Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[MatsuriSakuragi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL9jA3CKBDY

Ignoring my feelings on the Professor, I cannot agree with him more when it comes to his opinions on Magic. He really hit the nail on the head regarding how stupid expensive it is to play competitive Magic.

[commandercool]

Lords Of Waterdeep is $40? That's not much at all for a board game that size.

Seriously though, anyone who likes Magic should strongly consider picking up Seven Wonders, it is my favorite tabletop game of all time.

To more directly address the video, I'm not going to try to say that's reasonable, because it isn't. However, there is at least the sort-of-excuse, sort-of-explanation that people tend to get into Modern following years worth of investment in Standard that allows them to pick up bits and pieces over time. I think it's relatively rare that someone shells out the price of a used car on the spot for a deck. That doesn't help new players obviously, which is obviously bad, but I think the "correct" flow for someone playing Magic is to start out in a cheaper format, gradually build up a collection and trade, and transition into a more expensive one using assets that don't necessarily involve straight-up buying your way directly in.

[commandercool]

Huh, so it seems that Wizards did an unprecedented second pass on their banlist and added Felidar Guardian in retroactively. Weird... Well, good I guess.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Huh, so it seems that Wizards did an unprecedented second pass on their banlist and added Felidar Guardian in retroactively. Weird... Well, good I guess.

Apparently Amonkhet was added to MTGO before widespread retail release and going by Standard stats from there apparently the Copycat deck increased in usage so that was pretty much all the information they needed to drop the hammer.

Also for anyone following the weekly story updates: YIKES

[commandercool]

So Sol Ring is finally banned in Commander... in Magic Online only. So close! Although at this point as much as I think Sol Ring is bad for the format I think Skullclamp is much worse, so whatever. Commander is and pretty much will always be a fundamentally broken format, so there's only so much bans can do.

[commandercool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGh-GlyUYlM

I've been talking about having Chessex print me up a bunch of those creature token dice for years. Guess somebody beat me to it, this was basically exactly what my idea was except with different icons for the different colors.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Still can't really work up the desire to play Modern or Standard lately. I haven't played since October.

Meanwhile, I'm considering building a Nicol Bolas commander deck. He seems fun to play and I like Grixis colors, so it could be fun...

[commandercool]

Standard looks really fun right now. I don't feel like I have the time to play and don't really have the money to invest in a deck right now, but I've been watching a lot of streams and it looks relatively varied and fun. Nothing seems downright oppressive and the format seems to be running at a good speed. If I was to play it would probably be Grixis Drake Haven, which is both cheap and seems fun. Although I've been seeing a lot of crazy stuff happening with Anointed Procession Aristocrats. I do love my aristocrats and Wizards is definitely pushing them right now.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

If I were to actually play Standard, I could see myself trying to build a fun Izzet control deck now that there's a fairly respectable amount of counterspells and bounce spells and burn spells. Throw in some Spirits for some poking in the air and it could be a good time.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Still can't really work up the desire to play Modern or Standard lately. I haven't played since October.

Meanwhile, I'm considering building a Nicol Bolas commander deck. He seems fun to play and I like Grixis colors, so it could be fun...

I have seen a good flavor-themed list for him going around and you have a lot of good options if you go down that road like Cruel Ultimatum, Wit's End, and Crux of Fate, so I say go for it.

If I get around to doing Standard again I kind of want to do some sort of mono-red deck, there are a lot of surprisingly good beaters and Hazoret looks like an amazing way to top off a curve.

[commandercool]

Oh hey, some Hour Of Devastation spoilers leaked!

Oh no, they're just fucking planeswalkers... Well, and Bontu's Last Reckoning is pretty interesting. I don't think it's playable in Commander, but it's got interesting implications in a lot of formats. I wonder if that's going to be a cycle?

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Nothing wrong with 2 new Planeswalkers. Especially non gatewatch ones. Kinda want Bolas for the commander deck I may build.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

God, I'm really feeling enthusiastic about putting some new commander decks together but I have no idea where I want to put my money when I really kind of resent a lot of the people I can play with around here and the main friend I want to play with, I only see once every couple months. I dunno what to do. Anyone up for playing some Commander on XMage or something?

Currently thinking about:
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim -- lifegain/removal/reanimation, aristocrat style
Archangel Avacyn -- slam down angels and blow shit up, lots of flickers
Breya, Etherium Shaper -- Kinda tired of my slow and clunky Sydri deck, as much as I love it. Breya feels more impactful and lively.
Nicol Bolas -- mass discard and a reason to play Cruel Ultimatum
Nekusar, the Mindrazer -- group hug fuckery

I'd really like to play Jeleva too but she seems to be as hated as Oloro and I kind of don't really want to play super popular commanders, Breya aside. Hm.

Ayli sounds like the most fun at any rate. So versatile and durable and fun.

[commandercool]

I play Nekusar (I even had a custom card with Satori art made) and apparently the people I play with hate him.

