Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 231697 times)

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #571 on: May 14, 2015, 12:52:01 pm »
So about Ringo.

Ringo = Apple
Ringo's Theme = Pumpkin of September / September Pumpkin
Ringo's Ability = Growing in strength by eating Dango
Ringo's Title = The Orange Eagle Ravi

A lot of round food themes going with this one! And she only uses round bullets in her danmaku (IIRC).

Yeah I just thought that this was pretty funny. She'll probably be portrayed as a lazy glutton in the fandom.

Soooo....dango is to Ringo as spinach is to Popeye?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #572 on: May 14, 2015, 01:24:01 pm »
I don't know if this was mentioned here or not, but Reisen's bomb actually does have one certain time limit, and it is the end of the stage, as it doesn't seem to pass between stages.

Dem glitches though... the only one I encountered was the stage 2 boss hitbox glitch. I was really surprised when I looked up on the screen for a second, and there was a giant hitbox graphic there, I think it was on the boss. Either that or fixed place.

About the 'how did they find another way to get to the moon' question, I have another theory. Even though ZUN said to ignore PC98 stuff when talking about canon Gensokyo (Something like that) , the last times the 'Dream World' was mentioned in Touhou was SoEW stage 3 , and LLS stages 3 to 6 and its Extra stage. If anyone remembers what Yuuka says to Reimu in the final stage, that was something like 'In a few hours you'll become a mist of atoms' (I know, it's not really precise) , meaning that the dream world, by itself, is quite hazardous, at least to Humans. Probably it did exist, but it clearly wasn't the preferred method of getting to the moon.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #573 on: May 14, 2015, 01:32:05 pm »
Back from the moonland it self, I finally got to actually try out LoLK for the first time after obtaining a copy. Installing from CD feels so weird these days :V

But only to discover getting my ass kicked by the game as it is noticeable harder on all difficulties. The sprites glitching so far I mostly noticed with Marisa when I did a quickplay with all four characters. I've seen the hitbox sprite too but this one obstructed my vision primarily a lot :V

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Edit Also the weird SFX suddenly happening in Stage 1 BGM I thought were hammer-swing sounds of Seiran. But listening to the BGM it self, it is being present. Feels bit off, haha but non the less, the Stage 1 BGM is super hyping again. I haven't felt this amount of power in a BGM since UFO. ZUN did a good job again in living up to his own interview about design.

Edit 2 considering it, could be intended by ZUN as she is carrying a mochi-pounding hammer. And Seiran appears exactly at the point where this "SFX" is heard.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:37:34 pm by Helepolis »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #574 on: May 14, 2015, 01:41:38 pm »
My first thought when I saw Doremy is that the overall design looks similar to a fan character made here. Anyone remember Mirai? Minus the dream catcher and tail of course.

In other news, Normal feels a little too hard for me...

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #575 on: May 14, 2015, 06:25:18 pm »
Somebody Else who has Problems recording the Games replay with FRAPS? Whenever i get to the second Spirit spawn on Stage 2, the Record really likes to Stopmotion on my Computer (Win 7 /  6GB RAM)

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #576 on: May 14, 2015, 06:49:59 pm »
As seen earlier in this thread, the Dream World in LLS Extra does have a moon far in the background, but I'm not sure from pc98 if the Dream World is just huge or separated into different spaces, and since Mugetsu/Gengetsu apparently claimed to be masters of the realm, it may not be the same place as the one in LoLK.
If the current arc follows the same theme, I suppose only specific planes of the Dream World can lead to the moon. (Unless Doremy did state something different.)

Also, is it stated how Seiran's ability works?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 06:55:33 pm by Darkness1 »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #577 on: May 14, 2015, 08:13:19 pm »
So guys, I just thought of a few things related to the full version. (all of them are speculations, of course)

>It's possible Seiran and Ringo could return later in the game. Maybe as midbosses on stage 4 or 5, but this time in their homeland (the Moon) instead of Gensokyo. Similar to how Nazrin reappears later in UFO.

>The backgrounds of the later stages could involve a scenery of peach trees (like on SSiB), and the Chinese looking Lunar Capital. We might even see that Lunar Sea as well. It could be the first time we'd see a sea appearing as stage background.

>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

>Once the incident is over, I doubt the heroine will want to return to the moon on the Extra stage. So she could revisit the Dream World so the place would get more attention. Doremy could reappear as the EX midboss and the boss would be her stronger baku sister. She would have manipulation of nightmares as her ability as opposite to Doremy's manipulation of dreams.

