Author Topic: Mapping Mima's Past  (Read 5944 times)

Mima-sama

  • What are you doing in that shrine you are not a god
  • You are too cool to be a god anyway :|
Mapping Mima's Past
« on: August 23, 2009, 09:01:00 PM »
WARNING : NEW FAN THEORIES BASED HEAVILY ON CANON, ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE

A few days ago I and a few other people, notably KennyMan666 who I collaborated on writing up this little thing with had a conversation on the IRC channel about Mima and mentioned the text of ZUN's Dolls in Pseudo Paradise CD which has a text on track 10 - Reincarnation (Which is Mima's theme):

It's strange that there's a Western-style mansion in the middle of a
deserted forest to begin with. The girl who lived there hardly ever
came into town. But, lately, I've seen a girl who looks like her daughter.
How do I know she had a daughter?
Well, since the girl looks like she did when she was young ...

Often times people associate this text with Marisa being Mima's daughter as the track is Reincarnation and Mima is known to have had strong ties with Marisa being her teacher/boss. However in this text it points more to a strong possibility that Mima is Marisa's mother, having possibly dressed in the same garb and even had blonde hair in life, looking rather similar to how Marisa does before "dying" and becoming a spirit.

While conversing about this text someone brought up the latter CD which was though to have no significance to any touhou characters and simply be a standalone story about a tragedy of 8 honest men in Gensokyo, however the text on track 10 in this one was pointed out as a possible way Mima had died and under further inspection we found some interesting points within the texts of the CD (take note that the world translated into clowns can be interpreted as Youkai):

- One of the 8 honest men is a female with blonde hair

- An old-looking western-style mansion deep in the woods is often mentioned as a place of rest for the 8 honest men

- By the end up the CD all 8 of the honest men are supposedly dead but only 7 corpses are mentioned to have been left behind.

- The blonde-haired woman is seen walking from the old-looking western-style mansion in the woods some time after the tragedy of the 8 honest men by the shrine maiden in the story and is specifically stated to have been one of the 8 honest men.

- Only one of the honest men in the story, the one using the self-description "I, the most beautiful one" in track 3 of the C63 version of the CD, isn't explicitly mentioned to have died, but merely "unable to return to where the others were". It does thus seems likely that this would be the blonde girl.

"I didn't notice when it stopped raining. The shrine maiden had been soaked completely
through, and it was as if she'd melted away into the rain. As I had been watching her,
the rain had become a veritable storm, and I, the most beautiful one, was taken
captive by the clowns. Just then, the clowns disappeared into the storm,
and I was unable to return to where the others were.
After that, there were six honest men left."

"August X
Today's incident started when I met a beautiful blonde girl
walking from the old western-style building deep in the forest.
I feel like I've seen her somewhere before, but I just can't
remember every little detail like that. The girl was just idly
sticking out her tongue and bowing her head and wandering towards
the exit to paradise while laughing loudly. Such an odd girl.
Come to think of it, that girl was the only woman in the eight
honest men,
not that it really matters.
Oh, today was just another boring day ..."

"There are eight less people in this paradise, "Gensokyo", and seven
corpses
were kept safe from youkai. Gensokyo has lost these honest
men forever. It's just a change in the population count.
Even this isn't a big piece of news."

A possibility for Mima's "death" may have been due to tampering with forbidden magic or betrayal by her comrades leading to her becoming just a "Spirit", soon after likely being sealed by the shrine maiden considering what she had become. Being sealed up for a bit and the circumstances that perpetrated her death had likely turned Mima into the vengeful spirit you see her as in HRtP and SoEW.

