit already makes it clear that we won't be expecting two Angels to attack at once.

I'd chalk that up as a creative description of the whole "fruit of life" thing. Because they're more physically perfect than humans they're natural weapons? The obvious answer I suppose is that the show is still trying to trick the audience into thinking that Angels are just normal aliens so it's using misleading language, but maybe Gendo is also trying to deliberately mislead someone with his choice of words. I don't know who that might be, but maybe someone.

-   もう一人の予備が届く about a pilot for Unit-01 arriving
"The other replacement/spare will be arriving". Gendo knows how Evas work, he and Fuyutsuki are both experts of Metaphysical Biology, and he knows that only Shinji can (reliably) pilot Unit-01, so why would he call him a spare? It feels like more of early installment weirdness, like the show didn't actually set down the mechanics of how the Evangelions worked, with the convoluted souls business and what not, and so they instead focused on Gendo's chessmaster, magnificent bastard, negligent father side. Then again, he says the "other spare", which probably also refers to him calling Rei disposable as well. Which, well, wouldn't strictly be wrong, but it still feels a bit odd. Unless they were talking about the Second Child, and then Shinji entered the conversation at some point, in which case Asuka would be the 'first replacement' and Shinji would be 'the other replacement'. Asuka being disposable is unfortunately rather true, but again Shinji isn't, so what the heck.

-   予備が使えなくなった
"The spare is unusable." Gendo says this to Fuyutsuki before telling him to go call Rei in reference to Shinji when he says he can't pilot the Eva. It makes a little bit more sense here, in that Gendo seems to trust Rei more than Shinji in doing her job and following his orders. But Gendo also knows that Unit-01 is very important, hell, one of the key components, of Third Impact/Intrumentality. The only who can get Unit-01 to that phase in the plan is Shinji, so again I find it odd for Gendo to call him a spare. Unless this is just him being tsundere for Shinji off-screen.

My best guess is that this is just him being a dick. Although isn't it also theoretically possible for any of his renewable stock of Reis to activate Unit 01 since she has as much claim to that throne as Shinji, if not more? It was always my assumption that he was planning on using her to activate Third Impact from the beginning and was forced to use Shinji... for some reason? It makes sense that Unit 01 wouldn't be happy with that because Rei is an abomination, but I assumed Gendo thought he had some kind of way to force compatibility. Now I can't remember if there was a reason I thought that or if it's just extrapolation on my part.

-   Eva01 protects Shinji, Ritsuko is in shock because there's no entry plug
Ritsuko doesn't know how the Eva works? Or perhaps in theory the soul is only supposed to reside dormant in the Eva? Specifically, she's in shock that the Eva moved when there wasn't an entry plug inserted. She knows that the Eva is actually bio-organic, ie: that it's alive, so perhaps the Eva was designed to not function at all without an entry plug? I suppose they were somewhat surprised in ep. 24 as well when they found out that Unit-02 didn't have an entry plug inserted as well (or was that only unmanned?).

They may be bio-organic, but they literally have to be plugged in to function, so I think there are a lot of restrictions on how they should be able to move in theory. I think it makes sense that she's surprised. Granted, Unit 01 is probably plugged in and charged up right now because they plan on sending it into battle shortly, but if something like being out of batteries can theoretically shut one down then I think it makes sense that there are all sorts of conditions, whether deliberately installed as failsafes or due to an imperfect bonding of flesh to mechanical parts, that need to be met before they should be able to move. And presumably she doesn't know that Unit 01 has a soul. Does she? She probably just think it's a lifeless pile of flesh, but I can't remember if she knows the truth about its identity or not.

My thoughts on the intro. The words in [brackets] are the flashes of text

Intro: (Middle main theme section)

Shows Eva01
[Eva 01]
Shows Eva01 then shows quick shot of Angel mask, then back to Eva01

Shows Red glowy sphere
[ATField]
Shows Kaworu dyed in red, then Rei with a full moon backshot
[Angels]

Shows Tokyo3
[Tokyo-3]
Shows Geofront
(Nerv Logo)
Shows nerv staff

This is that middle section right when the chorus kicks in with all that flashy jazz cutting here and there. This is a reduction, but I didn't cut out anything in between, the newlines just make it a bit easier to see the groupings. The section I want to emphasize is that middle section at [Angels]. Unlike the rest of the flashes of text, there isn't any shots of any angels before or after the text of [Angels] flashes in front of the screen. The only unassociated shots around that are those of Kawori and Rei. Kaworu's red-ness can tie back to the red sphere right before the word [AT Field] flashes, potentially indicating that the red-ness of his picture is actually him deploying his AT Field, but then what of Rei? This could perhaps be a very early foreshadowing of Rei's and later Kaworu's true identities. The full moon behind Rei is also obviously foreshadowing.

Rei and the moon is one of the most persistent visual motifs in the show (along with, in a much more subtle way, Asuka and the sun), so I think it's safe to assume that's foreshadowing. The composer may not have known anything about the show when she wrote the song, but whoever put together the visuals of the opening seemed to.

-  AT Field doesn't activate
I found this odd. Why doesn't his AT Field activate? It only activates after it goes into berserk mode, after which the AT Field functions like normal in the next episodes.

Something to do with Shinji's low initial sync rate? As soon as he's out of the way Unit 01 can activate its AT Field, but he's probably doing more harm than good until then because he's untrained, not wearing a plugsuit, and his heart isn't in it.

-   Maya in background talks about a possibility of contamination at the site of the Angel's explosion
-   精神汚染 Mental contamination, Misato's worry about Shinji's memory jog
Either the show hadn't decided yet whether Angels were some hostile alien monster species whose very biology was harmful to human beings, or this is what the people in the show believed, which Maya had to dispel. It's funny that mental contamination appears so early in the show, considering what happens later on.

I don't know how much of this the NERV staff was prepared to deal with, so it's completely likely that Maya isn't fully informed on what Angels are and aren't. I wouldn't expect Gendo to reveal more to his underlings than he thinks he has to to get by. And besides that, even fully knowing what Angels are I wouldn't put it past at least some of them to have harmful biology. They seem to have a huge range of traits, so poison blood doesn't seem out of the question. That really crappy Angel with the acid tears from later on probably had harmful biology.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 12:31:17 PM by commandercool »
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2015, 03:07:04 PM »
The composer famously never had and still has not seen the show, so I think it's safe to assume they gave her the roughest possible outline and she composed a song that has few if any ties to the source material.
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Quote
My best guess is that this is just him being a dick. Although isn't it also theoretically possible for any of his renewable stock of Reis to activate Unit 01 since she has as much claim to that throne as Shinji, if not more? It was always my assumption that he was planning on using her to activate Third Impact from the beginning and was forced to use Shinji... for some reason? It makes sense that Unit 01 wouldn't be happy with that because Rei is an abomination, but I assumed Gendo thought he had some kind of way to force compatibility. Now I can't remember if there was a reason I thought that or if it's just extrapolation on my part.
I would go to the wiki, but I feel like that would be cheating since we're watching through all this anyway. Since not knowing is probably going to be more fun, drawing my own conclusions based on shreds of information I glean from the anime, I'll just go with that. Let's see, from what I remember and assume, the most basic requirements of a controlled Instrumentality should be:
1) Acquiring both fruit of life and fruit of knowledge
2) Fusing together both Adam and Lilith
Pragmatically speaking, (1) involves taking an S2 Engine from an angel in one of the battles, specifically having Unit-01 be the one to 'acquire' it. It has to be Unit-01 since that's the only one that's based off of Lilith instead of Adam. That is, Unit-01 has the fruit of knowledge. If it devours an S2 Engine, then it has both fruits, which I believe allow it to become the Tree of Sephirot at Third Impact (I forget why or how), which is the thing that sends out the anti-AT Fields.
So basically, he needs someone to pilot Unit-01 to get it to eat a fruit at some point. Did he think he could get Rei to do it, with Shinji to pilot it in the meantime until he got the dummy-plug system all sorted out? I think that's possible, now that you mention it. He was confounded later when Yui rejected the Dummy Plug system, though that may have been because he was being a dick to Shinji. Simply put, someone needs some level of synchronization with Unit-01 to get it to work. Though now that I'm thinking, what is synchronization anyway? The Rebuild series does away with it entirely, replacing it with plug-depth. But let's stick to anime-verse since we can treat the other like an alternate universe. I'm realizing in general that I will get way more out of the show when asking questions about it and analyzing things if I stop questioning whether something was an 'early installment weirdness' or what not and assume that everything mentioned and shown in the show is relevant. So synchronization. Is it with the soul within the Eva? Or with the Eva itself? Let's see, Kaworu in ep. 24 was able to adjust his sync levels at will, and he mentions that Unit-02 had closed off its soul and that he wouldn't have been able to pilot it if it hadn't closed itself off. Which means that he, as an incarnation of Adam, was probably adjusting his synchronization levels with the Eva itself, not the soul. Which makes sense, again, the soul had closed itself off. Which we could extrapolate that sync levels refer to the degree of synchronization with the Eva itself, with the dormant soul being the catalyst or medium which greatly boosts those amplitudes. Or not. Not amplitudes, now that I think about it. The graphics for synchronization always had two wave graphs overlapping each other, with the two waves becoming largely offset when sync levels were really low. So not amplitude, so really 'sync' levels oh I feel so stupid. Yeah, the two graphs sync with each other, hence sync levels. So the soul then mediates the two waves to more easily become one. Then again, with that it doesn't really make sense to have a sync level of any greater than 100%, which may precisely have been the reason why Rebuild decided to use plug depth instead. Well anyway I got way off track. Can Rei sync with Unit-01? It makes sense that shes wouldn't be able to adjust sync rates with Unit-00 since it's Adam-based, but she also wouldn't be able to with 01 since it has a non-closed off soul. Which means if the dormant soul, Yui, doesn't cooperate, then it's probably next to impossible. That guy Hyuga called it the O9 system, 0.0000000001% chance of success. I can't imagine that he would think Rei to be a reliable option. With Shinji, all he really needs to do is have him activate the Eva and then put him out there in danger and watch the Eva go berserk and win.
As for (2), this is where he really needs Rei. He was expecting her to side with him and fuse with him/Adam at Third Impact. Would it also make sense for her to be the primary pilot of Unit-01? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure he thought of a couple of ways for her to both be piloting shortly before Tree of Sephirot-ifying and also being in a position to fuse herself with Gendo. If he intended the Dummy Plug system to be piloting, then yeah it'll be a lot easier.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2015, 03:35:09 PM »
As with most of Eva's mysteries, this question basically boils down to two other questions: "How well-informed is Gendo's plan?" and "Which parts of his plan, if any, is he bullshitting or wrong about when we learn about them?". I've never known the answers to either of those, and I don't know that they're actually answerable, but I'll be extra careful to watch out for them this time.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2015, 06:29:28 PM »
I've done a group watch of Eva before with my friends. It was a two day event (I could only make the first one though because it was during my most terrible point in life) where we went through the entire series - anime, End, Rebuilds, and all the extras. I'd watched it all before but it's still fun to do with a bunch of friends making riffs at the thing while you watch the horror unfold.
A couple of my friends have an unhealthy obsession with Eva, like you, I assume, but when they aren't trying to debate the fine details (none of this happened at the party), we mostly make fun of it, because despite the legacy of Eva there's a lot to pick at and joke about.

I don't think I'd do it again for a long time, most of my friends agree with me on it as well, but some apparently do yearly watches because they're obsessed with it.


I remember the first time I watched The End. I brought it with me to my best friend's house, we decided when we started the movie to try and keep a running count of how many times the movie 'mind-screwed' us.

We lost count before the end of the movie.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 06:36:13 PM by NekoNekoRex »
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 04:44:46 AM »
Okay, week two and I haven't gotten lazy or forgotten to watch yet (except for a the beginning when I totally did)! Over the last week I showed that scene with Unit 01's reflection to three different people and all of them were amazed by it. Apparently I'm not the only one who was never able to figure out what was happening there before.

Episode 3-The Phone That Never Rings
Why does NERV even give the Evas guns? Isn't that just a waste of giant bullets? I can think of one time ever where it's actually useful, mostly it's just a waste of everyone's time and money. I suppose the first few times it's fair to try it and hope for the best, but it seems like there should be a cutoff point where they just scrap the guns, or at least stop using them as a first resort.