...okay, I'll stop now. Sorry about the epileptic tree, it's just that those thoughts got in my mind and I wanted to share them. ^^;


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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #578 on: May 14, 2015, 08:43:05 pm »
Given the Apollo 11 references in the first three stages (Eagle rabbits, a "moon base" by a lake, the Apollo Meridian = LEM Eagle, the landing at the Sea of Tranquility aka Tranquility Base, and the Apollo program), it wouldn't surprise me to see a Dove (CSM: Columbia) and a third Moon Rabbit (three astronauts in each Apollo mission) in the full version.  Yet I do have to wonder why the same people who remarked on the oddity of invoking a sun god to reach the moon would do the same to reach the Earth.  Anyway, I'm probably just as wrong as when I looked for music references with Doremy, but the guessing is fun..

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #579 on: May 14, 2015, 08:57:36 pm »
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

I know this idea won't be popular with everyone, but I would totally love this.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #580 on: May 14, 2015, 09:28:55 pm »
Put two and two together, you can see that ZUN likes to use "dream world" as a device that allows travel between the worlds, and this isn't the first time he clues it in.
Games:
1.  In TH2, Genmukai (幻夢界) was used as a passageway to connect between Gensokyo and Makai, with Reimaden (霊魔殿) stuck in between.
2. In TH4, Mugenkan (夢幻館) is believed to be reachable by a certain dream world passage beneath Lake of Blood.
3. In TH4 Extra, the battle takes place on a certain dream world, which is created and managed by Gengetsu and Mugetsu.
4. In TH14.5, Sumireko can travel to Gensokyo from Outside world through her dreams quite liberally.
5. In TH15, Dream World is used to travel between Gensokyo and Lunar Capital.

Books / CDs:
1. Rinnosuke visits Outside World by daydreaming into it, forced back by Yukari.
2. Merry enters assumably in Gensokyo through dreaming, but brings materials from her "dream" to her own world.
3. Dreaming is used as a route for both Merry and Renko to enter TORIFUNE, located somewhere in space.
 
With recent developments, I can't help but feel that those who "dream of Gensokyo" are seldomly the ones chosen to part with it.  Maybe some humans in Gensokyo are the ones who ends up sleeping eternally until their last moment, who knows.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 10:01:44 pm by Sedrife »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #581 on: May 14, 2015, 10:11:18 pm »
I finally decided to grind out Lunatic on Pointdevice Mode since I was sick of not wanting to spoil what Stages 2 and 3 looked like lol. I'm pretty impressed with the rest of the demo gameplay-wise. I'd actually say that the overall difficulty of each of the three stages is kind of close together, they each have harder and easier parts, with perhaps a slight increase over the course of the game, which is a promising trend. Granted, I've been burned before when it comes to wishing the second half of a Touhou game would get even harder (*cough*TD*cough*), so we'll see. The waypoint system still doesn't feel particularly helpful when it comes to practicing individual attacks since you want to be able to (close to) immediately retry what you just did that actually worked. Now that I think about it, it's arguably more reminiscent of how MoF through UFO gave you infinite continues but put you back at the beginning of the stage, essentially giving you a means to get to later parts of the game in the first place but without the rewards from getting a traditional 1cc. I do like how it puts much more of a hard cap on how many resources you can get throughout the game though, especially after what happened with DDC.

While we're on the topic of random speculations, anyone else notice how Ringo has three nonspells? Afaik that's never happened in an official Touhou game before. What if ZUN decided to give some of the later bosses (namely, Stage 5 and 6) more nonspells too, a la The Last Comer? I think that would actually help those boss battles flow a bit better, rather than having them use 3 or 4 Spell Cards in a row like they've been wont to do lately.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #582 on: May 14, 2015, 10:36:57 pm »
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.

Well, there are two game modes now, so it could happen, Like beat [Final Boss A] on Pointdevice to unlock [Final Boss B] on Legacy or vice versa

While we're on the topic of random speculations, anyone else notice how Ringo has three nonspells? Afaik that's never happened in an official Touhou game before. What if ZUN decided to give some of the later bosses (namely, Stage 5 and 6) more nonspells too, a la The Last Comer? I think that would actually help those boss battles flow a bit better, rather than having them use 3 or 4 Spell Cards in a row like they've been wont to do lately.

I knew something was off with Ringo's fight. Things really are different now, we haven't seen a double midboss since Orin, and on stage 1 of all places; and then we have Doremy with four spellcards by default, the only other stage 3 boss with that many is Alice (since Keine and Meiling vary with difficulty)

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #583 on: May 15, 2015, 03:46:46 am »
It's also strange that Ringo doesn't have a midboss spell.

