Topic: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread  (Read 57878 times)

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Matsuri

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2016, 10:04:44 am »
The first one was more or less representative of the first three series of the card game, yes.  Haven't played the second.
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Spotty Len

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2016, 05:07:31 pm »
Second one is more or less the same, with a few more cards (the Team Rocket set, basically) and different enemies. And you can play as a girl.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2016, 05:19:38 pm »
And doesn't it have twice the number of gyms too? I only played through it once but I loved it, definitely recommended. And the last boss is a king who winks at you every time you do something. It's pretty much the best.
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Matsuri

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2016, 05:44:34 pm »
Has it been fully translated yet? I had it downloaded but never really played it since it was only half complete.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2016, 05:49:17 pm »
Pretty sure it was, yeah. I would have played it three years or so ago and I don't remember it being incomplete.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2016, 06:00:17 pm »
The original game was fun back in the day back when it was still decently balanced. I am guessing the point where any semblance of that went out the window was when Nintendo took over the game from Wizards. I stopped playing around that time, at least, and I had already thought the game was getting pretty ridiculous as it was, but looking at some current cards, it seems pretty ridiculously overpowered compared to how the game used to be.
Pokemon TCG had some pretty bad powercreep later on; I'm not sure if it happened when they introduced Pokemon-EX or before that point but somewhere the power of the rarest monster cards just got ludicrous.

I do appreciate that they kind of fixed Trainer cards so you can't recur Bill and draw all the cards in a single turn

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2016, 06:10:29 pm »
I lost a game last night by drawing so many cards I died, so even though Bill and Professor Oak aren't a thing any more you can still go pretty nuts. The modern Bill (Tierno) just draws three cards, even though you can only play one of him a turn.
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Spotty Len

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2016, 06:53:26 pm »
And doesn't it have twice the number of gyms too? I only played through it once but I loved it, definitely recommended. And the last boss is a king who winks at you every time you do something. It's pretty much the best.
I didn't go that far, I was stuck at one gym that asks for Psy energies only and never managed to find how to grind them, unlike the first game...

Dahel

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2016, 07:32:08 pm »
Emergency banlist for yu-gi-oh, where the core cards of the horribly broken deck ruling this format (Performages & Pals) just got banned/limited.

Yep, the deck got destroyed, and i'm currently having a lot of fun watching all the PePe players being salty as hell. Nothing tastes better than popcorn salted with the tears of the yu-gi-oh community.
Soon

Matsuri

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2016, 12:42:20 pm »
help i'm hooked on bolstering my soul sisters deck

there are a bunch of "instant win" conditions i've installed

soul sisters/suture priest/martyr of sands + felidar sovereign
- use sisters/priest/martyr of sands to get over 40 life
- felidar sovereign is instant win over 40 life

gift of orzhova + sunbond + martyr of sands = enchanted creature has +1/+1, flying, and lifelink, and sunbond gives +1/+1 for each life point you gain. sacrifice martyr of sands and reveal a bunch of white cards. so say i have 5 white cards in my hand and sacrifice her-- i gain 15 life. enchanted creature now has +16/+16. have them swing in the air, then not only do recover base power + 16 in life, but i then gain that in +1/+1s as well. so for example

ajani's pridemate is 2/2
- with orzhova, 3/3
- add sunbond
- sacrifice martyr of sands, gain 15 life
- pridemate gains +1/+1 as part of ability for lifegain, now 4/4
- pridemate also gains +15/15 due to sunbond, now 19/19
- pridemate swings in the air for 19
- due to lifelink i gain 19 life
- pridemate gains +1/+1 as part of ability, now 20/20
- pridemate also gains +19/+19, now 39/39
- repeat until win if you have not already. this can also be given to any of the sisters or any soldier/spirit tokens just because

aegis of the gods + rune tail, kitsune ascendant + martyr of sands
- sacrifice martyr of sands so i have over 30 life
- kitsune flips at 30+ life, becomes rune-tail's essence
- rune-tail's essence prevents ALL damage done to my creatures
- aegis of the gods gives hexproof
- opponent cannot target with me or spells or abilities, and cannot damage any of my creatures
- i am now invulnerable to pretty much everything i am aware of, and am free to bolster my team and swing away or win with felidar sovereign


and meanwhile when i don't have those, i can just throw recumbent bliss, lock down the opponent, and gain life every turn lol

and here i am researching other cards to mix it up; considering splashing black with white/black lands for more ridiculousness
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 12:56:15 pm by Matsuri »
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2016, 02:28:44 pm »
there are a bunch of "instant win" conditions i've installed

This isn't to rain on your parade at all, just poking holes for clarity.

soul sisters/suture priest/martyr of sands + felidar sovereign
- use sisters/priest/martyr of sands to get over 40 life
- felidar sovereign is instant win over 40 life

That's not really "instant win" since your opponent has a full round to kill the Sovereign or knock you below 40. It's still good, just not instant.

gift of orzhova + sunbond + martyr of sands = enchanted creature has +1/+1, flying, and lifelink, and sunbond gives +1/+1 for each life point you gain. sacrifice martyr of sands and reveal a bunch of white cards. so say i have 5 white cards in my hand and sacrifice her-- i gain 15 life. enchanted creature now has +16/+16. have them swing in the air, then not only do recover base power + 16 in life, but i then gain that in +1/+1s as well. so for example

You may already know this, but auras are generally frowned upon as a bad usage of your cards. They can be extremely powerful, but they sit you up for huge blowouts where you cast an aura or two on one of your creatures, then your opponent destroys it with Doom Blade or whatever before you can do anything. They're down one Doomblade, you're down a creature and one or two auras. Sometimes that can just be the game right there since it puts them so far ahead on cards and mana. That's not to say that auras can't be used, but they're one of the biggest risk/reward tradeoffs in the game.

