Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Technically, if I dial down the white in the deck, I could splash blue and put in Drift of Phantasms like I do in a different deck-- which can be transmuted into any 3-drop. Toss one of those suckers out and I can straight up search my deck for the vital Palladium or Galvanizer Myrs. Who needs deck thinning when you can straight up dig for the card? I also use Taigam's scheming in that other deck, which is basically a scry 5 that lets me reorganize and put unneeded cards in the graveyard.

Indomitable Archangel and Tempered Steel, while great, are not 'vital'. I could drop those and the Gold Myrs for Silver Myrs and Taigam's Scheming and Drift of Phantasms, and drop the Plains for Islands. How does that sound?

[commandercool]

No idea. Worth a try though. If you don't like it you can always change back.

[commandercool]

Commander has been really pissing me off lately. For quite a while my group was pretty stable, but we recently added two extra people and both of them are horrible at Magic, which can be a really bad thing in Commander. For both of them their first reflex every time they see anything that they think might threaten them at any point in the game is just to wipe the board.

Board wipes are obviously really good in Commander, it's kind of a defining feature of the format, but just one player using them incompetently is basically just going to accidentally kingmake for the player who has the best draw engine every single time (and drag every game out to being ridiculously long in the process). And the player who has the best draw engine is usually blue, and blue is already the best color by a mile because the Commander rules team favors it and refuses to ban degenerate blue cards because they want blue to be better than everything else.

To make matters worse, because there's so much going on in Commander it's easy for bad players to assume that they're losing because of other people's decisions, which means they never learn anything. I wish I could just kick these two new players out of the group, but that's not possible, so I guess Commander is just going to be slow and lopsided until they figure out what they're doing wrong or I can figure out how to exploit their consistent bad decisions.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Commander has been really pissing me off lately. For quite a while my group was pretty stable, but we recently added two extra people and both of them are horrible at Magic, which can be a really bad thing in Commander. For both of them their first reflex every time they see anything that they think might threaten them at any point in the game is just to wipe the board.

Blood Artist/Falkenrath Noble/Zulaport Cutthroat. If a lot of things are going to die, you should at least profit off of it.

[commandercool]

I do run Blood Artist in the deck I was playing tonight, but I never drew it.  I think I have an extra Zulaport Cutthroat somewhere I can add.

A significant part of that deck (my Mazirek deck) is creatures with death triggers. I went through Hooded Hydra, Symbiotic Wurm, that guy who makes an Eldrazi Scion when something dies, and Fresh Meat, but the board wiped so often that I only get two attacks in totaling like a dozen damage in the entire first game. It's not like I'm not building my decks to be durable, but fucking christ, there's a certain level that's just impossible to keep up with. I think I just need to put every Blood Artist and Massacre Wurm effect I can find in every deck at this point.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

So I played the white/red Myr deck at FNM last night. Won two rounds; one of them ended up in a 30 minute lecture about why infinite combos are cheap and boring and how I'm awful for using them.

Clearly I must be doing something right.


That said, it's still too slow, so I've been working on implementing better combos and card draw into the deck. After going on kiiiind of an unreasonable shopping spree, this is what I have come up with. I have no idea how to build this; it's just way too many cards that I like too much and I don't know what to main/side/drop. orz

[commandercool]

I do kind of think they're boring, but that's a personal preference. If infinite combos are working correctly they don't really interact with your opponent that much, which means you're basically doing the same things every game regardless of what you're playing against, and I find that that becomes boring really quickly. But if you like doing it, fair enough. I know a lot of people do.

[Yukarin]

If you have a Magic card on hand, flip it over and connect the five colored dots in the middle of the card. The lines will form a pentagram that explains the relationships between the colors. Adjacent colors on the pentagram are allies and tend to work well together and cover each-other's weaknesses. The colors that aren't adjacent which form the star of the pentagram are enemies and tend to have stranger (although still viable) results when combined.

....

THIS BLEW MY MIND

My god everything makes so much sense now.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I do kind of think they're boring, but that's a personal preference. If infinite combos are working correctly they don't really interact with your opponent that much, which means you're basically doing the same things every game regardless of what you're playing against, and I find that that becomes boring really quickly. But if you like doing it, fair enough. I know a lot of people do.

It's not the main point of the deck, though-- just a means to an end. The main point of the deck is and always will be making an overwhelming myr army.