I love how fast Sachiel dies in the training simulation. If Unit 01 neutralized its AT field while Shinji was still cognizant enough to make it use a gun would it die that easily? And would it still explode? I assume this is just an ego booster for Shinji's fragile morale, but it's pretty funny. At this point in the episode we have no reason to assume that there are a bunch of different Angels or that there's only one of each Angel, so most people were probably expecting to just see a bunch more of that specific creature. Usually when that happens the monster suffers from Aliens Syndrome, so I guess Shinji effortlessly gunning down hordes of Sachiels was probably to be expected.

In the newscast in the background of the second scene we learn that there are no more seasons, just endless summer. I couldn't remember if this was ever explicitly stated or if it was just clear from context, but apparently we are directly told about it early on. I wonder what the point of that decision was? It colors the overall mood of the series, but it's never really plot-important. Was it just a mechanism to hide how much time is passing, or is there some kind of thematic or plot reason that I'm not recognizing?

Lol@phone technology. "I gave Shinji a cellular phone" indeed in 2015. The technology in Eva is weird. Some of it is surprisingly spot-on for a 1995 prediction of what technology would be like in 2015, much of it is quaintly retro in a way that works pretty well with the aesthetic. It sort of makes sense to me that a recovering post-apocalyptic world would have kind of austere appliances. Maybe that's just because the animation style is so of its era that the technology level just naturally fits it, but I don't think it mostly stands out too much.

The two manga that that two kids are reading in 5:07 is open to a page with what looks a lot like Pikachu. I assume this is just because all animal mascots look the same, but Pokemon technically existed in some form in 1995. Was it in the public eye to even a tiny degree when Eva was being animated? Maybe this is an incredibly prescient prediction that Pokemon would still be popular 20 years later (I'm sure it isn't).

I like that seemingly all of the public education that kids receive in Eva revolves around second impact in some way. It's pretty important to everyone's day to day life, obviously, but it seems pretty weird that the first random lesson we drop in one is just a basic summary of the public version of it. These kids probably already know this a hundred times over. This is obviously more for the audience's benefit, but I like the idea that the old teacher guy relates everything back to second impact in some way and it's all he can talk about, even when he teaches math and language and stuff.

Shamshel, like Sachiel, is pretty silly looking,. Are those eyes on its head supposed to be real, or are they just markings like on a buttefly's wings? If anything they make it look a lot less menacing, it goes from "inhumanly weird" to "kind of dopey". I guess it's good Shinji wins, because it would be pretty sad for humanity to be beaten by such a ridiculous monster.

I don't think it's entirely fair of Misato to be mad at Shinji for going nuts shooting at the first thing he sees after she's been teaching him that Angels vaporize the second bullets touch them.

I like the cartoon sound effect when Shinji grabs Shamshel by the tentacles and throws it.



Episode 4: Rain, Escape, And Afterwards
The way Toji keeps talking over Kensuke when they introduce themselves to Misato made me laugh out loud.

Going back to the theme of "in a post-second impact world all people can talk about is second impact, even 15 years later", the movie in the theater Shinji hides in is a cheesy disaster movie about second impact. Only this time it isn't just exposition to the audience. I mean, it still is exposition, but it's about the fact that that's what the movie is about, rather than being about the content of the movie.

Shinji wanders into an idyllic Japanese countryside, then a sunflower field. Misato and Gendo have forgotten about him already and he has crossed into Gensokyo. Surely he will be eaten by youkai within the hour.

I'm told that the mountain Shinji visits on his walk is most like a real place, a mountain called Owakudani that's famous for suicides.

"We have to use fourteen year olds to pilot the Evas" is one of the more mysterious lines in the series. There could be any number of explanations to that. Ritsuko could just be wrong of course, or it could have something to do with the mental state of people at that precise age, or there could be something different about people born after Second Impact that means only they can do it and fourteen year olds are just the most developed candidates available. The actual reason the pilots have to be who they are seems to just be related to the souls housed within the individual Evas, so my inclination is to assume that this line doesn't actually mean much, but I wonder if this means that all of the pilots will lose their ability to interface with the Evas as they grow older. Will their minds become closed off as their personas become more developed or something?
One of the theories that I hear thrown around a lot for this line is that after Second Impact all new humans are born without souls (often citing the "the Chamber of Guf was empty" stuff) and that somehow makes them able to interface with the Evas as well as explaining why Shinji, Rei, and Asuka are so fucked up, but I don't think that makes sense given the events of End Of Evangelion. And it raises weird implications that I don't think the show would just let go without directly addressing.

This episode is kind of interesting in how it fits into the show. Compared to previous episodes there's not actually a ton of new exposition, it seems to exist more to break what seems to be a developing "monster of the week" format than anything (and that format is ultimately, more or less, what defines the first big chunk of the show anyway). Nothing much has changed from the beginning of the episode to the end. Arguably Shinji resolves his hesitation about wanting to be a pilot, but that doesn't totally pan out in practice, or if it does it's not because of anything that happens in this episode. It basically reinforces things we already know about Shinji, which is important, but I'm not sure if they're necessary for the show to still be what it is. Could you cut this episode from the series entirely? I don't know. This is certainly one of the less necessary episodes, but the "hedgehog's dilemma" stuff needs to be fit in somewhere, and the character building may or may not be very important.

So this episode is slow, most of it probably doesn't actually need to be here, and there's nothing resembling action, but I do like it a lot. A lot of that has to do with Kensuke and how much I like him. In light of stuff we learn later and his potential candidacy as a pilot this could have been a much more important episode than it is, retroactively. But he never does get to be a pilot and just kind of gets swept under the rug, at least in this canon. I hear there are some spinoffs (video games or visual novels or something?) where he does become a pilot, I think of Unit 04? I haven't actually seen any of that stuff, but can anyone confirm or deny that? And if true, is it interesting? Seems like there could be a lot of material to work with regarding Kensuke, but Rebuild didn't really manage to fit him in.

A couple of my friends have an unhealthy obsession with Eva, like you, I assume...

Lol. :D

I don't think of myself as having an unhealthy obsession. I think it's pretty reasonable, tons of people have things they're really really into.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2015, 09:31:47 AM »
Nothing really plot significant in episodes 3 and 4 that I noticed.

Episode 03: The Phone That Doesn't Ring

The first instance of the Hedgehog's Dilemma being mentioned in the show. Misato says that becoming an adult is a repeating of meetings and partings until you learn to find the best distance between people that minimizes hurt in relations. The whole series seems to be one about people and distances.
I'm actually enjoying a rewatch since I don't remember any of these scenes.
Kensuke mentions the 'Robot Incident'. It seems the common people don't know much of what happened, because he says 'incident'. Or perhaps that the convenient label the media attached to it, because his classmates in general (particularly Toji's sister) seem to know that Shinji is piloting a robot to fight against some enemy. Toji calls the pilot of Unit-01 an idiot for being the one to cause a mess. Which seems to me to imply that this battle was reported on the media as some testing of the Evangelions by NERV, and it happened to go bad, causing a mess of things. Hence, an incident.

Toji's dad and grandfather both work in a lab of some sort. Probably significant, considering what happens later. And seeing as how that's the only close family he mentions when saying why he's had to stay by his sister for a whole 2 weeks in the hospital, it seems he doesn't have a mother either. Kensuke also mentions that he doesn't have a mother in the next episode.

Rei and Shinji's first conversation. Of sorts. Rei tells Shinji she'll be going to the front ahead.

Shamshel is a really lame angel to choose to sneak a peek at. I mean, it's one of the lamest angels there are. This and that spider one (Matariel?) are probably the lowest in my ranking, I don't even remember what its name was. Followed closely by Sandolphon, that lava one, and maaaybe the twin one.

Shinji monologues, why am I piloting if father isn't here? In the next episode, he tells Kensuke that he shouldn't want to pilot an Eva because it would worry his mother. Also in the next episode, Shinji's eyes are dead but come to life when he observes a couple making out. It seems he just wants to be loved, have some kind of mother and father figure in his life, and also friends or a special someone to simply accept and love him.

You can suspend an Eva's active state by having it continually, autonomously execute the last command it was given.

Mustn't run away mantra.

Toji gets Shinji's number and dials. End of Episode.




Episode 04: Rain, After Running Away

Ritsuko mentions that they must use 14 year olds to pilot the Evas. So she does know.

Gendo tells Ritsuko to reconfigure Unit-01 for Rei, despite problems with Unit-00. It seems that complications arise when trying to get Rei to pilot?

Toji tells Shinji to punch him. This whole scene and the scene after this at the train, I don't remember at all, but I really enjoyed it, I like it a lot. After so much of both Misato and Shinji not saying what they mean or want, they finally get a moment where they can simply be truthful and close through the pain, and it shines. It's a nice, glowing, warm moment. And then there's Toji. In a series full of deception and hiding your true feelings, there's this guy who's up front and wants to play fair. I rather like him, I didn't get that feeling at all in Rebuild, he's a really good friend. And they have a touching moment before Shinji has to leave, Toji tells him that no one can blame him for his choices, Shinji tells him that he's weak and flawed. It's just a sweet moment.

Unless this show has more minute long quiet staring moments, then it would just be this scene with Misato and Shinji staring at each other over across the train station and train tracks, and the scene in episode 24 with Shinji and Kaworu. There's something that I like about this long moment of pause. It's like they both know what they feel, and they both somewhat understand that the other is also feeling something close that they're not saying, but they both don't know how to proceed. So they settle for "I'm home" and "Welcome home", and it perfectly manages to convey what they're feeling without actually having to say it out loud. Not that they probably know how to put it to words, only to butcher it and pepper it with meaningless apologies that the other had already forgiven them for.

I don't think it's entirely fair of Misato to be mad at Shinji for going nuts shooting at the first thing he sees after she's been teaching him that Angels vaporize the second bullets touch them.
To be fair, she was criticizing his decision to keep shooting when it was creating a cover of smoke that would hide the enemy.

Also now that you explicitly mention it, I took it for granted that pilots had to be 14 years old, as it's the oldest age that any child that was born after Second Impact could be, but I either seem to have forgotten why it had to be kids born after Second Impact, or I've forgotten that I've never known. Weird. Guess we'll find out. I don't remember there being anything super significant about it, besides awakening Adam and the angels.

Kensuke doesn't interest me much. I like Toji a lot more since he's a good friend to Shinji. Kensuke to me is just that guy that wishes he could pilot an Eva.
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commandercool

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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2015, 04:32:39 AM »
Episode 05: Rei, Beyond Her Heart
So it occurs to me that Rei has done very, very nearly nothing so far. She's been in like five scenes, and has she even had any lines? If you asked me when Rei first becomes important-ish to the series I wouldn't have guessed it would be as late as episode five.

This is not technically the first time we've seen Unit 00, but it's the best look we've gotten at it so far. For being the widely accepted lamest Eva, Unit 00 still looks really cool. The robot designs in this show are so great. Even the least among them are some of the coolest-looking robots ever.

I guess I forgot that it makes a similar roaring/screaming noise to Unit 01 in the berserk scene. Does it have a mouth under that helmet? I guess it would have to, wouldn't it?

Man, fuck Gendo and how much of a badass he is. Just standing there while Unit 00 punches at him.

The opening scene is incredibly well-done on seeing it again. The animation is excellent, and the way Gendo comes off as a completely different person once shit goes down really stands out. He has expressions other than "disapproval" and "seemingly not paying attention" for once. It's interesting how little of that side of him we see, but given that Shinji is the semi-POV character it makes sense, and the few times we go get to see it it's a big deal. Rei still gets to do absolutely nothing whatsoever, but everything going on around her is great.

Shinji in the scene with Ritsuko explaining the link between Angels and humans to Misato made me laugh. He clearly has no idea what anybody's talking about and it getting distracted easily, and again the animation is excellent. Eva's animation quality varies wildly, but this episode is the first time it's really stood out to me as exceptional.

I wonder whose idea it was to have Rei live in a desolate apartment block in the middle of nowhere? I'm surprised she doesn't live with Gendo. Obviously he would prefer that and she probably would too. Is he worried that that would just be too weird? And for that matter, what does she do all day? We see her reading sometimes, so does she just read in the dark? What books does she read?

Rei's entry plug console has "Evangelion 2014 00 Prototype" engraved on it. I never noticed that. Guess that's when Unit 00 was built, not that I was particularly wondering.