A decent way to mitigate this can be using auras that don't give you card disadvantage when destroyed. In your case some of the better options seem like Felidar Umbra and Spirit Loop, both of which do similar things without setting you up for a huge blowout. There are still ways to get fucked by them, but they're less risky. That said, if you just want to play Gift Of Orzhova because you like the art, go for it. Winning with subpar cards is satisfying. Just be aware that it is a bit subpar.

aegis of the gods + rune tail, kitsune ascendant + martyr of sands
- sacrifice martyr of sands so i have over 30 life
- kitsune flips at 30+ life, becomes rune-tail's essence
- rune-tail's essence prevents ALL damage done to my creatures
- aegis of the gods gives hexproof
- opponent cannot target with me or spells or abilities, and cannot damage any of my creatures
- i am now invulnerable to pretty much everything i am aware of, and am free to bolster my team and swing away or win with felidar sovereign

If I'm reading this right, this does not make you invincible at all. Not even close. If makes you tough, but there are a TON of things your opponent can still do to you. Granted you may have meant that metaphorically.

-Destroy your creatures (damage =/= destroy, sacrifice, or a number of other means of death, so Rune-Tail doesn't actually protect you from that much).
-Hit you with unblockable, flying, or trampling creatures. Nothing here prevents you from being attacked, it just gives you some hard-to-kill blockers.
-Alternate win conditions. Even with your huge life total, a lot of opponents in Modern will be trying to combo out and you don't have much protection from that.

Just for the record, you can't become invincible in Magic. It's impossible. There are always ways around any convoluted wall of defense cards. You can get pretty close, and if you do often Platinum Angel is involved, but there are always tons of ways to lose. Not that you really ever need to be fully invincible, but trying can be kind of futile. Just getting pretty tough to buy enough time to kill your opponent is as far as it's worth going in my opinion.

and here i am researching other cards to mix it up; considering splashing black with white/black lands for more ridiculousness

General suggestions:

The most common suggestion you'll probably get is Sanguine Bond plus Exquisite Blood, which is actually an instant win combo. Those cards may be a little more expensive than most of the others we've been talking about, but they're not too bad. There are also a handful of creatures whose names I can't remember who duplicate these effects, but they tend to be less efficient because it's easier to destroy creatures than it is to destroy enchantments.

As a general rule if a card does nothing but gain you life, it sucks. Don't play Beacon of Immortality because it doesn't get you any closer to killing your opponent, which is still the point of Magic. It's a common beginner's trap to get too excited about gaining life and to not put enough actual win conditions in their decks. It looks like you haven't had that problem here, which is great, but it can be easy to fall for even for some advanced players.

Try looking here for more ideas:

Edit: For some reason MotK is eating the format on this link, but if you quote my post and copy and paste it from there you'll get the full text.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[life]&format=+[%22Modern%22]&color=+!+![R]+![G]
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 02:34:11 pm by commandercool »
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Matsuri

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2016, 03:36:32 pm »
Hmm, all right. I guess there are concepts I didn't understand.

Here's my current Soul Sisters deck. What would you suggest to improve it?

Main deck:
Soul's Attendant x4
Soul Warden x4
Aegis of the Gods x4
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x4
Suture Priest x3
Ajani's Pridemate x3
Martyr of Sands x3
Felidar Sovereign x3
Victory's Herald x2

Elspeth, Sun's Champion x1

Gift of Orzhova x4
Sunbond x4
Recumbent Bliss 4
Spectral Procession 2

Plains x 21 (I figured a lower count would be okay since most of the cards in the deck cost less than or equal to 3 CMC.)

Sideboard:
Aegis Angel
Felidar Sovereign
Martyr of Sands
Suture Priest
Ajani's Pridemate
Ajani's Mantra
Staff of the Sun Magus
Raise the Alarm x4
Triplicate Spirits x3

Not much thought put into it yet. Kind of just an overflow from cards I used to use in the main deck and replaced.

Cards I'm currently looking into:
Chalice of Life//Chalice of Death (yet another life source that can become a damage source)
Cradle of Vitality (may be better overall than Sunbond?)
Grand Abolisher (seems useful?)
Spear of Heliod (since I choose to eat damage a lot (I mean, I can afford to with all this life, and sacrificing creatures means sacrificing recovery), I can use this to remove annoyances from the field)
Nyx-Fleece Ram (fast and defensive life source)
Vizkopa Guildmage (one of the reasons I want to splash black in the deck. Scary combo with Martyr of Sands.)
Orzhov Charm (seems cheap and versatile for removing enemies (if I can tank the damage) or bringing back Soul Sisters from the graveyard if they get destroyed.)
Proclamation of Rebirth (bringing the tiny white cards back from the dead. Don't really understand the Forecast bit.)
Boon Reflection (okay I admit this one is just there for me to be a jackass with. But it obviously pairs with other stuff! Double life recovery stacked with everything I have would amount to a lot...)
Harsh Sustenance (combine this with all of the token generators I have, and this could be nice)
Sanguine Bond, as you mentioned, would be great as well, and Exquisite Blood would be just as much better. Kind of high CMC though (for good reason!) Sanguine Bond seems like a pretty cheap card too, why not?
And Platinum Angel: Why does this even exist? I want it.
Felidar Umbra/Spirit Loop look great too, I'll look into those.


And for the sake of splashing black without using swamp lands, since these all double as plains too...
Scoured Barrens (can be used as white or black, and a life source. Not bad.)
Temple of Silence (also white or black, and lets me scry)
Isolated Chapel (white or black, and of course I have plains...)
Caves of Koilos (can be white or black at cost of 1 life)
Windbrisk Heights (can be used to get some of the 6 CMC cards out for cheap)
Orzhov Basilica (kind of an annoying setup, but it counts as 2 mana, right?)


Do you have any thoughts on these?

And I'll look through the link you gave for more ideas too.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2016, 03:56:26 pm »
Will expand this later when I'm not posting from my phone.

I don't see anything in there that I would consider to be straight-up terrible. Personally I wouldn't play the auras, but they certainly have a big payoff so it's not not worth it.

Just FYI, Proclamation Of Rebirth+Martyr Of Sands used to be a popular combo. Forecast is a little complicated, but basically what it does is let you play a weaker, more expensive version of your spell, but you don't actually lose your card. You can Forecast every turn as long as you can pay for it because you just reveal the card, yoy don't cast it. You can go ahead and cast it normally the same turn too if you want to get the effect more times, but then it' be gone so you won't have it to Forecast with any more.

Where you go with the deck from here should be determined in large part by how you lose with it. When you lose games what went wrong? Are there matchups you have trouble with?
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2016, 06:26:49 am »
Okay, here's the expansion on my earlier post not that I'm at my computer and have time to look at everything in more detail. This is largely opinion, but hopefully you find it to be at least a little useful. I'll comment on everything I have any particular thoughts on, be it on your deck or a possible choice.

