Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 231685 times)

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Monothemeerp

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #750 on: May 23, 2015, 11:22:28 am »
... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #751 on: May 23, 2015, 11:31:53 am »
I can see it now ... you slowly float up the screen during the spellcards, powerless to stop it, then drop to the bottom of the screen at the spellcard's end.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #752 on: May 23, 2015, 12:00:29 pm »
Well Utsuho's final spellcard has a gravity thing, where you're sucked towards the big sun in the middle. So a gravity gimmick wouldn't be unprecedented.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #753 on: May 23, 2015, 12:42:42 pm »
Well, x.5s are always fighting affairs... by which I mean all of the fighters have been an x.5, not that all x.5s have been fighters. I guess ZUN was already planning ULiL when he made ISC... and then he decided another game between a x.5 and a x.0 was unnecessary since ULiL is a direct prequel to LoLK.

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That said, who knows? Maybe it's just that 14.8 is in plans for later. Then again, maybe not.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #754 on: May 23, 2015, 01:22:39 pm »
Well Utsuho's final spellcard has a gravity thing, where you're sucked towards the big sun in the middle. So a gravity gimmick wouldn't be unprecedented.
That's true but it's only in one card. It dragging over the whole battle would be pure evil.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #755 on: May 23, 2015, 01:29:54 pm »
12.3

That said, who knows? Maybe it's just that 14.8 is in plans for later. Then again, maybe not.
Yeah. One can still hope.
There's not even a need for a possible 14.8 to be related to ULiL/LoLK plotline. IaMP came after IN despite happening before, and had no relation to IN.
Looks also like xx.3 and xx.8 games are really minor events compared to the others, and for what we know ZUN could make a game starring Rumia dodging incoming trees in the darkness, or Mystia throwing grilled eels to people while collecting yakitori.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #756 on: May 23, 2015, 01:39:48 pm »
... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

You just made me imagine a Touhou Isaac Newton. Again, the moon wouldn't be a likely environment to find him, if anything, he's more of a Patchouli-like being.

Neil Armstrong anyone?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #757 on: May 23, 2015, 01:44:46 pm »
Some bosses reappears in several stages to put up a fight, some bosses are their own midbosses,  some people are fought around the place they live, etc... I don't think there is a set pattern for the midboss appearance because there is way too much diversity. The lack of stage 6 midboss for the religion related final boss is as close as a pattern you can get.
Not really on topic, but there is one pattern that's consistant- stage 4 midbosses are different from the stage 4 boss. The only exceptions are IN and TD, though in TD Seiga is alone for her midboss fight while she has Yoshika with her for the boss fight. IN's midboss is different from normal midbosses for several other reasons- it's the only midboss with 4 patterns, the only midboss that changes the theme, and the only stage 4 midboss with dialogue.

Are the games officially numbered 14.3 then 14.5 then 15? Because that seems a bit unusual...
It is strange though I guess it's still possible for ZUN to make 14.8 after 15. It wouldn't be the first time, though it would be odd.

On a different note, I think Ringo's spells are a lot harder than Doremy's. Ringo's are mostly tons of spam coming from every direction, so there aren't any tricks to make it easier. Doremy has extremely complex patterns but once you know their tricks they aren't really that hard. The non spells are about equal in difficulty.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 02:12:13 pm by TresserT »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #758 on: May 23, 2015, 04:16:26 pm »
IaMP came after IN because fighting games take forever to make. It doesn't prove anything.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #759 on: May 23, 2015, 04:49:46 pm »
Yo guys, I have been thinking about this for awhile and I was wondering if anybody else may have noticed this as well.

From the trial version that we have so far, is anybody noticing a distinct food motif with this game?

For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

It will be interesting to see if this leads to something in the full game.  :munch:

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #760 on: May 23, 2015, 09:26:17 pm »
Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. [...]
Pre-release speculations are one honking great fun---let's do more of those!

In the Prolog, Eirin says,
Quote
"If they're making a move, no humans will possibly be able to compete with them.
But if we stand against them, we'll be playing right into their hands.
Moreover, the youkai of Earth likely can't even interfere to begin with."
The passage reads as if they are luring Eientei (Eirin and Kaguya) out, by forcing their hand as the only ones capable of resistance. This is compounded by the former's notions that youkai (likely) can't help, nor can humans fend the invaders off. (This seems to mirror their predicament at the beginning of IN, when they had to deal with matters themselves. Of course, Eirin---with her genius and preparedness---took the way out by enabling select humans to do so.)