Fuyutsuki: "Unidentified object approaching. It may be the fifth Angel". May indeed. Or it might be a standard, non-Angel giant flying blue octahedron.

Following the general shittiness of Shamshel, Ramiel is one of the cooler Angels. Certainly one of the most iconic. It's one of those that suffers a little bit from comparison to the Rebuild redesign (some people have said that Rebuild Ramiel is overdesigned, but I think it's just right), but it's still cool and appropriately weird. Ramiel is apparently a reference to a robot from a 1983 anime called Future Police Urashiman, and that robot actually had the shapeshifting power that Rebuild Ramiel has that TV Ramiel does not, which is kind of interesting.


Episode 06: Showdown In Tokyo-3
This episode famously has several animation errors that people like to point to as indications of the budget problems the show went through. The first is in the scene were Ramiel is blasting Unit 01 with its laser on the launchpad, and the laser seems to be coming from the building that it's shooting through rather than from Ramiel itself. The second is Ramiel's drill, which is spinning in the wrong direction for the way it's threaded. Upon review though, I think both of these are very minor complaints if they're complaints at all. The laser shooting through the skyscraper looks pretty natural to me the way the shot is set up, and that shot only lasts for a moment. I wouldn't have even noticed it if it hadn't been pointed out to me before. The drill thing is technically true, but the tip of the drill is made of lasers and the threading doesn't look like it necessarily even does anything, so I don't think the direction it spins probably matters very much.

I think this is one of the best episodes in the series, if not maybe the single best standalone episode. Maybe I'll take that back when we get to some of the standout later episodes, but there aren't many that have the narrative drive that this one does. The plot is extremely compelling. I love "We have a weird problem, let's do some experiments to figure out what's going on and then make some kind of crazy plan to solve it" stories (which is one of the reasons I liked Aldnoah.Zero so much, that whole show is just a string of those). It's almost unfortunate that this episodes takes place when it does in the series, because I think the episodes immediately following it are some of the weakest ones in the series anyway and they look quite a lot worse by comparison. This plot line is also one of the reasons I like Rebuild 1.0 so much. It has such a natural conclusion with this fight that it totally works as a standalone movie.

Eva armor is tough as shit if a sustained blast from a laser that can melt mountains didn't even pierce all the way through it. Is it made of something special? I guess NERV does have access to some Angel/progenitor technology in the Lance Of Longinus and possibly Lilith's ship, so maybe they reverse-engineered something from those or salvaged materials from them that they used to make the armor or something.

The name "Operation Yashima" is a reference to the medieval Battle Of Yashima, which featured a legendary archery contest.

Rei is pretty low on my list of favorite characters, but it is really sweet when she smiles at the end.

It seems that complications arise when trying to get Rei to pilot?

Well yeah, inevitably I think. Unlike Shinji, Asuka, and Toji she doesn't have a person who cares about her who can be used as the soul for her Eva. She probably has the same ability that Kaworu does to forcibly commandeer any Eva if she has to, but I think he says something in the scene where he's controlling Unit 02 about how he wouldn't be able to do it ordinarily and only can in that case for some extraordinary reason that I can't remember. Unit 01 might accept her because she's still technically kind of related to it, but it also might freak out because of what she represents. We never really find out, but I think there's a lot of inherent risk.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 04:36:35 AM by commandercool »
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2015, 09:19:33 AM »
Ep 05: Rei, Beyond the Heart

It just occured to me that Kaworu's in the intro

This scene with Gendo showing great concern over Rei to be a little odd, considering his treatment and referring to her as a spare back in ep. 01.

I wonder how nerves connect from the pilot to the Eva. There are no cords from the plug suit to the entry plug, and the entry plug doesn't seem to physically connect directly into the Eva either.

It took me by surprise, how lackadaisical and friendly a gesture inviting Ritsuko over for dinner together was. The scene feels warm. Since Misato and Ritsuko grow apart later, it's somewhat happy but sad seeing them together as friends early on here it is.
She mentions that Rei is like Shinji's dad, clumsy at living

REI I

It's rather creepy how you can plainly tell that Rei is messy and doesn't bother much with cleaning, what with simply tossing her clothes off to the side, but even then her room is hopelessly desolate. It really emphasizes that she literally has nothing. Another creepy thing is that although she seems to be very attached to Gendo's glasses, holding them with affection, they're simply tossed onto her dresser, and upside down at that. Like she didn't even bother to place it nicely on top. Strikes me as a bit alien almost. or like Ritsuko said, clumsy/awkward.
It's followed up by a twist on that stupid classical MC meets naked heroine trope. She really doesn't seem to regard her own self at all. In a way, she's similar to Kaworu in not really understanding personal space. Kaworu goes to hold Shinji's hand in the bath, and here Rei doesn't seem to understand her own sense of personal space. Or that people expect others to have personal space or a little privacy over their bodies. I wonder if that scene in EoE is a call back to this scene. Except there, Rei is on top of Shinji. Maybe it means something. Here, Shinji is really curious about Rei, but by EoE, Rei is really curious about Shinji.

Rei seems a little mad at Shinji? Seems to take the ID keycard from him a bit forcefully.

"Re"-activation test? Did something happen to shut it off for awhile?

This might be at least the first blatant break from the classical monster of the week show, since Ramiel appears a week early.


Ep. 06, Decisive Battle in Tokyo-03

Unlike Rebuild, Misato was able to lower Unit-01 back down the elevator shaft. Also, Maya mentions that 3 more seconds and Shinji was a goner. Which makes the Rebuild scene seem funny since he was under fire for like a whole minute.

The 1/1 scale Unit-01 dummy balloon made me laugh. Like you said, this part where Misato sends in random stuff to see how Ramiel would react was rather interesting. In Rebuild, Ramiel's self defense system was revealed off hand through the briefing, but here they show the process, which is nice.
Also Ramiel's AT Field here is a blue hexagon, odd. And not shiny or pulsating with light either, just a solid blue. Does it have something to do with the fact that Ramiel's AT Field is strong enough to visibly warp light? Maybe a physicist might have the answer. Since the strongest AT Fields completely block out particles, and electromagnetic waves, and no AT Field would let everything pass through.... A moderately strong AT Field like Ramiel's would be somewhere in between......??? I don't know. Something about how the sky is blue?

Nerv's positron rifle is reminds me of Armored Core's Karasawa mk II

Interesting is that Shinji doesn't get a cheer up or motivation to pilot the Eva again. Rebuild has him listening to that voice message left by Toji and Kensuke. Here he sees Rei willing to pilot it, which convinces him to do it instead.

Rei answers that the Eva is her connection to everyone when asked by Shinji why she pilots it. Which makes it seem like she's also just a human being who wants connections and friends. And again, like Ritsuko said, she may be awkward at living. Wanting connections but not knowing how to make more. Or being satisfied with the little she has, not knowing what more there could be.

In the TV series Ramiel detects the immense build up of energy on the mountain and fires and starts to charge up, making it in time to shoot at Unit-01 right when it fires. I've seen praise in quite a few places about how the beams behave like they probably would in real life, warping each others' paths as the magnetic fields collide. It's certainly cool and very science fiction-y to see.

The last scene has Rei smiling when Shinji says she should smile. The part I don't remember is that she sees a flash of Gendo's smiling face when he says that, which is what seems to prompt her to smile as well. I think it's an important tidbit to include that I dont' remember Rebuild including. Her connection to Shinji starts off little by little. Here, it starts by her seeing a resemblance to Gendo in Shinji's smile. And thus, seeing Gendo's caring side in Shinji.

Overall, these two episodes were pretty great. They introduce Rei in a rather unconventional way as one of the female main characters of the show.  Which may make a rather sort of sense. I read somewhere that the creator was wanting to give her a sort of uncanny valley vibe. I'm not sensing it at all, but that may very well be because of how much of a character trope her general personality has become. Here, it's not treated as a trope, but as an introduction of something that was new at a time. Rei is mysterious, quiet, and hard to understand. Alien-like almost, I can't imagine any normal human being that would behave like she would, and we see Shinji struggling to connect with her. Perhaps out of a mix of jealousy and curiousity, since she brings out a smile out of Gendo when he only shows coldness to Shinji.

One last thing I remember is Ritsuko saying that the Unit-00 going berserk may have had primarily to do with Rei's mind becoming contaminated or defiled. A little unstable. I wonder what that was about. About her starting to develop emotions or something?
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2015, 02:17:48 AM »
I skipped a week, that was bad. But I wasn't near my computer Sunday night and those episodes are probably the worst in the series, so... I'll be get them for sure next week.

This scene with Gendo showing great concern over Rei to be a little odd, considering his treatment and referring to her as a spare back in ep. 01.

Yeah, that is weird. I would say he's putting on airs of not caring about her so that people don't get suspicious of him or whatever, but there are obviously times when he overtly doesn't do that.

I wonder how nerves connect from the pilot to the Eva. There are no cords from the plug suit to the entry plug, and the entry plug doesn't seem to physically connect directly into the Eva either.

LCL, presumably. Maybe inside of the Eva as well as inside of the plug.

It's followed up by a twist on that stupid classical MC meets naked heroine trope. She really doesn't seem to regard her own self at all. In a way, she's similar to Kaworu in not really understanding personal space. Kaworu goes to hold Shinji's hand in the bath, and here Rei doesn't seem to understand her own sense of personal space. Or that people expect others to have personal space or a little privacy over their bodies. I wonder if that scene in EoE is a call back to this scene. Except there, Rei is on top of Shinji. Maybe it means something. Here, Shinji is really curious about Rei, but by EoE, Rei is really curious about Shinji.

It's always been my groundless assumption that Kaworu's childhood was similar to Rei's, but with the Seele dudes instead of Gendo. I guess it makes sense that they have similar dysfunctions.

Also Ramiel's AT Field here is a blue hexagon, odd. And not shiny or pulsating with light either, just a solid blue. Does it have something to do with the fact that Ramiel's AT Field is strong enough to visibly warp light? Maybe a physicist might have the answer. Since the strongest AT Fields completely block out particles, and electromagnetic waves, and no AT Field would let everything pass through.... A moderately strong AT Field like Ramiel's would be somewhere in between......??? I don't know. Something about how the sky is blue?

Huh, I never noticed that. Neat.

One last thing I remember is Ritsuko saying that the Unit-00 going berserk may have had primarily to do with Rei's mind becoming contaminated or defiled. A little unstable. I wonder what that was about. About her starting to develop emotions or something?

Or maybe to do with her being imperfectly constructed. Her body is obviously always on the verge of falling apart because the technology that made her doesn't seem to be great, so I guess it makes sense that her mind is too. I've always assumed that Ritsuko wasn't necessarily right and that Unit 00 went berserk because it was jealous of Rei's relationship with Gendo, but I guess those two things could be linked if "starting to feel human emotions toward another person (Gendo)" can be equated to "contaminated". Maybe Gendo knows that's a risk and that's why sometimes he treats Rei badly and why he doesn't let her live with him, but sometimes he can't help himself and is friendly with her anyway against his better judgment. Maybe.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2015, 08:51:44 AM »
I've always assumed that Ritsuko wasn't necessarily right and that Unit 00 went berserk because it was jealous of Rei's relationship with Gendo, but I guess those two things could be linked if "starting to feel human emotions toward another person (Gendo)" can be equated to "contaminated". Maybe Gendo knows that's a risk and that's why sometimes he treats Rei badly and why he doesn't let her live with him, but sometimes he can't help himself and is friendly with her anyway against his better judgment. Maybe.
Rei represents Yui to Gendo right? Somewhat, like I think she's based off of her physical dna or something? And that's a neat angle to consider for the berserk thing, hadn't considered it.

Since I skipped a week, I'll have to be posting this one quite a bit soon after that last one. I assume you meant today, this Sunday, when you said 'next week'?

Ep: 07 That Created by Humans
I noticed that there's an image of the Tree of Sephirot on the ceiling of Gendo's room place.
Couldn't really make out the small print, but some looking up of words showed that the document is titled:
使徒と呼称される物体及び人類補完計画(仮称)に関する第1次中間報告書
First progress report concerning the beings designated "Angels" and the Human Instrumentality Project (temporary name)

The anime 'puhaaaaa' thing when people drink sake in anime is a little annoying, I'm finding recently. Irks me just that little bit.
I'm going to remember when this cheerful everyday music plays in each episode so I can figure out when it plays last and the series starts going downhill.

