Filler Mafia - Day 5

[Murrin]

if I knew I was going to get doctored I really would have claimed d1 ;_____;

What do you mean by "get doctored"?  Does it have something to do with the yellow-colored Votals?

so, I'm not the greatest or most experienced Mafia player ever, but don't post stuff like this.  You don't want people to think you're only trying to appear Townish.  You want to have honest and transparent motives for doing whatever you're doing, or be able to fake them convincingly. 
If someone jumps all over you for doing something you think is right, that can be discussed AFTER you do what you think is right.

Noted for the first post, but as for the second post (the Zak vote), I felt like I had to include that last comment, because I really didn't have a reason to vote for anybody.  I didn't have a good case on anybody.  Maybe I would have if I had had more time to analyze, but I was pretty busy this week so I didn't. So really the main reason I voted is that Shadoweh suggested that if I didn't vote, people would think I was scummy. 

Also part of it is I'm new to this board, so I'll probably get used to all this, and will naturally just stop saying things like that ("apparently it's scummy to do this so I'm going to do that") anyway.

Also: I have FoS on Murren and CF7.

What does this mean?  What does FoS mean?

Also, really want cf7 to explain himself. At the point of using your extension ability, you were the prime candidate for a consolidate lynch, so the major motivation behind using it would be to save your skin, yet you failed to actually to capitalize on the additional time to give us your scumreads, claim, or anything really. This led me to believe that you are actually just trying to throw us off and hope that the apathy and lack of direction would cause town to direct the lynch elsewhere, which, congratulations, while you succeeded, you also managed to look terribly scummy, I think this is the second prime wagon after sky p

This seems like a reasonable argument to me.

Could someone (perhaps Selery/Shadoweh since they mentioned it) explain what a "nerfed cop"/"4-person cop"/"1-in-4 cop" is?

I can confirm that this slot turned CF7 into a one-shot doctor with no other powers LD1.

What does "this slot" refer to? CF7's name being yellow?

I have to go back and do more analysis of the DNA/Sky argument.

[Murrin]

Edited this (ended the quote sooner) to clarify.

Also, really want cf7 to explain himself. At the point of using your extension ability, you were the prime candidate for a consolidate lynch, so the major motivation behind using it would be to save your skin, yet you failed to actually to capitalize on the additional time to give us your scumreads, claim, or anything really. This led me to believe that you are actually just trying to throw us off and hope that the apathy and lack of direction would cause town to direct the lynch elsewhere, which, congratulations, while you succeeded, you also managed to look terribly scummy

This seems like a reasonable argument to me.

[O4rfish]

A slot is the player slot, or perhaps the character we are playing.  My slot is the position and role ActionDan assumed, and which I inherited from him.  The reason I said my slot used the ability is because it was set to go off LD1 when neither ActionDan nor I was playing the game. 

A doctor is someone who targets someone else to prevent their death.  If you verb the noun, getting doctored means having a preventative effect on you. 

A 1/4 cop is presumably someone who targets 4 people and learns if there's a scum in that group, or how many scums in the group, or something.  The mention of 1/4 cop was speculation on why the names were yellow.  Skypal has implied he turned people yellow, and also implied it was some sort of rolecop not alignment cop.

[O4rfish]

FoS means Finger of Suspicion.  It's just saying who you're suspicious of, and who you might want to vote later.

Sheeping someone (shipping) means you are following someone else's logic to arrive at the same conclusion as them, like a sheep following along.  If I was sheeping A on B, that means I would vote for B just as A is voting for B.

[Sky_Paladin]

I will now explain my role, since oarfish has also claimed scum in the process.

I am a painter. I paint a target a color. Anybody who interacts with that target (targets or is targeted by) also becomes that color.
Exception: the first time I applied it, it doesn't color me.

Night 1 I was annoyed at all the afk players so I decided to mark up Zakeri as bright yellow to make him stand out.
However, I was redirected to Shadoweh.  So, Shadoweh became yellow. 
Shadoweh targets Zak, Sky or CF7.
Zak targets Sky or CF7.
CF7 targets (redirects) Sky, thus completing the circle, and painting me yellow too - unless SB screwed up.
If CF7 had docced Serela, Serela would be yellow instead of me.
If Oarfish had "charged up" CF7, then he would also be yellow.
The effect will remain in play until game end.

[Sky_Paladin]

"Zak targets Sky or CF7" should be Shadoweh/Sky/CF7.
Inviting Shadoweh/Zak to confirm who they targeted n1 to confirm my role is working as intended.

Because at the moment, CF7 and Oarfish are telling fibs.

[Sky_Paladin]

Edit:
Oarfish acted during the day phase so he is off the hook.
CF7 sadly is not.
Oarfish already explained his doc shot was random which sounds like crap to me, but we can deal with that in due time.

[Sky_Paladin]

Checking with SB via pm to make sure the role functions like I think it does.

