Author Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 347514 times)

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #720 on: May 21, 2015, 10:23:43 PM »
Probably because you're fighting Mokou, and the BGM changes to "Bamboo Forest in Flames". I think that's a reasonable assumption, if you're not playing the game while you read it.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #721 on: May 22, 2015, 07:03:45 AM »
@Quils,

Yes. After my post I started digging through the profiles of the Eientei household and started skimming/re-reading CiLR. I kind of got obsessed with LoLK story and have to wait for the prologue in the full version to see whether my guessing is correct.

Regarding the prologue of LoLK (my own guessing)
When Rei`Sen fell from the sky, Tewi did indeed confirm to Reimu that it wasn't one of them. Eirin also explained that Tewi knows all Earthling rabbits thoroughly and thus has no doubt in Tewi's statement. Before Reimu visited, Reisen questioned whether Tewi shouldn't be scolded or not for doing w/e she pleases.

So, we know that Tewi is the leader and they only obey her no matter what. This means Tewi is in an ultimate position to gather intel in Gensoukyo, especially bamboo forest. We know that Reisen frequently talks with the Lunar Rabbits and Eirin frequently is requesting her to gather intel. The 2nd Lunarian Invasion planned by Yukari but before known as 'an invasion from earth' was also caught using Reisen's abilities. The Lunar Rabbits are described generally as docile and order obeying creatures, but the case of Rei`Sen and Reisen were showing that some of them 'break out' or want to break out. Reisen was also described as unique with high capabilities but had two negative traits which made her a 'bad soldier' according to the sisters (cowardliness and selfishness). Anyway...

This means Eirin has supreme intel on both ends + allies on both ends. The Watatsuki sisters are allied to Eirin which is clearly shown and told in CiLR. I am guessing the Prologue will show this intel gathering or the sisters somehow managed to contact Eientei.

Based on this, I am slowly drawing a conclusion that Tewi intentionally let Seiran and Ringo infiltrate the Earthling rabbits so Eirin could monitor the Lunar Capital's rumors/stories like she always did. And based on the intel gathered she asked an important favour to our heroines.

Reimu and Marisa show pro-actively there is an incident as they operate under the favour asked from Eirin. Reisen logically operates under orders from 'her Master'. Sanae again sounds like she is tagging along like she did in UFO.

I don't think we will see the sisters as potential bosses. If they are allied to Lady Yagokoro (as they speak of her), they won't fight her or her friends (Which they have met before any way and fought). They might show up in the story lines or maybe mentioned as dialogues.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #722 on: May 22, 2015, 09:45:24 AM »
Well, Ringo *did* involve Youkai Mountain by invading, so Sanae has the reason to look into the metal spider and it's passengers.
As for Watatsukis, them testing the protagonists' strength or pulling an Aya ("I have to fight you to keep up apperances, but I won't bother going all-out") is always an option. So is Extra Stage. From the meta point of view, LoLK is propably the best if not the only occasion to actually make the "too strong to be in a game" Watatsuki sisters into bosses, as the advantage of the Ultramarine Medicine could let the protagonists stand up to them.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #723 on: May 22, 2015, 11:19:29 AM »
Am I the only one who doesn't want the Watatsuki sisters in a Touhou game? ZUN himself said that they were 3OP5Touhou.
To be frank, I find having them show up as bosses in a Touhou game would be very disappointing in ways I cannot exactly pin down.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #724 on: May 22, 2015, 11:25:48 AM »
"Am I the only one" sounds like all of us want them to be in the game. I cannot recall my posts stating I want them in nor out.

Of course large number of people are hoping for them to be in. Just like how many people hope for Mima to be in.

The princesses being in the game wouldn't be disappointing but unfitting and hard to work with as a story line. Bosses appearing have usually a motive / drive. It is already said a madman is possible the incident for LoLK and my post above guesses that they won't be appearing.

