Author Topic: Touhou 15 「東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom」 Patch 1.00b released  (Read 216096 times)

... Maybe ZUN simply hasn't given it all that much thought? He might be too busy drinking beer and thinking of what to create for his next games than to flesh out all of the nitty gritty details of "every" single Touhou and how they precisely operate. While all the while we nerd-lings debate how Hell fairy's can bring oxygen to the moon and how mystical moon people can age like humans or not.

Lets ask the big question: Does a game series about pretty girls who shoot millions of bullets at each other in complicated and expressive patterns really warrant such debate into the complicated mechanics of it all? Perhaps since ZUN does go into finer details in his print works about how his fictional universe works then maybe debate is warranted but still... it's a shooting game series about cute girls.

...No I'm not trolling. I think the possibility of ZUN not caring that much for his series lore is a possibility to consider. 

Drake

  • *
Perhaps since ZUN does go into finer details in his print works about how his fictional universe works then maybe
son let me tell you about touhou

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
I dunno, the written works show ZUN clearly thinks some of this stuff out an awful lot.

I do think stuff like fairies=oxygen is just as simple as "fairies bring life so the air is breathable because fairies", though, magic is as magic does.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

kevin1127

  • 古明地こいし is cute and beautiful!!
What argument/discussion did I miss?

... Maybe ZUN simply hasn't given it all that much thought? He might be too busy drinking beer and thinking of what to create for his next games than to flesh out all of the nitty gritty details of "every" single Touhou and how they precisely operate. While all the while we nerd-lings debate how Hell fairy's can bring oxygen to the moon and how mystical moon people can age like humans or not.

Lets ask the big question: Does a game series about pretty girls who shoot millions of bullets at each other in complicated and expressive patterns really warrant such debate into the complicated mechanics of it all? Perhaps since ZUN does go into finer details in his print works about how his fictional universe works then maybe debate is warranted but still... it's a shooting game series about cute girls.

...No I'm not trolling. I think the possibility of ZUN not caring that much for his series lore is a possibility to consider.

Do you really want to know the amount of thought that ZUN puts into the lore of his games?  THIS is ZUN's explanation for Flower of Phantasmagoria's plot where a flower "festival" happens every 60 years.

Quote from: ZUN's writing, "A Flower Blooming Violet Every 60 Years
"Good guess. The first of these classes is made up by the sun, the moon, and the stars. The sun hopelessly fascinates everyone to it, and has so much pride that its presence makes the moon and stars disappear. The way the moon changes its shape throughout its phases indicates a cooperative, indecisive personality. And the stars show a very uncooperative nature with all their different forms, from the unmoving north star, to the wandering planets, to comets that disappear in the blink of an eye. Together, the sun, the moon, and the stars are known as the three lights, and they indicate general disposition."

"After the three lights come the well known 'four seasons'. These are Spring, which symbolizes birth, Summer, which symbolizes growth, Autumn, which symbolizes maturity and decline, and finally Winter, which symbolizes death. The four seasons symbolize the flow of life. Even you should know that much, Yuyuko."

"Yes and the final class of attributes are material attributes. Fire, shapeless and passionate. Water, returning everything to nothingness. Wood, strong yet gentle. Metal, cold and silent. And finally, the earth, to which all things must eventually return. These five are the third class of attributes."

"So, these three classes of attributes represent personality, life, and material, and you can represent all of nature in terms of combinations of them. And, when you take the number of combinations of the three lights, the four seasons, and the five phases, it comes to sixty."

"Well, that's not the end of the story. Nature maintains its balance by alternating through each sequence separately. In other words, each year we go from sun, to moon, to stars, to sun, to moon, and so on. At the same time, we go from spring, to summer, to fall, to winter... From fire, to water, to wood... Each class changes its attribute. What do you think happens then? You see the same combination once every sixty years."

"This year represents the combination of the sun, spring, and earth. That only happens once every sixty years. And together, they represent the rebirth of all living things."

I dare you or ANYONE to try to "care more about their series' lore" than that.

(or be any nerd-ier.  You say people are "nerdlings" for discussing oxygen and Lunarian aging, but these games are designed by the same guy who wrote that above block of text.  You, me, and everyone here probably has NOTHING compared to ZUN's incredible nerdiness)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 09:27:29 AM by Tiamat »

There seem to be a lot of confusion about Junko's backstory, so maybe this would help a bit. After some digging around at some Chinese forums, the story basically goes like this.