Misato says "that's ironic." What's ironic? That Shinji is being colder to Misato now that he's opening up to his emotions more? Or maybe that now that Misato is treating him like family, he's starting to find her embarrassing.
She has guards watching over him? Helicopter mom lol.
Ramiel is being deconstructed, just like the mecha genre is at the hands of this anime.

US opposes the Unit-06 construction budget, and Unit-08 is in some other country, the country of this fellow drinking Nikka Whisky here. I googled it and apparently its a real brand in Japan. What do you know.

Second Impact is finally explained.

The question and answer session between Ritsuko and the guy is pretty funny I find. Both bring up excellent points, but in the end sounds just like spite from the side of the robot creators. Now that I think about it, this thing uses a nuclear reactor. Which is odd, since the technology to create N2 explosives exists. Since an explosion is essentially a release of energy and N2 explosions are much more powerful than nuclear weaponry in the Eva-verse, it would seem more reasonable to create a reactor/power source out of whatever powers the N2 explosives. Or maybe its not self sustaining or viable as a prolonged energy source. The Jet Alone people seem to think that the Eva's biggest problem is the short operation time, which is why they seemed so proud of the JA's 150 day operational time. The AT Fields are obviously the biggest problem. And even though the guy seemed confident that they would eventually find a way around dealing with the Angel's AT Fields, the JA itself not having an AT Field is severely detrimental. Unit-01 just barely managed to survive Ramiel's attack and it had an AT Field. Clearly the biggest flaw, in both directions. Not to mention, autonomous robots are very unreliable. We can't even create robots that can reliably and autonomously navigate through and assist people in disaster-ridden terrain, how can we expect to leave the fate of humankind to robots expected to fight aliens of utterly incomparable and unprecedented design? Ridiculous.
The Jet Alone itself, though, probably doesn't look terrible except that it suffers the fate of having to share its screentime in the same show as the Evangelion units. I wonder if the control rods sticking out of the back is where the idea for BEASTO MODO came from. Even the HUD and graphs back in the command control look lamer compared to the epilepsy-inducing visuals at NERV headquarters.

I forgot that the Module-F(?) jetplanes used to transport Evas was in the TV series.

A book ends episode. At the beginning of the episode, Misato accidentally offhandedly mentions that going to Shinji's parent teacher conference is part of her job. To which Shinji reacts with a little disappointment. At the end of the episode, Toji and Kensuke tell Shinji that she shows this side of her to him because she considers him family.

You said that these episodes were some of the lamest in the series, but I rather liked them. This one too. And also when I first saw it. It was neat to see NERV just being cool and one-upping this lousy competitor.



Ep: 08 Asuka Arrives

Just realized that the oceans are blue in the TV series.

Asuka's first appearance! I have trouble deciding my favorite Eva character. Aside from Kaworu, since I think he's my favorite based on my last watch years ago. Might change this time around. I'm already re-liking Asuka, she's got a lot of problems and a lot of personality and character. My first time watching I liked Rei more because in general I like the trope she's spawned off, but my views may have changed with age. It's kinda sad to like a character because of their archetype anyway. I guess you could say Asuka if anything aligns with the tsundere archetype, though a bit insulting to put it that way.

Kaji is playing footsie with Misato and it's cracking me up. Him dropping the bombshell was also hilarious. Everyone's like WTF?

Asuka's had a lot of training, apparently, but hasn't fought any real angels yet. Come to think of it, every angel past the 2nd (so Sachiel on) was defeated by Shinji or Shinji/Rei. Kanji says that Shinji had a >40% synchro rate on his first activation without any training. Probably the start of her inferiority complex and rivalry. She also made a big deal of pointing out that what she was piloting was a 'real' Evangelion, and not one of those Prototype or Test-type play toys.

For a while I was confused about why Gaghiel was here, since I thought Angels only cared to go after Adam. And then I remembered a few minutes later. With that stored away though, why do the other countries need Evangelions anyway? It's not as though the Angels will go attack and even if they don't know that they wont be fighting any Angels, they would think something fishy was up since all the Angels so far have only been invading Tokyo-3.

Shinji has to dress up in Unit-02's red plug suit. He's hiding his crotch area though, I wonder if he's like trying to hide a certain something because the suit is skin tight. Also I really want that Unit-02 red duffle bag Asuka was carrying.

The music playing during Unit-02's activation/launch is the same as the one they play in Rebuild 2.22, nice. So this is where they got it from. And I have to say Unit-02 with a cape looks badass.

If they're fighting over some sunken Pacific island, I guess it would make sense that the sea bottom isn't too deep. If all the ice from the polar caps melted, it couldn't be too many dozens of meters worth of water to wash over the highest peaks of islands.

Can't decide if Unit-01 or 02 looks cooler. Also this is probably the first close shot of the cockpit's controller thing. I wonder the point of the latch is.

And I really enjoy these friendly chat scenes between Misato and Ritsuko. The episode ends with Fly Me to the Moon Asuka ver?

Gaghiel is one of the lamer Angels on the list, design-wise. But the fight was pretty cool, what with Asuka hopping around on ships and ending with a mouthful of battleships to the throat kaboom. Animation this episode was really nice too.
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Re: Is anyone interested in doing a Neon Genesis Evangelion group watch?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2015, 07:14:37 PM »
Rei represents Yui to Gendo right? Somewhat, like I think she's based off of her physical dna or something? And that's a neat angle to consider for the berserk thing, hadn't considered it.

It is my understanding that Rei is an imperfect attempt to clone Yui, yes. The idea that Gendo sees her as Yui is interesting. I've always thought of it as him seeing Rei as his daughter, but it's entirely possible that he doesn't make that distinction.

Since I skipped a week, I'll have to be posting this one quite a bit soon after that last one. I assume you meant today, this Sunday, when you said 'next week'?

Yes, I'm planning on doing episodes 7 and 8 tonight.

You said that these episodes were some of the lamest in the series, but I rather liked them.

Fair enough. I've always thought of these as the worst two episodes in the series and remember them as being a low point whenever I watch it, but it's entirely possible that that isn't the fault of the episodes themselves. I'll go into them as unbiased as I can this time and see what I think of them. I remember episode 7 being the most unnecessary one in the series, but given how ultimately pointless episode 4 is and how monster-of-the-week a few of the latter episodes are, maybe that's unfair. And these episodes do introduce two of my favorite (possibly my top two) characters in Asuka and Kaji. It'll be interesting to revisit them and see what I think this time.
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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2015, 06:15:13 AM »
I finally noticed a way to change the thread title. I've been meaning to do that forever but I just never figured it out.

Episode 07: A Human Creation
As I've already made clear, my assertion has been that this is the least necessary episode in the series. In my opinion it doesn't add almost anything to the plot and is kind of a waste of time. But is that just fallout from the fact that it has to follow up arguably the best episode? Maybe.

I guess I forgot that this episode, not the next one, is the first appearance of Kaji. Or first cameo appearance, as we say in the comic book market.

Misato with bed hair is cute. I don't have much more to say about that, but it's true.

The gradual teardown of Ramiel's body is a cool detail, and one that's interestingly subverted/lost in Rebuild. As fond as I am of the whole blood rain/rainbow thing, it's a shame to miss out on this part of it. Especially when it's technically sort of plot-relevant, since it's partially responsible for the S2 Engine.

"Keeping the Earth safe" is a pretty dramatic way of describing Shinji's job, but it is ultimately accurate (at least as far as he knows). Sounds a lot more like sci-fi stock standard giant robot fare than Eva usually does, but it's undeniably true, even if I don't usually think of it that way.

"Disposing of the dead Angels costs a bundle" made me think of X-Com. Maybe NERV should create a gray market for Angel body parts to help finance their operations. Unless they have a plan for them, which it's never clear if they do. And holy shit do I ever want someone to make a doujin X-Com/Eva game now.

The line "They used to think there were no more Angels" regarding 'the Comittee' (does that refer to Seele?) is interesting. Does that imply that people knew that there were Angels at some point but that they went away for a while? This goes back to my incomplete understanding of what different factions and the public do and don't know about Second Impact. In the next scene Misato seems to imply that all information about the Angels has been concealed from the public, but I wonder how far that goes.

All of the conference stuff is pretty great. It shows an aspect of the world that we don't get very many windows into, which is great.

I forgot just how ridiculous Jet Alone looks. It's supposed to, obviously, but my memory of it wasn't quite so lanky. It looks ridiculous, the way it moves is ridiculous, I can only assume that the way it fights would be ridiculous if it ever got the chance. Given that that was probably the point of the design, it's very successful.

I wonder how much time the action scene takes place over. Even if NERV had Shinji and Unit 01 on standby, which my guess is they probably didn't (they were the ones who caused this problem, but I'm guessing they were planning on letting Jet Alone melt down and kill a bunch of people as a means of proving their point, and it was only Misato's intervention that stopped that from happening*) it would still take quite a while to physically get them there, wouldn't it? How far is Tokyo-3 from Old Tokyo? My assumption then would be that Jet Alone's rampage actually went on for quite a while, especially given the scene where the director guy is making all those phone calls.

*It's unclear whether they intended for Jet Alone to fizzle out right before exploding from the start or whether they intended for it to explode but called it off because they didn't want to kill Misato. It could very well be either, but I'm inclined to think it's the latter because it would look much more suspicious to have it go berserk but not explode without outside intervention. Ritsuko's dialogue to Gendo seems to indicate the former, but she might have been talking about the ultimate results rather than the way they were executed when she said that everything went according to plan.

Shinji's expression at 21:07 made me laugh out loud, then again at 21:16. I can't say that I would be able to handle Misato's shenanigans any more gracefully than he does, but it's pretty funny.

So what's my ultimate impression of this episode? Is it unnecessary? Yes and no. It doesn't really add a ton to the plot aside from giving us a little bit of exposition about Second Impact and establishing that NERV is ruthless, but neither one of those things were exclusive to this episode. It gives a lot of worldbuilding though, which is very valuable since so much of the series focuses on a relatively small area with a relatively small cast of characters. Is it among the worst episodes? Maybe, but if so it's only in the sense that it's the least of a fantastic series, which still leaves it head and shoulders above most things that have ever been televised. There's a lot to like in this episode, it moves nicely and it has some great scenes. I can certainly say that I enjoyed it more than episode 4, and it's gone up in my estimation quite a lot after this viewing. Not one of my favorites by a long shot, suffers a little from having to follow up arguably the best episode in the series, but totally good and worth watching.

The last major question that I have about this episode is regarding why Gendo bothered to sabotage this project in the first place. The easy answer seems to be that he was worried about it diverting interest and funds from NERV, but in this episode we learn that he isn't having trouble getting the Committee to increase his budget. It seems like the easy thing to do would have been to let Jet Alone try to fight an Angel. Best case scenario it gets completely destroyed and he can swoop in, save the day, and look great doing it. Worst case scenario it actually wins and he doesn't have to worry about repair or cleanup costs, although at that point his budget might actually be in danger in the long run. So it sounds to me like he actually thought it stood a chance if he was threatened enough by it to destroy it. That's interesting.

Episode 08-Asuka Arrives in Japan
Once again, I've mentioned before that I don't really remember liking this episode that much. I like Asuka just fine, she's one of my favorite characters, but my memory of this episode is that it and the fight scene that makes up much of it are on the pedestrian side. But I take back many of the negative things I've said about episode 7, so how will this one fare?

Seems pretty bold of Toji to pull down his pants and his boxers when flashing Asuka, given that he just got an eyeful of her panties. I guess if he was going to get slapped that many times he might as well deserve it.

Misato's expression on her NERV ID card is pretty funny. She looks like she's trying to look cool and almost pulling it off, but not quite.

Is Asuka taller than Shinji? She looks like she is in a couple of the shots in this episode where they're standing close together. That's entirely possible, I never really noticed if either of them was especially short or tall.

Maaaan, Kaji is so cool. All things considered he may be my favorite character. It's kind of a tossup between him, Ritsuko, and Asuka. But I might prefer him by just a little.

Asuka's German sounds off to me. Does anyone know if her voice actress is handling the German well or not? She seems like she's speaking too slowly for someone who's actually fluent, but I don't speak German so I have no idea if it's supposed to sound like that. The few times it comes up though I think it sounds odd.

