Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[MatsuriSakuragi]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-eternal-masters-2016-02-15

Eternal Masters announced. Looks like lots of old cards are getting reprints.

[commandercool]

It's notable that those two cards they showed there are astronomically expensive right now, in the range of hundreds of dollars each (and terrifyingly they were both uncommons previously). It'll be interesting to see what this does to their prices.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'm just hoping they are bringing back some of the more expensive pieces of my Soul Sisters deck that I need but don't want to buy.

[commandercool]

Which pieces are those? I'm guessing probably not since the suggestion seems to be that this set will be all pre-Modern cards. They don't actually say that anywhere though, so maybe it'll just be mostly pre-Modern with some newer cards. I could be wrong, but I believe Soul Sisters is mostly a Modern deck and doesn't really have a presence anywhere else. Swords To Plowshares seems like an obvious reprint, but is it even legal in Modern?

[yuyukos]

It's notable that those two cards they showed there are astronomically expensive right now, in the range of hundreds of dollars each (and terrifyingly they were both uncommons previously). It'll be interesting to see what this does to their prices.

I wouldn't consider Force nor Wasteland "astronomically expensive right now," even compared to other "eternal" staples; Force of Will has been holding at ~$100 average and $60-70 low, and Wasteland has been in steady decline. These 2 were probably chosen because of iconic reasons relevant to the formats supported by this set. These are 2 cards that players think of as necessary for playing in Legacy and Vintage, and are also considered Cube staples.

[commandercool]

I wouldn't consider Force nor Wasteland "astronomically expensive right now," even compared to other "eternal" staples; Force of Will has been holding at ~$100 average and $60-70 low, and Wasteland has been in steady decline. These 2 were probably chosen because of iconic reasons relevant to the formats supported by this set. These are 2 cards that players think of as necessary for playing in Legacy and Vintage, and are also considered Cube staples.

Oh shit, really? I thought Force was ~$300 and Wasteland was ~$150. I certainly don't know my Legacy prices, but I'm surprised to hear that. Fair enough. That's low enough that I could see reprints not actually mattering that much.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Upon better understanding, I probably won't see any of the cards I need for Soul Sisters, like Serra Ascendant, Ranger of Eos, and Path to Exile.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I wouldn't consider Force nor Wasteland "astronomically expensive right now," even compared to other "eternal" staples; Force of Will has been holding at ~$100 average and $60-70 low, and Wasteland has been in steady decline. These 2 were probably chosen because of iconic reasons relevant to the formats supported by this set. These are 2 cards that players think of as necessary for playing in Legacy and Vintage, and are also considered Cube staples.

Wasteland has been helped by coming back via the Expedition lands in Oath, and I don't see Force of Will going down in price very much because a) it's a key card for Legacy/Vintage and b) it's a mythic rare card in a set with a limited print run. Considering Tarmogoyf's price wasn't really affected by either Modern Masters reprint, I don't have much hope.

Personally I'm hoping for some reprints of Modern cards with Legacy applications, such as Life from the Loam or the enemy-color fetch lands as regular rares

[commandercool]

Some people have said that Tarmogoyf and other Modern staples didn't drop much (or at all, or they went up) from the reprints because Modern Masters got more people into Modern, which increased the demand as well as the supply. I can see that happening here.

Personally I'm hoping for no Modern reprints, but I could see it going either way. I'm anticipating a lot of Legends reprints. I didn't realize the fucking Reserve List was quite as far-reaching as it is though, that's going to make this tricky. I was really hoping for a Chains Of Mephistopheles reprint.

Oh yeah, and I hadn't noticed Life From The Loam was up again. That's one of those cards I buy a bunch of every time it falls out of favor and tanks (along with Vesuva and Crucible Of Worlds, and probably soon Splinter Twin as well) and sell them when Modern shakes up and they go back up. Think I should sell now or keep holding on to them?

[MatsuriSakuragi]

What is the reserve list?

Also I just noticed this costs 9.99. Why does it cost as much as three packs of any other set?

[Jq1790]

http://archive.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

It seems it's a list of cards that are never, under any circumstances, going to be reprinted in a form intended to be playable, nor will any functionally-identical cards be released.  This list will not be added to or subtracted from according to the words on the page there.

