Miscelleneous Touhou thoughts and commentary.

[Shadow1176]

I have the same thought of Meiling being an awesome chef.

Also, that brings to mind that I think that a lot of characters are in culinary businesses. Like how Reisen probably cooks meals in Eientei, how Yuugi could be a bartender, and how Momiji might be a hunter, skinner, and cooker of wild game.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I'm wondering how a crossover between Touhou and Pixar's Inside Out would turn out to be like.

[Tengukami]

I'm wondering how a crossover between Touhou and Pixar's Inside Out would turn out to be like.

There's a thread for that!

[Tribow]

I know that Chen is stronger when Ran is around her.
But what if Yukari and Ran was there?
I believe that Chen's power would raise so high that she's stronger than Ran when Yukari is around. I think this because if Ran's power is boosted if Yukari is around, Chen should also get that power and the power she gets from Ran. Of course Ran is still more skilled compared to Chen.

But lets say Ran was to punch a giant boulder while Yukari was around. It would maybe split into pieces.
If Chen was to punch that same boulder with both Ran and Yukari nearby that boulder would be obliterated.

Of course that might not be the exact power, but I'm just comparing it that way.

[Drake]

Lemme use numbers. Say Chen is 1, Ran is 2 and Yukari is 4. 1 < 2 < 4. Say Chen's bonus from being around Ran is 1(+1) = 2 to match Ran, and Ran's bonus from being around Yukari is 2(+2) = 4 to match Yukari. If all three are together, Ran gets 2(+2) = 4 and Chen gets 1(+1)(+2) = 4 as well. Even assuming whatever "proximity bonus" powers them up to their master's level, you still won't ever increase past each other, and that's already assuming the shikigami could potentially stack up to their master.

Given how shikigami are handled in the series, the "proximity bonus" is more along the lines that the master, being more capable, can give orders to the shikigami that makes better use of them. This is subtly explained in BAiJR and is complemented by the whole "shikigami = computers" analogy ZUN is fond of. If the computer acts out of line with what the master tells them, they get less done. That's basically what's going on.

[Abraham Lincoln]

I can't even search "Touhou OC" on deviantART without getting hit in the face by relentless barrages of Mary Sues. It doesn't help that quite a lot of these Mary Sues were the characters I made a long time ago.

[gilde]

The chorus of Kana's theme from PoDD bears a striking resemblance to the Russian song Polyushko-Pole (link, link).
The little glowing puffs floating around in Imperishable Night's outdoor stages turn blue when you're unfocused (for the human half of the team) and white when you're focused (for the youkai half). The bosses draw the puffs towards themselves during boss fights, too. I love little details like that.
There are a lot of posts on ZUN's old BBS still preserved on the Internet Archive, as it turns out! (The majority of them are on thwiki.cc here for easy access, thankfully.) I thought this one was a neat tidbit:

>４面のタイトルロゴの右下に『powerful』や『uncanny』という文字が表示されることに気が付いたのですが、
>これらはなにか意味があるのでしょうか？
４面は二つありますからねぇ。
あと、裏のステージは『bijou』と『piercing』です。

>>I noticed that Stage 4's title logos have "Powerful" or "Uncanny" written in the corner.
>>What does this mean?
Well, it's because there are two Stage 4s, after all.
Also, the stages behind them are "Bijou" and "Piercing".

The wording's kind of vague, so I'm not sure if those refer to the two Stage 6s, or to another pair of Stage 4s for Youmu and Sakuya that were initially planned but scrapped. But it's neat!

[the old guy]

Yuyuko's saliva isn't saliva, its ectoplasm.
Yeah.

[Mеа]

The wording's kind of vague, so I'm not sure if those refer to the two Stage 6s, or to another pair of Stage 4s for Youmu and Sakuya that were initially planned but scrapped. But it's neat!

Huh, I never knew about that, that's really neat. What could have been ; ;
A cursory search around gave me these two posts:

>今から考えても永夜抄は八人の自機にスペプラ、６ボスが二人に設定の規模の大きさと詰め込みすぎてずるいと思った(小並)
あれでも仕様は削られてるんやで

製品版では4面は2パターン(uncanny/powerful)やけど、
本来はもう2パターン(bijou/piercing)あったわけやし

霊夢が止めに来るuncannyステージと魔理沙が止めに来るpowerfulステージ以外に、
   永4面にはゲーム内には登場しないbijouステージとpiercingステージっていう裏ステージも
   設定的には存在してるとかも神主が言ってたな

by random Japanese forum members. The general consensus seems to be two alternate stage 4s.
It's odd that the BBS post is dated after the full version was released, but it seems like this comment was made before in the initial planing stages? Or maybe he's just talking about what he was planning.
The first quote mentions that IN was a huge game, which I never really thought about, but yeah, it's totally true. Two stage 4s, two stage 6s, 8 characters with 4 total different scenarios (each with good, normal, and bad endings), the first implementation of the spell practice mode, and final words (including some for characters you don't face in the actual story mode as well). I'm sorely curious about what he had planned for the ura stages, but seeing all the stuff that he did get in there, I totally don't blame him if he didn't have enough time.
On a side note, the only two kanji I can seem to find for bijou are 尾錠 and 媚情, though I don't find either really satisfying. I would find it odd if the ura stages were planned for Sakuya and Youmu to stop the players as it would seem out of their way and out of character. Which may leave... alternate, harder, Reimu/Marisa boss fights? That, or maybe an alternate stage with the bosses instead being Yukari or Alice. In that case, 'piercing' might describe Alice, since she's the one with the piercing laser in this game. Speculations speculations.

[snowflake247]

On a side note, the only two kanji I can seem to find for bijou are 尾錠 and 媚情, though I don't find either really satisfying.

"Bijou" also means "jewel" in French. You may have seen it before in the plural form "bijoux", for "jewelry".

[Tribow]

You know, I always thought Kogasa could actually scare people, but she always goes after the same people and is quite jumpy herself.
She should take tips from Koishi.

[Mеа]

"Bijou" also means "jewel" in French. You may have seen it before in the plural form "bijoux", for "jewelry".

Actually, I'm an idiot, I even saw that too. Everything else is in English, so it wouldn't really make sense for it to be in Japanese would it.
Though the only thing 'jewel' would make me think of is Kaguya, in this game.

[shoryusatsu999]

You know, I always thought Kogasa could actually scare people, but she always goes after the same people and is quite jumpy herself.
She should take tips from Koishi.

I think that she'd be great at running some sort of haunted house. Maybe she could make a deal with the Prismrivers so that she could use the mansion as a haunted house while they're on tour or something.

[Lt Colonel Summers]

Exactly what is the extension of gun control in Gensokyo, anyway? Fanworks can't seem to agree on Gensokyian Gun Politics being as free as the USA (everyone can own a gun as long as its not a military model) or as tight as Asian countries (owning even just bullets at all is illegal).

[Drake]

Gun control would be the spell card rules insofar as what is relevant and practical. There are basically no guns in Gensokyo outside of those used by the Lunar rabbits, and it would be reasonable to assume there are a few relics stuffed away, e.g. with Rinnosuke. Besides this there hasn't been evidence of guns being a thing, and so it doesn't make sense that there would be any politics about them.

i mean these are fanworks we're talking about though so they can do whatever they want really

[Prime32]

Exactly what is the extension of gun control in Gensokyo, anyway? Fanworks can't seem to agree on Gensokyian Gun Politics being as free as the USA (everyone can own a gun as long as its not a military model) or as tight as Asian countries (owning even just bullets at all is illegal).

Gensokyo doesn't have a formal legal system, and guns are rare enough that it's unlikely there's much of a precedent for how to treat them (beyond common sense stuff like "they're not toys"). And while just about everyone knows what a gun is (gunpowder has been around since the 9th century after all), do note that Akyuu seemed to be unfamiliar with the concept of automatic weapons in PMiSS - she mentioned the Lunar Capital having "weapons with firepower that far surpasses anything here on Earth", such as "a rifle that can shoot a spread of many bullets in an instant".

[Abraham Lincoln]

Doremy Sweet might be responsible for Touhou-related dreams one has.

[Shadow1176]

I've always thought of Cirno being really old, such as how she knows (Been to?) to the flower event that occurs every 60 years.

Also, on the subject of firearms, as unconventional and strange as it sounds, could a spread of bullets being shot from a rifle in an instant have meant something other than a shotgun, and say, a rifle that shoots a spray of high caliber rounds? Sort of like how shotgun shells utilize a large number of pellets, but instead of small projectiles, they shoot out bullets, or even explosives? It's a horrible idea, considering the sheer recoil and other issues with it, but just a thought. I also do wonder how far the Lunarians are in terms of military technology.

[Lt Colonel Summers]

According to SSIB, even the outdated Lunarian technologies are way more advance than what we puny Earthlings considers as cutting edge in real life. So I'm going to guess: it will be impossible to catch up with them in any way, even from the standpoint of militaries.