Before I get rolling though, are you familiar with the concept of "card advantage"? I have trouble evaluating Magic by any other lens, so I'll probably be referring to it a lot.

Hmm, all right. I guess there are concepts I didn't understand.

Well feel free to ask if you have any specific questions.

Aegis of the Gods x4

I don't like this guy. The number of cards that he actually protects you from isn't that high in my experience. Opponents just don't target me that often, and he's god a pretty crappy body for being white. If you're often finding that he's seriously hindering your opponents then fair enough, but I would probably consider him sideboard fodder.

Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x4

I don't care for this card at all. For one thing you have four copies and it's legendary. Four is probably too many for a legendary creature that isn't essential to your deck. The effect is pretty strong when it's relevant, but it doesn't seem like it would be relevant often enough to justify four copies, and you don't get to choose whether or not the transformation takes place so you may just find yourself losing a creature and gaining a non-relevant enchantment. I would probably cut it entirely, but again if you're finding it consistently useful you should keep it. Just maybe consider not running four copies main deck.

Victory's Herald x2

There's this idea in Magic that an expensive card (anything that costs four or more, or maybe five or more depending on who you ask) should either be hard to get rid of or give you a lot of value right away so that even if your opponent destroys it immediately you get something good. This card has a weak body for the cost and doesn't really do anything until the turn after you play it. Personally I would strongly recommend Sun Titan in this slot because it gives a ton of value instantly and repeatedly. Just imagine this guy bringing back a Martyr every turn. Gross.
 
Gift of Orzhova x4
Sunbond x4

As I mentioned before, I think these are sketchy as hell. Playing them isn't necessarily the wrong choice, but I probably wouldn't play four copies each. The general rule is to replace auras with equipment as much as possible since equipment is a lot more reliable, but there isn't really any equipment that directly subs out for them.

Chalice of Life//Chalice of Death (yet another life source that can become a damage source)

I kind of like the idea of this card. Tapping to gain one life a turn is pretty shitty, but a reusable Lava Axe will kill just about anybody in no time. Certainly worth trying I think. I don't know if it will work but if it does it'll be fucking awesome.

Cradle of Vitality (may be better overall than Sunbond?)

I would say so, yeah. It probably gives your opponent one extra turn to find a way to deal with it before you start pummeling them, but it's more reliable and you can spread the counters around if you want to.

Grand Abolisher (seems useful?)

I'm a fan of this guy. A 2/2 body seems a lot more reasonable that Aegis' 2/1 and I think the effect will be at least as commonly applicable.

Spear of Heliod (since I choose to eat damage a lot (I mean, I can afford to with all this life, and sacrificing creatures means sacrificing recovery), I can use this to remove annoyances from the field)

This is a rock solid card, yeah. Especially with Spectral Procession around, you can do some horrifying damage pretty fast with it. Both parts are useful. I never know how many copies to include of weird legendary cards like this, but two seems like it might be a good call.

Nyx-Fleece Ram (fast and defensive life source)

I would consider this more of a sideboard card than anything else, unless you're finding you really need blockers. This guy is absolutely backbreaking against some aggressive decks, but then again your whole strategy kind of is. Other than that I would strongly recommend something more proactive. Knight Of Meadowgrain comes to mind as one of the more brutally effective white cards ever printed for this slot.

Vizkopa Guildmage (one of the reasons I want to splash black in the deck. Scary combo with Martyr of Sands.)

I can tell you for sure from Commander, this guy is a nightmare. He has an efficient enough body even if you aren't activating his effects, but by the time you have the mana to pay for them they can kill people out of nowhere. Probably don't run Sanguine Bond if you end up running this guy though, since they're redundant.

Orzhov Charm (seems cheap and versatile for removing enemies (if I can tank the damage) or bringing back Soul Sisters from the graveyard if they get destroyed.)

This seems like it meshes well with your deck. It's not one of the more popular charms, but all three effects are very relevant here, especially if you continue to play the auras you have right now. Having to recast the creature and the aura would be a bitch, but it's a lot better than losing both. You probably need more removal too, and multi-use removal is a great thing. It effectively counts as copies 9-12 of Soul Sisters and 5-8 of Martyr too past a certain point.

Proclamation of Rebirth (bringing the tiny white cards back from the dead. Don't really understand the Forecast bit.)

Not sure if this really quite fits, I think it depends on how fast your metagame ends up being, but if you game starts to run long even a little this could turn out to be insurmountable.

Boon Reflection (okay I admit this one is just there for me to be a jackass with. But it obviously pairs with other stuff! Double life recovery stacked with everything I have would amount to a lot...)

If you're going to play this effect, and I don't recommend you do, I would say do it in the form of Rhox Faithmender. Especially if you're playing Sunbond or Cradle Of Vitality, a card that's a valid target for those probably trumps a card that isn't.

Harsh Sustenance (combine this with all of the token generators I have, and this could be nice)

Seems a little inefficient to me unless you're heavy on token makers, but it could end games out of nowhere which is interesting.

And Platinum Angel: Why does this even exist? I want it.

Just as a point of interest, they made a sequel to this card in Platinum Empirion years later. You don't want him though.

Orzhov Basilica (kind of an annoying setup, but it counts as 2 mana, right?)

These land are weird. They're a huge risk because they're slow and if your opponent destroys one you get set back by a huge amount, but they're pseudo-card advantage. They're extremely heavily played in Commander, but outside of that I think people tend to only play them in slow control decks. Might be worth trying. And you can pair them with land that have effects when they come into play to reuse those effects (Bojuka Bog is great for this if you end up splashing black).

Here are some extra recommendations that won't necessarily come up in that Gatherer search I linked earlier for black/white:

-There's a lot of efficient black/white removal. Unmake is my favorite one in Modern (I swear Vindicate was reprinted at some point, but I guess it wasn't so it isn't Modern legal).

-I think your deck needs more card draw. It will help keep things going smoothly into the middle game and make sure you never have too much or too little mana. White is probably the worst color in the game at drawing cards, so you'll probably want to look to black for this. I'm a huge fan of Phyrexian Arena, in fact it's probably my favorite card in the game. The price fluctuates a lot though and sometimes it can be kind of expensive, so something like Pain Seer should work similarly and is probably easier to get ahold of.