By grazing the shit out of nonspells you get a bonus equal if not better than a capture, so more nonspell sounds totally plausible.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #584 on: May 15, 2015, 11:03:53 am »
>Since this game is related to IN, I thought maybe we'd get dual final bosses again this time. Like how we got Final Boss A (Eirin) and Final Boss B (Kaguya) back then. It'd be really cool seeing this happen again if you ask me.
Before that, I wouldn't mind having two super-hard Stage 4 bosses again. Reimu and Sanae can fight Yorihime, their fellow shamaness; Marisa and Reisen can fight Toyohime (since that's how the four playable characters are grouped this time).
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #585 on: May 15, 2015, 12:54:13 pm »
Tch, literally discovered this on Wednesday night when I watched ARF's Seiran video and went, 'Huh, this fangame really ripped off Kogasa', and then I noticed '15'. I guess I like ignoring threads with moonrunes in the title.

Since then I ragequit Pointsomething mode after it turned out I was stuck with no bombs on the third boss. With Marisa. Gosh, it forced me to figure out the first spell on my own, and then I couldn't get through the second nonspell for some reason and I gave up. Must have been the fatigue, since I managed it no problem today. Or Marisa. I also figured out the second spell. Those spells sure make you feel superplayer when you cheese them, since cheesing them is the desired method and all. :fail:

EDIT: Huh, but the '15' was from Jaimers' video. Whatever, a combination of the two then.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 12:58:51 pm by BT »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #586 on: May 15, 2015, 02:28:17 pm »
I was thinking about pointdevice mode and Legacy mode in this game and I speculated something that would be wicked cool if it was implemented!

Seeing as how this incident is related to "purity" with the whole moon invasion and now that we have 2 game modes to play, imagine what this can be for the potential for a 1CC clear story-wise.

For example, you manage to 1CC the game on pointdevice mode... but because you have tainted yourself with the ultramarine orb medicine that Eirin gave you to achieve your 1CC, the stage 6 boss could say something like "you are unworthy to face me in my truest form, impure one" when you beat her and you get a normal happy ending.

Now, if you were to 1CC the game in Legacy mode in normal difficulty or above, you can prove to the one that is behind the moon invasion that you are a pure being just like they are that douse not need special medicine to stand up against the lunar defenses. Once you beat the regular stage 6 boss, the boss character will recognize your skill and/or "purity" and decide to unleash her "purest" form.

TRUE LAST BOSS!!!

It could be something like spiritual Larsa in Mushihime-sama Futari where you fight a beefed up version of the stage 6 character or another character entirely. Still, if your character beats the true last boss without continuing, you will get the true best ending that can be something really special.

Something like this would be groundbreaking and consistent with the increased difficulty of this game compared to the others. Someone like Jaimers would probably beat it like it was a pushover but to us normal people it would be a true test of our danmaku skills.

It would be fantastic if ZUN put in something like this... albeit very cruel and masochistic as well  :colonveeplusalpha:

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #587 on: May 15, 2015, 05:07:42 pm »
The fact that there are two game modes, and that it's a successor of Imperishable Night lore, does lend some credibility to the dual final boss idea. For the record, I'd personally love that.

If it were something as obvious as Chang'e, she's does have a husband called Houyi (with the first "Hou" written the same as in "Hourai"), who is an integral part of the Chang'e tale. The Watatsuki sisters are also a possibility, despite ZUN saying they're too OP for games at the time of Silent Sinner in Blue.

To be honest, I doubt it's either of those pairs, if it's gonna be a pair to begin with. They seem too obvious and deity-like. You didn't fight the Buddha in UFO, either, even if people could've guessed that based on the TH12 demo.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #588 on: May 15, 2015, 05:21:19 pm »
Damn, now from reading this thread I so want a TLB and/or dual boss. I do agree though that the fact that there's two modes opens up a lot of possibilities. Man, I really like how LoLK is pretty heavy story-wise. I'm excited.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #589 on: May 15, 2015, 05:21:57 pm »
The Watatsuki sisters are also a possibility, despite ZUN saying they're too OP for games at the time of Silent Sinner in Blue.

