Author Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 239157 times)

Marron

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #840 on: June 28, 2015, 10:45:14 AM »
It was more like "suppose Zun says that the window era and 98 era are connected", not really a "he said that" thing.

And as for how she would be different, simple: dialogue. She, Mima and Reimu appear at least three times in pc 98 era, where they say things. You can see their personnality by that. I think it's enough to make you an opinion about these characters. Of course, that won't be the case for Gengetsu, Luize or Meira. . .

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #841 on: June 28, 2015, 12:03:23 PM »

As for the risk of ZUN not completing the game... That makes me worry both for the final version that might end up either rushed or released with a huge delay and for ZUN himself, as he might just overwork himself to meet the deadline  :ohdear:.
Going by the stage 1 theme comments, seems like that this time the game will be longer than usual (at least according to Google Translator). Maybe that's why there's delay or the risk of not ending in time.
I don't know if it only means the stages and boss battles are longer (and harder), but i'd be really happy if ZUN broke the 6+1 stages format and made it like 10 stages total, because this time the incident seems to be infinitely more dangerous than usual, and i almost feel that it would be reductive to put only 3 other bosses to end everything.

Also, for the Extra boss, maybe we'll fight the one who manipulated Sumireko? :V

Doki-Doki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #842 on: June 28, 2015, 03:10:54 PM »
Going by the stage 1 theme comments, seems like that this time the game will be longer than usual (at least according to Google Translator). Maybe that's why there's delay or the risk of not ending in time.
I don't know if it only means the stages and boss battles are longer (and harder), but i'd be really happy if ZUN broke the 6+1 stages format and made it like 10 stages total, because this time the incident seems to be infinitely more dangerous than usual, and i almost feel that it would be reductive to put only 3 other bosses to end everything.

Also, for the Extra boss, maybe we'll fight the one who manipulated Sumireko? :V
My guess is the manipulator of Sumireko is the causer of the incident, my best guess is that the manipulator will be the stage 6 boss. I certainly wonder what the relation between the manipulator and sumireko will be though, or if this means Sumireko will be a midboss to the manipulator's stage.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #843 on: June 28, 2015, 06:24:22 PM »
Marisa in PC-98 seems more serious.  Come the windows series, she stole some chunks of Mima's personality or something.

(I personally like to think of it as Marisa adopting aspects of Mima's personality to fill the empty void left when her teacher/surrogate mother/whatever left or dissappeared or whatever.  I'd be pretty surprised if THAT were actually the case, though)

Hmm, if the game's gonna be longer, I wonder if that's because it'll have a phantasm stage or something. (maybe with Maribel as the phantasm boss, in which case Yukari hilariously could still technically be the only phantasm boss of the series depending on things)

Serela

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #844 on: June 28, 2015, 07:42:08 PM »
Well, I imagine it's more that the game is longer because of Pointdevice Mode mechanics. Doremy was a very long fight for a stage 3 boss, for example. Even in Legacy or with no death pointdevice! And, well, if you DO die in pointdevice, the length of course gets vastly longer.

edit:Well, if you die in pointdevice the music goes back too, so nevermind on that; but still, it seems like the game is going to be made longer longer in pointdevice (another thing that will make legacy extra difficult; there's more you have to get through, not to mention how hard it is!)
edit again:Okay, the stage music checkpoints; the boss music doesn't.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 07:59:01 PM by Selery »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #845 on: June 28, 2015, 07:50:54 PM »
Quote
And as for how she would be different, simple: dialogue. She, Mima and Reimu appear at least three times in pc 98 era, where they say things. You can see their personnality by that. I think it's enough to make you an opinion about these characters. Of course, that won't be the case for Gengetsu, Luize or Meira. . .

Sort of. Their characters are hardly fleshed out in the earlier series and continuity is iffy. I mean look at Nitori as an example, most people interpreted her personality incorrectly even though she appeared several times prior to Hopeless Masquerade and the comics.

Failure McFailFace

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #846 on: June 29, 2015, 01:33:31 AM »
I have a feeling that Point Device Extra will only have chapter ends right before the midboss, during the midboss, right after the midboss, and right before the Extra boss. Just to make a hellish game mode even more hellish.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #847 on: June 29, 2015, 02:39:47 AM »
Assuming Pointdevice is even going to be in Extra.