-One of the things you may find your deck struggling with is combos. Because a lot of combos don't care about your life total they can kill you no matter how well established you are. So finding cards to deal with them might be a good sideboard option. Again, black is very good at this. You can use cards like Duress to break your opponent's combo early on before they can find all of the pieces, or more niche sideboard options like Sadistic Sacrament to permanently cripple combos and completely disable some decks.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2016, 03:40:04 pm »
Path to Exile is probably the most efficient white removal I can think of but each copy costs around $8 so you might want to go with something else for now

Depending on how many burn decks you're up against in your local metagame, Kor Firewalker looks like an interesting possible sideboard option.

As far as matchups for the deck go, my main concern would be Infect deck since its win condition ignores your life total.

Matsuri

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2016, 04:04:43 pm »
All right, now that I've had some time to sleep and ruminate on your post:

No, I dunno what card advantage is. Mind explaining?


Anyway, I actually ended up going to the card shop last night and played a few rounds with a guy who happened to be there. It wasn't a super-fair matchup since I was facing a finely tuned Standard deck, but that's precisely what I wanted-- an unfair matchup that would make the flaws of my deck super-obvious.

My analyses:
- Auras really do blow, especially when you're facing a green/red land-generating deck that can get out 5-8 CMC cards out in less than three turns, especially when those cards have effects that can target creatures. Can't remember the card's name, but it was an 8/8 that once he got it on the field, the effect was 5 damage to creatures or a player-- and he nuked all of my 1/1s in one shot, clearing the field. He then swept me from there. No bueno.
- Rune-Tail's Essence is a fantastic card, but you're right, I don't need four, because getting it in action is difficult unless I have it and Martyr of Sands basically on turn 1. I did once though, and I won that round because it effectively turned all of my 1/1s into 1/∞ in terms of blocking power, which made the Soul Sisters that much more functional as life-generating walls.
- Token generation is kinda pointless unless I'm specifically focusing on it in my deck. Didn't really help me all that much. Spiritual Procession is nice for an early easy 3-in-the-air attack though.
- Felidar Sovereign is really hard to pull off.
- The Soul Sisters are fantastic, but not when you're taking more damage than you're recovering.

So I ended up buying some of the cards on my list last night, and I'm happy to know that the ones I ended up choosing match your analysis of what is useful. My deck is now:

67 cards:
Soul's Attendant x4
Soul Warden x4
Martyr of Sands x4
Suture Priest x4
Ajani's Pridemate x4
Nyx-Fleece Ram x2 (I kind of wanted more, but they only had 2 in stock and I'll have to hit up one of the other two nearby stores for the rest)
Vizkopa Guildmage x4 (I'm so glad these were cheap, I think they may be a central card in my deck from now on)
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x2 (I feel comfortable at least having 2 of these dudes in here)
Victory's Herald x2 (You have a point, I'll replace them with Sun Titan most likely. But for now, if I can pull it off, it's pretty good. (I never pulled it off last night.))
Felidar Sovereign x1 (I may end up just keeping all 4 of these in my sideboard if I want to tweak the deck to be focused on getting life and life alone, banking on it for victory. He's too expensive to field naturally.)

Orzhov Charm x2 (seems like a lucky ace in the hole if I really need it)
Cradle of Vitality x2 (only had 2 in stock, I kind of want 4. Strictly better replacement for Sunbond, as it allows me to distribute counters freely rather than put all my eggs in one basket and watch it all get demolished.)
Recumbent Bliss x2 (I don't know how I feel about reducing the number of these. Disabling an enemy and gaining life at the same time is kind of core for the deck, but I figured Orzhov Charm could serve the purpose of neutralizing and Nyx-Fleece Ram could serve the purpose of being a recovery wall.)
Spirit Loop x2 (I bought 4, but I am not sure if I need 4 since they constantly return to my hand. But I think they're a fair replacement for Gift of Orzhova, as much as I love the card-- it's faster and pairs well with Vizkopa Guildmage, Since it heals me regardless of whether I attack the player or not, it'll end up dealing direct damage anyway! And double damage if I do end up attacking directly!)
Spear of Heliod x2 (I bought 4, but I wasn't sure if I should include them all or not. This card's great from how I see it, since it allows me to continue preserving my field while picking off creatures dumb enough to deal direct damage to me. And it's a buff at the same time! Very nice.)
Chalice of Life//Chalice of Death x4 (I'm kind of hoping this works out really well. If I pair it with Martyr of Sands and get it out early, it's likely going to be a deciding factor of the game overall. Especially if I manage to get multiple ones out. Instant 5/10/15/20 damage per turn!)

Elspeth, Sun's Champion x1 (If I can get her out, she's a constant token/life generator for the Sisters to play on. And I can use her to nuke away anything 4 power and up-- and unless I have Ajani's Pridemate or Cradle of Vitality buffs going on, that keeps me more or less safe.)

Orzhov Basilica x4 (I dunno how to feel about this, but once I get it going, it seems like it could be super-useful, especially if I can play it early before the opponent gets anything else on the field. Turn 2, I can use a plains to bring out a first or second 1 CMC card (of which there are many), play Basilica, bounce the plains to my hand, and replay it the next turn.)
Scoured Barrens x4 (life gain and white/dark coverage? Very nice.)
Plains x13

Sideboard:
Gift of Orzhova x1 (I can't let them ALL go. Kinda makes me sad.)
Aegis of the Gods x2 (Only if the opponent constantly plays targets me and not my creatures.)
Felidar Sovereign x2 (Lets me change up the strategy a little.)
Spiritual Procession x2 (It is pretty useful...)
Recumbent Bliss x2 (kinda wish I had all 4 in my deck but I don't want to make it too overpopulated...)
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant x2 (thinned them out, not sure if I want to keep them here or not)
Spirit Loop x2 (Maybe if I really dig the combo with Vizkopa.)
Spear of Heliod (too good to leave behind.)