Which brings me to the next question on Lunarian military: apparently they are still using muskets and bolt-action rifles as the primary and only weapon of their military. They don't even issue sidearms or armor of any sorts...
So how do they think they can curbstomp anything and everything with weapons that even we puny Earthlings considers as outdated? Using the Mary Sue-ish status of the Moonbitches?

[aListers]

I think that the "Akyuu is unreliable" thing comes into play when talking about lunarian warfare technology.  Our technology is roughly the same in terms of standard weaponry - according to Akyuu's description. For long enough, I've just immagined the lunarians as having greater social technology but inferior weapons tech. I heard once that ZUN was disappointed with how the artist drew the lunar capital due to it not being futuristic enough - the lunar millitary could also come under that if the person telling me that was correct.

[PK]

Which brings me to the next question on Lunarian military: apparently they are still using muskets and bolt-action rifles as the primary and only weapon of their military. They don't even issue sidearms or armor of any sorts...
So how do they think they can curbstomp anything and everything with weapons that even we puny Earthlings considers as outdated? Using the Mary Sue-ish status of the Moonbitches?

Maybe they don't trust moon rabbits with actually powerful weapons, and they only give advanced stuff to high-rank individuals.
Lunarians have ridiculously powerful magical/godly abilities, but giving something like Toyohime's fan to every moon rabbit, that are considered little more than slaves (or cannon fodder), is probably not a really good idea for them.

[Tengukami]

Which brings me to the next question on Lunarian military

I know this has already been said in this thread, but we do still have a Miscellaneous Questions thread, which might be a better place for this line of inquiry, all things considered.

[Abraham Lincoln]

It peeves me mildly when people say that the worst fandoms (e.g. FNaF) always get the best fan-songs.

[Boomer]

I personally like to think of Sakuya to be somewhat of a psychopath.  This is mainly due to her "Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial" theme, as well as some of her more threatening sounding lines in the games; I always imagine her speaking in the most calm and unfeeling manner which just makes one feel so uncomfortable.  For example, her win quotes in Hisoutensoku against characters like Reisen and Yuyuko.

[Tribow]

It peeves me mildly when people say that the worst fandoms (e.g. FNaF) always get the best fan-songs.

Whaaaat
Touhou is one of the best fandoms and we get the best fan-songs
Kancolle too!
And Ragnarok!
Hell Puzzles and Dragons got fan-songs!
Final Fantasy!
POKEMON
KIRBY
GRAHHHHHH
(you making me realize this got me seriously peeved)

[Red770]

I always like to imagine that when I'm playing any of the games an astral version of myself is dueling with the characters and wreaking havoc. And also I find that I tend to do worse whenever the moons cycle is close to a full moon.

[PK]

I personally like to think of Sakuya to be somewhat of a psychopath.  This is mainly due to her "Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial" theme, as well as some of her more threatening sounding lines in the games; I always imagine her speaking in the most calm and unfeeling manner which just makes one feel so uncomfortable.  For example, her win quotes in Hisoutensoku against characters like Reisen and Yuyuko.

Yeah, she does have those Jack the Ripper references and spell cards named after murdering and other creepy things too.
For some reason however, this is mostly only in her earlier appearances (from EoSD to IaMP), as her later cards sound much less dangerous and disturbing. Maybe it's ZUN's way to show how she is getting "softer" and better at dealing with other people?

[Lanaryu]

ZUN probably draws all his character portraits to match everything else in the game.

I recently switched out his portraits in IN with dairi's, and it looked really unnatural when playing with a different styled UI, player/enemy sprites, dialogue text, and so on. I couldn't bear it after a few playthroughs and switched it back to default. You can tell he picked his color choices blend to match backgrounds and the UI.

Never have I appreciated ZUNart more.

[Suspicious person]

Since Touhou does take inspiration from some Japanese folktales, I?d like to see if some thingsfrom a certain story?ll appear in the series at some point :

Anyway, this post reminded me of something :

I was just reminded of something I was supposed to connect before but never did.

So, I think it's pretty well-established at this point that Eirin is supposed to be Omoikane. In CiLR 1, Eirin explains that the Watatsuki sisters are distant relatives of hers; "one was the wife of a grandnephew of mine, while the other was married to the son of another grandnephew". I had always meant to explicitly connect the dots here.