Is this the Angel battle with the most fatalities? I know we never really get a good impression of if anyone is dying in the collateral damage in any of the fights, but a lot of ships get sunk in this episode.

Gaghiel is definitely another one of the lamer Angels. Not the very worst, but it doesn't feel very inspired either. They could have done some interesting stuff with an aquatic Angel and making it some kind of sea serpent or cephalopod or crazy deep-sea fish or something, but all we got was this fairly mundane whale-looking thing. This is the first time I ever noticed the Sachiel mask on its head though.

The sunken city is super cool-looking. It doesn't come into play as much more than set dressing, but it's a great detail.

Shinji's response of "That's because it's an Angel" to Asuka's surprise at seeing Gaghiel open its mouth is pretty dumb. None of the Angels so far have even had mouths that we could identify. Get it together, Shinji. That's some weak banter.

Unlike the previous episode which I liked a lot more than I was expecting to, I still don't really care all that much for this one. It's fairly plot-important since it introduces a few new characters and major concepts (like that weird Adam briefcase), but the worldbuilding is much smaller-scale and I think the fight scene is fairly weak. I appreciate a convoluted plan, but the solution to this fight doesn't seem plausible enough for me to really buy it. Combine that with the slightly disappointing Angel that doesn't get to do very much, and I'm still not that big a fan of this episode. I can't point to a specific part where it really drags, but it also doesn't feel like it's moving along very smoothly. It's not awful, but it's not particularly good either. Probably my least favorite episode so far.

For a while I was confused about why Gaghiel was here, since I thought Angels only cared to go after Adam. And then I remembered a few minutes later.

Same here.

With that stored away though, why do the other countries need Evangelions anyway? It's not as though the Angels will go attack and even if they don't know that they wont be fighting any Angels, they would think something fishy was up since all the Angels so far have only been invading Tokyo-3.

That's a fair point. Misato's best guess as to why they were attacked was that the Angel was after Unit 02, which I suppose assumes that the Angels are intelligent enough to actively try to take out an Eva while it's in a compromised position. I guess it makes sense that everyone else around the world also might be assuming that Tokyo-3 is being targeted specifically because the Angels are trying to destroy the one place that has weapons that can fight them, but that seems like a stretch. It may be the case that other countries are suspicious that something weird is going on. That probably made it easier in EoE for Seele to convince the UN to destroy NERV, clearly they look like they're up to something. And, to be fair, they are.

Animation this episode was really nice too.

Parts of it were, certainly, especially with Unit 02 landing on that aircraft carrier and all of the planes sliding off the deck. But overall I thought it was a little lacking. The whole scenario with the sinking battleships landing in Gaghiels' mouth is fundamentally ridiculous, but excellent animation might have helped make it a little more believable, and I don't think the animation team really succeeded in doing that. It's not the animation's fault that it couldn't make something completely crazy look right, but I wish it had managed somehow.
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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2015, 08:50:23 AM »
As I've already made clear, my assertion has been that this is the least necessary episode in the series. In my opinion it doesn't add almost anything to the plot and is kind of a waste of time. But is that just fallout from the fact that it has to follow up arguably the best episode? Maybe.
Least necessary? Yeah, probably. That's fair. Worst episode? Not sure, arguably, those would probably go to episodes 23 and 24.

Quote
The gradual teardown of Ramiel's body is a cool detail, and one that's interestingly subverted/lost in Rebuild. As fond as I am of the whole blood rain/rainbow thing, it's a shame to miss out on this part of it. Especially when it's technically sort of plot-relevant, since it's partially responsible for the S2 Engine.
Oh was it? For the MP Evas? Did they have S2 Engines as well?


Quote
The line "They used to think there were no more Angels" regarding 'the Comittee' (does that refer to Seele?) is interesting. Does that imply that people knew that there were Angels at some point but that they went away for a while? This goes back to my incomplete understanding of what different factions and the public do and don't know about Second Impact. In the next scene Misato seems to imply that all information about the Angels has been concealed from the public, but I wonder how far that goes.
Yeah I was wondering who the Committee was. I don't think it's Seele because I think Gendo refers to them as 'those old men'. Consistently? I forget. Nerv can't only be financially supported by Seele, and they must have existed in the main political realm since they were first founded. They have higher authority in dealing with emergency situations (concerning Angels) than the UN forces. Since Nerv was founded to deal with Angels, that would mean that whoever was in the know would know the Angels. 'In the know' must be the committee members, and perhaps other higher-ups. So it would be odd that they would think that there would be no more Angels since dealing with them is precisely why Nerv was founded to begin with anyway. It may be that after Seele revealed the true reasons behind 2nd Impact with the (not Secret) Dead Sea Scrolls, they were able to convince the world governments to found Nerv to deal with the future threat. So it may be that the Committee was losing trust in the Dead Sea Scrolls since 15 years had passed with no Angels showing up to wreck stuff.

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*It's unclear whether they intended for Jet Alone to fizzle out right before exploding from the start or whether they intended for it to explode but called it off because they didn't want to kill Misato. It could very well be either, but I'm inclined to think it's the latter because it would look much more suspicious to have it go berserk but not explode without outside intervention. Ritsuko's dialogue to Gendo seems to indicate the former, but she might have been talking about the ultimate results rather than the way they were executed when she said that everything went according to plan.
Seemed like only Gendo, Ritsuko, and Kaji were the ones involved with the sabotoge. Since Misato said that the miracle was premeditated, I assumed that the plan was to have the nuclear reactor run until it was on the very verge of a meltdown, then abort it at the last minute.

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The last major question that I have about this episode is regarding why Gendo bothered to sabotage this project in the first place. The easy answer seems to be that he was worried about it diverting interest and funds from NERV, but in this episode we learn that he isn't having trouble getting the Committee to increase his budget. It seems like the easy thing to do would have been to let Jet Alone try to fight an Angel. Best case scenario it gets completely destroyed and he can swoop in, save the day, and look great doing it. Worst case scenario it actually wins and he doesn't have to worry about repair or cleanup costs, although at that point his budget might actually be in danger in the long run. So it sounds to me like he actually thought it stood a chance if he was threatened enough by it to destroy it. That's interesting.
Since the JA was not even prepared to deal with AT Fields, it seemed to be very far from actually being to be used on the battlefield. Maybe Gendo's plan was to remove even a single factor that could possibly divert funds to another project. This looked like it was JA's first public showcasing of its functionality. If this was a success, the Committee may have been interested in testing the possibilities of a weapon that on paper would be more reliable. Pruning the tree so as not to divide the nutrients, you could say. Get it out of the way as early in development as possible, while it's easier to introduce errors without raising suspicions of sabotage, before it actually could be more tempting for the Committee to fund.

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Asuka's German sounds off to me. Does anyone know if her voice actress is handling the German well or not? She seems like she's speaking too slowly for someone who's actually fluent, but I don't speak German so I have no idea if it's supposed to sound like that. The few times it comes up though I think it sounds odd.
Lookie what I found. Compare it to the very beginning of the video if you weren't confident. I had no doubt that her German was terrible in the sub. It can't be helped, pretty sure there's a very limited supply of bilingual VAs in Japanese and German. Reminds me a bit of that scene in Hellsing with Rip van Winkle singing Der Freisch?tz, also in German, except that was more easily passable because pronunciation is more ignorable when you're singing.

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Is this the Angel battle with the most fatalities? I know we never really get a good impression of if anyone is dying in the collateral damage in any of the fights, but a lot of ships get sunk in this episode.
I wonder how many Zeruel killed? I forget if they were able to get the people evacuated in time.


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Shinji's response of "That's because it's an Angel" to Asuka's surprise at seeing Gaghiel open its mouth is pretty dumb. None of the Angels so far have even had mouths that we could identify. Get it together, Shinji. That's some weak banter.
Oh right, that completely slipped my mind. I guess none of the angels so far had mouths. Unless it was about how Angels show unexpected features. Still kind of weak, like the writers were trying to play up his 'veteran' angle.
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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2015, 02:17:12 AM »
This brings us solidly into the "monster of the week" part of the show, which I'm looking forward to. I have positive associations with most of these episodes, with one exception (and it's one of this week's episodes, so I don't have to wait to find out if I was being unfair toward it or not).

Episode 09: Both Of You, Dance Like You Want To Win!

Rei appears to be reading some sort of technical manual. That makes sense I guess. She's always seen reading but it doesn't seem to fit her character that she would read anything, you know, interesting. Does the stuff she learns from those books ever come up? I can't explicitly remember, but I feel like it probably does at some point. I don't have the engineering knowledge to know what subject the book is on, if it is actually identifiable from the diagrams we can see.

Man, I love the Kaji/Misato/Ritsuko dynamic so much. I would watch a show about the three of them in college in a second. Or just an alternate universe thing where they live in the same apartment complex or something. I don't care, I want to see more of them just goofing around. And yet when the manga tried to flesh out Kaji's backstory I was bored to tears by it, so maybe I don't actually want that. Or maybe the manga just sucks.

Unit 02's spear is cool. I wonder if there's a Revoltech-scale version of that weapon? I have most of the major weapons and a few inexplicable ones that I can't remember ever actually appearing in an episode, but I don't have that one.

Israfel is a straightforward monster. The design is simple, being basically just a shuffled Sachiel. It has a cool power but is also pretty weak compared to a lot of the other Angels. Nothing incredibly special or memorable, but far from being one of the worst Angels. Great monster of the week fodder.

I wonder if Israfel can keep splitting into more parts if it keeps getting attacked, or if two is the limit. The design of it kind of implies a duality, but we never get to see it do much so it's not clear.

The scene with the summary of the battle is really funny. It's also slightly interesting that we haven't seen Gendo at all yet this episode. Fuyutsuki has done everything by himself so far. I assume Gendo is busy doing whatever it is that one does with Adam right now and can't be bothered.

Ritsuko lampshades this in the next scene. "If he'd been here, you'd be fired before he ever saw these". For some reason I doubt that. I think it would take a lot for Gendo to fire Misato. I don't know if that's because I think he's a good judge of character or if it's because he knows the right buttons to push to manipulate Misato into doing whatever he wants, but I think she's valuable to him. Maybe that's not true, but I have that impression.

I forgot that this insane plot was Kaji's idea. Usually ridiculous plans are Misato's wheelhouse. Which just goes to show how similar they are, I guess. And Misato seems to be completely on board with the whole thing remarkably quickly. I wonder if she actually believes in the plan or if she's just desperate to try anything at all?

I don't recognize any of the locations in the scene with Hikari, Toji, and Kensuke or the scene after that. Are they still in Misato's apartment? She seems to have a living room, storeroom, and balcony that I don't remember seeing before. The room Asuka runs into looks like a convenience store. Is that a thing that Japanese apartments have? Have these places been in episodes before this and I just never noticed them?

I don't have much to say about the scenes with Shinji and Asuka, Misato and Kaji, or Misato and Ritsuko except that they're all obviously important bits of character development. None of them had to be in this episode necessarily, but when answering the question "How important was this episode?" all of those scenes could be pointed to as reasons that it's fairly important. They had to go somewhere, and the episode makes a plenty adequate plot and thematic framework to put them in.

The fight scene is mostly unremarkable except for two things:.
-Israfel seems to be extremely weak, or at least its beam attack is. The beam can't even penetrate through a thin layer of whatever material the Evas hide behind. Maybe it's stronger when combined, but it's clearly much, much weaker than Sachiel (to say nothing of Ramiel) in that regard.
-The Evas do a Super Inazuma Kick together, which I believe is the first explicit Gunbuster reference in the series. And nothing makes me happier than a robot doing a Super Inazuma Kick.

Lol at the hologram phone that Unit 01 apparently has on its back. Does it have those hidden all over the place, or did Shinji just get lucky that he happened to be by the only one when it rang? This episode is too silly.

This whole episode is basically just a completely contrived excuse to get Asuka moved in with Misato and to develop her relationship to Shinji a little, but I like it despite how goofy it is. It seems to know that all of this is implausible even by its own standards, so the end result is surprisingly sincere for something so dumb. I complained about how the animation of the last episode didn't succeed in depicting the ridiculous scenario in a way that made it more believable, but in this episode I think it completely succeeds. Everything comes together to make what could have been a total dud of an episode work very well. It's still silly as hell, but I'm okay with that. I'm glad the series didn't hit this wacky of a tone very often, but I don't think this episode is too out of place in the grand scheme of the series.