[O4rfish]

Might want to rethink your alleged roleshens.  CF7 did not have the power to redirect n1, unless that is a default faction ability. 

[O4rfish]

Like I said, my ability was not inherently random, but since ActionDan was MIA that meant SB had to manually activate it, so he chose at random. 

Skypal: ask SB if paint can get through roleblocks.

Skypal paints Zak.  Zak redirects Skypal to Shadoweh*.  Shadoweh roleblocks CF7.  CF7 does not reach Serela. 
If Zak picks up paint from Shadoweh, and puts it on Skypal, and CF7 cannot get paint onto Serela, then Skypal and CF7 can both be telling the truth. 

[O4rfish]

Alternative explanation 1: CF7 is lying?
Skypal paints Zak.  Zak redirects Skypal to Shadoweh.  CF7 doctors Shadoweh and then lies about it, because she is CF7's buddy.  Shadoweh kills Dormio.

Alternative explanation 2: Skypal is lying?
Skypal paints four people, and the paint just doesn't do anything.

Alternative explanation 3: Serela is lying, and is actually ascetic?
Skypal paints Zak, Zak redirects Skypal to Shadoweh, Shadoweh does something non-roleblocky to CF7, CF7 doctors Serela. 
3a:
Skypal paints Zak, Shadoweh decoys Skypal, Zak does something that targets CF7 and (either Shadoweh or Skypal or both), CF7 doctors Serela.

Alternative explanation 4: Shadoweh has some sort of Strange Attractor role
Skypal paints Shadoweh, Zak does something to Shadoweh, CF7 doctors Shadoweh.

[SB]

I screwed something up. It will be fixed shortly

EDIT: Done.

[Sky_Paladin]

Wrrrrrfffffff.
Okay, so I am no longer yellow...means I wasn't redirected by Zak/CF7/Shadoweh, and the actions presumably check out now.
We infer some interactions between Shadoweh/CF7/Zak only.
Will process this new information.

Find Oarfish claim that SB randomly fired off Dan's ability before phase end as highly dubious.  Find Oarfish queries about roleblocker interactions highly dubious. More when I don't hav guests.

[Sky_Paladin]

Also find CF7 claim that he docced Serela of all people needs an explanation.

[O4rfish]

Well then.  Skypal isn't yellow. 

Heh I just realized AE4 didn't work if Skypal was yellow, but does work now.
Also realized: nobody yellow could have killed Dormio (assuming Skypal telling the truth).

New explanation: everyone is telling the truth?
Skypal tries to paint Zak.  Shadoweh bodyguards Zak.  Zak roleblocks CF7.  CF7 fails to reach Serela. 

Alt 1: CF7 is lying?
Skypal tries to paint Zak.  Shadoweh bodyguards Zak.  Zak does something to both Shadoweh and CF7.  CF7 does nothing.*
if CF7 doctored Zak or Shadoweh and then lied about it, that person would probably be CF7's scumbuddy, but then someone else killed Dormio which doesn't seem likely.  I am assuming 7-2.

Alt 2: Skypal is lying?
Skypal paints Shadoweh.  Shadoweh does something to Zak.  Zak roleblocks CF7.  CF7 fails to reach Serela.
This is the simplest explanation.  It means none of Shadoweh Zak and CF7 could have killed Dormio.

Alt 3: Serela is a lying ascetic?
Skypal tries to paint Zak.  Shadoweh bodyguards Zak.  Zak does something to both Shadoweh and CF7.  CF7 doctors Serela but doesn't paint him. 

Alt 4: Shadoweh has a Strange Attractor ability?
Skypal paints Shadoweh, Zak does something to Shadoweh*, CF7 doctors Shadoweh.
*possibly Zak turns Shadoweh into a Strange Attractor.

Cut by no.  Anyone who redirected Skypal onto a particular target would have gotten paint on them from the target, and would have put paint on Skypal. 

"Skypal: ask SB if paint can get through roleblocks. " <-- obvious question since trying to solve roleshens puzzle, and not dubious.

[O4rfish]

Ah, I wrote the wrong conclusion for Alt 2.  If Skypal is scum, then none of Shadoweh Zak and CF7 are scum at all. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Paint goes on interactions so yes, it will go through roleblocks. 

The simple state of affairs is:
I tried to paint Zakeri, got redirected to Shadoweh. 
Shadoweh must have targeted either CF7 or Zak, or, both CF7 and Zak target Shadoweh. 

I've been told that paint only splashes once, so secondary actions (e.g. if CF7 targets Serela after being painted by Shadoweh) won't spread paint. 

With this stunning revelation the mod realised 'shit' and I got unpainted.  Yippee. 

So basically I full claimed for nothing.  FML. 

[WHMZakeri]

I feel like I shouldn't have gotten painted but I checked my role out and there is an explanation for how it happened. I can confirm that I targeted Shadoweh last night.