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Kaizaki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #848 on: June 29, 2015, 04:30:25 AM »
Just an angle that hasn't been pointed out before:

In the prologue, it says
Quote
When urban legends were manifesting in Gensokyo, a rumour started to spread that "Apollo never went to the Moon".

Maybe this particular urban legend (moon landing hoax) also manifested, and the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.

The Lunarians likely took offence when humans started exploring beyond Earth (Mars, in this case), and took Curiosity as retaliation. And because Apollo landing in their backyard never happened---the event of which shook them and which they treated with much paranoia---they probably thought less of Earth's capabilities than if they (Apollo) had. In Touhou's timeline, this would mean only the Chang'e program occurred, and this was what ultimately set them off.

Kaguya and Eirin's conversation implies that they knew the invasion was a possibility. I'm guessing that the invasion was proposed before, but due to fear/reluctance/hesitation, it didn't fall through until now.

So, my thoughts on what happened:
- Perpetrator wants to invade the Earth, but due to the Apollo program, higher authorities were against it.
- Perpetrator manipulates Sumireko with the Lunar Capital power stone, and takes advantage of the existing faked moon landing conspiracy theory.
- Apollo never happened, and so the invasion was a go.

*Inserts remark about Moon stuffs being complicated, and curses insomnia.*

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #849 on: June 29, 2015, 06:57:15 PM »
Just an angle that hasn't been pointed out before:

In the prologue, it says
Maybe this particular urban legend (moon landing hoax) also manifested, and the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.

The Lunarians likely took offence when humans started exploring beyond Earth (Mars, in this case), and took Curiosity as retaliation. And because Apollo landing in their backyard never happened---the event of which shook them and which they treated with much paranoia---they probably thought less of Earth's capabilities than if they (Apollo) had. In Touhou's timeline, this would mean only the Chang'e program occurred, and this was what ultimately set them off.

Kaguya and Eirin's conversation implies that they knew the invasion was a possibility. I'm guessing that the invasion was proposed before, but due to fear/reluctance/hesitation, it didn't fall through until now.

So, my thoughts on what happened:
- Perpetrator wants to invade the Earth, but due to the Apollo program, higher authorities were against it.
- Perpetrator manipulates Sumireko with the Lunar Capital power stone, and takes advantage of the existing faked moon landing conspiracy theory.
- Apollo never happened, and so the invasion was a go.

*Inserts remark about Moon stuffs being complicated, and curses insomnia.*

100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
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PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #850 on: June 29, 2015, 07:17:40 PM »
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
Well, maybe lunarians had their brain washed and now they actually believe humans never went to the Moon? Or the incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon"?
Both make some (little) sense, but it still wouldn't explain why lunarians would bother exterminating humans if they never went to the Moon. They are like millions of years old, if they wanted to remove us from existence, they could have done it long ago, and i doubt they were scared about humans considerating how they repelled an army youkai 1000 years before.

Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #851 on: June 29, 2015, 08:38:33 PM »
Well, maybe lunarians had their brain washed and now they actually believe humans never went to the Moon? Or the incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon"?
Both make some (little) sense, but it still wouldn't explain why lunarians would bother exterminating humans if they never went to the Moon. They are like millions of years old, if they wanted to remove us from existence, they could have done it long ago, and i doubt they were scared about humans considerating how they repelled an army youkai 1000 years before.

Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.

Dunno, maybe it's because of the rules they have in place,
If destructive Youkai join in on a non spell-card incident, it could very well transform the incident into a completely different situation.
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Kaizaki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #852 on: June 29, 2015, 09:10:12 PM »
Also, any idea on why youkai "can't interfere to begin with"?
They are generally much more powerful than humans, and if humans get exterminated, youkai would be in trouble as well.
I don't know either, but maybe the fact that youkai were created by the Lunarians (or by the Moon's dim light, at least) has something to do with it?



Whoops, sorry I didn't respond to this:
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.
PK wrapped it up nicely:
[...] The incident as a whole is just an illusion caused by the urban legend thing, showing "what would have happened if humans never went to the Moon" [...]



I also found this snippet from CiLR's seventh chapter:
Quote
The Soyuz spacecraft. After the end of the Apollo program, any further plans to reach the moon also became nothing more than fantasy. However, rockets used for the Soyuz spacecraft was said to have been even more technologically advanced than the rockets used in the Apollo program. If it had reached the moon before the Apollo program, it might have had a significant effect on history.
May not be relevant (the significant effect may just well be that the Soviet Union reached the moon first), but it's an acknowledgement of the impact if Apollo never occurred the way it did.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 11:48:48 PM by Kaizaki »

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #853 on: June 30, 2015, 01:15:11 AM »
I don't know either, but maybe the fact that youkai were created by the Lunarians (or by the Moon's dim light, at least) has something to do with it?