Episode 10: Magma Diver

I mentioned before that this pair of episodes contained one that I remember disliking, and this is it. In fact, this is the last episode that I remember having a negative opinion of.

I shouldn't even have to say this, but it's to Kaji's credit that he shuts down Asuka's advances so consistently and thoroughly. Given that he's an anime character and comes of as a bit of a creep with Misato a few times, that wasn't a given.

I think this is the first good look we get at NERV's bridge trio (Hyuga, Ibuko, and Aoga), isn't it? Or at least it's the first time we see them all together like this? I think Hyuga had a few lines in an earlier episode and we've definitely seen all of them in background shots and stuff, but this is the first time I've explicitly noticed them doing their thing like this. I'm fascinated by these three, and I know I'm not the only one. I think every other conversation I have with friends about Eva is about them in some way. I would love to see an OVA or a miniseries or something some day that shows pivotal moments in the series from their point of view. Or maybe ever just fairly mundane moments like this episode. At any rate, I wish we saw a little more of them.

The whole thing with Asuka being a super genius is a little odd. She consistently gets shit on by the show, almost always being the one who fucks everything up or jumps to wrong conclusions. We never particularly get to see her excelling at anything. It makes sense to me that Rei, a person with nothing in her life except her work, would be able to out-perform her a lot of the time, but I feel bad for her about how she always gets trumped by Shinji. This is something that Rebuild does differently, and I have a lot to say about that when we get there, but it's an interesting facet of the series and of her character. I don't necessarily think this is an oversight or anything, I think it's an intentional part of her character, but it's brought up surprisingly infrequently for how much it seems like it matters to her motivation.

I'm finding myself liking Shinji a lot more at this point in the series than I did in the first couple of episodes. I remembered having a positive opinion of him overall, so when we first started this viewing I was surprised how much of an ass he was early on. I don't know if he's just mellowed out by this point or if he's still a bitch and Asuka's personality just makes him look better by comparison, but I thought he was very reasonable in this episode. Maybe he's just deliberately staying on his best behavior to make Asuka look worse.

The plot of this episode has interesting implications for the series. If all of the Angels are just hanging out in places waiting to hatch, I wonder where the rest of them are? Are they all in volcanoes? Are most of them under the ocean? It's an interesting idea, but again it's never really addressed again that I remember.

I wonder what NERV would have done with an Angel if they had caught one? Would it have been like that skeletal Angel from Rebuild 2.0, where they would have eventually tried to graft an entry plug onto it?

Once again there's discussion of Rei piloting another Eva, and again I wonder if she could actually do it. She at least has a blood tie to Unit 01, but she's not related to Unit 02 at all. Kaworu could do it though, so she might be able to, but I don't know if she knows how to do whatever it was that he did.

Up to this point I haven't had any problem at all with this episode, but I found the second half to be as boring as I remembered. It's confined to a small area, there's no dynamic action, and it's visually uninteresting. The drama of this part hinges on whether we find the scene to be tense or not, and I don't really. Either it stops being tense after the first time you've seen it or it never was. I'm not sure the series has earned the right to ask us to believe something might actually go seriously wrong at this point. At any rate, I think this scene is much, much too long for how little happens during it.

I have no idea what to think of Sandalphon, since we never really get to see it and it doesn't do very much. It looks a lot like Gaghiel from the very little we ever see of it, but I think it has a humanoid arm or tentacle with a hand on the end and mushroom-like growths on its back? I also wonder if it was going to keep growing and changing for a while before surfacing if it hadn't been hunted down like this. Maybe it would look completely different by the time it got around to making an offensive move.

This episode shot itself in the foot visually, so it's one of the least interesting Angel fights in the series just because there isn't much to see. Now that I think about it, I wonder if the lack of interesting visuals in this episode is for budget reasons? It's probably much cheaper to animate some blurry red shapes than something that might be, you know, fun to look at. Given Eva's infamous budget problems, maybe this was just an attempt at a creative way to save money for more important episodes. If so, fair enough I guess.

But yeah, ultimately I didn't enjoy this episode much. There was some character stuff in it, but a lot of it was spent on that one boring scene. I'm also not sure what the point of all of the Okinawa trip stuff was, aside from just showing the different ways Shinji and Asuka react to the news that they won't be able to go. That seems like a slight payoff for how much time was spent talking about it.

Least necessary? Yeah, probably. That's fair. Worst episode? Not sure, arguably, those would probably go to episodes 23 and 24.

You think so? I disagree completely, although it'll be interesting to look at those episodes with that in mind when we get there.

Oh was it? For the MP Evas? Did they have S2 Engines as well?

I think so, right? Or was that just speculation on my part?

Lookie what I found. Compare it to the very beginning of the video if you weren't confident. I had no doubt that her German was terrible in the sub. It can't be helped, pretty sure there's a very limited supply of bilingual VAs in Japanese and German. Reminds me a bit of that scene in Hellsing with Rip van Winkle singing Der Freisch?tz, also in German, except that was more easily passable because pronunciation is more ignorable when you're singing.

Ha ha wow. That's fair enough, anime (and even Eva, thinking about Kaji's English in Rebuild 2.22) has a horrible track record for foreign languages. But yeah, comparing them side by side like that is amazing.
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Mеа

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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2015, 11:43:38 AM »
Ep:09 Momentarily Unite the Hearts

Haven't noticed the 3-shot of Misato, Ritsuko and Kaji in the OP before

I wonder if Asuka always wearing her Eva  ear hair clip things could have been an early indicator to first time viewers of her somewhat troubled personality. Besides, isn't is like confidential equipment? Why would Nerv let her wear it in public?

Asuka being popular. I wonder why they changed her middle name to Shikinami in the Rebuild series. Also she says 'hello' and not 'halo' or however you say hello in German.
Asuka stands above Rei, and she moves her book out of Asuka's shadow. Then she moves her shadow back over Rei's book. Kind of a lol moment. A bit revealing, perhaps.

First indication of Ritsuko having some kind of unrequited love with somewhat, as mentioned by Kaji.

Scene of Ramiel being deconstructed.

Shinji calls Asuka 'Sohryu' yet. Seeing Shinji assertive like this when he's arguing with Asuka is both a bit surprising and a bit of a relief, seeing how repressed he is in most other appearances. It shows how much he's grown since his first appearance, and I suppose how much he will regress later on.

Somehow I always had the impression that one of them lost first, then the other was double-teamed by the Angel. But no, they were both defeated by one of the halves within a 20 second span of time. Also there was a downtime of about 4.5 minutes of both Eva pilots losing and Nerv yielding command to UN, in the meantime of which the Angel was doing... something.

Asuka has a really big red motif going on everywhere. She has a deep wine red towel and soda can, etc etc.

Class Rep, Toji and Kensuke come to visit.
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The room Asuka runs into looks like a convenience store. Is that a thing that Japanese apartments have? Have these places been in episodes before this and I just never noticed them?
Must be one of the convenience stores nearby. Presumably the one that Misato buys all her food from.
That scene where one of the dots on the DDR pad lights up in front of Shinji's face and, all other limbs occupied, tries to hit it with his head cracks me up. Rei is also really amazing in a subtle sort of way. She manages to play the game perfectly her first time. When Misato tells Asuka that she might consider switching her with Rei, she looks very distraught.

Shinji almost steals a kiss from Asuka. Wth Shinji, you don't just take advantage of a sleeping girl. Then Kaji forces a kiss, somewhat, on Misato. She drinks with Ritsuko. Misato says that he hasn't changed since 8 years ago and that he's still a kid. Which seem to be the theme of the episode, people acting like kids or not considering themselves kids or whatnot.

The Yashima operation was ridiculous but this one is just outlandish. What's funny is that there wasn't even the slightest bit of tension in this battle either. Even the Gaghiel battle had some tense moments. This one they just fight to the music and win. Just like that. It wasn't bad though, just out there. Pretty cool to watch too. And are they broadcasting their phonecall throughout the city, lol? The amount of teacher/sensei vibe I get from Fuyutsuki is pretty amusing. From the little we've seen of him so far, he looks like he could be pretty good at looking after kids, at least better than Gendo.

Israfel sits in the middle to mid-low section on the design list. It's not that interesting, but at least it's humanoid (making it more kaijuu-y and monster of the week-y). The battle was pretty out there, which saves him from obscurity. Altogether, the episode was a pretty cute one where we get to see characters interacting with each other.



Ep: 10 Magma Diver
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I shouldn't even have to say this, but it's to Kaji's credit that he shuts down Asuka's advances so consistently and thoroughly. Given that he's an anime character and comes of as a bit of a creep with Misato a few times, that wasn't a given.
Though it didn't occur to me consciously, I have to agree with you. It's just become so commonplace for underage girls (or girls that look underage) in anime to be seen as some acceptable target of advances that it really is responsible of him to so categorically shut her down like he does while still treating her with respect.

I'm surprised that Okinawa and the other lesser islands had survived Second Impact and the tidal floods.

Asuka has bad grades, she calls Japan's grading system old fashioned. Do they use some different system in Germany? I remember my elementary school switching to some weirdo grading system using ME and EE (Meets Expectations, Exceeds Expectations) instead of the usual A B C D F system back in 5th grade.

Asuka and Shinji not being able to go on the school trip obviously also means that Rei wont be able to go. I wonder if she's ever been outside of Tokyo-3? Also she's swimming here, I wonder if it's a hobby or something, I wouldn't expect her to be someone who would make up for not being to go on the trip by swimming in a pool here. Even in all the scenes we've seen her in her school swimming suit she's just been sitting off to the side. And speaking of f'ing which I just realized that Rei isn't in her school swimsuit here, she actually has her own. I really do not expect someone as pragmatic and clumsy as she is to actually buy her own swimsuit when she can just use the school one. Who bought it for her? Unless she really did decide to buy her own. Also interesting was how the light on the ceiling reflecting underwater as Rei swam underneath resembled a silhouette of the moon.

Here we get to see the three people on the bridge. Maya reading a slim novel, Hyuga chuckling at a comic, and Aoba strumming along on an air guitar with some guitar books on his desk. Really wish we got to see more of these three in the series. Kind of like the Dollars otaku van group in Durarara.

Funny how waiting for an attack is safer than launching an attack on an infant angel. Possibility of Second Impact? I wonder if this is true. They aren't as informed as Gendo would be. I forget what specifically caused Second Impact, but I don't think it had to do with tampering with an embryo Adam.

I wonder what A-17 is.

How is Shinji fine under all that magma? Unless he isn't, which would explain why Asuka called him a show-off.

Misato reveals a chest scar from Second Impact. Certainly don't remember that.

Both episodes had pretty shoddy animation quality. Liked the first one more than the second one. The latter was pretty forgettable. Imo the most forgettable so far. Maybe the most interesting tidbit was of the Angel embryo maturing in some remote location on Earth. Which like you say brings up interesting questions about whether this can apply to the other Angels. Do they exist somewhere, maturing, before they appear? I'd say it makes sense, it's not like they simply pop into existence when they decide to invade. And it need not be limited to Earth either, since I doubt that Arael would have started out on Earth. This was probably the least interesting episode I've watched so far.

You think so? I disagree completely, although it'll be interesting to look at those episodes with that in mind when we get there.
Oops I meant episodes 25 and 26.

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Man, I love the Kaji/Misato/Ritsuko dynamic so much. I would watch a show about the three of them in college in a second. Or just an alternate universe thing where they live in the same apartment complex or something. I don't care, I want to see more of them just goofing around.
There's this pretty interesting idea that I found a few years ago where the main cast of Eva is swapped age-wise. So we have the Kaji/Misato/Ritsuko trio be the Eva pilots while Shinji/Rei/Asuka are the head personnel of Nerv. Makes for some really interesting dynamics, especially involving who would replace who position-wise. The whole thread was pretty fun to read, though it was waaay too long to actually go through entirely.
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commandercool

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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2015, 12:03:14 AM »
Ep:09 Momentarily Unite the Hearts

This episode seemingly has like a dozen different titles. I actually spent like fifteen minutes trying to figure out the title and I couldn't find a conclusive answer. I was looking throughout the episode for a title card and I didn't see one, although maybe I just missed it.

I wonder if Asuka always wearing her Eva  ear hair clip things could have been an early indicator to first time viewers of her somewhat troubled personality. Besides, isn't is like confidential equipment? Why would Nerv let her wear it in public?