My suspicion on Murrin is lowering because it looks like the self-confidence issues come from genuine self-confidence issues and not just abusing newbie excuses for fun and profit.
none of this rolespec is changing my opinion on anybody else though.

cut: Oh, so basically your ability hit Shadoweh and anyone who targeted/was targeted by her turned bright yellow as a result? I guess that explains why I got painted, too.
That's kind of a huge waste :/

[Serela]

##Unvote
But that still doesn't explain why CF7 is yellow, and past that why I'm not. Unless scum roleblocked him or something, I guess?

Wait.

8. If your action fails or is redirected, you will be informed as such.

CF7's doctor would have to have gone off on me, because he said it did, which means it couldn't have been blocked/redirected/etc. But it didn't, because I'm not yellow.

[Serela]

Oh, or wait. Does the color only land on people who directly interact with the target, or does it chain with people who interact with interactors?

If it's the latter than the next question is "Shadoweh, did you target CF7 with something?", and if the answer is yes he's not confirmed scum.

[O4rfish]

So, either Zak redirected Skypal onto Shadoweh and the paint traveled backwards, or someone else did it and the paint refused to travel backwards. I don't even know which is more likely. 

We can assume Shadoweh targeted CF7 with some kind of ability.
Shadoweh and Zak and Skypal are cleared of being Dormio's killer (assuming you can't kill and perform an action at the same time) but I don't think we learned anything else from all this. 

Serela, what Skypal said is that the paint only affected people who targeted or were targeted by Shadoweh.  You were neither of those, so you were not painted. 
That is an interesting point, and it explains some things.

[O4rfish]

(an interesting point referring to Rule 8 which I overlooked)

[Serela]

We can assume Shadoweh targeted CF7 with some kind of ability.

It's best not to assume things like that.

[O4rfish]

If we postulate that CF7 is yellow because he targeted Shadoweh, that means he used the doctor on her and then lied about who he targeted ... but the only good reason for risking being thrown into a 1v1 with a tracker or watcher would be to protect his scumbuddy ... and if CF7 and Shadoweh are scumbuddies then a third person killed Dormio.

[Serela]

This only makes sense if your doctor grant ability forces them to use the doctor n1 and won't let them use an ability they normally had instead. Or if your role tells you that they used it.

[Sky_Paladin]

It can all be explained if Shadoweh confirms she targeted CF7, which I am sure she did. 

If she says she didn't target CF7, then we can assume CF7 lied about his action, and take the appropriate response. 

[DNAbc]

I am here, but I have more exam stuff to handle so I cannot really wall

The entire roleshen is also terribly confusing, to be honest, I am not in the right mindset to digest everyone's hypotheses and make responses, but I did some quick skimming anyway and I think we should take these points into consideration, am thinking as I type this up so can be messy


1. Paint, by itself, is a non alignment ndicative ability. The current namelist can only reveal that many things happened around shadoweh, but no hard confirms about who did what, if we really want confirmations on the correct theory, we need to flip someone

2.which brings me to my second point, very possibly, someone among sky p/oarfish/cf is/are lying in order to gambit out of a likely lynch, and at the end we still need to rely on player interactions to make a rational decision, we can discuss about roleshens, but we also mustnt forget to take them with a grain of salt because nothing is set in stone yet

3. Okay, so final point, I believe that if we actually want to make use of these results, shadoweh has to claim because like I said, so many things happened centered around shadoweh. Right now the roleshens discussions are just a waste of time because we still lack info more than anything, and I am really sleepy, later

Ew I ended up walling anyway

[Sky_Paladin]

and at the end we still need to rely on player interactions to make a rational decision

I think there is a 99% chance that Shadoweh targeted CF7 and that explains all things.  This experience has been frustrating but I think we can still take some things away from it in the long run. 

I believe that if we actually want to make use of these results, shadoweh has to claim

We don't need a claim from Shadoweh.  We don't even need to know if she acted or not.  All she has to say is 'Yes I targeted CF7' or "No, I didn't." 

[O4rfish]

I thought I said already, but my role is a day 1 one-shot inventor/vanillaizer which both grants a one-shot ability and removes all other non-faction abilities.  I could have chosen to grant a follower or a decoy, but doctor is what happened.
CF7 could have killed Dormio, or used the doctor ability on someone, or done nothing.  He could not have done anything else. 

For extra confusion, my ability does not change the person's title, so their flip remains as before. 

DNA makes a good point that we need to focus on lynching someone, and basing the lynch on scumhunting.  I do not have a good case on anyone, but I would point at people who haven't contributed much today: Murrin, Shadoweh, CF7. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Can you explain again why SB decided he had to mod-randomly-assign your day action?  Because I know Dan said something about not being able to vote but I don't really understand why SB had to apparently play for your slot.