Whoops, sorry I didn't respond to this:PK wrapped it up nicely:


I also found this snippet from CiLR's seventh chapter:May not be relevant (the significant effect may just well be that the Soviet Union reached the moon first), but it's an acknowledgement of the impact if Apollo never occurred the way it did.

That doesn't explain the American flag though.
Which once again, Urban legends shouldn't have the ability to erase actual history, it kinda goes against what has been established for them.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #854 on: June 30, 2015, 04:38:51 AM »
Quote
100% sure Apollo actually happened, it was pretty much one of the major things in the manga, unless I'm not getting your point here.
A legend wouldn't make events suddenly not happen.

Well, parallel timelines is a thing, Kaguya can manipulate it. So maybe someone else has some similar powers.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #855 on: July 02, 2015, 01:38:42 PM »
Oh god, if the fan theories here actually are what LoLK is built around then this entry in the series will make Touhou more convoluted as a whole than the ending to Evangelion!

I really wish that ZUN would focus more on building up the lore of Gensokyo instead of the Luna capital and Gensokyo together. Some parts of SSiB had me quite lost at times.  ???

By the way, douse anybody have news or little snippets about how the development of LoLK is going? Something from ZUN's twitter or blog? Announcements at public events? Leaks?... rumors? (lol)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 01:42:10 PM by HalfGrand »

Critz

  • Heartwarming ★ Miracle
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #856 on: July 02, 2015, 04:00:28 PM »
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

I still really want her involved though for meta reasons - it feels like ZUN gives too much emphasis on gameplay when picking playables as opposed to story potential as of late. First, an entire faction (the Moriya Trio) is missing from a religous war themed game, then Sakuya just convieniently finds a tsukumogami object to participate in DDC to have an excuse for her to return (as opposed to someone who already has a weapon to match Reimu and Marisa's situation), then Sanae sits out on the one incident she would never miss (hunt for outside world urban legend occult balls) AND misses an opportunity to meet a fellow Outside World girl and confront each others' viewpoints on OW and Gensokyo (in addition, Remilia is another person I just can't picture ignoring the urban legend crisis), and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past. I want Sumireko and Sakuya to appear in LoLK as bosses if nothing else, so the mangas wouldn't have to make up for all of those missed plot opportunities at least.

As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 04:03:31 PM by Critz »

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #857 on: July 02, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

I still really want her involved though for meta reasons - it feels like ZUN gives too much emphasis on gameplay when picking playables as opposed to story potential as of late. First, an entire faction (the Moriya Trio) is missing from a religous war themed game, then Sakuya just convieniently finds a tsukumogami object to participate in DDC to have an excuse for her to return (as opposed to someone who already has a weapon to match Reimu and Marisa's situation), then Sanae sits out on the one incident she would never miss (hunt for outside world urban legend occult balls) AND misses an opportunity to meet a fellow Outside World girl and confront each others' viewpoints on OW and Gensokyo (in addition, Remilia is another person I just can't picture ignoring the urban legend crisis), and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past. I want Sumireko and Sakuya to appear in LoLK as bosses if nothing else, so the mangas wouldn't have to make up for all of those missed plot opportunities at least.

As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.

For some reason, I'd find it funny if her brother or another member of her "clan" was behind this all along.

Though I do understand why that's most likely imposable for the reason of him being dead and no other family confirmed, but it is interesting.
Now that I think about it, what are the possibility of it being a ghost or a phantom? They're pure enough to sneak around on the moon and possibly cause chaos unnoticed.
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PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #858 on: July 02, 2015, 07:23:59 PM »
I doubt the mastermind manipulated Sumireko in particular, otherwise she would have spilled the beans when the rest of Gensokyo scared her for life and tied her down. Unless all we know about her so far is bullshit and facade and she's actually in cahoots with Lunarians - but I can't picture ZUN going for that kind of twist  :V.

Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball.