This time the players are cheating though, with the elixir of foresight, so it might be possible.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #590 on: May 15, 2015, 07:03:01 pm »
I still have great doubt that the Watatsuki sisters would work even with Pointdevice Mode. Afaik not too much was shown of what Toyohime could do, especially within the confines of the Spell Card rules, but the way Yorihime fought the heroines in SSiB was borderline circumventing the rules to begin with. ISC is probably the closest video game analogue to this, though it's the player that gets to break the rules in that game. The reason ZUN could get away with such a lopsided battle in a printed work like SSiB is because that battle wasn't even supposed to be the main conflict of the story. "Mental conflicts" are obviously perfectly viable in stories or story-based elements that you can't interact with directly. On the other hand, the nature of the Touhou video games as a medium pretty much requires that Spell Card battles, or some variation (i.e., how the side games experiment with mechanics), be the highlight of the user's interactions. Unless ZUN plans on introducing another new mechanic to get around the Watatsuki sisters effortlessly getting around the heroine's abilities, I have trouble seeing how the playable characters as they are now could feasibly tangle with that kind of boss. And no, Pointdevice Mode doesn't count. Pointdevice Mode is a "retry this attack you just died on until you clear it" mechanic, not a "bypass this attack completely" mechanic.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 07:06:12 pm by ふねん1 »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #591 on: May 15, 2015, 07:15:56 pm »
There's nothing weird about how Yorihime fights, she just spams bombs all the way through. Think of her as the player character going through a boss rush.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #592 on: May 15, 2015, 08:22:32 pm »
I'm not personally keen on the idea of a Yorihime/Toyohime boss fight. Because at this point it would be pretty obvious, and in the end it's one or two less new touhous. Sure we have plenty of touhous already, but still.

Plus, if Toyo and Yori were present, I think Yukari would be too.

I personally hope that the plot won't be as simple as '' defeat buns, travel to moon via dream werld, fight uberhoes in the moon! ''
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #593 on: May 15, 2015, 08:27:25 pm »
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.

They already play a very important part in the prologue. It's very much possible that they'll appear in endings. Especially Reisen's.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #594 on: May 15, 2015, 08:35:51 pm »
I'm also hoping for a Kaguya/Eirin cameo in the game! Though the chances of that happening are like, 0.
I kinda want to see the OTHER Reisen in there. Some characters needs more love (not sure about a ZUNart of her, though  :ohdear:)

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #595 on: May 15, 2015, 08:38:36 pm »
I'm not personally keen on the idea of a Yorihime/Toyohime boss fight. Because at this point it would be pretty obvious, and in the end it's one or two less new touhous. Sure we have plenty of touhous already, but still.

It is vitally important that all characters eventually show up in a game so we can get proper spellcards and individual theme songs.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #596 on: May 15, 2015, 08:41:54 pm »
It is vitally important that all characters eventually show up in a game so we can get proper spellcards and individual theme songs.

Just to be that guy, the Watatsukis already have a theme song "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic Blue". You could say they should both get their own theme, but the Prismrivers and the Tsukumos didn't.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #597 on: May 15, 2015, 08:47:07 pm »
Unless ZUN plans on introducing another new mechanic to get around the Watatsuki sisters effortlessly getting around the heroine's abilities, I have trouble seeing how the playable characters as they are now could feasibly tangle with that kind of boss.
Not only that. Story-wise, the enemies (from the moon at least) aren't really using spell cards to begin with. Despite Seiran and Ringo both using named attacks that "resemble spell cards", it's clear that they are on Earth to purify (kill) everything in their path, not fooling around. The attacks do have SC-like names only to give us a way to remember them (i think Sumireko is in the same situation), and the player is still able to dodge them because ZUN can't put enemies with game-breaking attacks.
Counting also that the second half of the game is certainly set on the Moon, where SC rules don't even exist (and even if they existed, the lunarians wouldn't let earthlings pass anyway, like Yorihime said in SSiB), there would be no way to limit the Watatsuki's abilities.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #598 on: May 15, 2015, 08:49:09 pm »
Just to be that guy, the Watatsukis already have a theme song "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic Blue". You could say they should both get their own theme, but the Prismrivers and the Tsukumos didn't.
Hmm, dunno, "Watatsuki's Spellcard ~ Lunatic  Blue" seems to be what "Strange Bird of the Moon, Illusion of Mysterious Cat" is for Renko and Merry. Seems more like a theme that fits the battle against Yorihime instead of an actual character theme to me, an individual theme would be most welcome for individuality's sake. The prismrivers and the Tsukumos may have a bit of personnalitey on their own but are not especially outstanding, so a more general theme seems about right for them, but the Watatsuki sisters DO have things going for them, be it different ability or distinct personnality. Opinion anyway.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #599 on: May 15, 2015, 09:16:55 pm »
Yorihime/Toyohime aren't going to be characters that we fight against in this game, main game or extra. A supposed "madman" is behind the incident on the moon so I call it that it's an entirely new character. Yorihime/Toyohime will most likely congratulate the heroine in their endings for helping overthrow the revolution on the moon and the madman will probably get banished to Gensokyo or something.

Could this incident be the uprising that the moon rabbit's were talking about in SSiB maybe? I forget if that was Yukari or if that was left ambiguous.

Yorihime/Toyohime might be attacking Gensokyo finally for Yukari drinking their age old sake  :D
 

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