Edit: Though the princesses are the leaders of the Lunar Rabbit squadron and holding firm training. They could be involved in the story line as said but not appear as bosses themselves. Defeating them would be problematic for the Lunar Capital.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 11:27:24 AM by Helepolis »

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #725 on: May 22, 2015, 12:07:05 PM »
"Am I the only one" sounds like all of us want them to be in the game. I cannot recall my posts stating I want them in nor out.

Of course large number of people are hoping for them to be in. Just like how many people hope for Mima to be in.

The princesses being in the game wouldn't be disappointing but unfitting and hard to work with as a story line. Bosses appearing have usually a motive / drive. It is already said a madman is possible the incident for LoLK and my post above guesses that they won't be appearing.

Edit: Though the princesses are the leaders of the Lunar Rabbit squadron and holding firm training. They could be involved in the story line as said but not appear as bosses themselves. Defeating them would be problematic for the Lunar Capital.
Story wise it wouldn't be too hard to put them in. Like Critz said, they could be half-assing it in stage 4. If the madman is running the Lunar Capital now she (the madman) had to take power somehow, so beating them can't be that problematic. Especially if they make it obvious that they're not going all out. They could also be extra bosses fighting for fun or something.

I can imagine the Watatsukis being underwhelming if done poorly, but I can also imagine them being awesome if done right. The way Seiran, Ringo, and Doremy's attacks have been I don't think the Watatsukis would be very fun in this game, but I hope they show up and I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #726 on: May 22, 2015, 12:19:53 PM »
The Watatsukis are troublesome to be fititng in this game. In CiLR they effortlessly beaten the heroines. Storywise they cannot fit because that would entail the heroines need to beat them and beating the leaders and princess of the Lunar Capital is a huge discomfort for them. I don't think Eirin will also enjoy this. This isn't about the " power levels ", but about the relationship and nature of Lunarians and the story about the early two invasions.

Of course we can endlessly debate about this but it will all remain wild guessing. I am more like personally obsessed by Seiran/Ringo's presence in Gensoukyo + the actual job Tewi is comitting for Eientei. Even though she has some what of a profile and usually portrait as prankster / annoying, she is actually quite helpful in general protective.


Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #727 on: May 22, 2015, 12:27:25 PM »
Story wise it wouldn't be too hard to put them in. Like Critz said, they could be half-assing it in stage 4. If the madman is running the Lunar Capital now she (the madman) had to take power somehow, so beating them can't be that problematic. Especially if they make it obvious that they're not going all out. They could also be extra bosses fighting for fun or something.

I can imagine the Watatsukis being underwhelming if done poorly, but I can also imagine them being awesome if done right. The way Seiran, Ringo, and Doremy's attacks have been I don't think the Watatsukis would be very fun in this game, but I hope they show up and I hope I'm wrong.


Except if the Watatsuki Sisters were beaten, then the culprit is even stronger than them, so that means that Reimu and the others, desperately need the UltraMarine Medicine. Maybe the Watatsuki Sisters and the culprit are related or something.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #728 on: May 22, 2015, 12:31:00 PM »
Ugh, yes, "Am I the only one who [X]" is getting tired in this thread, as often as it's been evoked.

I am on the fence about the Watas being in the game. On the one hand, it's neat seeing literary characters appear in a game. On the other hand, it would probably have to involve some kind of nerf or buff that would just seem shoehorned in. I cannot imagine these Lunarians, with their sneering disgust for Earthlings, being shruggo about fighting and holding back in some way.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 05:43:06 PM by Tengukami »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #729 on: May 22, 2015, 12:39:28 PM »
pulling an Aya ("I have to fight you to keep up apperances, but I won't bother going all-out") is always an option.

Doremy already did that, so I doubt ZUN will repeat this pattern.