You may also take into account that the Shrine Maiden in these texts also has blonde hair and it is known that Mima was attempting to obtain the yin-yang orbs of Hakurei as well in SoEW, even though they are only able to be used by members of the Hakurei bloodline. It would be a long shot but Mima and by that quite likely Marisa as well may have some Hakurei blood in their veins which would enable them to use the yin-yang orbs. A piece of evidence outside this text that could back this theory up is that both Marisa and Reimu, being fully human, were not affected by the real moon in IN whereas Youmu was affected even though she's only half-human and Sakuya wasn't affected for god knows what reason (Lunarian lol). Given this, Reimu and Marisa could very well have no been affected due to some effect of both being of the Hakurei blood, whereas Youmu was affected because she is not.

On another note this quote from Perfect Memento in Strict Sense about Yuyuko states: "It is said that the color of her skin and hair is quite lighter than those when she lived." This is canonical evidence that ghosts do not look the same way as they did in life, which is another support for Mima having had blonde hair in life and thereby possibly one of the 8 honest men.

You may take note that within the story of the 8 honest men it does not explicitly state anything anywhere about one of them having a child, although this may or may not have occurred at some point and it is almost literally stated that Marisa is a descendant of Mima within the texts of the first release of the CD.


On a final note the texts of this CD may be a wealth of information for more crazy theories so I'm sure there are more wild possibilities that could be backed up by this in some form or other.

Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2009, 11:15:31 PM »
Actually, me and another friend thought that the girl mentioned in track 10 was actually Remilia, and the blondie who did the killing some years before was Flandre doing what she likes to do the best.

Mima-sama

  • What are you doing in that shrine you are not a god
  • You are too cool to be a god anyway :|
Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2009, 11:31:10 PM »
Well the connection was made mostly through the multiple mentionings of the western-style mansion in the woods, which is almost literally connected to Mima in track 10 of the first CD, most of the points within it were derrived from thoughts about that text.

Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 12:16:16 AM »
Well the connection was made mostly through the multiple mentionings of the western-style mansion in the woods, which is almost literally connected to Mima in track 10 of the first CD, most of the points within it were derrived from thoughts about that text.

But are you sure they are connected to Mima? My impression is that in these cds most tracks aren't used in the same way they were used before; afterall, there's no game. Take Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17, it isn't related to Hong in the cd.
And excuse me for the mistake, it seems that there wasn't a time span of more than a year for the release of the cds (I'm still confused to the dates, btw).

Other than that, the western style mansion could very well be the Scarlet Devil Mansion, unless there's another western style anything in Gensokyo.
Actually, the story could very well not be related to any described character, but the similarities we have when it's talked about a blonde shrine maiden involved in a series of murders and Flandre are stricking (Was She U.N. Owen?). Notice that "The shrine maiden had been soaked completely through, and it was as if she'd melted away into the rain.", and Flandre doesn't like rain, probably because she reveals reactions against it.

Notice that the thought of it being Flandre is related to her murdering spirit, but other characters could meet the requirements (like Yukari), though the mention of the western mansion and the clowns made us think it was related to the SDM and the maids.

Mima-sama

  • What are you doing in that shrine you are not a god
  • You are too cool to be a god anyway :|
Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 12:29:22 AM »
Well the connection was made mostly through the multiple mentionings of the western-style mansion in the woods, which is almost literally connected to Mima in track 10 of the first CD, most of the points within it were derrived from thoughts about that text.

But are you sure they are connected to Mima? My impression is that in these cds most tracks aren't used in the same way they were used before; afterall, there's no game. Take Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17, it isn't related to Hong in the cd.
And excuse me for the mistake, it seems that there wasn't a time span of more than a year for the release of the cds (I'm still confused to the dates, btw).

Other than that, the western style mansion could very well be the Scarlet Devil Mansion, unless there's another western style anything in Gensokyo.
Actually, the story could very well not be related to any described character, but the similarities we have when it's talked about a blonde shrine maiden involved in a series of murders and Flandre are stricking (Was She U.N. Owen?). Notice that "The shrine maiden had been soaked completely through, and it was as if she'd melted away into the rain.", and Flandre doesn't like rain, probably because she reveals reactions against it.

