Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 231689 times)

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Phantasmal

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #480 on: May 11, 2015, 04:20:08 am »
Petition to ask ZUN to rename this one to "ZUN Tests Your Greed."
Also, if you're having trouble with Sweet Doremy's last spell, then go all the way to the bottom, and stick to horizontal movement ONLY.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #481 on: May 11, 2015, 09:21:21 am »
Is there any trick to making Ringo's last spell less of Cannot see shit 「RNG Intensifies」?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #482 on: May 11, 2015, 10:24:24 am »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #483 on: May 11, 2015, 10:39:02 am »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

What do you mean exactly?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #484 on: May 11, 2015, 11:17:54 am »
What do you mean exactly?
Ever since Ten Desires, ZUN's works felt more and more like they're fan-made.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #485 on: May 11, 2015, 11:23:29 am »
I understand your point better now

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #486 on: May 11, 2015, 11:36:51 am »
I know this isn't all that interesting, but I found it worth it, to note at least once. We could always see the moon from the Dream World. We just didn't know how easy it could be to reach through there.



Also interesting how the moon is kinda shrouded in mist in Mugetsu's fight, as if there was a barrier in between you and it, that is overcome by defeating her. The red grid in the background of stage 3 could very well emulate that (and, if you want to be really squint you eyes, it could even represent Gengetsu's cross.)

On another note, Reisen mentions that Doremy is the strongest being in the dreamworld, so either the MuGen-Sisters are just not as strong as her, or "beeing the strongest" in the dreamworld refers more to Doremy's ability and not acutal battle strenght or the sisters were just a dream/nightmare.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #487 on: May 11, 2015, 12:26:03 pm »
I just realised how fun pointdevice mode makes scoring; all those crazy grazes you notice as a possibility, but don't dare actually doing them in a full run, are now possible, since you can try a spell card or anything really over and over until you get it just right. Is there any downside to just killing yourself if you mess up  a graze ? I know you lose 0.01 power, which might make some spells captured less fast and therefore lose a bit of spell card bonus, but besides that, is there anything to discourage you from that ?
Also I really hope the full version does have replays enabled for pointdevice mode. It'll be really sad otherwise.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #488 on: May 11, 2015, 01:41:07 pm »
Is there any trick to making Ringo's last spell less of Cannot see shit 「RNG Intensifies」?

Watched some replays this morning. It really seems like there's no "trick" beyond being good at dodging, though I've seen most folks hover about halfway between the bottom of the screen and Ringo.

Also, saw that the grazing "problem" (i.e. balancing grazing with building the shooting bonus) is relatively easy to rectify. Most of the better players seem to be killing everything in sight during stages, with moderate graze to keep items afloat for collection, but taking a different approach for bosses; shooting almost to the end of non-spells and spells and then grazing the shit out of bullets until there's like 3 seconds left on the timer, then blasting through. Both bombs and lives can be built up pretty effectively this way.

Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I don't know what this means.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #489 on: May 11, 2015, 01:44:27 pm »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 01:49:12 pm by TresserT »
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #492 on: May 11, 2015, 02:00:31 pm »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
I don't know what this means.
wat

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #493 on: May 11, 2015, 02:26:02 pm »
I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
So what you're saying that the danmaku isnt pretty anymore?
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #494 on: May 11, 2015, 02:26:11 pm »
I think the only thing I can associate with calling his works more 'fanmade-ish' is that uhm.

Ermm.......
Uh..

Yep got nothing on me too.  Maybe his grasp at anatomy has been getting better when compared to EoSD's..?

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #495 on: May 11, 2015, 02:32:26 pm »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?

I remember thinking like that when DDC demo came out, and I had such thoughts this time. I think what gives such impression is that patters are less "aesthetic" and more "formulatic". Like, there's less needless flair that has no effect on how you dodge stuff, but which made watching the patterns pleasant. Now it really is more about things you need to dodge and how you dodge them. There are fewer things that are done "just because". Not like there were no simplistic, bare-bones patterns in older games, but it feels like there are more of them now.

Also, the music sounds less like "synthesizer that tries to sound like a real thing" and more like "synthesizer that sounds like a synthesizer". Not a bad thing per se, but still feels like a downgrade.

