Topic: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating  (Read 52441 times)

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #660 on: April 13, 2017, 04:04:20 am »
We have quite a bit of interactions between Yukari and Reimu, but do we know what the dynamic is between Yukari and Marisa? Or just in general, I'm curious about what Yukari thinks of her and/or how she might interact with her.
Related, what characters are Yukari the most friendly or most likely to get along with in the rest of the touhou cast?
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #661 on: April 13, 2017, 04:35:13 am »
Yukari teases Marisa. Pretty simlar to her relationship with Reimu.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #662 on: April 14, 2017, 02:35:08 pm »
Why do people unfamiliar with Touhou keep associating fan games with the series' spin-offs? It really blows my mind that they never google or double-check the game/series they are watching, buying or reviewing? Over the past weeks, I have seen multiple (p)reviews of Genso Wanderer claiming that they expect a shmup from this series but a got a "spin-off" instead. Granted, it is not all of them, but it is still a large majority nonetheless.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:57:58 pm by Kageshirou »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #663 on: April 14, 2017, 03:34:17 pm »
Because most people don't expect fan games to get official releases instead of main line games, or at least official spin-offs.  Most folks aren't used to the doujin scene, let alone alone how ZUN's license works. They're used to tightly controlled copyrights and stuff. To be fair? In practically every other case, it's correct, so you can see why people would assume it here.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #664 on: April 15, 2017, 05:07:20 pm »
So this guy in my office has a USB controller, and just for fun I've been going through the series with it.

Games early in the series, like IN and MoF, are pretty unwieldy. DDC is a bit smoother. But LoLK? It's like this game was made for a controller rather than keyboard.

Weirdest of all, even though I feel as though I have less control, I'm actually scoring better.

This makes me wonder: were any or all these games made particularly for a controller? If I recall ZUN plays the games himself with a pad, I think. I imagine he programs these games with both keyboard and controller in mind, given the config settings. Just seems some of these games operate much better with one than the other. Or, it could be just a matter of me getting more used to using a controller. I dunno, I'm just curious.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #665 on: April 15, 2017, 06:18:51 pm »
You're just getting used to it. I've posted about this before, but japanese games outside of VNs are almost universally made and tested with the assumption that the player will use a controller. Keyboard controls in them were meant for emergencies, that's why they stick with the old arrows + ZXC control scheme from the early 80s and very few japanese games allow you to remap keyboard controls at all, even commercial games.

I would recommend staying away from Xbox gamepads if you plan to buy your own controller. For Touhou, the most popular d-pad styles are the Playstation design (precision) and the Sega Saturn design (speed and comfort).

Here's what you can do with a DualShock 3, which has a somewhat less sensitive d-pad compared to previous designs: http://i.imgur.com/VdzaPZy.png

« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 09:45:51 pm by Romantique Tp »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #666 on: April 15, 2017, 10:06:20 pm »
You're just getting used to it. I've posted about this before, but japanese games outside of VNs are almost universally made and tested with the assumption that the player will use a controller. Keyboard controls in them were meant for emergencies, that's why they stick with the old arrows + ZXC control scheme from the early 80s and very few japanese games allow you to remap keyboard controls at all, even commercial games.

I would recommend staying away from Xbox gamepads if you plan to buy your own controller. For Touhou, the most popular d-pad styles are the Playstation design (precision) and the Sega Saturn design (speed and comfort).

Here's what you can do with a DualShock 3, which has a somewhat less sensitive d-pad compared to previous designs: http://i.imgur.com/VdzaPZy.png

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm still putting down the controller and switching to keyboard for some spellcards but for the most part it's quite a difference.

And this is the controller in question. It's very precise. Definitely prefer it for graze-intensive games like LoLK.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #667 on: April 16, 2017, 12:08:59 am »
I've been getting some pretty conflicting information depending on who I ask/where I read.

In DDC, is it Sakuya's knives that are possessed, or is it some totally separate sword that she found? It seems like the knives would make more sense, so I'm wondering if there was some mistranslation or something, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

(I've been under the impression it was a separate sword until I really looked at it recently.)
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #668 on: April 19, 2017, 05:49:21 pm »
Does Yuyuko's death manipulation ability work on Gods, lunarians and yamas? Or a better question would be : Other than the immortals, who does the ability not work on?

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #669 on: April 19, 2017, 06:33:01 pm »
Lunarians are more or less just fancy humans, so I'd assume it works on them. They're not totally free from impurity, they have a tiny amount, so they naturally die *eventually*, it just takes a looooooong time.

Gods and youkai are stated to be incredibly similar species (the main difference between them being youkai are feared where gods are worshipped). Since Yuyuko's ability is explicitly stated to work on youkai, I would assume it can work on gods too.