[commandercool]

The reserve list is this weird pact that Wizards made many years ago to appease Magic speculators who were mad that reprints were dropping the value of old, rare cards. It's a list of cards that Wizards has vowed never to reprint so that they won't ever "artificially" drop in value. It's widely regarded now as a shitty and regrettable concession, but there's nothing Wizards can do about it now unfortunately.

These reprint sets (Modern Masters I and II previously) are always priced high because everyone knows they're going to sell out regardless. In theory they cost a lot because they'll contain enough super-expensive cards to make the investment worth it.

[Jq1790]

Personally I think people who get mad at things dropping in value should grow up and find something ELSE to whine about since it's a game first and foremost, but alas.

[commandercool]

I think you'll find very few people who will publicly disagree with that semtiment at this point, and certainly nobody at Wizards. It was a different time I guess and we hadn't really nailed down what a CCG is yet. They were probably honestly afraid sales would tank or they wouldn't have made such a massive concession. It's probably a safe bet that nothing like that will ever happen again now that priorities have become much more clear.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

The high prices are kind of conducive to un-fun-ness, I have to say. I mean, I understand supply and demand is a thing, but just reprint the fucking cards, don't lock them down


Meanwhile, I made a fun milling deck yesterday in its entirety for less than the cost of an intro deck. Midnight Guard + Retraction Helix with Altar of the Brood, and infinitely recycle an Ornithopter to mill the opponent's deck in one shot. The rest of the cards are deck thinners and counter spells.

[Ionasal kkll Solciel]

So anyone who really cares about it has almost certainly already heard about it and/or already has put money down for it, but David Sirlin is making yet another Kickstarter project, this time for a deckbuilding game called Codex. With around half of the campaign left, he's already raised over twice his funding goal.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Personally I think people who get mad at things dropping in value should grow up and find something ELSE to whine about since it's a game first and foremost, but alas.

Well MTG speculators are also the people who indirectly popularized Bitcoin so uh

Even in the case of cards they haven't contractually forbidden themselves from reprinting, WoTC lets itself be way too beholden to the secondary market at times. I can handle the Masters sets being sold at double price, but releasing them in limited print runs doesn't actually solve the problem of demand outstripping supply for key staples, especially when they're released at mythic rarity like Tarmogoyf was before or Force of Will is intended to be

On the other hand, this would be a good opportunity to reprint some old cards based on their current errata'd versions, so I can't wait to see how that turns out

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'm starting to consider making an actual serious deck for once, and I'm thinking it's gonna be an angel deck.

But there's just so many and their CMC is so high. Maybe I could run Myr stuff as a mana ramp in early game???

[Jq1790]

Heh, was playing with a friend with some of his decks(not an active player myself but I dont mind playing if others provide cards), and was hit by infinity comets for infinity damage. It was hilarious.

[commandercool]

I'm starting to consider making an actual serious deck for once, and I'm thinking it's gonna be an angel deck.

But there's just so many and their CMC is so high. Maybe I could run Myr stuff as a mana ramp in early game???

I don't think there's really such a thing as a "serious angel deck" right now. The only time you'll ever see a serious themed deck is when there are a number of powerful cards supporting that theme, and thst just doesn't exist right now for angels. Maybe once Return To Innistrad comes out we'll see more.

I'm guessing your best bet is white control that uses high-quality angels as win conditions. You could try some kind of mana ramp, but white ramp isn't usually a thing just because it doesn't have a ton of tools.

Or you could make an angel-based Commander deck... That should work. Big fat fliers are good in Commander, a lot of angels have relevant effects, it will honestly probably be much cheaper than building a competitive deck, and you can usually get away with playing a handful of bad cards just for goofs. Do you know if Commander is a thi g where you play?

[MatsuriSakuragi]

It was my shopkeep's angel commander deck that inspired me, honestly. Amazing art and delightful lockdown control abilities. How could I say no?

But if there's no place for them in Modern, how should I go about making white control? (I'm fine with diversifying colors too.)

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

A popular option for white control is the "death and taxes" build that relies on effects that raise mana costs for your opponent to do pretty much anything, but a lot of the key pieces in the deck are $10+.