First of all, I'm going to change this translation since it isn't "another" grandnephew, it's the same guy. With the clean assumption that Toyohime and Yorihime are supposed to be Toyotamahime and Tamayorihime respectively, it's actually that this "grandnephew" is Hoori. Hoori married Toyotamahime, and they had a child (Ugayafukiaezu) who later married Tamayorihime, which fits the above narrative.

Hoori is the son of Ninigi and Konohanasakuyahime (who you may also know as the one who cut Yatsugatake). Konohanasakuyahime is herself descended from Ooyamatsumi, who apparently came from Izanagi before his cleansing (which spawned Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo, among many others). Ninigi on the other hand came from Amenooshihomimi and Yorozuhatahime. Amenooshihomimi came from Amaterasu, which as said above came from Izanagi. Yorozuhatahime came from Takamimusuhi, who is one of the three kami of creation. It's extra confusing since Takamimusuhi did some stuff, then left existence and reappeared generations later to have Yorozuhatahime -- but before they "hid", they created Omoikane. So to follow all this back down, Omoikane is a sibling of Yorozuhatahime, whose child is Ninigi, whose child is Hoori, who married Toyotamahime.

So essentially what Eirin did with this quote is further confirm her identity (along with the Watatsukis), but also troll a whole lot because the Shinto kami genealogy is convoluted as fuck and there were a ton of other ways she could have stated their relationship.

Houri, Toyotama hime, and Ugayafukiaezu (to a lesser extent) are figures that have some presence in a folklore story about a lost fishhook? and two magical jewels. Basically the story is more or less like this (skipping a huuuuuuge chunk of context but still getting the essential right) :

Houri loses the enchanted fishhook his brother Hoderi lent him, and his brother forces him to find it and bring it back : Houri searches for the fishhook and dives deep in the sea, where he encounters Toyotama hime. He falls in love with her, marry her, go live with her in the dragon palace and ask Ryujin (her father)?s help to find the lost fishhook ; Three years later, feeling homesick , he asks to go home and explain his situation to Ryujin : good guy Ryujin then gives Hoori two magic jewels that control the sea to Hoori, curses the fishhook so that it brings misfortune to its owner, and give a strategy to Hoori in order to subjugate his brother? with the help of the two sea controlling jewels?

The story continues into Hoori subjugating Hoderi, the birth of his son (Ugayafukiaezu) and why his wife left him and so on? but interestingly enough, despite the role they played, we never hear about the magical jewels anymore? at all !

Anyway, Touhouverse puts the Dragon palace in the moon, and Toyohime is more or less Toyotama hime as much as Eirin is Omoikane : so... how to fit the story with the Moon (and Touhou) then ~ ?

These magical orbs / jewels are called Kanju and Manju (otherwise known as Shiomitsu-tama and Shiohiru-tama), and their respective ability is to raise and lower the sea level: "borrowing" the explanation straight from Wikipedia because of laziness

The Japanese compounds kanju 干珠 lit. "ebb jewel" and manju 満珠 lit. "flow jewel" combine kan 干 (cf. 乾) "dry up; drain off; ebb (tides); recede; oppose" and man 満 "fill; full; rise (tides); fulfill; satisfy" with ju, shu, or tama 珠 "gem; jewel; precious stone; pearl; bead". Compare the reversible compounds kanman 干満 and mankan 満干or michihi 満ち干 meaning "ebb and flow; high and low tides; the tides". Shiomitsu-tama 潮満珠 and shiohiru-tama 潮干珠 are archaic "tide jewel" names using shio or chō 潮 "tide; flow; salt water".

Alright, so? if we forcefully shove these into Touhou, these?ll have to be treasure that were given by the Moon? magical jewels that controls the sea level, won?t that look pretty in Touhou ? But anyway? Pop quiz ~ what else can control the sea level in the world ? That?s right ! The Moon ! (well, technicaly, it "affects", but...) It?s totally possible to forcefully fuse some things from the story into Touhou the same way the tale of the bamboo cutter got hijacked by Touhou without to much trouble. What if these somehow made their appearance into the series someday ?  :3 We don?t have a wholesome sea-related story yet in Touhou, but hey, the Moon gets to be associated with sea things quite a bit, so?  :X

I?m not making this with Touhou 15 in mind (well, a bit, but?), just that I just got reminded of this suddenly for some reason and thought it would be amusing to see some of it in the series? especially since the magical jewels were never, ever mentioned again...

[Kaizaki]

I can't help but think that LoLK will contain shout-outs to IN in more ways than one (with that being the obvious moon connection).

Also, I meant to write a post about history being a subtheme of IN, and a possible similarity with dreams in LoLK. But that can wait---the hype is here!