As for the Yama, I have no idea how they work, we don't have much information on them. However, if they can eventually die themselves I would assume Yuyuko can kill them.

This is all speculation, of course. There's nothing official saying that she can or can't kill these things afaik.

The reason she can't kill people of hourai is because they're immune to change. You can't kill them because death would be a change. You can't remove their change immunity, because that would be a change. They can never be altered in any way. At least, in theory.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #670 on: April 19, 2017, 08:43:21 pm »
But can Yuyuko kill a meme?

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #671 on: April 19, 2017, 09:12:39 pm »
I've been getting some pretty conflicting information depending on who I ask/where I read.

In DDC, is it Sakuya's knives that are possessed, or is it some totally separate sword that she found? It seems like the knives would make more sense, so I'm wondering if there was some mistranslation or something, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

(I've been under the impression it was a separate sword until I really looked at it recently.)

It's her own knives. It's slightly relevant that these are the characters' own personal possessions that have been used with love and care and all that.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #672 on: April 19, 2017, 09:36:32 pm »
Lunarians are more or less just fancy humans, so I'd assume it works on them. They're not totally free from impurity, they have a tiny amount, so they naturally die *eventually*, it just takes a looooooong time.

Gods and youkai are stated to be incredibly similar species (the main difference between them being youkai are feared where gods are worshipped). Since Yuyuko's ability is explicitly stated to work on youkai, I would assume it can work on gods too.

As for the Yama, I have no idea how they work, we don't have much information on them. However, if they can eventually die themselves I would assume Yuyuko can kill them.

This is all speculation, of course. There's nothing official saying that she can or can't kill these things afaik.

The reason she can't kill people of hourai is because they're immune to change. You can't kill them because death would be a change. You can't remove their change immunity, because that would be a change. They can never be altered in any way. At least, in theory.

Yamas are gods of judgment, so if it can be done on a god, it can be done on them.  I don't see it working on gods too well myself but once again, just my opinion.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #673 on: April 19, 2017, 10:20:54 pm »
It's her own knives. It's slightly relevant that these are the characters' own personal possessions that have been used with love and care and all that.
its stated in game when you are about to chose Sakuya it says that how she got the bewitched knives is mystery even to her and in the extra it says that they actually belonged Shinmyoumaru so it wasn't Sakuya's knives being possessed, also in Sakuya's A stage6 Shinmyoumaru says that the knives were an experiment she made. ( at least that's what i have read from the wiki).

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #674 on: April 20, 2017, 06:41:39 am »
I noticed the DDC translation does need some revision in general, so I might work on that, but this in particular isn't a misinterpretation. In a couple instances it's written a bit ambiguously but 何処で手に入れたかは彼女にも判らなかった is pretty clear-cut. They're indeed knives Shinmyoumaru enchanted. How one (or several) ended up with Sakuya is a mystery, of course.

Importantly, what was pointed out to me (and I really should have noticed earlier) is that Shinmyoumaru's Spell Card 「Bewitched Sword "Shining Needle Sword" 」 are supposed to be made up of the same "Silver Blade"s Sakuya is using. Note the bullet pattern and it should be immediately obvious. The "Bewitched Sword" part is also the 妖剣 that Sakuya's weapon is referred to as.

I think the main issue here is that it's kind of stupid for Reimu's gohei and Marisa's Hakkero to be enchanted but Sakuya's knives are somehow not hers for some reason. Why write in that they were Shinmyoumaru's blades? It's an unnecessary step with exactly the same outcome. That is, without the fact that she also uses these weapons against you. That's the key here imo. (I still think it's a pretty unnecessary choice though)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 07:08:07 am by Drake »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #675 on: April 20, 2017, 07:40:53 am »
I think the main issue here is that it's kind of stupid for Reimu's gohei and Marisa's Hakkero to be enchanted but Sakuya's knives are somehow not hers for some reason. Why write in that they were Shinmyoumaru's blades? It's an unnecessary step with exactly the same outcome. That is, without the fact that she also uses these weapons against you. That's the key here imo. (I still think it's a pretty unnecessary choice though)

Reimu's gohei and Marisa's hakkero are magical tools, so that makes them easy to enchant/corrupt, probably. Sakuya uses plain old silver knives, though, so she needed to have something magical to be affected as well. (Interestingly, that might hint at her being a knife collector.)
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #676 on: April 20, 2017, 09:13:26 am »
Alternately, Reimu uses one gohei, and Marisa uses one mini-hakkero. Sakuya, on the other hand, uses a buttload of fungible knives. And she had been retired for a good while after that. So maybe she just didn't make the connection with them needed to cause the whole animating thing?

This assumes, of course, that Reimu doesn't just go through goheis like potato chips, but I think it's safe to assume she'd at least stick with one until it breaks.