Ayli sounds fine. Lots of room for infinite combos and degenerate shit too if you want to go there.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Yeah that's the thing. My Sydri deck is pure degenerate in the most slow, grueling way possible. I lay down hate cards like Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Crawlspace, Ethersworn Canonist, etc in early game to drag the game to a screeching halt, and win by means of infinite combos that either put the game in a complete standstill where I can't possibly lose (Darksteel Forge + Mycosynth Lattice + Platinum Angel + Lightning Greaves, etc) or infinite combos that just straight up win the game. They're pretty much my sole wincons.

With Ayli, I can win through the classic Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood combo, or just load up on life and win through Felidar Sovereign or Aetherflux Reservoir. Or load up on life, draw my deck through Necropotence, and just overwhelm the game. Or I can just win with stuff like Archangel of Thune + a shitload of creatures swinging in. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is a ridiculous planeswalker in this deck, too.

So many options, and black has so many good card draw generators for lifegain decks. Necropotence, Greed, Phyrexian Arena, Underworld Connections, Dark Prophecy, etc.

Feels right up my alley. Fair, but can be totally degenerate if I want it to be (and may need it to be, for the people who want to play hypercompetitively and win in the first few turns).

What's really cool about Ayli is that she kind of runs the game on her own. I'll amass a bunch of tokens and just use them as ammo. I can totally just tap Tree of Perdition, force my opponent to 13 life, and then sac it and gain 13 life, only to have Ravos, Soultender bring it back next turn and do it all over again. And then if someone puts down something dangerous or annoying, I can just nuke it with Ayli by ditching a token or something that gives me a bonus when it dies/leaves the battlefield. See ya, combo pieces.  She's just so good-- a 2/3 for 2 mana with Deathtouch on top of that? So good.

[commandercool]

So some bits of the first Commander 2017 deck have been leaked. It is indeed a five-color dragon deck, and it looks pretty amazing so far.

Ramos and Ur-Dragon are both contenders for best five-color commander I think. You can build around them in some powerful ways without being forced into any extremely narrow strategies by them. I'm foreseeing a LOT of people trying to build around Wasitora even though she doesn't seem great to me.

Meanwhile, Magic MMORPG announced so that's pretty crazy. No real details yet as far as I know.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Ramos seems fun for Door to Nothingness combos.

I'm not really a big fan of dragons though since I prefer more disruptive strategies, though. I'm really hoping Angels are one of the "tribes" in the new commander set. It'd pretty much be an instant buy for me if they're good.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Going by the theme of C17, I'm doubting Angels will be in simply because they really don't lend themselves to making a five-color deck. I'm expecting stuff like Slivers, Allies, Elementals, or something off the beaten path like artifact creatures or Atogs.

So Announcement Week begins today and they are leading with quite the shakeup.

-"Blocks" are being eliminated entirely; fall, winter, and spring sets will now be independent large sets designed to be drafted on their own, starting with Spring 2018
-Core sets are coming back starting next year
-The Gatewatch will appear less often in story and in sets
-Masterpieces will no longer be in every set; Ixalan won't have them
-WoTC is getting a new team called Play Design to more thoroughly test Standard and Limited and keep things like Felidar Sovereign from happening again

[commandercool]

Going by the theme of C17, I'm doubting Angels will be in simply because they really don't lend themselves to making a five-color deck. I'm expecting stuff like Slivers, Allies, Elementals, or something off the beaten path like artifact creatures or Atogs.

I do not want to see slivers. They're already too easy and good. Atogs would be hilarious but awful since individual atogs rely on stacking one (or occasionally two) resources and I can't envision a deck that can keep enough different 'togs fed to do anything.

So Announcement Week begins today and they are leading with quite the shakeup.

-"Blocks" are being eliminated entirely; fall, winter, and spring sets will now be independent large sets designed to be drafted on their own, starting with Spring 2018

Oh wow, that's a HUGE change. They sure didn't give the two-block structure much time.

-Core sets are coming back starting next year

Okay, weird.

-The Gatewatch will appear less often in story and in sets

YAAAAAAAY!

-Masterpieces will no longer be in every set; Ixalan won't have them

Interesting.... Again another extremely short experiment. I wonder how often we will see them.

-WoTC is getting a new team called Play Design to more thoroughly test Standard and Limited and keep things like Felidar Sovereign from happening again

Whatever it takes I guess. I don't think people will forgive this again if it happens any time soon.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Mm, maybe. I can see Angels coming in all colors, even if they're primary in white and secondary in red, with only infrequent splashes in black/blue/green. But I still think it could be great, especially if it finally gives them a chance to bring in Serra as a commander or something.