Notice that the thought of it being Flandre is related to her murdering spirit, but other characters could meet the requirements (like Yukari), though the mention of the western mansion and the clowns made us think it was related to the SDM and the maids.

Well the mansion is explicitly described as being deep in the woods and is described in the same manner as the mansion in track 10 of the first CD which is clearly the house in which Marisa resides. Also I think if there is a possibility of the blonde haired shrine maiden being anyone already known it Touhou it would be Yukari considering her border-related powers.

Besides this point Flandre is mentally a child and I do not think she could possibly write something like the shrine maiden's entry in track 13. Also it never states that the shrine maiden nor any single one of the 8 honest men were responsible for their passing.

Clowns is used in the same manner as the word Youkai is used in japanese on a side note.

Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 12:48:46 AM »
Well the mansion is explicitly described as being deep in the woods and is described in the same manner as the mansion in track 10 of the first CD which is clearly the house in which Marisa resides. Also I think if there is a possibility of the blonde haired shrine maiden being anyone already known it Touhou it would be Yukari considering her border-related powers.

Yes, because there's no difference between a house and a mansion.  :V
The point of the mother being Mima and Marisa being the little girl is valid, but that wasn't the tone of the story, nor the mansion deal matches Marisa's house (which is a house).
And why do you think it was Yukari in such a solid way? Nothing in the story matches her...

Besides this point Flandre is mentally a child and I do not think she could possibly write something like the shrine maiden's entry in track 13. Also it never states that the shrine maiden nor any single one of the 8 honest men were responsible for their passing.

The one who wrote the entry was probably Reimu. ??
And we're not talking about cheap literature. ZUN is a fan of Agatha Christie, and he wanted to put a mystery tone into it, so getting the reader's hands and taking him to the criminal would be a sin.

And thanks for the info on clowns.

Mima-sama

  • What are you doing in that shrine you are not a god
  • You are too cool to be a god anyway :|
Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 01:26:18 AM »
Well mansion can also be used in the same way the word house can and it was stated to be in the woods without any mention of a lake. The Yukari thing is just because Yukari is capable and has powers similar to what a Hakurei shrine maiden's (IE retaining the border of gensokyo), blonde hair and that Flandre was locked up in the basement of the scarlet devil mansion for 450 years so I wouldn't imagine her being able to get ouside.

With the shrine maiden bit I assumed it would be the shrine maiden aforementioned in the story considering she did not know who the blonde haired girl walking from the western-style mansion in the woods was and did mention the memory that she was the only woman of the 8 honest men.

KennyMan666

  • Precursor
  • The Saga
    • One Piece: Pure Corruption
Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2009, 02:19:49 AM »
Part of this was written under the idea "once you start going apeshit with theories, why stop?"
Fly & High!!

Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2009, 02:30:30 AM »
Er... This is confusing. So house = mansion in japanese, uh!

And I don't really recommend the notion that Yukari could be the blonde shrine maiden because it's theorized that she hunts in the outside world.
And I think you might not have paid enough attention to Flandre. She isn't hopelessly trapped in the basement. In fact, Flandre seems to get out of it a lot more than a "prisoner" can get out of its jail. Though I don't say that that's what definitely happened, she could have disguised as a shrine maiden in Dolls in Pseudo Paradise AND still have been the woman among the honest men.

And the shrine maiden who wrote the last tidbit was never stated to be blonde too. Not only that, the blonde one was reeeally weird...

Quote
Part of this was written under the idea "once you start going apeshit with theories, why stop?"

Oh.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 02:32:57 AM by G_gglypuff »

KennyMan666

  • Precursor
  • The Saga
    • One Piece: Pure Corruption
Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2009, 02:55:58 AM »
I mean, I subscribe to most of the theory. Mainly because I was the one who found a bunch of these things.

And the blonde girl is definitely not Flandre.
Fly & High!!

Re: Mapping Mima's Past
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2009, 03:05:44 AM »
Then we'll have a deadly danmaku duel to decide if it was Flandre or not show arguments to each other to prove the point. ^^