We learn in Bougetsushou that the Lunar Capital are still looking for Eientei, the responsibility of which falls on the Watatsukis. It's possible that, in addition to purifying the Earth, the invasion is a means of capturing them. It seems like taking them to the Capital holds a purpose, despite the Earth already being an impure prison. (Close to the mad person, perhaps? Research into obtaining absolute immortality? The drinkers of the Elixir aren't impure?)

Having written the above, I realised that the Earth purification would lead to the same condition, i.e., Eientei would be within reach of the Capital. Instead of bringing them to purity, they bring purity to them.



Regarding the Watatsukis, Toyohime states that she and her sister are "the most closely-related" to Earth matters, so they would have some involvement with recent events. But their stance has always been defensive, and they expressed no desire in capturing their master and the princess, if the latter is indeed one of the goals. Story-wise, either they won't put much effort into it, like what others said, or they were stopped from interfering, e.g., made powerless, stripped from their titles and duties.

The link between ULiL and LoLK appears to be the ball from the Lunar Capital, which connects a place to presumably the latter (see Clarste's ULiL plot summary; contains spoilers). The chaos in the Capital and perhaps the invasion are caused by one lunatic, which hints at this person's very high rank and status. According to Toyohime, when Earth discovered that reality is based on probabilities and gained the potential to reach the Capital, she named one person who was particularly affected. Is the mad person perhaps their Lord Tsukuyomi?

Tsukuyomi is the one who realised that impurity drains life on the Earth, and left with his trusted relatives for the Moon. Coupled with the threat of further defilement, rectifying what originally drove him out sounds like a legitimate move. Maybe the title Lunatic Kingdom is a hint in this direction? (I can imagine his affairs becoming worse when he no longer had Eirin's intellect to rely on. And I'm not saying we'll definitely get a male boss; there's always the first time, but ZUN can just throw in a twist and have us fight someone else instead, say his sister, Amaterasu.)

For more details, CiLR's third chapter discusses significant topics and seems very relevant IMHO.



@HalfGrand: Doremy and sweets for me. :V If I were to go by my theory, there is another connection: Amaterasu became angry with Tsukuyomi when he killed Uke Mochi, the goddess of food.
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Starxsword

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #761 on: May 23, 2015, 10:36:44 pm »
Am I the only one who doesn't want the Watatsuki sisters in a Touhou game? ZUN himself said that they were 3OP5Touhou.
To be frank, I find having them show up as bosses in a Touhou game would be very disappointing in ways I cannot exactly pin down.

Zun says a lot of things, so you shouldn't take it all as facts. It isn't like this is the first time that the protagonist "lose" in story scenarios, even if they win. Great Fairy Wars and several other games do this.

Quote
In CiLR they effortlessly beaten the heroines. Storywise they cannot fit because that would entail the heroines need to beat them and beating the leaders and princess of the Lunar Capital is a huge discomfort for them. I don't think Eirin will also enjoy this. This isn't about the " power levels ", but about the relationship and nature of Lunarians and the story about the early two invasions.

Yorihime effortlessly beat Marisa and Sakuya. Not so for Remilia and Reimu. It kind of depends on what the take is, as we don't know how act 4+ will pan out.

Will Eirin want to see her pupils get defeated? It kind of depends. Does Eirin want to instill some humility on them?

Quote
Then again I don't know if there's some rule that Yukari can be the series' only phantasm boss, but if anyone the sisters seem like they'd fit the tier pretty well.

Maybe Phantasm was added, because Extra boss is unrelated to the events, but Phantasm is related.

Quote
while the dream world and its new settings is canon and modern and might even allow to do new kind of speculations that the PC-98 dream world (with questionable canon value) didn't allow to make, like, maybe Merry's popular time travel theory is related to the dream world and that she- wow, derailing averted. Anyway, with this, the dream world isn't getting retconned, but the rest are still not certain.

I wonder if you will have some dialogue with Yuuka, since dream world is kind of her thing and she is a current Windows character.

Quote
Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

Suika already did that in Immaterial and Missing Power, so I don't know how unique that would be.

Quote
(I can imagine his affairs becoming worse when he no longer had Eirin's intellect to rely on. And I'm not saying we'll definitely get a male boss; there's always the first time, but ZUN can just throw in a twist and have us fight someone else instead, say his sister, Amaterasu.)

Yeah, I don't think you are fighting Amaterasu.

Phasm

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #762 on: May 23, 2015, 10:47:55 pm »
Doremi stated that the Lunar Capital itself, is becoming impure as well, thanks to all the mess that the culprit has created, could the culprit actually want to cause chaos on the Lunar Capital on purpose so that she might become it's new ruler or something else.

If my theory is right, then maybe Yorihime and Toyohime might understand the culprit's plot and allow Reimu and company to move on, or maybe they will pull an Aya so as to not raise suspicion.