[Firestorm29]

Hey there Matsuri, can't help to have noticed a kindred spirit in the massive Myr army front. 

Myr Servitor (4)
Perilous Myr (2)
Gold Myr (2)
Hovermyr (3)
Myr Retriever (2)
Myrsmith (2)
Myr Galvanizer (3)
Palladium Myr (3)
Shimmer Myr (2)
Myr Propagator (2)
Lodestone Myr (1)
Myr Battlesphere (1)

Genesis Chamber (1)
Bladed Pinions (2)
Semblance Anvil (1)
Myr Reservoir (1)
Mirrorworks (1)
Myr Turbine (1)
Conjurer's Closet (1)

Oblivion Ring (3)
Tempered Steel (1)
Growing Ranks (1)
Detention Sphere (1)
Touch of the Eternal (1)

Stoic Rebuttal(4)
Counterbore (1)

Elspeth Tirel (Scars of Mirrodin) (1)
Tezzeret the Seeker (1)

Island (10)
Plains (10)
Esper Panorama (1)
Crystal Vein (1)

If I did my count right, I think I'm at 61. Kinda want to throw in a Bonds of Quicksilver, but not sure if I need it. I haven't done too many one on ones with this deck so I can't claim it's been as successful as yours, but I had more focus about trying to feature multiple kinds of Myrs and have them synergize, amass numbers, and some control spells to try and keep my opponent from trying to trip my tokens and such. I do have fun with this deck, maybe it might help give you some ideas if you want to try and switch up a few things.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Been a while since I've posted anything here.

I've kind of shifted away from using Myrs (even though my Myr deck is one of my main decks) and have picked up Artifact Affinity instead-- and my deck is more or less as good as it is going to get without me dropping capital-M Money on Arcbound Ravagers, Steel Overseers, Mox Opals, and Inkmoth/Blinkmoth Nexus cards. And so far it's been treating me pretty well! I ended up in 13th out of 31 last FNM, which is really high for me-- and out of four rounds, I went 1/2, 2/1, 1/2, and 2/0-- and most of my losses were very close games.

The deck is pretty standard as far as affinity goes though:
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
4 Signal Pest
4 Etched Champion
3 Frogmite
2 Myr Enforcer
1 Lodestone Myr

4 Cranial Plating
4 Tempered Steel
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Thoughtcast
2 Ensoul Artifact

4 Seachrome Coast
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
3 Plains

Simple, straightforward, and fast as hell. Getting a Vault Skirge with Ensoul Artifact all set on turn 2 is the best feeling. It's also fun to use Ghost Quarter, especially against people who run really complex land setups, because they don't know if I'm going to use it to remove their lands or target myself so I can quickly grab an Island for Ensoul Artifact/Thoughtcast or a Plains for Tempered Steel. I can target Darksteel Citadel for a free tradeoff in my own case, since it cannot be destroyed. So much fun.

I also picked up the Blessed vs. Cursed deck sets, and I'm thinking it may be fun to run a Zombie deck sometime. The Cursed deck looks fun, but needs a lot of modification, I feel.

[commandercool]

Yeah that looks pretty solid. Thoughtcast is a terrifying card. It's pretty tough to come back from an opponent resolving two of those early on.

I used to run a zombie decks years ago that had nothing but zombie lords as creatures (lords being creatures that give other creatures of their type +1/+1). It was slow and weak, but it was a lot of fun. And this was before we had Gravecrawler. Similarly to angels, I'd say expect to see some new zombie support in the upcoming set.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Oh my god I just found the best card ever

It's so TRUE though. I like how WotC is so aware of the most annoying habit ever. I would say "can't you hold your cards like a regular person", but practically everyone does it and ughhhhhhhhh

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

I can't tell if the people in my area just don't do the flicking thing or I've somehow tuned it out at this point. Probably the former because I am awful at tuning things out.

I think zombies are going to be huge in the next little while just because the recently-announced Relentless Dead is so ridiculous and I love it. There's a lot of other good enablers like Kalitas. Personally I want to see where vampires/white-black lifedrain goes just because there was so much good stuff for it in Battle/Oath and there's so many good cards that have been revealed for it in the new set already.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Whatever breaks the monotony with Eldrazi, yo. (pls ban temple)

[commandercool]

Every day that passes without Temple and Eye being banned is a surprise to me. Modern is usually relatively quick on the uptake with this stuff.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Every day that passes without Temple and Eye being banned is a surprise to me. Modern is usually relatively quick on the uptake with this stuff.