[Warning: there will be a mix of original myth and zun myth]
The original tale of Junko or Xuanqi, goes something like this. She was originally the daughter of a lord back in ancient china, but one day while outside, the xia dynasty emperor, Houyi, was attracted by her beauty. He then forced her to be his wife and killed her son, Bofeng, these all greatly angered Junko. So she teamed up with HanZhuo, one of Houyi's more ambitious subjects, and planned to kill Houyi and make HanZhuo the emperor. So for years they began secretly teaming up with all of Houyi's subject, until all of the people around them are part of the plan (Which was very easy considering Houyi was a tyrant and a shitty emperor). So one day, after they got Houyi drunk, they killed him and the rest of his family then made HanZhuo emperor. In the end, Junko got her long time revenge by chopping Houyi's dead body into little pieces and forcing his sons to eat his flesh.

As for Chang'e, everyone know the story of the Houyi who shoot down the ten suns and Chang'e was that Houyi's wife. There are some additional bits that is more obscure, the bow that Houyi killed the ten suns with was given to him by DiJun he gave it to him for him to maintain peace of the land, but ended up killing DiJun's sons (the suns). For this Houyi was stripped of his power, but XiWangMu took pity and presented to him the immortal medicine, however the medicine were all eaten by Chang'e and Houyi was left to die on earth. (In some version Chang'e regretted this decision, in others she didn't)

It gets even more weird when you consider the ten suns relationship in all this (Involving XiHe), but that is beside the point. It is a very confusing myth/history, cause it is confusing, China didn't have a very good record of this period of time and any reliable pieces got burned up in the cultural revolution.

Now for ZUN version, which is basically a mix of the two.
Houyi was the hero who shoot the ten suns (killing apollo and 8 other sun gods) and was very high-classed, he had two wifes, Junko and Chang'e, he also killed Bofeng, the child he had with Junko. As for the reasons for him killing Bofeng, no one knows, there are a group of Chinese fans who are digging around ShanHaiJing and coming up with a couple possible explanation (ranging from him choosing Chang'e over Junko to more outlandish explanations). The fact is he did it, and Junko hate him for it, the rest went like the myth, she killed him, in fact she killed him so thoroughly there were nothing left of his soul. But Chang'e went back to the moon before Junko could make her pay for her part of Junko's lost (which is surprisingly, a lot). And she have been pissed off ever since.

The more interesting bits are when you dig around this mythology, I would say this is one of the more interesting myths to dig around cause it makes the entire thing more of a mess.
- First interesting bit, in Houyi's sun shooting myth, according to ShanHaiJing (or some other Chinese myth book), Houyi shoot down the suns under the direction of what could be the Celestial Bureaucracy, the ten suns were sons of the goddess XiHe. Which is hilarious when taken in Touhou term, meaning Apollo was the son of XiHe, not sure if Zun realise it or not, but it makes for a pretty hilarious neta.
- Second interesting bit, depending on which version, Houyi was either worshipped as a hero, or greatly punished for his action. In Touhou version, it boils down to the Celestial Bureaucracy seem to be happy while the other aboriginal myth gods are pissed off at him (such as Hecatia). Seem to be more Central Mythology vs Aboriginal Mythology.
- Chang'e was the wife of DiJun, who is also the husband of XiHe. Dijun was also Houyi's boss in ShanHaiJing. The part where people say that Houyi shooting the suns killed Junko's son, was probably a mistake in mixing XiHe and Junko. Which is understandable cause Chang'e married both of these mens, it also have something to do with the source of XiHe and Junko's myth, but the records gets way too fuzzy at that point.
- Another interesting bit about ZUN's version of Houyi is that he is really really REALLY died, otherwise Junko and Hecatia wouldn't be going after Chang'e.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:10:24 AM by ap1001 »

Wow, so Houyi is even more dead than Yuyuko...  Granted, she is so lively that even though she is technically dead...  I still can't stop myself from considering her alive.

But that is beside the point.  With what I have seen on backstories...  My eyes watered the first time I found out Junko lost her son.  And with what has happened with Houyi, it seems that she may have a backstory more tragic than Yuyuko.

And the Ten Suns...  well I think I know where one of them might be.  Given that they were going around scorching the Earth with their nuclear fusion before Houyi shot them down, and that they were described as three legged crows, it might explain Utsuho's actions.  She was going to scorch the surface as it was the final will of the Yatagarasu that she consumed and it hijacked her mind for a while.  One of her spell cards even makes reference to the event, Blazing Star "Ten Evil Suns".  I am sure Utsuho can in theory put a smile on Junko's face with one of Houyi's greatest achievements at least being partially undone.  I am sure Hecatia might appreciate her as well...  wait, with what happened it gets even more confusing.  ZUN basically implied that Apollo is a yatagarasu...  in that case there is a one in nine chance that this particular sun has been reignited.  Yeah, now I really wonder how Hecatia will react to Utsuho...