Also i am really looking forward to the interactions with Reisen and the Lunarians.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 11:06:26 pm by UnidentifiedPhantasm »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #763 on: May 24, 2015, 05:46:37 am »
I wouldn't mind seeing the war that Yukari launched against the moon a thousand years ago be addressed. It's such a prime opportunity for some more info on it.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #764 on: May 24, 2015, 02:57:28 pm »
Suika already did that in Immaterial and Missing Power, so I don't know how unique that would be.
Suika manipulates density, not gravity.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #765 on: May 24, 2015, 03:18:22 pm »
Yo guys, I have been thinking about this for awhile and I was wondering if anybody else may have noticed this as well.

From the trial version that we have so far, is anybody noticing a distinct food motif with this game?

For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

It will be interesting to see if this leads to something in the full game.  :munch:

Ringo's spell cards involve Dango, except for her last one~
And her power is "to be strong enough to eat Dango" or something like that.


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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #766 on: May 24, 2015, 03:28:26 pm »
Yes there is. The difficulty levels are described using how much effort it takes to chew them.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #767 on: May 24, 2015, 11:52:08 pm »
Quote
Suika manipulates density, not gravity.

It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Quote
For example, Seiran was pounding mochi when the heroine ambushed her. Ringo's ability is literally growing stronger from eating dango and is eating all the way through the battle. Doremy seems to be all about eating dreams, since she is a baku.

I haven't played the trial version yet since I'm waiting for the full release, but has there been any mention of food in spellcards or anything in the stages that hints of food?

That's pretty interesting. This seems like a parallel to Yuyuko's route in Imperishable Night.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #768 on: May 25, 2015, 02:09:05 am »
And, of course, if this game has anything to do with the Hourai Elixir, well, that's something that gets imbibed.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #769 on: May 25, 2015, 04:23:04 am »
Surprised no one mentioned how great the events of th15 would fit the plot of KoishiKHTA.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #770 on: May 25, 2015, 06:54:48 am »
Surprised no one mentioned how great the events of th15 would fit the plot of KoishiKHTA.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #771 on: May 25, 2015, 08:36:57 am »
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

I feel like that's a more practical aspect way of looking at it rather than how it would work in an actual danmaku game. (Then again, Suika hasn't been in a main game and we won't see her in one, most likely) I more had the thought Tengukami had, or the same but just with the bullets.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #772 on: May 25, 2015, 12:00:10 pm »
Yes there is. The difficulty levels are described using how much effort it takes to chew them.

I'm curious, so what do the difficulties say?


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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #773 on: May 25, 2015, 04:09:50 pm »
From thcrap translation:

Easy
Well, this should take just one bite.
Normal
Firm and crunchy.
Hard
Your jaw will get tired from chewing this.
Lunatic
Please do not eat.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #774 on: May 25, 2015, 04:11:36 pm »
Lunatic
Please do not eat.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #775 on: May 25, 2015, 04:25:14 pm »
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Well, to be exact, her ability is only density manipulation (gather/disperse things). It can be used to create a suction force of some sort, but it cannot change how gravity operates on other things. It really depends on how you define "gravity manipulation", though.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #776 on: May 25, 2015, 06:31:59 pm »
It doesn't look like Suika only manipulates density, seems more like mass and density to me. And that affects gravity. Unless you ignore physics, mass manipulation and gravity are pretty much the same thing. You can see her creating miniature black holes in the fighting games.

Density is just the ratio between mass and volume, so control of density automatically covers mass anyway.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #777 on: May 25, 2015, 07:19:07 pm »
Remind me, what was the point of this extended sidebar about the nature of density, mass and gravity again?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #778 on: May 25, 2015, 07:40:56 pm »
Remind me, what was the point of this extended sidebar about the nature of density, mass and gravity again?

... An evil thought just occured to me. Because every stage 5 boss has an unique gimmick, I just got an idea that maybe we're going to get Gravity Manipulation (with being on the Moon and all). Sounds scary.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #779 on: May 26, 2015, 12:42:55 pm »
I wonder if you will have some dialogue with Yuuka, since dream world is kind of her thing and she is a current Windows character.

Yeah, I don't think you are fighting Amaterasu.

Amaterasu is actually somewhat likely if you know the history between her and her brother, a simple change from never wanting to see him again to wanting to ruin his paradise sounds pretty fitting.

Yuuka was simply the Youkai who lived there and as far as we know she doesn't live there anymore,but that doesn't exclude Elly and Kurumi, but they shouldn't really care about anything going on.
If anyone from the dream world is relevant it would probably be the sisters, I'd like to see some clarity on the whole dream world management thing.



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