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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #677 on: April 26, 2017, 05:41:32 am »
I have been thinking about a possible argument that a detractor might make to say that people have been giving ZUN too much credit regarding his games.


"ZUN is unilateral game developer. He only makes games after games for his own story. He doesn't care about fan feedbacks. He doesn't even bother to fix his bugs in the game, like in DS 12-6 and MoF Marisa B. It ruins the experience of a game. However, he says lame excuse like he would rather make new thing rather than fixing the old one. That's how much he care about people who take their time to buy and indulge in his game. You pay him money to get a game with bug. Suppose we got a western Touhou release, we would get the same games with bug anyway because they are old games. Why should we care about his game if that is the case?"


I wonder how people would refute this claim because I think it is true to a certain extent, not because I made it up but because that is what I have seen on many forums like Steam and shmup site.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #678 on: April 26, 2017, 06:37:05 am »
Touhou is still a doujin work. Doujin has always been primarily about making the things that you want to make, any profit being just a nice bonus.

I also think that the unfixed bugs besides DS 12-6 could be considered fairly minor, even if you compare the series to commercial games.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #679 on: April 26, 2017, 06:41:52 am »
There's a big flaw in assuming that ZUN's stance of wanting to create new things rather than go back to what he's already done also refers to bugfixing. Anyone who pays attention enough to know this philosophy should be aware that he's talking about dealing with old material in a technical sense in order to essentially release the same thing again. He doesn't want to just rehash content. This is why instead of only releasing ULiL for PS4 as-is we got bonus content, why he doesn't want to port his own games to PS4, and yes, this is probably at least part of the reason why we don't see much for digital releases. This accusation implies the philosophy is about laziness or something, when it's actually about not wanting to spend his time doing non-creative, dreary technical work for little to no gain, especially when he can instead use that time to do something else.

Claiming that DS 12-6 or MoF MarisaB are game-ruining is being completely dishonest. They are clearly not game-ruining; one due to the already reset-heavy nature of DS alongside it being only one of the Scenes at the end of the game, that doesn't even need to be completed outside of 100% clears; the other because you can easily avoid it and it's an advantageous bug, where at worst a replay is disqualified on a leaderboard because the person was actively abusing the bug. If these are the worst examples of bugs needing to be fixed they barely have an argument. If these were fixed, what ammo would they have? Go bother Bethesda for christ's sake.

That being said, it's also just factually incorrect that he doesn't have patches. EoSD is v1.02h, PCB is 1.00b, IN is 1.00d, UFO is 1.00b, TD is 1.00c, DDC is 1.00b, LoLK is 1.00b. Those for UFO, DDC, and LoLK fixed crashes, and TD fixed an important bug with Trance.
Why didn't he patch those two specific bugs that aren't even that bad? Who knows, maybe because they just aren't that bad. It honestly just sounds like an excuse to complain as a cover for an underlying more selfish reason. If the games were released in the west, I agree we likely wouldn't see any extra bugfixes, but mostly because if they really needed to be fixed they would have been already. Asking "why should we care about his games" as though minor bugs somehow invalidate a game's existence is just really stupid and something I would absolutely expect to come from some shitter on Steam.

As for not caring about "fan feedback", I'm not even sure what that means. Feedback about mechanics? Difficulty? Bugs? Story? Music? Characters? It's his work. Bug reports are about the only thing he should care about, really.

This isn't to say that ZUN is a holy god that can do no wrong and his philosophy is perfect. It obviously isn't. But this sort of criticism of "he doesn't care" feels totally illegitimate to me.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 06:47:09 am by Drake »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #680 on: April 26, 2017, 07:14:39 am »
tl;dr "The games are still awesome, bugs or no bugs. Also, stop being such an entitled little [REDACTED]"
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #681 on: April 26, 2017, 07:30:37 am »
As for not caring about "fan feedback", I'm not even sure what that means. Feedback about mechanics? Difficulty? Bugs? Story? Music? Characters? It's his work. Bug reports are about the only thing he should care about, really.

This isn't to say that ZUN is a holy god that can do no wrong and his philosophy is perfect. It obviously isn't. But this sort of criticism of "he doesn't care" feels totally illegitimate to me.

Even then, to a certain degree, it's not like he'd be unjustified about not caring about certain things. With so many elements of the series, it makes sense that he'd forget about some of that stuff or just stop caring. Outside of the actual games, there's so many characters so it would make sense that he'd stop paying attention to many of them. I like to joke that if you asked him why Keine never shows up in FS (outside of rare cameos), his answer would be "Who?" but on a more serious level, there's many reasons why she doesn't and one of them could be he's just not interested about bringing her back. It's indeed his work and didn't he, at some point say that he'd still work on making games even if people stopped playing them and/or stopped paying attention to them too? I don't have any source about that but I'm pretty sure I read that at some point.