I really can't predict what he will do. Watatsukis are too strong to appear as bosses, and they can't lose on purpose - it will make lunarians think they are planning rebellion. On the other hand, they have to appear as bosses since, technically, earthlings are invading the Moon, and it's their duty to fight invaders.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #730 on: May 22, 2015, 02:25:52 PM »
I'm guessing that they will be having cameo appearances in the endings and mentions in the dialogue of the game. To me that seems the most likely to happen.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #731 on: May 22, 2015, 07:07:43 PM »
If the Watatsuki sisters were in the game I'd honestly only see them ranking as Phantasm bosses considering their strength, the extra boss being someone like Reisen, like how PCB's extra was a direct subordinate to the Phantasm. A way to get around "Beating the watatsukis = trouble in the lunar capital" could be to make the fight last like a phantasm fight but end as a draw? I don't know, my best guess is that even though the sisters decimated Marisa/Reimu, the protagonists could've grown stronger since the last time they fought the sisters. Then again I don't know if there's some rule that Yukari can be the series' only phantasm boss, but if anyone the sisters seem like they'd fit the tier pretty well.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #732 on: May 22, 2015, 07:33:34 PM »
Have the sisters show up after they've just gotten into a fight with the mad man and thus clearly not at full power. *shrug*  There are probably tons of excuses ZUN could make up if he wanted to. (question being whether or not he does)

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #733 on: May 22, 2015, 10:26:20 PM »
Honestly, we should just deal with all of the speculation, no matter how... ridiculous you may think it is, until it gets confirmed/discredited by the actual release itself.

I think the sisters showing up would be neat, however I really do feel it's better they have a limited appearance rather than full-on boss appearances. Still, I am awfully curious to see how they'd fight in the gameplay environment - let's face it, one of the reasons they won is because they were in a LITERARY one and weren't bound to the laws of gameplay/story division on top of, well, being the kind of beings they are.

As I'm saying... we'll just have to see what happens in August! BV
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #734 on: May 22, 2015, 10:40:37 PM »
I still think that if they showed up they'd have to be extra bosses, and therefore all these concerns about the plot are totally irrelevant. And you're all silly for talking about them. They could also do the Fairy Wars thing and have them them technically "win" even after the player beats the stage, and indicated by them not appearing beat up in their portraits.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #735 on: May 23, 2015, 12:22:05 AM »
If the Wata sisters show up as Extra/Phantasm bosses, they'll be the first double Extra stage boss (2 bosses at the same time, like the Prisimrivers, the Faries of Light, and the Tsukumos in DDC Extra).
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #736 on: May 23, 2015, 12:30:49 AM »
I still think that if they showed up they'd have to be extra bosses, and therefore all these concerns about the plot are totally irrelevant. And you're all silly for talking about them.

Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. Plus you can bookmark your post and, if it turns out you were right, you can claim victory for your prescience publicly.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #737 on: May 23, 2015, 12:35:37 AM »
Speculations pre-full-release are always silly, which is also why they are fun. Plus you can bookmark your post and, if it turns out you were right, you can claim victory for your prescience publicly.

I know someone who correctly predicted that Yuyuko would be the stage 1 boss of the next Touhou game, which turned out to be TD.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #738 on: May 23, 2015, 12:44:36 AM »
Wow, kudos to that person. Seeing Yuyuko as a Stage 1 boss sure took me by surprise, as I'm sure it did a lot of people.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #739 on: May 23, 2015, 01:30:43 AM »
Did anybody predict the return of Kogasa in TD?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #740 on: May 23, 2015, 02:33:04 AM »
Did anybody predict the return of Kogasa in TD?
I guess it was a SURPRISE for them when they found out

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #741 on: May 23, 2015, 03:23:04 AM »
Speaking of characters, am I the only one who finds it weird that there are no seperate mid-boss characters so far? Seiren, Ringo, and Doremy are both the midboss and the bosses of their stages, which is a little unusual given the past of previous games first 3 stages.