What do you think of it now? I feel like the deck is too full, but I dunno what else to thin out, especially if I replace Felidar Sovereign and Victory's Herald with Sun Titan. I also really like Unmake and Phyrexian Arena, too. I dunno how heavily I want to push black though, since I only have the equivalent of 8 black mana in the deck via Basilica and Barrens. Grand Abolisher is definitely on my list as well. Sadistic Sacrament looks absolutely devious though, even though I don't think I could ever pull off the kicker-- but it would ruin the opponent if I could.

I appreciate the suggestions-- it's really getting me to step back and consider not just my own setup, but how I can prevent my opponent from ruining mine and setting theirs up.

EDIT: At the card shop last night, someone had left a stack of cards on the table-- it was a bunch of packs they had opened, took the rares out of, and left the rest behind. The manager said I could take them, and it had a card called Touch of Moonglove in it. This looks like it could be very useful, too-- just attach it to a pawn and either deal extra direct damage or kill a blocking creature and still deal 2 direct damage.

Path to Exile is probably the most efficient white removal I can think of but each copy costs around $8 so you might want to go with something else for now

Depending on how many burn decks you're up against in your local metagame, Kor Firewalker looks like an interesting possible sideboard option.

As far as matchups for the deck go, my main concern would be Infect deck since its win condition ignores your life total.

Yeah, Path to Exile is way too expensive. I like it a lot, though. Firewalker would completely disable a couple people I know, but I'd probably sideboard it or something before putting it in for sure.

And yeah, I have no idea how to manage Infect-- the best I can do is hope for a quick kill with my Chalices/Guildmages.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:08:56 pm by Matsuri »
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2016, 06:03:08 pm »
No, I dunno what card advantage is. Mind explaining?

Alright, this is an extremely key concept to understanding what choices to make and what cards are good in Magic. I'll do my best to explain it. It's pretty simple but also kind of tricky to explain.

Card advantage is basically what happens when your cards and your opponent's cards cancel out. If you block their 2/2 with a 2/2 both die and nobody got card advantage. If they Doomblade your creature they traded one card for your one card and nobody got card advantage. But if they Doomblade your guy with a Sunbond on it they spend one of their cards to cancel out two or yours and they got +1 card advantage. If they have ten creatures in play, you have two, and you play Day Of Judgment you get +7 card advantage (+10 for killing 10 of their creatures, -2 for killing your own creatures, and -1 for playing Day Of Judgment). If they have 75 creature tokens in play that were all generated by the same Storm Herd, there are no other creatures in play, and you kill them all with Pyroclasm nobody got card advantage because you still just cancelled their one card with your one card.

A card like Beacon Of Immortality that doesn't cancel out any of your opponent's cards directly is often just straight-up negative card advantage. However, in some situations, like if your opponent has spent three Lightning Bolts targeting your life total already, it can actually become card advantage because you've used it to cancel cards of their. If they're attacking with creatures every turn instead of hitting your life with one-time effects it usually isn't because it doesn't actually deal with the threats, it just slows them down.

So what does that mean practically? If you've ever gotten to a point in the game where you have few or no cards in hand and on the board and your opponent has a bunch more, it's probably because they've been getting better card advantage than you either throughout the game or at one key moment. This means they now have more options and you're at a serious disadvantage. So if you look for opportunities to squeeze out card advantage wherever possible you can have more cards, which means more options, which means you're probably going to win the game. Not definitely, but probably. This applies both to making choices in-game and choosing which cards to put in your deck. If you're playing a card with inherent card disadvantage you'd better have a good reason for it.

Card quality plays a big role too, so it's often worth it to put yourself at card disadvantage to trade several cards that for whatever reason aren't very important right now for one card that matters a lot. But be careful when you do this, because any situation where you're already putting yourself at card disadvantage can be a potential blowout. For example, if your opponent has a 4/4 creature that's about to kill you and you block it with 4 1/1s, they can use any number of different effects to throw off the math (killing one of your blockers, making their creature bigger, even Unsummon on one of your small guys) to keep their creature and make you lose all or most of yours, which puts you at even bigger disadvantage than the calculated trade you were trying to make.

Does my explanation make sense?

- Auras really do blow, especially when you're facing a green/red land-generating deck that can get out 5-8 CMC cards out in less than three turns, especially when those cards have effects that can target creatures. Can't remember the card's name, but it was an 8/8 that once he got it on the field, the effect was 5 damage to creatures or a player-- and he nuked all of my 1/1s in one shot, clearing the field. He then swept me from there. No bueno.

That sounds like Dragonlord Atarka, who notably can't hit players with his comes-into-play effect (so if your opponent did that they cheated).

This guy illustrates a few points I've tried to make recently. For one thing, he's almost always inherently card advantageous. Since he can usually kill at least one thing when he comes into play, and often several things, and your opponent will probably have to spend at least one card to get rid of him, he can often put you at +1 or even more cards. Also, he does something immediately upon entering play, which is a near-requirement for an expensive creature. Unless he gets countered he's probably going to leave a mark on the game even if he gets removed at the earliest possible moment after he's cast. Unlike Victory's Herald there's little chance of casting him and getting nothing for it.

- Rune-Tail's Essence is a fantastic card, but you're right, I don't need four, because getting it in action is difficult unless I have it and Martyr of Sands basically on turn 1. I did once though, and I won that round because it effectively turned all of my 1/1s into 1/∞ in terms of blocking power, which made the Soul Sisters that much more functional as life-generating walls.

It's definitely a matchup-dependent card to some degree, and this sounds like a great matchup for it. A deck that relies on big creatures to win will probably have a very hard time dealing with Rune-Tail.

What do you think of it now? I feel like the deck is too full, but I dunno what else to thin out, especially if I replace Felidar Sovereign and Victory's Herald with Sun Titan. I also really like Unmake and Phyrexian Arena, too. I dunno how heavily I want to push black though, since I only have the equivalent of 8 black mana in the deck via Basilica and Barrens. Grand Abolisher is definitely on my list as well. Sadistic Sacrament looks absolutely devious though, even though I don't think I could ever pull off the kicker-- but it would ruin the opponent if I could.

The deck is definitely too full. As a general rule in Magic you should never have more than 60 cards in your deck. There's always an optimal draw in a given situation, and having more than 60 cards dilutes your chance to get the card you need. Cutting down to 60 can be really hard though, especially when there are even more cards you want to try to squeeze into the deck. I'm not that familiar with Soul Sisters so I'm not sure I could really be helpful in figuring out which cards to cut, but you are ridiculously heavy on one-cost creatures, especially since you don't have many ways to help them hit for much damage. I know that's kind of the concept of the deck so maybe there's nothing to be done for it, but it's pretty weird on paper.