Now that I think about it, what are the possibility of it being a ghost or a phantom? They're pure enough to sneak around on the moon and possibly cause chaos unnoticed.
Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #859 on: July 02, 2015, 08:01:03 PM »
Quote
and finally Sakuya is NOT involved in a game that has Eirin finally take an active stance again and would be a perfect opportunity to shine light on Sakuya's past

Um... how exactly are Eirin and Sakuya related again? Has it been hinted before that Sakuya's past has Eirin linked to it?

I get the feeling that ZUN doesn't like to bother himself with character back-stories that much. I mean, Reimu and Marisa, two of the most prominent characters in Touhou, their back-stories are vague at best. Yes, we learn about what they get up to in the present like with stories in CoLA but back-stories of the characters... little hints.  :V

I would love to know more about Reimu and Marisa's upbringing from when they were younger and what that would have looked like in Gensokyo... but ZUN goes on record in interviews to say that he prefers to make new characters instead of building on existing ones (lol, no windows Mima for you, Mima worshippers!  :derp:).

Reu

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #860 on: July 02, 2015, 08:12:00 PM »
Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball. Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.


Well, CiLR already said that she wasn't unique in her ability to go between the two, but she did say very few could do the same,
though the way the line is worded makes it look like it's a trained/earned skill or something.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:58:07 PM by Reu »
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Critz

  • Heartwarming ★ Miracle
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #861 on: July 02, 2015, 09:24:40 PM »
Wait, "manipulated" doesn't mean she agreed with it, or even knew about it. What we know is that for some reason the lunarian occult ball was mixed with Sumireko's balls, and the one who did it probably expected someone to activate the lunar ball. Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
Indeed, which is what I meant by not manipulating Sumireko in particular - the creator of the balls propably didn't even know her either, otherwise Sumireko would have mentioned another person being involved when she was under pressure (regardless of whether Sumireko knew or agreed with said person's plans). And the only person who could possibly swap the ball by the time it was already in Sumireko's possession for a lunar one without her noticing (Mamizou's tanuki ball nonwithstanding) would be Yukari with her teleport powers (and she's certainly not "the lunatic from the moon who made the Lunar Capital impure") or maybe Toyohime. Still, swapping a ball already in Sumi's possession is not really an option either as Sumireko certainly would notice a ball having been swapped right away, as she knew the difference between the Lunar Capital ball and the other ones (which is why she opted for her suicidal last-ditch plan to begin with), but she likely has no idea about their origin.

So it's not much of a *manipulation* per se, although I do wonder how did the Lunar Capital ball ended up being mixed among the others - the mastermind would have to have huge influence here on earth to have spies that either investigated the other balls for her and told her of a perfect opportunity to mix one trap ball of her own *or* give her a detailed report on the concept of Outside World urban legends (in case the mastermind created ALL of the balls). That or maybe the Lunar Capital ball is the original one and someone else based the design of the other balls on the Lunar Capital ball (that the lunar mastermind dropped) - which would indicate 2 separate plans of 2 separate people and yet seems quite plausible.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:43:20 PM by Critz »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #862 on: July 03, 2015, 05:03:08 AM »
Um... how exactly are Eirin and Sakuya related again? Has it been hinted before that Sakuya's past has Eirin linked to it?

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Eirin_Yagokoro

Expand her Omperishable Night profile.

Quote from: Eirin's Profile
"Eirin is very surprised to see Sakuya, but only Eirin knows the reason why."

The fact that ZUN included "only Eirin knows the reason why" would imply it's something important, most likely.  And yet years later despite being teased with this, it was never expanded upon.

The only other interaction the two had besides Imperishable Night was Inaba of the Moon and the Earth where the two angrily glared at each other, with Reisen commenting there was a lot of tension, and... that's it.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #863 on: July 03, 2015, 07:19:29 AM »
Quote
As for the parallel realities theory, I can't see neither ZUN pulling something like that out nor Curiosity being any more of a potential scare for lunarians than Apollo. I'm trying to rack my brain for the reason of why Hiriji would be involved though - the UFO motif and her finding the balls dangerous in ULiL don't really amount to anything.

Zun did Seihou sometime... Also, Touhou 3, Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream, alternate endings in Ten Desires. So, I don't quite see how parallel timelines is all that out of this world.

Quote
Well, if the occult ball comes from the Moon, that ghost or phantom must have had a way to reach it.
If it's indeed someone from the earth, maybe it's caused by Yukari going YOLO that decided to play another prank to the lunarians, or Toyohime having some reason to cooperate with earthlings.
At the very least, i hope ZUN refrained from putting yet another one capable of traveling from the Moon to the Earth like Yukari and Toyohime, because it's partially what makes those two unique.