Another option for control is to take advantage of lockdown abilities that prevent attacking/blocking; things like Pacifism and Azorius Arrester can really slow down an opponent while cards like Oblivion Ring and Stasis Snare let you get rid of things more permanently.

If you want to go into a second color, blue is probably the best to pair with for a control build. Reflector Mage is a recently-printed uncommon with a pretty potent ability, and things like Unsummon]http://magiccards.info/m13/en/75.html]Unsummon let you gain control of the game over time.

[commandercool]

But if there's no place for them in Modern, how should I go about making white control? (I'm fine with diversifying colors too.)

Sorry I didn't answer this earlier, I don't really know enough about Modern to actually answer it. My best guess is start with 4x Supreme Verdict and go from there. :V

I've been doing a lot of Commander tinkering lately. My Skullbriar, The Walking Grave deck was pretty sketchy when I made it, but the release of Thief Of Blood and the growing popularity of Aether Snap in my group has completely killed it off as far as I'm concerned. So I took it apart and now I have a slot for another Commander deck. I really liked black/green so I wanted another one of those. Options are limited, but I've decided I really like Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest. Just finished building around him and ordered a handful of cards for the deck, so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Mazirek's pretty fun when it has opportunities to go off; the fact it can go off from fetch lands is absolutely hilarious to me.

Meanwhile, I've decided my initial foray into Modern is going to be with a mono-green stompy/devotion build. The decklist I've planned out:

4x Avatar of the Resolute
4x Experiment One
4x Leatherback Baloth
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Young Wolf
4x Aspect of Hydra
3x Collected Company
4x Prey Upon
4x Rancor
4x Vines of Vastwood
3x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
18x Forest

[Aya Reiko]

Bought a Fate Reforged Fat Pack for $30.

Four packs in, this show up.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

So I picked up MTGO for the sake of testing builds and such before going out and buying the actual cards. I ended up making a fairly cheap deck (-5 TIX) of Myr and Eldrazi cards and just demolished the opponent by overwhelming them, setting up an infinite mana system, and taking their life from 20 to 0 with a well-placed Banefire.

...man, I gotta make this deck irl. Most of the cards are stupid cheap.

edit: yep

fun deck



props to the dude i played too for being a good sport during the ~5 mins I took to get everything out on the field because you can't just imply infinite mana in the game like you can irl

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I have acquired cards for and assembled a new deck for FNM funtimes, based on my MTGO deck.

Gold Myr x4
Iron Myr x4
Palladium Myr x4
Myr Galvanizer x4
Myr Battlesphere x4
Myr Welder x1
Artisan of Kozilek x2
Indomitable Archangel x1

Mirrorworks x4
Banefire x3
Fireball x4
Tempered Steel x4
Coat of Arms x1

Tomb of the Spirit Dragon x4
Mountain x8
Plains x8

It's so beautifully simple and works so well, and it works on this main idea, but is overall flexible:
Get Mirrorworks on the field. More than one, if possible, because the second can be duplicated.
Mirrorworks can be used to duplicate any artifact in the deck-- so it can duplicate Myrs I put on the battlefield (effectively doubling my potential mana pool if Galvanizer isn't available), or just outright duplicate Galvanizer for instant combo. Hilarity ensues if I have Coat of Arms, as well.
The main combo, however, revolves around mana ramping or infinite mana combos.
Palladium Myr or 2 Gold/Iron Myr + 2 Myr Galvanizers = Infinite Mana
This can be used for following moves, in order of priority:
-Banefire: Uncounterable win condition as long as the infinite mana combo is intact
-Fireball: Counterable, but win condition that can also completely wipe the field otherwise
-Bring out all cards in my hand onto the field, including Artisan of Kozilek for high damage/annihilator, Myr Battlesphere-- which can be duplicated for doublecast and instant 8 myr tokens-- and even more if I have multiple mirrorworks on the field, or Indomitable Archangel, who gives all artifacts shroud, to ensure they can't be countered or killed as long as she is on the field.

Also: Mirrorworks + Coat of Arms + Myr Battlesphere = hilarity. Mirrorworks duplicates both cards if I can afford the mana cost-- thus, Coat of Arms is doubled and Battlesphere is doublecast as well-- giving me 2 Battlespheres and 8 Myr Tokens-- and thus, while one Coat of Arms would provide +9/+9 to all 10 of those, two would mean it's duplicated to +18/+18-- and more added if there are additional myr already on the field. So even if this is all I have, all those little tokens went from 1/1 to 19/19. I love it.