EDIT: At the card shop last night, someone had left a stack of cards on the table-- it was a bunch of packs they had opened, took the rares out of, and left the rest behind. The manager said I could take them, and it had a card called Touch of Moonglove in it. This looks like it could be very useful, too-- just attach it to a pawn and either deal extra direct damage or kill a blocking creature and still deal 2 direct damage.

This is another great illustrative card for card advantage. Touch of Moonglove is a bad card for the most part, because it's usually card disadvantageous. Often it comes down to trading two cards (your small creature and Touch of Moonglove) for one opposing card and two life. Usually it would just be better to play a normal removal card because you don't have to also trade one of your creatures, and Touch of Moonglove has no chance of killing an opponent's creature that they keep out of combat. You could get some value out of Touch of Moonglove by targeting a creature that's big enough to survive combat but not big enough to kill the thing it's fighting (Nyxfleece Ram), but for the most part it's just a very inferior removal card with the small upside of two direct damage. How good you think it is will probably depend on how highly you value that damage, but I don't value it very highly.

And yeah, I have no idea how to manage Infect-- the best I can do is hope for a quick kill with my Chalices/Guildmages.

Off the top of my head I want to say your best bet is probably just going nuts with very cheap removal. There are a few kinds of Infect deck, but when they were big the most common one wanted to kill extremely quickly by using Giant Growth-type cards to hit for a ton of poison with your tiny infect creatures in the first couple turns of the game. That kind of strategy is inherently risky because you can just Path To Exile or Dismember their guy in response to the casting of Giant Growth and trade your one removal card for their creature and their powerup spell. If you can pull that off two or so times in a game they'll probably just run out of cards. Slower Infect strategies involving Proliferate and Inkmoth Nexus might be harder to deal with, and are probably a pretty terrible matchup for your deck. I'm not sure those are very common though. Maybe they are.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:05:23 pm by commandercool »
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2016, 06:52:58 pm »
Now that I finally found a local scene I've been playing Weiss Schwarz more. And now I'm looking to build a Maki only LL deck RIP wallet :<

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2016, 07:29:17 pm »
It's been my intent for a whole to get a small local Weiss Schwarz thing going locally, but I haven't really gotten around to it. Partly because I don't want to dedicate another night of the week to gaming. I rarely play though even though I sort of buy cards, so finding a group for it would be nice. My roommate's a huge Haruhi fan so I expect him to get deep into that set, which might be a nice way of kickstarting something.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2016, 07:48:16 pm »
Alright, this is an extremely key concept to understanding what choices to make and what cards are good in Magic. I'll do my best to explain it. It's pretty simple but also kind of tricky to explain.

Card advantage is basically what happens when your cards and your opponent's cards cancel out. If you block their 2/2 with a 2/2 both die and nobody got card advantage. If they Doomblade your creature they traded one card for your one card and nobody got card advantage. But if they Doomblade your guy with a Sunbond on it they spend one of their cards to cancel out two or yours and they got +1 card advantage. If they have ten creatures in play, you have two, and you play Day Of Judgment you get +7 card advantage (+10 for killing 10 of their creatures, -2 for killing your own creatures, and -1 for playing Day Of Judgment). If they have 75 creature tokens in play that were all generated by the same Storm Herd, there are no other creatures in play, and you kill them all with Pyroclasm nobody got card advantage because you still just cancelled their one card with your one card.

A card like Beacon Of Immortality that doesn't cancel out any of your opponent's cards directly is often just straight-up negative card advantage. However, in some situations, like if your opponent has spent three Lightning Bolts targeting your life total already, it can actually become card advantage because you've used it to cancel cards of their. If they're attacking with creatures every turn instead of hitting your life with one-time effects it usually isn't because it doesn't actually deal with the threats, it just slows them down.

So what does that mean practically? If you've ever gotten to a point in the game where you have few or no cards in hand and on the board and your opponent has a bunch more, it's probably because they've been getting better card advantage than you either throughout the game or at one key moment. This means they now have more options and you're at a serious disadvantage. So if you look for opportunities to squeeze out card advantage wherever possible you can have more cards, which means more options, which means you're probably going to win the game. Not definitely, but probably. This applies both to making choices in-game and choosing which cards to put in your deck. If you're playing a card with inherent card disadvantage you'd better have a good reason for it.

Card quality plays a big role too, so it's often worth it to put yourself at card disadvantage to trade several cards that for whatever reason aren't very important right now for one card that matters a lot. But be careful when you do this, because any situation where you're already putting yourself at card disadvantage can be a potential blowout. For example, if your opponent has a 4/4 creature that's about to kill you and you block it with 4 1/1s, they can use any number of different effects to throw off the math (killing one of your blockers, making their creature bigger, even Unsummon on one of your small guys) to keep their creature and make you lose all or most of yours, which puts you at even bigger disadvantage than the calculated trade you were trying to make.

Does my explanation make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense, I think. I'll try to demonstrate my understanding in a moment and you can tell me if I get it or not.

Quote
That sounds like Dragonlord Atarka, who notably can't hit players with his comes-into-play effect (so if your opponent did that they cheated).

This guy illustrates a few points I've tried to make recently. For one thing, he's almost always inherently card advantageous. Since he can usually kill at least one thing when he comes into play, and often several things, and your opponent will probably have to spend at least one card to get rid of him, he can often put you at +1 or even more cards. Also, he does something immediately upon entering play, which is a near-requirement for an expensive creature. Unless he gets countered he's probably going to leave a mark on the game even if he gets removed at the earliest possible moment after he's cast. Unlike Victory's Herald there's little chance of casting him and getting nothing for it.

Atarka, that's the one. Yeah, maybe I misunderstood it-- I don't think he ever attacked me directly with it-- but he did consistently wreck my field with him.

Quote
It's definitely a matchup-dependent card to some degree, and this sounds like a great matchup for it. A deck that relies on big creatures to win will probably have a very hard time dealing with Rune-Tail.