Yukari never goes YOLO (You Only Live Once). It just isn't in her personality. She is similar to Eirin in this way. They both plan things, YOLO is not for them. Remilia would go YOLO, but not Yukari.

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #864 on: July 03, 2015, 05:33:38 PM »
Zun did Seihou sometime... Also, Touhou 3, Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream, alternate endings in Ten Desires. So, I don't quite see how parallel timelines is all that out of this world.

Yukari never goes YOLO (You Only Live Once). It just isn't in her personality. She is similar to Eirin in this way. They both plan things, YOLO is not for them. Remilia would go YOLO, but not Yukari.

Seihou if canon would be the outside world though, and Samidare didn't have anything to do with ZUN nor the Seihou crew, though maybe I'm missing something here.
PoDD was future related which isn't exactly the same case as parallel timelines.
Depending on the theory of course.


Personally, the whole from another timeline thing never really works well, I'd hate it if that's the case here.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #865 on: July 04, 2015, 12:02:04 AM »
Indeed, which is what I meant by not manipulating Sumireko in particular - the creator of the balls propably didn't even know her either, otherwise Sumireko would have mentioned another person being involved when she was under pressure (regardless of whether Sumireko knew or agreed with said person's plans). And the only person who could possibly swap the ball by the time it was already in Sumireko's possession for a lunar one without her noticing (Mamizou's tanuki ball nonwithstanding) would be Yukari with her teleport powers (and she's certainly not "the lunatic from the moon who made the Lunar Capital impure") or maybe Toyohime. Still, swapping a ball already in Sumi's possession is not really an option either as Sumireko certainly would notice a ball having been swapped right away, as she knew the difference between the Lunar Capital ball and the other ones (which is why she opted for her suicidal last-ditch plan to begin with), but she likely has no idea about their origin.

So it's not much of a *manipulation* per se, although I do wonder how did the Lunar Capital ball ended up being mixed among the others - the mastermind would have to have huge influence here on earth to have spies that either investigated the other balls for her and told her of a perfect opportunity to mix one trap ball of her own *or* give her a detailed report on the concept of Outside World urban legends (in case the mastermind created ALL of the balls). That or maybe the Lunar Capital ball is the original one and someone else based the design of the other balls on the Lunar Capital ball (that the lunar mastermind dropped) - which would indicate 2 separate plans of 2 separate people and yet seems quite plausible.

You seem to be making some weird assumptions about what "manipulation" means. There's definitely a middle ground between "she was in on it" and "they just dumped the orb somewhere and she happened to be the one who picked it up." More likely, they noticed that someone was gathering Occult Balls and created a fake ebay account or whatever just to sell it to her. Sumireko wouldn't think there was anything strange about that, and the mastermind would have a bit more control over the course of events.

Or maybe you were imagining a much weirder methodology for Sumireko gathering the orbs than I was.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #866 on: July 04, 2015, 12:57:58 AM »
Here's ZUN's circle cut for C88. (Apologies if this was already posted somewhere.)



"Legacy passes into the future!"

Kaizaki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #867 on: July 04, 2015, 03:47:27 AM »
[...] the invasion is the result of this alternative timeline.
Days later and I finally understood where people got the parallel timelines idea. I fail at expressing myself. Apologies. *shakes head*

[...] an illusion caused by the urban legend thing [...]
My theory is more in line with the above. Not really a parallel timeline, per se.

I think the easiest way to explain my thoughts is to compare this urban legend effect as similar to, but not the same as, Keine's ability. Her power in human form doesn't actually erase history, but merely hides it. In a similar vein, the moon hoax coming true would just overshadow the events of Apollo, but not undo them.

Here's hoping I don't confuse or mislead people some more.

Speaking of Keine, she and Doremy are pretty similar, with the eating, creating and primary association with a mythical creature. Ooh, and the fact that they're both Stage 3 bosses too.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 05:14:02 AM by Kaizaki »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #868 on: July 04, 2015, 05:42:48 AM »
Here's ZUN's circle cut for C88. (Apologies if this was already posted somewhere.)

"Legacy passes into the future!"

There is something in the center of that pic that my eyes want to perceive as a gap.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #869 on: July 04, 2015, 05:55:42 AM »
There is something in the center of that pic that my eyes want to perceive as a gap.

It's got Yukari's ribbons on the ends too.