I don't know that those belong to NERV. She had them in her first appearance, so it's possible they belong to whoever constructed Unit 02 (or did NERV actually still construct Unit 02, just outside of Japan? I don't know).

Asuka being popular. I wonder why they changed her middle name to Shikinami in the Rebuild series. Also she says 'hello' and not 'halo' or however you say hello in German.

I have a theory about her name change too that has yet to be confirmed or denied. I don't know when the correct time to talk about that is, but it's probably somewhere in the last couple episodes or End Of Evangelion. Or maybe Rebuild 2.22. Anyway, I think her name change is for a very specific reason and it ties in to her different introduction and personality in Rebuild.

Shinji calls Asuka 'Sohryu' yet. Seeing Shinji assertive like this when he's arguing with Asuka is both a bit surprising and a bit of a relief, seeing how repressed he is in most other appearances. It shows how much he's grown since his first appearance, and I suppose how much he will regress later on.

Yeah. Poor kid. I'm really rooting for him at this point.

Asuka has a really big red motif going on everywhere. She has a deep wine red towel and soda can, etc etc.

Obviously that's linked to Asuka's self-branding as Unit 02's pilot, and she has all of that stuff for the same reason she wears her plugsuit hairpins all the time. But I wonder if she associated herself with the color red before she became a pilot and demanded Unit 02 be red to match, or if she started leaning into the red theme after she saw the finished robot.

Class Rep, Toji and Kensuke come to visit.Must be one of the convenience stores nearby. Presumably the one that Misato buys all her food from.

Is that what happened? The cinematography does nothing at all to indicate it if that's the case. I'm still very confused about that scene.

The amount of teacher/sensei vibe I get from Fuyutsuki is pretty amusing. From the little we've seen of him so far, he looks like he could be pretty good at looking after kids, at least better than Gendo.

I actually had a conversation with my roommate this morning about this. To the effect of, I would love to see an AU where Fuyutsuki just adopts Shinji. He and Shinji do father-son activities together and Gendo just lurks around jealously. But yeah, I like Fuyutsuki a lot. He seems like a good guy. Would be interested to know a little more about him.

Ep: 10 Magma DiverThough it didn't occur to me consciously, I have to agree with you. It's just become so commonplace for underage girls (or girls that look underage) in anime to be seen as some acceptable target of advances that it really is responsible of him to so categorically shut her down like he does while still treating her with respect.

One of the bigger examples of that (or maybe it's a reversal, because the genders are flipped?) is in this very series. Although unlike a lot of anime it's not glorified at all and we're supposed to be shocked and appalled by it.

I'm surprised that Okinawa and the other lesser islands had survived Second Impact and the tidal floods.

That's a source of minor controversy. Some people claim that when they say they're going to "Okinawa" they must mean the flooded former site of Okinawa, hence the scuba diving. But apparently scuba diving is a popular tourist pastime in Okinawa anyway, so we're not really given any indication that that's the case.

Funny how waiting for an attack is safer than launching an attack on an infant angel. Possibility of Second Impact? I wonder if this is true. They aren't as informed as Gendo would be. I forget what specifically caused Second Impact, but I don't think it had to do with tampering with an embryo Adam.

I assume they're just wrong. If not, the only thing I can imagine they could be referring to is both Evas getting destroyed in the precarious situation they're forced to put themselves in, so the world will be destroyed by extension because there's nobody left to protect against the Angels. But that doesn't make much sense because Unit 00 would still be around and there are several other Evas in at least semi-open production. So yeah, I assume they're just wrong about that.

How is Shinji fine under all that magma? Unless he isn't, which would explain why Asuka called him a show-off.

My impression was that it was mostly the pressure from being so far under the surface, rather than the heat, that was the most dangerous to the Evas, so since Shinji didn't have to dive very deep he doesn't have to contend with that. He's a show-off because if he failed he would die, and I guess the lava probably hurt Unit 01 some, but I don't think it was the bigger threat.

Both episodes had pretty shoddy animation quality. Liked the first one more than the second one.

I thought episode 9 had pretty solid animation. It was very expressive and there was decent action. Nothing about it struck me as shoddy. Not like episode 10, which yeah, is shoddy as hell.

Oops I meant episodes 25 and 26.

Fair enough. I still like those episodes, but I can't fault anyone who doesn't. Especially anyone who had to watch those without immediately being able to pop in End Of Evangelion as soon as they were over and then immediately go read an analysis online. That was never the end of the series for me, so I don't think I have the resentment toward it that a lot of older fans do, but I don't begrudge people that resentment one bit.
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commandercool

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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2015, 05:56:30 AM »
Alright, bring on the monsters of the week!

Episode 11: In The Still Darkness

The opening scene is kind of bizarre. Do all of the NERV personnel hang out together all the time when they're not at work, or is Tokyo 3 such a small town that they can't help but constantly bump into each other. I like it a lot, seeing the characters in a different environment is fun, I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to take away from it.

I think this is the first time we ever hear what Magi is aside from it being mentioned (hence Maya apparently not even being sure what they are, despite working a few feet from them).

I don't like the repainted Unit 00 that much. I'm glad it doesn't have this design in Rebuild. Orange and white looks much cooler, although obviously the blue is to match Rei's color scheme.

The scene with Shinji calling Gendo is so sad. Once again, I am 100% in Shinji's corner at this point in the series. Poor kid. I wonder what the significance of the fact that he called from a pay phone is though. Doesn't Misato own a phone? Usually I would assume that he doesn't want anyone to overhear him, but who is he worried about and why? Does he not want Asuka to hear how nervous he is?

I just noticed for the first time that there are markings on the roads pointing out where the Eva launchpads are, presumably so nobody gets smashed by one of the launch bays popping out of the ground underneath them. Parking in Tokyo 3 must be terrifying, what with the robots shooting out of the ground and the fact that buildings appear and disappear periodically.

All things considered, I would say that this is the first "real" monster of the week episode in the sense that it's the first time the whole main cast is together and the first time the three robots fight together. It's not really introducing us to any major new concepts (Magi is not major at all in the grand scheme), it's just character development and checking another Angel off the list. The Shinji-Rei-Asuka dynamic is pretty well-developed despite the fact that we've barely seen the three of them in the same room up to this point because there has been so much work done to develop how they interact in pairs, so it's almost not even noticeable that this is their first real adventure together.

Matarael's first appearance is really cool. The scene with it sliding around in the water looks great. In fact, Matarael looks great overall. It may be the shittiest Angel in the series, bar none, but it's fairly memorable. Too bad we never got to see a Rebuild version of it. I bet that would have been cool.

The scene with Gendo and Fuyutsuki trying to be cool in the heat might be straight-up the funniest thing in this show so far. I loled.

Obviously Gendo is putting enough faith in the pilots that he expects them to show up in time to get in the Evas, but my first impression was that it almost seems to be that he's planning on doing it himself when he leaves to get them ready. Oh god I want to see that.

We talked before about how it was incongruous that Gendo seemed to favor Rei, but he still treats her like shit a lot of the time. I think we wrote it off as potentially being early script weirdness, but this episode actually seems to lampshade that. Rei claims that she isn't treated any better and at first it sounds like she's just trying to save face, but she's probably actually right. Gendo might be nice to her sometimes, but he still ultimately abuses her and she knows it. I'm not sure if it's sadder if she knows she's being mistreated or if she doesn't, but either way, that's really sad.

This is another one of those episodes that seems like it fudges the timeframe a lot. Seems like even with a lot of people and an existing game plan getting the Evas ready by hand would be a massive undertaking, and Matarael is already in the city when Gendo leaves to prepare them. Seems like he would have had to get them ready to go in a matter of minutes, which doesn't seem very plausible. Matarael does suck though, so maybe it's so slow that it took hours to squeeze between the buildings to get into position or something.

It's a well-established fact that Matarael is the worst Angel, but it has to have had some extra power that we never saw it use. I can't believe the only means of attack it had was crying acid on things that just happened to be directly below it. Maybe it had power absorption abilities, or a super-powerful AT field that has a blind spot directly beneath it or something. I assume it had some more tricks than we got to see. As it stands, it has the dubious honor of being the only Angel ever to be killed by bullets.

I forgot that the winning plan was actually Asuka's idea. That makes me feel a little bit better about how consistently she gets made a fool of in most episodes. At least one time, out of all of the many, many times she fucks everything up, she got to be the hero. At least a little bit. She's just lucky to have found the one Angel with a crippling bullet allergy then, since her plan seems to have just assumed guns would be enough to take it down.

I forgot about Unit 00's weird rocket thruster things that we see for like a second when it jumps down the shaft to pick up the rifles. Is this the only time we ever see those? Do the other robots have them too?

I think this is one of those fight scenes where the animation doesn't quite pull off the ludicrous scenario. Asuka's plan was sketchy anyway, but the way it's animated didn't do much to help me buy into it. The fact that Unit 02 absorbs all of the acid and none of it drips down is weird, and the quick cuts between closeups of the individual robots made figuring out where everyone was supposed to be tricky. A few zoomed out cross-sections of the whole shaft showing everyone in motion at once would have been nice. Seems like the animation budget just wasn't there, which again makes me sad for the Rebuild version of this that never was.

So we never do find out who actually sabotaged Tokyo 3 during this episode, but it seems pretty clear that it was probably Seele. Probably using Kaji. Weirdly it actually doesn't end up being important. I suppose maybe it's a plot point that's sort of relevant to End Of Evangelion, but I don't think anyone would have raised an eyebrow if this episode wasn't here. It's ultimately pretty inconsequential. I've got to say though, I like it a lot despite how little important stuff happens. The mood of it is great, except for the fight scene being weak the animation shortcuts aren't nearly as unfortunate as in the previous episode, and there's plenty of dynamic stuff going on. I don't think any major character breakthroughs originate here, and in fact there doesn't seem to be much character development to speak of, but I'm still glad it's here. You could throw the whole thing out and the series still works (which is why I assume Rebuild doesn't draw from any of it) but I wouldn't.

Episode 12: The Value Of A Miracle Is...

We get our first glimpse of the actual events of Second Impact, which is never something that I've found to be that interesting. The imagery of Adam's wings is cool (on a related note, what's up with the shot of Unit 01 with the same wings in the opening? That never gets called back to that I remember. Is that a scrapped End Of Evangelion design or something?) and the goings-on are technically important to Misato's character, I just don't think we really needed to see any of it. The juxtaposition of kid Misato with adult Misato strikes me as being especially weird, since it highlights her scar and yet we missed an opportunity to see how she actually got it during Second Impact. She doesn't seem to have a chest wound when we see her as a kid, so why point it out? I forget, is that scar ever actually directly explained?

I can't help but notice that Misato's room is very tidy for once. I assume that's a direct result of her promotion. She got commended so now she feels like she has to try to be less of a fuckup.

The animation this episode seems pretty sketchy. Nobody looks quite on-model and a lot of the backgrounds look a bit off. The food in the part scene, for instance, looks bizarre. There's some kind of meat-on-bone dish (maybe chicken wings?) that looks bizarre. Unless that's some weird Japanese dish I'm not familiar with the bones are too thin and the meat is too round and it doesn't look right at all.

"Nothing can exist in the world of death we call Antarctica. Or should I simply call it Hell?" Christ Fuyutsuki, dramatic much?

Sahaquiel is awfully silly looking. I don't remember thinking this episode was ridiculous the first few times I watched it, but after the stunning Rebuild version of it I can't help but find it kind of pedestrian. Maybe a slower reveal of Sahaquiel would have made it less goofy, but the first time we see it it's a full-on clear satellite image. Maybe a blurry or zoomed-out first look with a full reveal later would have been better. Or maybe it just looks dumb and was destined to be silly no matter how the reveal happened.

I'm a little surprised that Ritsuko still puts stock in Magi's calculations regarding how likely Misato's crazy plans are. She's got a virtually impossible success rate already if they're to be believed, so the natural assumption seems like it should be that they're just not properly measuring the capabilities of the Evas. Maybe this is the last time she puts any faith in their predictions about the Angels though, because I can't remember the ".00001% chance of success" stuff ever being brought up again after this. Another thing to watch out for I suppose.

I guess the fact that Rei is a vegetarian means that she has at least some likes and dislikes. Or maybe she doesn't actually care and meat is just incompatible with her weird body. If there's a food that she dislikes I wonder if that means that there are some she actively likes?