IIRC, Houyi becane a sort of hero after he came to earth due to his strength, but became a tyrant after Chang'e drank the elixir and flew away. Is it possible that Houyi didn't marry Junko until after Chang'e drank the elixir?

So Houyi kills the suns, becomes mortal and is thrown to earth, then marries Chang'e. While on earth, he becomes a hero. Some god pities him and gives him the hourai elixir, which Chang'e then drinks and flies away. Now bitter, Houyi becomes a tyrant and forces Junko to marry him. For whatever reason he kills their son. Then Junko and friends team up and kill Houyi.

I'm also having a hard time with the fact that ZUN implies Apollo to be a yatagarasu...
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

UTW

Death in Touhou doesn't really mean much. You're as dead as ZUN wants you to be. Houyi is dead, but in Eirin's diagram in Reisen's ending, it also shows Houyi with the Sun. So he could have ascended like he does in some of the Chang'e versions. If that's the case. I wonder if Junko doesn't know or simply can't go after him again to make him double-dead.

I thought Junko was based on Xihe also. It's interesting, but I think it's a more minor coincidence not really worth noting. I just don't think ZUN really had the Xihe and Changxi (it's worth noting that Changxi isn't necessarily Chang'e but has come to be identified with other similarly named characters) dynamic in mind. The influence that really matters is the two Houyis and ZUN drawing from them, taking the confusion between them to its natural conclusion. It's more that Xihe and Changxi would naturally be compared. Plus acknowledging Xihe and Changxi brings Di Jun into play, which makes things even messier.

Now that the endings are translated I don't really think there's all that much confusion anymore. I think many of the major points are known, just not the fine details. That's as far as the myths are concerned. As far as Touhou goes we can only really ascribe what we know in canon, but as always it's fun to speculate. Hopefully ZUN will clear some things up in the upcoming LoLK interview.

Hi Im stuck on Junko's spell card (4th) on pointdevice normal mode with Sanae. Does anyone have any tips or strategies to beating this?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 03:22:03 PM by Catmusica »

fsvgm777

  • One of the only Touhou fans from Luxembourg... I guess.
  • Oh, I'm just a concerned observer.
v1.00b is out:

http://kourindou.exblog.jp/23743249/

Changelog (in Japanese):
Quote
・デモプレイを再生するとセーブデータを上書きするバグを修正した
・一部のボスで、特殊条件下ショットが当たらなくなるバグを修正した
・霊夢のボムで背景が赤くなるバグを修正した
・その他軽微なバグを修正した
・また中断プレイ中に解像度を変更した場合、セーブデータを使用できなくなりましたのでご了承ください
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 08:44:01 AM by fsvgm777 »

Drake

  • *
・fixed bug where demo replay overwrites save data
・fixed bug where some bosses would become unable to be hit under certain conditions
・fixed bug where reimu's bomb turned the background red
・fixed other minor bugs
・also if you had changed the resolution during suspended play, please note that your save data will now be unusable
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 11:40:14 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

N-Forza

  • Information Superhighway Robbery
  • *
  • I said it was a steal, but not for whom
I think that second one might be "fixed bug where some bosses would become unable to be hit under certain conditions" but I'm kinda sleepy.

Drake

  • *
Yeah I was unsure about that one as well. I'm not familiar with the bug itself so I don't really know.
EDIT: On further inspection 条件下 does mean "under x condition"; I didn't expect such a literal phrase. Changed.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 11:42:02 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Timing out a spellcard whilst bombing seemed to make the boss intangible (and therefore unkillable) afterwards, yes. At the very least, it does if you do it on Hecatia's Lunatic Impact (but I imagine it's related to the fact that it's the most likely case for you to time out a spell that you're bombing and it's not actually a timeout spell)

I guess he probably also fixed pointdevice's infinite slowdown mode bug if you die at the last second on Junko's final card.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Isn't one of Hecatia's moon spellcard basically a harder version of the penultime spellcard of the Luna, Sunny and Star?
1CC Easy: UFO , MOF, PCB, DDC, GFW, POFV, TD, IN, SA, 1CC Normal: MOF, DDC, IN, POFV, PCB, TD, EOSD, HSIFS
Extra Mode: Ran Yakumo, Okina Matara

Isn't one of Hecatia's moon spellcard basically a harder version of the penultime spellcard of the Luna, Sunny and Star?