Yeah, it worked really well-- but it mattered not when Atarka came onto the field. Salt was produced.

Quote
The deck is definitely too full. As a general rule in Magic you should never have more than 60 cards in your deck. There's always an optimal draw in a given situation, and having more than 60 cards dilutes your chance to get the card you need. Cutting down to 60 can be really hard though, especially when there are even more cards you want to try to squeeze into the deck. I'm not that familiar with Soul Sisters so I'm not sure I could really be helpful in figuring out which cards to cut, but you are ridiculously heavy on one-cost creatures, especially since you don't have many ways to help them hit for much damage. I know that's kind of the concept of the deck so maybe there's nothing to be done for it, but it's pretty weird on paper.

All right, well. How about this, then? I whittled it down to 60 cards, though I think I may want to still manage to get more Orzhov Charms, Cradles of Vitality, Spears of Heliod, and Sun Titan as well in there, somehow. Not SURE how, but somehow.

I removed, from the previous deck list:
Victory's Herald x2
Felidar Sovereign
Suture Priest x2
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Ajani's Pridemate

Taking what you explained to me about card advantage and getting your mana's worth out of cards, Herald was an easy drop, and Felidar Sovereign won't serve me well unless I'm running a deck specifically tailored to do nothing but blast life sky-high and be able to support Sovereign until the winning upkeep. Suture Priest is a wonderful card, but if we're talking card advantage, it's more or less a more expensive Soul Sister and doesn't make that huge of a difference to the opponent unless I have multiples on the field, which seems to be an uncommon occurrence. Rune-Tail seems to be a low card advantage card, despite being a great enchantment. It doesn't get me any closer to winning, it just helps me stall, which can be useful, not not always. And Ajani's Pridemate is easily blocked. Great card, but takes a while to set up unless I'm in absolutely ideal conditions. That, and Cradle of Vitality can essentially turn any card into a better Pridemate.

Meanwhile, I may have to rethink everything once Sun Titan enters the mix, because he can bring back almost ANY card in my deck, since I'm keeping costs low. So I can keep bringing back Vizkopa or Martyr (which is already a deadly combo between the two of them), or bring back Rune-Tail to help me stall and bring MORE cards back, which results in more healing if I have Sisters on the field.

In addition to that, more Orzhov Charms would not only let me wreck the field, but it can also bring back Martyr, which is always, always a good thing.

Quote
This is another great illustrative card for card advantage. Touch of Moonglove is a bad card for the most part, because it's usually card disadvantageous. Often it comes down to trading two cards (your small creature and Touch of Moonglove) for one opposing card and two life. Usually it would just be better to play a normal removal card because you don't have to also trade one of your creatures, and Touch of Moonglove has no chance of killing an opponent's creature that they keep out of combat. You could get some value out of Touch of Moonglove by targeting a creature that's big enough to survive combat but not big enough to kill the thing it's fighting (Nyxfleece Ram), but for the most part it's just a very inferior removal card with the small upside of two direct damage. How good you think it is will probably depend on how highly you value that damage, but I don't value it very highly.

Aah, I get it. It won't really serve me well without more defensive cards in the deck, otherwise it'd be a waste.


Quote
Off the top of my head I want to say your best bet is probably just going nuts with very cheap removal. There are a few kinds of Infect deck, but when they were big the most common one wanted to kill extremely quickly by using Giant Growth-type cards to hit for a ton of poison with your tiny infect creatures in the first couple turns of the game. That kind of strategy is inherently risky because you can just Path To Exile or Dismember their guy in response to the casting of Giant Growth and trade your one removal card for their creature and their powerup spell. If you can pull that off two or so times in a game they'll probably just run out of cards. Slower Infect strategies involving Proliferate and Inkmoth Nexus might be harder to deal with, and are probably a pretty terrible matchup for your deck. I'm not sure those are very common though. Maybe they are.

Hmm. It may just be a bridge I need to cross once I reach it.




Ultimately, I think I'm tailoring this deck to favor passive direct damage while bolstering my health rather than attacking directly, though it provides options for me to do so via using Pridemate/Cradle+Martyr on something for strong attacks, or Orzhov Charm/Spear of Heliod/Recumbent Bliss for crowd control, and even Elspeth in a pinch, since nothing in the deck has more than 4 power naturally-- so I can wipe the field and just attack directly-- and if I have any lifelink/spirit loop stuff going on, Vizkopa will bring that to a quick end. But the core damage would come from Vizkopa's passive damage (and I can activate it on both my turn and the opponent's, correct? This would help bolster the loss of Suture Priest) and Chalice damage.

Am I grasping this better?
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2016, 08:34:25 pm »
Ultimately, I think I'm tailoring this deck to favor passive direct damage while bolstering my health rather than attacking directly, though it provides options for me to do so via using Pridemate/Cradle+Martyr on something for strong attacks, or Orzhov Charm/Spear of Heliod/Recumbent Bliss for crowd control, and even Elspeth in a pinch, since nothing in the deck has more than 4 power naturally-- so I can wipe the field and just attack directly-- and if I have any lifelink/spirit loop stuff going on, Vizkopa will bring that to a quick end. But the core damage would come from Vizkopa's passive damage (and I can activate it on both my turn and the opponent's, correct? This would help bolster the loss of Suture Priest) and Chalice damage.

Am I grasping this better?

It sounds like you're grasping it, yes.

I'm always a little unsure about how much I like Suture Priest. It sees a fair amount of play in Commander where token strategies are common, so it might be worth keeping all four copies around on your sideboard so you can swap them in if you play against a token-heavy deck. Modern tokens seems like it relies more on making a handful and powering them up than Commander tokens which tries to spew out dozens and dozens of individual creatures, so maybe it wouldn't be as effective there.

It sounds like you've come to the conclusion that Chalice Of Life is your win condition to some degree, and I'm inclined to agree. That sounds like it should work. It definitely has a lot of drawbacks, since it probably won't help you if you're already doing badly, but the payoff is so big that you have to try it. I'm just not sure how many copies is good. Drawing several of them, especially in an opening hand, probably isn't great. But you definitely want one, and I guess two life Chalice Of Deaths in play at once would be like the scariest thing ever, so maybe the full four is the way to go. Worth messing around with.