For how off-the-walls implausible a lot of the Angel fights are, I think this one actually makes a lot of sense. The plan is simple and straightforward, if apparently risky. So the animation didn't need to do any extra work to make it easy to understand, which is good.  It's interesting that Rebuild did choose to do a rendition of it, because again it's not really necessary to the story, but they needed to pick something to be the first time all three pilots work together and I guess this was the one with the most potential for improvement.

Not a ton happened in this episode, but I think ultimately it is more important to the story than the previous one. Some of the characters moved forward a bit more, and we got some useful (though probably not fully necessary) information about Second Impact and the Lance Of Longinus. I didn't like it quite as much as episode 11, but it's still just fine.
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Re: Let's Watch Neon Genesis Evangelion: Now In Progress
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2015, 03:23:29 PM »
Matarael's first appearance is really cool. The scene with it sliding around in the water looks great. In fact, Matarael looks great overall. It may be the shittiest Angel in the series, bar none, but it's fairly memorable. Too bad we never got to see a Rebuild version of it. I bet that would have been cool.
Clockiel's probably the closest we'll get.

Quote
"Nothing can exist in the world of death we call Antarctica. Or should I simply call it Hell?" Christ Fuyutsuki, dramatic much?
The subs make it seem rather dramatic, yeah. What Gendo says right after as a response sets off some ticks and tocks in my head though. He says "But here we stand, mankind, still living as lifeforms", or something like that. The latter half is kind of suspicious. Still alive as living beings? Or as lifeforms? That almost makes it seem like the anti AT Field the Giant of Light/Adam set off is still in effect. Especially since Fuyutsuki says in response to this that it's 'because they're under of protection of the power of science'. Which if it were the case, would mean that there exists a way to neutralize the anti AT Field waves, possibly how Misato survived in the capsule if it were equipped with that.
And this dialogue in general is what made me understand why I thought that Fuyutsuki seems like he would be good at taking care of kids. While Gendo continuing speaks of science as the power of mankind and what not, speaking as if he were above everything, as if he represented mankind or something, Fuyutsuki speaks like an old retired professor who's tired of all the experiments and is in deep regret and atoning for mistakes he's caused through his research. Fuyutsuki, rather than mystical science stuff, simply would rather be with people and likes them. He almost reminds me of one of the professors at my college who's technically retired but is still on contract who's very friendly, laid back and is quite popular with his students. Fuyutsuki also seems like the type who would be popular with his students. He and Gendo seem like polar opposites. Something about the way they converse to each other almost strikes me as a parallel of Misato and Ritsuko's light-hearted banter over serious matters. Though here it's as if they're just on the same team even though their personal viewpoints are very different. In fact, Gendo's definitely in charge, Fuyutsuki seems to just be reluctantly tagging along.


Anyway

Ep. 11: In the Still Darkness

Ritsuko, Maya, Aoba at coin laundry and run into Fuyutsuki in the train. Yeah I rather like these sort of off-work run-ins among the Nerv staff because it's nice to see how they interact. I think it's these small gems that make Eva shine, really, I really like these small talks. Also I just realized that Fuyutsuki calls Gendo 'Ikari', which probably makes him the closest person to him in the show atm.

Yeah that phone call with Shinji and his father is really sad. I don't really get Gendo's deal with Shinji is. The manga, I haven't actually read it, I believe made it seem like he was too scared to interact with him, scared to screw it up or get too close. Here he seems really brash and treats him like someone would treat a little dust on their shoulders.

The pacing of this episode is pretty hilarious. Black out. Is it Ritsuko's fault? "It's not my fault...". Well backup should be up soon. "What? Backup is also cut?" Would be terrible if an Angel showed up. "Unidentified object detected on radar." lol

JASDF detects the Angel but they aren't at all concerned because, "it's definitely headed towards Tokyo-03 anyway". I wonder it they're a little suspicious of why though? Also I realized that they called it the 8th Angel, and yeah, Matarael is actually the 9th. So this would mean that Nerv/Seele is keeping one of them secret. Which I assume would be Lilith, since we don't know about that one at all yet, and really don't at all until like at the very end. Well actually, Kaworu didn't know about Lilith. So either Seele did know and didn't tell him because they needed to get rid of him, the last Angel, or Gendo wants to keep it a secret from Seele because he needs to get his hands on Adam in secret. Well actually it would be ludicrous for Seele not to know, because they discovered the Black Moon in Japan along with Lilith. So what's with the cover-up? I guess so the Angels don't find out? But it doesn't seem like they react specifically to Adam, since they all think Lilith is Adam, meaning they just instinctually set out for one of the Seeds of Life, whether it's their own progenitor or not. Then again, Gaghiel attacked where Kaji was at presumably because it was sensing Adam. So if they can all sense both (or maybe it can only sense the closer one?) why would they all go for Lilith? Because it's bigger? Looks like I derailed on peripheral questions.

That scene with Gendo and Fuyutsuki standing with their feet in buckets of water is hilarious. And the way the candles are placed on the desk makes it seem like some cultist gathering. This whole episode is full of funny scenes, for having the lamest Angel, it's pretty good. And as you say, it's the first episode that all 3 pilots work together.

When Fuyutsuki remarks that the first attack on the HQ was not an Angel but rather some person, Gendo replies that mankind's greatest enemy is itself. Maybe 19th Angel/Lilin foreshadowing?

Rei says that she's not favored among the pilots by Gendo. It could be as you say. My initial thought was that Gendo favors noone. My next thought was that since she says "I can tell", maybe it could also mean that she can tell that secretly Gendo regards Shinji with more favor.

Asuka whispers to Shinji that she thinks Rei is rather scary since she wouldn't hesitate on any options to accomplish her goals and then calls her a self-righteous/justified type. The sub said "self-righteous bitch" which I think is an overexaggeration, if possibly a mistranslation. I don't really get the phrase anyway. Considering what she was saying to Rei, I guess she considers Rei to be too dutiful in accomplishing her objectives? If I just hear Asuka call her that, my initial reaction is, wow that's a bit ironic. But would that be true? Asuka is a bit damaged and prideful, but all things considered she is pretty normal. Rei is kinda the oddball in how she behaves how she does and just does things without any hesitation.

And I just realized that Asuka brings out the best in Shinji on a regular basis. I think they're good friends, even if they don't realize it. Shinji even gets into arguments with her, which says a lot. Good friends argue, as they say. Misato I suppose takes care of the back-end stuff of Shinji, opening up his heart to allow connections like the one he currently has with Asuka.

The fight scene is odd. If they dropped the gun, then Matarael show have cried it to sludge. And it seemed like it stopped crying only to start crying when Asuka went to go defend. And she said her role was to neutralize the Angel's AT Field while blocking the acid. Yet she only just stays in place. Does simply being in range of the Angel's AT Field automatically allow the Eva to neutralize it with their own? Doesn't seem like she's doing anything in particular. In episode 1, Unit-01 had to pry it open with its hands. Yeah, all odd.

Shinji makes some silly comment about maybe how being afraid of the dark and carving away at it with fire to live on is why humans are special and why Angels might be attacking them etc etc. Which sounds like total BS and Shinji just trying to get in some clever word. Or maybe just random musings.

Overall a pretty funny episode. The fight scene was lackluster and confusing, but the episode itself, all the rest of it, was pretty good. Either had nice interactions, nice atmosphere, or humor. Matarael itself wasn't as bad as I remembered either. It's not terrible. Losing to gunfire automatically makes it the lamest, but technically so did Gaghiel. Sandolphon died to fricking cooling fluid, I think that one was the lamest and least entertaining. That whole episode was pretty uninteresting. This was was at least filled with good stuff all throughout, and was also the first 3 pilot episode. And Shinji starts to wonder what Angels are and what not, which I think starts to break at the standard conventions of monster of the week shows, not that I've seen too many. Ironic that he would start wondering about why Angels attack them and the such in one of the first monster of the week episodes.


Ep 12: The worth of a miracle is

The Giant of Light/Adam has the shoulder binder thingies that the Evas store their prog knives in, odd.

Misato was placed in the emergency capsule. I think it's useful to note that her father immediately closes the hatch when she calls out to him. No last words, no nothing. Then he calls over and dies. Rather unromantic and not something I see often in shows. Though in this case, the action of saving her itself spoke volumes.

Plug Depth prototype here, from the Rebuild movies? The show calls it Graph Depth, where going to far risks mental toxicity/contamination. I wonder what it means though. The container itself is only half submerged in LCL fluid, while the plug inside the container is what lowers into the deeper end. Which I guess makes sense, since you don't want the whole entry plug moving up or down the Eva's neck, only the cockpit plug thing. Mental contamination from what? And also harmonics and sync ratios are different things, where Shinji's current Harmonics are 50 points lower than Asuka's.
One of the operators mentions that Shinji was 'born to pilot an Eva'. Some foreshadowing? I don't exactly remember the details of his birth and circumstances of Yui.

This is the episode that focuses on how similar Misato and Shinji are to each other. I wonder if we can extrapolate some details about either based on information from the other. Like when Shinji wonders why Asuka got mad at him for slowly catching up to her sync ratio and harmonics, Misato tells him that it's because he's always cautious and attentive to other's impressions of him. Could it be that she always was or is like that? Also while Shinji improving his test scores isolates him more from Asuka, Misato getting promoted starts to isolate her from her friends. In this episode, Ritsuko calls her 'Major Katsuragi' when trying to tell her how reckless her 'plan' is. First signs of friction?

Oh there we go, the South Pole has red oceans. And the big air carrier is carrying a long wrapped pole thing, which I assume is the Lance of Longinus.

Sahaquiel, I don't remember having either a negative or positive impression from my first view. The Rebuild adaptation really blew my mind though by how epic and awesome it was. A little ambivalent on the humanoid Angel within the Angel though. The animation for the Angel battle was pretty great, I'm surprised by the amount of action there was. Perhaps not as much as the one against Israfel, but with the budget restraints slowly revealing itself, I was pretty impressed. I totally forgot that the AT Field assisted mach dash was in the tv series.
Sahaquiel first destroys observation satellites with its AT Field, which Ritsuko mentions is a new way of using it. So this would be the first offensive utilization of it. Prior to this point, we only saw it as a defense, for neutralization of that defense, and sometimes for flying. Well, hell the AT Field assisted sonic boom run is in this episode, so I'm sure she's familiar with the general application of the AT Field, including destroying stuff, so maybe she meant new for the Angels. Crushing things with AT Fields seems pretty reasonable compared to like, say Leliel or Ariel. And when the bridge team is examining the small droplet bombs, Misato says something like, "such destructive force, as expected of an AT Field", which means that the little droplet bombs also had AT Fields on them. I wonder how that works. Remote AT Fields? Unless Sahaquiel can preserve some of itself when it splits off droplets like that, so that it can retain its AT Field.
I rather like the small Misato and Ritsuko banter scenes, here they're joking about how much destruction Sahaquiel might cause when it falls, like creating a new lake or what not.

Rei doesn't like meat? Maybe it goes beyond just being a vegetarian and her subconsciously not wanting to eat her 'descendants'. Though in that case, I suppose vegetables are technically Lilith based too, so that wouldn't work.

Seeing as Unit-00 uses its prog knife to cut open Sahaquiel's AT Field, it must be one of the weaker ones. I wonder how AT Fields expands anyway. Unit-01 in this episode was able to project the typical hexagon shape ones by pushing it to the max. Or maybe that was Sahaquiel's AT Field. Because in episode 11, Asuka tanked the acid tears without projecting the AT Field and just blocking it with her body. Makes sense that the smallest area of the AT Field would be the shape of the body, the shape of the ego. Sachiel tanked the JASDF gunship fires without projecting the hexagons but did later project them to block berserk Unit-01. Hm...

Shinji gets praised. Finally, a bone to the poor puppy! He seems so happy, and the episode ends on happy note. Shinji is happy, Misato and the three children are eating together, with Asuka managing to pick an event where Rei wouldn't feel uncomfortable joining. Almost a bit anxious, seeing him so happy like that.

Sahaquiel's design does look a bit wacky and silly compared to the Rebuild version. Or even by itself comparing it to the previous Angels, just a blob of orange makes it look like a really bad kindergarten crayon drawing or a clump of play-doh. Liked both episodes though, even though some of the character models looked a bit off sometimes.
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