EoSD: Daiyousei in Stage 2
PCB: Cirno in Stage 1
IN: Okay, you got me here. (Inb4 lunar conspiracy)
MoF: Shizuha Aki in stage 1
SA: Kisume in Stage 1
UFO: Okay, you got me here again.
TD: Nameless spirit in Stage 1, Kogasa in Stage 3
DDC: Cirno (Again) in Stage 1

So, not as unknown as I thought.... maybe it's a pattern of every three games, no new midboss characters?
Why... why must weak humans destroy their world? Why can they not preserve that which they see so dear to them? Why must all life perish before immortality?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #742 on: May 23, 2015, 03:35:55 AM »
Speaking of characters, am I the only one who finds it weird that there are no seperate mid-boss characters so far? Seiren, Ringo, and Doremy are both the midboss and the bosses of their stages, which is a little unusual given the past of previous games first 3 stages.

EoSD: Daiyousei in Stage 2
PCB: Cirno in Stage 1
IN: Okay, you got me here. (Inb4 lunar conspiracy)
MoF: Shizuha Aki in stage 1
SA: Kisume in Stage 1
UFO: Okay, you got me here again.
TD: Nameless spirit in Stage 1, Kogasa in Stage 3
DDC: Cirno (Again) in Stage 1

So, not as unknown as I thought.... maybe it's a pattern of every three games, no new midboss characters?

Why would you find it weird if you just pointed out not every game must have a midboss character??

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #743 on: May 23, 2015, 05:43:36 AM »
Why would you find it weird if you just pointed out not every game must have a midboss character??
I dunno... I just find it a little strange for some reason, Like I'm more used to midboss characters being there than... not being there.
Why... why must weak humans destroy their world? Why can they not preserve that which they see so dear to them? Why must all life perish before immortality?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #744 on: May 23, 2015, 08:00:26 AM »
There is no real pattern. Cirno appeared in DDC as midboss because the heroines were travelling the misty lake and Cirno lives/moves around there. In DDC, the first 3 stages were existing places we had visited before in the past games. As said, bosses appearing or midbosses appearing have to "fit" the story line some how. That includes the stages themselves.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #745 on: May 23, 2015, 08:37:59 AM »
And, of course, previous game stage revisits aren't just a DDC thing, either - This game's's stage 1 being MoF's during a different season, and revisiting PCB Stage 5/6 in 10D's Stage 1.

...And then there's coincidentally returning to a PC-98 area in UFO (Makai), and now the Dream World here.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #746 on: May 23, 2015, 09:31:47 AM »
Some bosses reappears in several stages to put up a fight, some bosses are their own midbosses,  some people are fought around the place they live, etc... I don't think there is a set pattern for the midboss appearance because there is way too much diversity. The lack of stage 6 midboss for the religion related final boss is as close as a pattern you can get.

...And then there's coincidentally returning to a PC-98 area in UFO (Makai), and now the Dream World here.
Maybe the settings of these places might have been slightly improved compared to how they were before ? Like, we have Makai but no direct references to Shinki yet, meaning that Shinki (and the rest of PC-98 era cast for that matter...) is basically Schr?dinger's cat as far as canon goes ; while the dream world and its new settings is canon and modern and might even allow to do new kind of speculations that the PC-98 dream world (with questionable canon value) didn't allow to make, like, maybe Merry's popular time travel theory is related to the dream world and that she- wow, derailing averted. Anyway, with this, the dream world isn't getting retconned, but the rest are still not certain.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #748 on: May 23, 2015, 10:37:46 AM »
Are the games officially numbered 14.3 then 14.5 then 15? Because that seems a bit unusual...

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #749 on: May 23, 2015, 10:56:43 AM »
Well, x.5s are always fighting affairs... by which I mean all of the fighters have been an x.5, not that all x.5s have been fighters. I guess ZUN was already planning ULiL when he made ISC... and then he decided another game between a x.5 and a x.0 was unnecessary since ULiL is a direct prequel to LoLK.
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