I wish they would. What were they even thinking, allowing both of those at once? Like yep I sure do like seeing 4-drops get summoned on turn 2 <_<;

(I mean, I can technically do that too, but the difference is mine is Frogmite compared to fucking Thought-Knot Seer <_______< )

I can't tell if the people in my area just don't do the flicking thing or I've somehow tuned it out at this point. Probably the former because I am awful at tuning things out.

It's this annoying shit here.

They claim that they're "shuffling their hand", but honestly it's just a bad habit that turns into a nervous tic and it's annoying as hell.

You wanna know how I keep my opponent from reading my hand? I fan 'em out while it's my turn, memorize what I have, and snap them shut when I'm done, so it looks like I'm holding one card. No annoying flippy snappy shit, no constant time wasting.

[commandercool]

You wanna know how I keep my opponent from reading my hand? I fan 'em out while it's my turn, memorize what I have, and snap them shut when I'm done, so it looks like I'm holding one card. No annoying flippy snappy shit, no constant time wasting.

I keep my hand fanned out at all times and lay it down face-down when I'm not using it. I get really tired of asking everyone how many cards they have in hand ten separate times during every Commander game. Granted it's probably easier to mentally track with only two players.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Every day that passes without Temple and Eye being banned is a surprise to me. Modern is usually relatively quick on the uptake with this stuff.

It's a surprise to me too because the Eldrazi deck is capable of winning on turn 2 with a perfect opening hand and Modern generally bans anything capable of winning before turn 4

I think a lot could have been done to curb the deck if Eldrazi Mimic was costed as 1C rather than 2 so it couldn't have been cast for free on turn 1, but it's too late to fix that now

[MatsuriSakuragi]

This dude had me puzzled and jammed my every movement for the first five turns. I managed to start stalling with some spirits, knowing he could kill anything I could attack with. But he also knew I had him outnumbered and would kill whatever hurts me with Heliod. Then he put down Ajani and slowly built him up. The smarter idea would have been to make all of his stuff flying and double strike as soon as he put it down, because I had 6 life at the time and had no way of managing all the damage I would have taken. But instead, he stalled Ajani up to 8. On the turn before, I put Suture Priest down and thought "oh, he couldn't be that complacent, could he?"

He was.

He had 24 life, and put down 24 4/4 Cat Soldiers. Suture Priest did 1 damage for each one summoned.

Oops.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Full preview for the next MtG set is up.

There's a lot I'm looking forward to in this set, in particular Pious Evangel, Diregraf Colossus, and Relentless Dead.

[commandercool]

As a Commander-only player, these are the highlights from my perspective:

-Westvale Abbey
This card seems almost horrifyingly good in Commander. Sacrificing it in response to a board wipe is amazing in any deck that runs tokens.

-Descend Upon The Sinful
The similarities to Sunblast Angel make it seem good. Unlike Sunblast Angel it hits your stuff, but it's also guaranteed to kill everything, and I appreciate that it's not a creature so it's harder to loop into play a bunch of times.

-Nahiri's Machinations
Immunity to your own board wipes and the ability to fuck up combat for anyone seems solid, although red/white is a relatively uncommon color combination in Commander even in tricolor decks.

-Confirm Suspicions
Not sure how good this is exactly, and you'd probably rather have Dismiss if your board position isn't already good, but if it is there aren't many better counterspells.

-Epiphany at the Drownyard
Fact or Fiction number two is great, and this has the potential to be much scarier. It probably won't be since you've got to get pretty big before it's even tied and you probably won't cast it for less very often, but you've got the option. Still totally worth it at four mana even if it is smaller.

-Behold the Beyond
Probably much less good than it looks because people will tend to just kill you if you resolve it, but if you're already on top is should seal the deal most of the time. It's expensive enough that you probably won't be able to cast it and win in the same turn very often, but then again black is the king of huge mana so maybe you will.

-Seasons Past
This is the big one I think. It does a ton of shit and doesn't even exile itself so if you return a tutor you can just go get it again. It's technically an infinite combo enabler with a Time Warp, a tutor, and enough mana. And it might even be less hazardous to play than Behold the Beyond because your opponents can see what you get so there are fewer scary unknown variables. Then again that could make it much more dangerous if you're going for crazy power plays.