There's of course many ways one could legitimately criticize the series but that's not really what the series is all about. A lot of appeal of the series related to the games to some people, or at least I think is that, ZUN is very passionate about what he does and all the work he puts into his work is very appealing in many reasons and there's also the fact that he's working on his works on his own.

It's up to the fans to decide how they feel about flaws, whether minor or major. While Touhou has a special fanbase in many ways, it doesn't change the fact that people will have issues in one way or another. It's ultimately up to each people to decide to they feel about what they think are flaws. On the other hand, judging by how a good chunk of the fanbase is still very loyal, I think it shows they don't worry too much about these sorts of things. Besides, Touhou has so many ways to appeal to people whether it's the games, music and the plethora of fan works.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 07:33:40 am by Jeremie »
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #682 on: April 26, 2017, 09:58:43 am »
Ah, I see! So, ZUN actually go against the mindset of most company today that ranges from selling the same stuff over and over *looking at you, Capcom and your Megaman collection* and leaving the game buggy *Ah..., Fallout 4 and Mafia 3*


Yeah, you are right. I can't think of any other bug in the game. I only bring up those two bugs because they are the only two prominent ones that detractors might use as an argument cuz I believe that they will complain only because they see other shmup as bug-free and immediately deduce any game with bug as bad.

As for not caring about "fan feedback", I'm not even sure what that means. Feedback about mechanics? Difficulty? Bugs? Story? Music? Characters? It's his work. Bug reports are about the only thing he should care about, really.

It's not much of a fan feedback, but rather, like developers' participation with their fans outside of releasing games. There are two things that most game developers/companies do and I guess people like it?

First, I think people would complain that, aside from showing game demo image and releasing a game, ZUN never holds a contest/poll, or tease fans about the direction where the next game should go to raise people's interest i.e. "I wonder what if there was a civil war in Gensokyo." That's what Ed Boon from Netherrealm Studios does all the time with Mortal Kombat X and Injustice. Sega also frequently chat with their fans on Twitter everything about Sonic, from fan arts to the upcoming game.

For the second one, I mean like "ZUN never listens to fans wanting Mima back so Touhou sucks!"  I figure people would complain about this because for example, Netherrealm Studio listens to fan request for Alien in Kombat pack 2 or Capcom finally put X in MvC infinite. Fans rejoice!

Yeah..., Those are what I mean about feedback.


Off-topic: Even though I brought Netherrealm Studios Studios as an example, I actually hate them since the release of XL. They actually toy with their fans like they were nothing. Ed Boon once teased about Fujin, Rain, MK story pack and Kombat Pack 3 for countless times to raise fans' interests, and guess what happens now. Those never become true. That's when I cut the cord and abandon MK and all games developed by them entirely. I can feel that they think of fans as their play things.

This is what I learnt from this mess: Do not outright tease and troll your fans of your false upcoming contents to the point that they should be expecting the real thing only for them to get nothing at all.

I'm actually grateful that ZUN does neither of the above because wayyy too many companies nowadays love to play with people's desire for their own profit while ZUN doesn't outright say or promise anything regarding fan demands.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 10:05:41 am by Kageshirou »

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #683 on: April 27, 2017, 11:16:27 am »
If I'm understanding this tweet from IOSYS correctly, they're going to be at Reitaisai? Weren't they barred from being there? What's the real story with that anyway?

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #684 on: April 27, 2017, 12:21:54 pm »
This is the first I've heard of this supposed banning.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #685 on: April 27, 2017, 12:23:51 pm »
This is the first I've heard of this supposed banning.

Yeah I have no firsthand sources for this. I only remember "talk" that they got too big or too commercial or something to qualify as doujin anymore? I dunno, I think I'm confusing a couple different stories here maybe.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #686 on: April 29, 2017, 12:23:03 am »
But can Yuyuko kill a meme?

She can invite it to die. Whether or not it wants to die is another matter.
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #687 on: May 01, 2017, 12:42:41 pm »
The "buttons" on lunar rabbits' ears are part of their uniforms, right?  You know, like the ones on Reisen that made people think her ears are fake.  I remember seeing it in an official work before, but which one?
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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #688 on: May 01, 2017, 03:03:28 pm »
I don't recall it ever being directly referenced, but her not having them in LoLK, while giving Seiran an ear buckle, seems like a conscious choice to me.

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Re: Miscellaneous Questions 6: The Questionating
« Reply #689 on: May 01, 2017, 05:33:50 pm »
I don't recall it ever being directly referenced, but her not having them in LoLK, while giving Seiran an ear buckle, seems like a conscious choice to me.

This makes me think those are actually radio transmitters and the whole telepathy deal is a lie.
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