Yup. I noticed that too XD. Except now, instead of a single mass aimed at you, you get 3! And instead of the power to freeze bullets, you get Reisen's bomb!
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

・fixed bug where reimu's bomb turned the background red
Ooohhh... so that's why I got the red background the two times I was playing with Reimu? Nice to know it was fixed. It seemed odd but creepy that suddenly a red background appeared, it seemed like it was on the path to a bad ending.

Also in the patch have any of the patterns been changed.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 07:52:28 AM by Catmusica »

Seeing my Normal and Extra replays still runned perfectly, I guess none.

Also glad to see the "you can't shoot the boss" glitch has been fixed. Otherwise I'd have every trouble on Lunatic Impact lol.
1CCs:
Normal: IN (6A and 6B), TD, DDC, UFO, MoF, SA, EoSD, PCB, PoFV, LoLK (Pointdevice, Legacy), HSiFS, WBaWC
Extra: MoF, DDC, UFO, IN, SA, TD, LoLK, HSiFS, WBaWC

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ZM

  • Overly Eager
  • Sanae~

Drake

  • *
Gobou is truly








Spoiler:
a lunatic

Spoiler:
(thought it would be something else didn't you)

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

ふねん1

  • Scientific editor
  • If you're alive, you can always keep moving.
I almost had a heart attack watching him dodge the end of Stage 5 before Clownpiece. Crazy stuffs.
"Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking." - Carl Sagan

NEW AND IMPROVED YOUTUBE, now with 60 fps Touhou videos! Latest video update: WBaWC Lunatic/Extra no-miss no-bomb no-Roars no-Spirit-Strikes compilation.

I wonder if the v1.00b patch for this game is going to cause problems with the English patch and be cause for it to be overhauled due to slight changes in coding?

I wonder if the v1.00b patch for this game is going to cause problems with the English patch and be cause for it to be overhauled due to slight changes in coding?
Unlikely imo. Assuming the programmers are on top of things, thcrap should be updated for 1.00b within a week or two.
Playing Touhou since 18 March 2012. Playing video games since 19XX.
Normal 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, HSiFS, CtC.
Extra 1CC: EoSD, PCB+Phantasm, IN, PoFV (K&S), MoF, SA, TD, HSiFS, CtC+Phantasm.
Hard 1CC: EoSD, PCB, IN, MoF, TD, CtC.
Lunatic 1CC: EoSD

Support for 1.00b was added recently.

Neato!  :V

What are the chances do you guys think of there being a v1.00c or even a v1.01? I mean, is there still anything left for there to be fixed that is even the tiniest of nuisances?

I think I heard something about a replay bug that would be pretty serious but maybe that is already fixed? I hope so... Replays are badges of honor to me!


Plubio

  • 宇宙少年
    • Suzunaan
What are the chances do you guys think of there being a v1.00c or even a v1.01? I mean, is there still anything left for there to be fixed that is even the tiniest of nuisances?

I think I heard something about a replay bug that would be pretty serious but maybe that is already fixed? I hope so... Replays are badges of honor to me!

Judging by Shinreibyou (1.00b and 1.00c released the same day) and Kishinjou (only 1.00b) in my opinion I don't really think there're big chances for another game version for Kanjuden.

Lollipop

  • stay woke
  • literally and figuratively dying
stupid question, but where can i get the patch for v1.00b? nvm i found it
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 05:53:12 PM by Lollipop »
Touhou 1CCS:
Hard: LLS, EoSD(NB), PCB(NB), IN, MoF, TD, DDC(NB), LoLK
Lunatic: EoSD, PCB, DDC, LoLK
Extra: LLS, EoSD, PCB(Extra&Phantasm), IN, MoF, SA, DDC, LoLK
Current Focus: 1cc SA Hard, or an Extra

game2011

  • mineiptXD
    • Supreme ??asual Dating Verified Women
And the Ten Suns...  well I think I know where one of them might be.  Given that they were going around scorching the Earth with their nuclear fusion before Houyi shot them down, and that they were described as three legged crows, it might explain Utsuho's actions.  She was going to scorch the surface as it was the final will of the Yatagarasu that she consumed and it hijacked her mind for a while.  One of her spell cards even makes reference to the event, Blazing Star "Ten Evil Suns".  I am sure Utsuho can in theory put a smile on Junko's face with one of Houyi's greatest achievements at least being partially undone.  I am sure Hecatia might appreciate her as well...  wait, with what happened it gets even more confusing.  ZUN basically implied that Apollo is a yatagarasu...  in that case there is a one in nine chance that this particular sun has been reignited.  Yeah, now I really wonder how Hecatia will react to Utsuho...
The Yatagarasu has nothing to do with the ten suns, so Utsuho has no role in this.  Similar, but not the same.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 07:56:59 AM by game2011 »