-Ulvenwald Hydra
A 7/7+ second Temple of the False God? Yes please.

-Anguished Unmaking
Probably my favorite card in the set. Unfortunately it's probably going to be expensive. It pretty much does everything.

-Haunted Cloak
Chariot of Victory is relatively popular in Commander, and this seems slightly better to me.

-Magnifying Glass
We've gotten a lot of solid mana rocks lately, but the draw-averse colors probably really want this.


A lot of the set is surprisingly niche since Madness probably isn't that relevant in most decks. Gives some interesting build-around options for any commander that happens to want you to discard for an activation or something though. A lot of the power in the set is in two-drop creatures and few of them seem relevant in Commander, but hopefully that means I can just skip over anything that might be too expensive.

Also really looking forward to playing sealed. Every rare is interesting.

On another note, Bearer of Overwhelming Truths has one of my favorite pieces of art ever. I would love a playmat of that.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Nahiri's Machinations + Odric = rofl full team indestructible

I am liking this expansion. I hope it leads to people branching away from fucking Eldrazi 24/7. And yeah, all the Rares seem useful, unlike in Gatewatch where most of them suck.

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

As a Commander-only player, these are the highlights from my perspective:

Personally the cards that interest me the most from a Commander perspective are:

-Eerie Interlude: Blink out of a boardwipe and/or repeat your enter the battlefield triggers.
-Odric, Lunarch Marshal: That ability is a lot of text but "give a keyword on one creature to all creatures" is great for a lot of white or white-green decks.
-Pious Evangel/Wayward Disciple: Soul Warden on one side and Blood Artist on the other. I see this going in every BW lifegain deck ever from now on (and I want to build a Karlov/Ayli one simply for this card)
-Second Harvest: It's a token doubler. That says it all.
-Sorin, Grim Nemesis: profit off your own lifegain or utterly destroy another lifegain player, sounds good to me

[commandercool]

Personally the cards that interest me the most from a Commander perspective are:

-Eerie Interlude: Blink out of a boardwipe and/or repeat your enter the battlefield triggers.
-Odric, Lunarch Marshal: That ability is a lot of text but "give a keyword on one creature to all creatures" is great for a lot of white or white-green decks.
-Pious Evangel/Wayward Disciple: Soul Warden on one side and Blood Artist on the other. I see this going in every BW lifegain deck ever from now on (and I want to build a Karlov/Ayli one simply for this card)
-Second Harvest: It's a token doubler. That says it all.
-Sorin, Grim Nemesis: profit off your own lifegain or utterly destroy another lifegain player, sounds good to me

Oh god I forgot about Eerie Interlude because it's been available for a while. It is the best card in the set, for sure.

[OverlordChirei]

mfw odric doesn't work with myriad

[commandercool]

On another note, Bearer of Overwhelming Truths has one of my favorite pieces of art ever. I would love a playmat of that.

Looks like Wizards is in agreement with me to at least some degree. I popped in to a local store today and they had received their Innistrad promo kit, which had a bunch of pop-up cardboard lantern spider things from this piece in it. Playmat now pleeeeease!

[Tamer Anode/Cathode]

Looks like Wizards is in agreement with me to at least some degree. I popped in to a local store today and they had received their Innistrad promo kit, which had a bunch of pop-up cardboard lantern spider things from this piece in it. Playmat now pleeeeease!

They've really stepped up their prerelease promotion lately, I wish I could have gotten my hands on one of those lifesize hedrons from the BFZ prerelease.

mfw odric doesn't work with myriad

This is probably to be expected since the official stance is "we don't refer to stuff from Commander sets in non-Commander sets"

Also Myriad is OP enough as it is on single creatures. Consider Blade of Selves equipped to a Blighted Agent or Blightsteel Colossus (or pretty much anything with infect, I guess)

[commandercool]

I think it's less of a "don't refer to summer casual products" thing and more that he only cares about evergreen keywords. Same reason he can't grant Wither, Bushido, Renown etc. Would have been pretty weird if he listed a smattering of things that aren't in his set.

As for Myriad, the true horror of it is combined with EtB effects. Swing with an Eternal Witness, Mulldrifter, Acidic Slime, or similar holding a Blade of Selves and basically win on the spot.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Just imagine if he could copy unblockable and infect :V