Tempered Steel is there to supplement Myr stability as well, giving them all +2/+2.

Tomb of the Spirit Dragon is there for stalling purposes. Put out a lot of Myr, and tap every turn for nice life recovery.

Cards I'll be buying soon to supplement:
Myr Turbine x4 (definitely getting these-- it'll allow me to constantly pump Myr Tokens on the field and tap them to search for pieces of the Infinite Combo. Even better when duplicated!)
Myr Reservoir (Maybe? Would work nicely with Mirrorworks for mana provision, and would allow me to bring back dead Myrs if someone gets smart and breaks my combo)
Dispatch (with metalcraft, it's a one-drop exile. Very nice!)

Sideboard (WIP):
Oblivion Ring x4 (Probably unnecessary once I get Dispatch)
Windborn Muse x2 (Useful if they're playing a fast deck)
Welding Jar x1 (I need more of these...)
Lodestone Myr x1 (Potential win condition, but less reliable than just blasting with fire)
Endless One x1 (Infinite Mana = Infinite Power/Infinite Toughness, but easily blocked or countered)
Breaker of Armies x2 (Field management)
Spear of Heliod x2 (Creature buff and enemy destruction, but kinda pricey for when I would need it most)
Victory's Herald x2 (mostly for hilarity. Manaramp into casting, then sweep with flying lifelink myrs if I have a lot of them. Not very reliable though...)


Thoughts? I think it may be super fun overall, especially once I get some Turbines and throw them in the mix.

[commandercool]

I can't comment on the deck too much. Combo decks are so outside of my purview (I prefer smashing dudes with a pile of Worldspine Wurms or something over combos), but to me it looks like you've got a severe lack of card draw. I don't know, I don't even really play Magic anymore, I only play sealed and Commander so maybe that's totally normal, but for a combo deck it seems like you'd want a lot of card filtering.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I can't comment on the deck too much. Combo decks are so outside of my purview (I prefer smashing dudes with a pile of Worldspine Wurms or something over combos), but to me it looks like you've got a severe lack of card draw. I don't know, I don't even really play Magic anymore, I only play sealed and Commander so maybe that's totally normal, but for a combo deck it seems like you'd want a lot of card filtering.

It's a potential risk, yeah-- but in practice it's really not too bad. So many of the cards overlap in use that it's pretty likely I can pull off some form of a combo. Gold and Iron Myrs are pretty much the same, and if Mirrorworks is in effect, bringing out one is functionally similar to bringing out one Palladium. Banefire and Fireball are also functionally similar, serving more or less the same purpose. Myr Welder can fill in for any Myr that I don't have at the time-- if it was killed, at least.

I just don't know what I'd drop for card draw without losing utility overall.

EDIT: I just solitaire'd for a while and was finding myself getting really nice combos consistently around the turn 5-6 mark. That's nothing amazing to be sure, but still, even without always hitting the instant win conditions, I'm setting up solid defenses-- ones that will only be more so if I can get some Turbines out on the field.

Meanwhile, I came across this as well: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=47450

Myr Incubator would be the ultimate risk-reward deck thinner. I could just exile all the artifacts I don't necessarily need, and then put that many tokens on the field. If I already have a Galvanizer or some Tempered Steel on the field, all of those tokens are powered up. At the very least, it would buy me some time by blocking attacks until I get something better out.

[commandercool]

Regarding card draw and losing utility, one of the functions of card draw,is to effectively reduce the number of cards in your deck. If you have four Gitaxian Probes and four Street Wraiths you effectively have a 52-card deck (and a lot less life), which means theoretically you don't need redundancy. It's now much easier to draw the cards you need at any given time. The same thing is basically true of cheap non-free card filtering as long as you don't need the mana for something else.

I'm not saying you should cut anything or add anything particular, but keep in mind that card draw or even Scry concentrates and enhances the utility you do have. It's usually not too damaging to lose a little utility or redundancy for it.

You would also probably need to splash a third color for it too, which would probably cost you a ton for a good mana base.