And yes, you can activate Vizkopa Guildmage on your opponent's turn. You can always use activated effects (an activated effect is formatted "cost: effect" at instant speed unless the card tells you otherwise).
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2016, 09:01:12 pm »
Hmm. It may be worth it to just keep Orzhov Basilica+Plains always open so I can constantly do damage with Vizkopa. It may slow down my rate of using mana, but it would let me play on the offensive to keep drawing cards to prepare for a kill shot with Martyr+Vizkopa.

On an unrelated note, are there cards that allow me to untap tapped artifacts? Because if I could get two Chalice shots off in one turn, that'd be very advantageous.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2016, 09:18:02 pm »
Yes, tons, but most of them are blue. Untapping artifacts is typically part of blue's domain. There are a handful of colorless options though. Off the top of my head Voltaic Key is probably the best fit, with Galvanic Key as an interesting but way less efficient option. Unwinding Clock doesn't cost mana to activate and works better with multiple Chalices (and even better in multiplayer). None of these seem very good for your deck though unfortunately, since they don't do much at all unless you have a Chalice. Technically they work with Spear Of Heliod, just not well since you'd have to have a ton of mana to activate it twice. If you splashed blue you would open yourself up for cards with more general uses, but that's a whole different can of worms.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2016, 09:27:06 pm »
Hmm. I'll have to keep it in mind. After all, blue is my second strongest color right now. Maybe if I had a deck that revolved around artifact damage, it'd be a stronger choice...
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2016, 05:01:22 pm »
So I managed to trade into a copy of Ezuri, Claw of Progress and I'm trying to figure what kind of deck I want to build around him. I'm thinking of focusing heavily on creatures that are hard to block such as flyers/Benthic Infiltrator/Blighted Agent, stuff that's hard to remove like hexproof creatures, and stuff that profits from having a ton of counters on it like Hangarback/Servant of the Scale/Arcbound creatures.

The main thing I need to work on is getting some mana sources together for this.

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2016, 05:10:55 pm »
Are you talking Commander? I like Ezuri a lot in Commander. U/G is very strong if you support it with the right colorless removal. The U/G Ezuri deck primarily wants to have as many utility creatures as possible, especially if they draw you cards. Mulldrifter and Elvish Visionary are perfect, and always lean toward playing your Acidic Slimes and Sakura-Tribe Elders over Naturalize or Rampant Growth and you should be good-ish.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2016, 09:09:16 pm »
Are you talking Commander? I like Ezuri a lot in Commander. U/G is very strong if you support it with the right colorless removal. The U/G Ezuri deck primarily wants to have as many utility creatures as possible, especially if they draw you cards. Mulldrifter and Elvish Visionary are perfect, and always lean toward playing your Acidic Slimes and Sakura-Tribe Elders over Naturalize or Rampant Growth and you should be good-ish.
My Acidic Slime and Sakura-Tribe Elder are in my Mazirek/Meren deck since they synergize better with that, but I could probably put stuff like Wood Elves and Reclamation Sage in the Ezuri deck since they synergize with his ability. What I'm hoping for is a deck which uses utility creatures to accumulate power and then directs it into creatures that are hard to stop or get rid of.

Stuff in my collection that's on the short list to go in. Kind of a mishmash since I only traded for the single instead of getting the preconstructed UB deck:

-Abzan Beastmaster (draws an extra card per turn if I control the strongest creature)
-Benthic Infiltrator (unblockable creature, mills)
-Caustic Caterpillar (acts as a small body and enchantment/artifact removal)
-Gladecover Scout (small hexproof creature)
-Gyre Sage (mana source)
-Halimar Tidecaller (lets me recycle Awaken spells that I want to put in the deck)
-Hangarback Walker (synergizes with Ezuri)
-Hardened Scales (improves effectiveness of Ezuri's ability)
-Lumbering Falls (UG dual land that becomes a hexproof creature)
-Overwhelming Stampede (makes creatures big)
-Slip Through Space (makes a creature unblockable and draws a card)
-Sphinx of the Final Word (just a huge pain to deal with)
-Stampeding Elk Herd (enables trample)
-Plated Crusher (big hexproof creature)
-Reclamation Sage (enchantment/artifact removal)
-Rogue's Passage (makes creatures unblockable)
-Surrak, the Hunt Caller (gives creatures haste)
-Thopter Spy Network (synergizes with Hangarback Walker and mana sources like signets)
-Tuskguard Captain (enables trample)
-Unity of Purpose (really fun tempo effect)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 09:36:33 pm by Tokiko, Ancillary Character »

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2016, 09:37:36 pm »
Acidic Slime and Sakura-Tribe Elder are both sub-$1 cards, it's probably worth hunting down extra copies so you can run them in both.

That's pretty much the game plan in every Ezuri deck I've ever seen. It also might be worth including some "counters matter" stuff like Novijen Sages, Arcbound Reclaimer, Lifeblood Hydra, etc etc etc. There are like a million cards that fit that theme, and many of them can start small enough to trigger Ezuri as well.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Tamer Anode/Cathode

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2016, 09:50:58 pm »
Acidic Slime and Sakura-Tribe Elder are both sub-$1 cards, it's probably worth hunting down extra copies so you can run them in both.

That's pretty much the game plan in every Ezuri deck I've ever seen. It also might be worth including some "counters matter" stuff like Novijen Sages, Arcbound Reclaimer, Lifeblood Hydra, etc etc etc. There are like a million cards that fit that theme, and many of them can start small enough to trigger Ezuri as well.
Would Managorger Hydra be good here? I have a bunch and that "gets a counter whenever a spell is cast" looks like it could get absolutely ludicrous in a multiplayer game

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2016, 09:58:29 pm »
Yeah sure, why not?

I have a similar-ish deck built around Vorel Of The Hull Clade that's probably my most effective Commander deck and I don't run Managorger in that. Space is extremely tight because there are do many compatible creatures, so I really only run creatures that are either high-utility or hard to kill (preferably in the form of a useful death trigger like Lifevlood Hydra or Hooded Hydra). Being huge alone is not really good enough in my opinion.

That said, I've been absolutely wrecked by Managorger Hydra before. It's not a bad card by ANY means, so I say try it. You might find yourself cutting it for something sturdier some day, or being fast and cheap might turn out to be more valuable for Ezuri than it is for Vorel.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.
 

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