As for new stuff:
-Individual sets: I'm cool with this. Gives each particular set its own flavor and allows for more variance, rather than "oh, we just had like 6 months of artifacts, can we please have something else"? It offers more variance in gameplay while staying on-flavor, which means a lesser chance of one deck dominating all of Standard, as we've been seeing for a very long time now.
- Return of Core sets: I started playing a little while after Origins (more specifically, when Gatewatch came out), so I don't mind seeing this come back, especially if it gives them a chance to bring in much-needed reprints into both Modern and Standard.
- Gatewatch reduction: Thank god, they're getting boring.
- Fewer masterpieces: Not sure how I feel about this. Don't really care since I rarely buy sealed.
- More playtesting: God yes. I really hope they put a little more attention into the effect of new cards on Modern too, sooner or later. (Also I think you're referring to Felidar Guardian, right?)

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

So summary of updates from today:

-Aetherworks Marvel is getting hit with the banstick in Standard
-more official confirmation of the MMO
-Amonkhet will be the last content update for Magic Duels; development efforts are being refocused to its successor; more details will come at Hascon
-All future digital products are intended to be linked to a single account

[MatsuriSakuragi]

can't they just focus on making mtgo suck less or something

[commandercool]

-Aetherworks Marvel is getting hit with the banstick in Standard

Oh shiiiit! I did not expect that, but I can't say I think it's wrong. Yeah, this is definitely a historic standard.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Announcements from today:

-The Ixalan sets come out on September 29 and January 19
-A multiplayer boxset for Ixalan comes out on November 24
-Duel Decks: Merfolk vs. Goblins comes out on November 10
-This year's From the Vault set will be dual-sided transform cards and will release on November 24
-A 25th anniversary Masters set will come out in March 2018
-The spring 2018 set will be a return to Dominaria
-a new core set will come out in July 2018
-Unstable, the third silver-border set, comes out in December 2017

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Very cool stuff. Don't really care about un-sets but it's nice they're still in the works. Hoping the Masters sets bring good reprints in with the core sets. Return to Dominaria is probably the coolest news to me.

I wonder what the new FTV will have. Delver of Secrets and some of the flipwalkers for sure... Westvale Abbey? Archangel Avacyn?

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I wonder what the new FTV will have. Delver of Secrets and some of the flipwalkers for sure... Westvale Abbey? Archangel Avacyn?

I can see some of the other popular double-sided cards of the time like Huntmaster of the Fells and Bloodline Keeper getting in, and Civilized Scholar and Thing in the Ice are really neat thematically.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

yooooo so while I wait for all the pieces of my Ayli deck to get here I'm changing my Sydri combo/hate deck into a Breya deck that's faster, more active, and more aggressive. Can I get some advice on what to take out and what to put in?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-06-17-breya-wip/

I'm just not sure at all of what to do with this hot mess.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Also whoa these Hour Of Devastation cards. Gatewatch can handle the eldrazi but they can't handle Bolas!

rip in pieces and make room for new planeswalkers

i for one welcome our new god pharaoh dragon overlord

[commandercool]

yooooo so while I wait for all the pieces of my Ayli deck to get here I'm changing my Sydri combo/hate deck into a Breya deck that's faster, more active, and more aggressive. Can I get some advice on what to take out and what to put in?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-06-17-breya-wip/

I'm just not sure at all of what to do with this hot mess.

My suggestions are all going to bear in mind the metagame that I play in, which might not be as relevant to you, but here goes:

-Cut the combo enablers, or at least most of them. Pili-Pala, probably Grand Architect even though it has non-combo applications, Voltaic Construct, Mycosynth Lattice, Thopter Foundry, Sword of the Meek.

-Cut most of the prison cards. Propagands, Ethersworn Canonist, Crawlspace, Darksteel Forge.

-Cut Dromar's Charm because it's not very good.

-Add token generators. Myr Battlesphere, Sharding Sphinx, Pia 'n Kiran, possibly Pentavus. Tempered Steel and other anthems, maybe with Ajani Goldmane.

-Add token payoffs. Jor Kadeen, Marionette Master, Crescendo Of War if you're feeling crazy. Maybe Sword Of The Paruns.

-Add Momentary Blink because it's the best. Probably Eerie Interlude as well.

-This may not work, but consider a minor lifegain subtheme since Breya can gain you life. Archangel Of Thune and Well Of Lost Dreams could do a lot of work in theory, especially if you add a couple more ways to incidentally gain life like Sphinx Of The Steel Wind and Sword Of War And Peace and so on.

-Stealing opposing effects is always worth a slot, even if it's off-theme. Memory Plunder, Phyrexian Metamorph, Blatant Thievery, Spelljack, Debtor's Knell, Grave Betrayal, possibly Wrexial. No need to go nuts with these effects, but they're often nice to have a few of.

-Lately I've been enjoying the hell out of counters with significant upside. Confirm Suspicions and Insidious Will are very good, especially Confirm Suspicions in this deck since clues are incidentally artifacts.

-Add a few goodstuff cards in your colors like Unburial Rites, Reiterate, Recurring Insight, Decree Of Pain, and Rush Of Knowledge.

-Every deck should always be playing Relic Of Progenitus.

I know those aren't real focused suggestions, but that's what comes to mind. Hopefully at least a little of that helps.

[commandercool]

http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/avatarofwoe.jpg

...Aku?