I'd suggest you don't give such thoughts much weight. When full version of DDC came out, I took back my thoughts about it being fangame-ish. And it's always been like that - stage 4 is where the game shows its true colors, demo stages are kept simplistic on purpose.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #496 on: May 11, 2015, 02:49:04 pm »
Is it just me, or has ZUN's artwork also taken a couple steps down in quality? The ones from DDC were quite pretty and the anatomy was good, but the character artworks from LoLK look sort of...screwed up? Distorted? Not exactly sure how to put it. :S

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #497 on: May 11, 2015, 02:55:50 pm »
I remember thinking like that when DDC demo came out, and I had such thoughts this time. I think what gives such impression is that patters are less "aesthetic" and more "formulatic". Like, there's less needless flair that has no effect on how you dodge stuff, but which made watching the patterns pleasant. Now it really is more about things you need to dodge and how you dodge them. There are fewer things that are done "just because". Not like there were no simplistic, bare-bones patterns in older games, but it feels like there are more of them now.

More complicated, sure. But I feel like the patterns that have been shown that do that also end up looking great. I was pretty impressed by Doremy's second and third spell (then cried because it took me a while to beat them), honestly.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #498 on: May 11, 2015, 03:10:23 pm »
Maybe I'm simple when it comes to aesthetics, but I thought there were plenty of nice looking patterns in DDC, especially Seija's fight in general. I think all the bosses in LoLK have really nice looking attacks, mainly with Ringo and Doremy, but I do kind of like Seiren's patterns as well. I like the artwork too, but to me there's just something about Marisa that does feel... off? I can't really explain it too well.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #499 on: May 11, 2015, 03:11:04 pm »
But fan works are the most obnoxious at tossing needless flair around and using pretty patterns for the sake of looking pretty. I'm personally glad the pattern design has matured and became more like that of its peers (though to be fair "aesthetic" patterns was a problem with PCB and IN only; EoSD and the PC-98 games had very few of those).

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #500 on: May 11, 2015, 03:24:20 pm »
Yeah, I thought the art and bullet patterns in DDC were gorgeous.

And I also think ZUN's character designs are improving, in the sense that they look more "put together" and less like rough sketches, even though I'm aware they're hand drawn. I mean, he's ZUN, so the character art is always going to be wonky, but it looks like he takes a bit more time with them now.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #501 on: May 11, 2015, 03:26:32 pm »
Is it just me, or has ZUN's artwork also taken a couple steps down in quality? The ones from DDC were quite pretty and the anatomy was good, but the character artworks from LoLK look sort of...screwed up? Distorted? Not exactly sure how to put it. :S

ZUN's style has never been consistent, but there always was a "style" within each work. This one is no different. The only character art that looks weird no matter how you look at it is Ringo's.

I like the artwork too, but to me there's just something about Marisa that does feel... off? I can't really explain it too well.

She looks kinda stiff and uncomfortable on her broom. Certainly something not Marisa-like.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #502 on: May 11, 2015, 03:30:04 pm »
I have no idea what people saying that recent games feel fanmade mean. The games always felt very consistent in terms of music quality, interesting patterns, and general art direction to me.

Ya'll just losing it to nostalgia :V (this is a joke. i'm not being serious)

ZUN's style has never been consistent, but there always was a "style" within each work. This one is no different. The only character art that looks weird no matter how you look at it is Ringo's.
Outside of her left hand, the portrait seems fine to me... what looks weird on her besides that?
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #503 on: May 11, 2015, 03:30:22 pm »
Am I the only one that feels that ZUN's works are growing more and more fanmade-ish as time progresses?
I know exactly what you mean and I completely agree. I don't know how to describe it though. Like, these patterns would not fit at all in Imperishable Night, but they would fit very well in Concealed the Conclusion or War of Fox and Badger.
So what you're saying that the danmaku isnt pretty anymore?

I'll try to make some sense of this. Well, for me, personally i find the danmaku in EoSD lacking. Not (necessarily) gameplay-wise, but rather the aesthetics are a pet peeve. Specifically, compare the sprite sheets from EoSD, with later games, just simply PCB who adds triangles and butterflies, or IN who adds stars (2 sizes) and amulets. We have even more than than, like arrows (the ones you use along a bow), music sheet symbols, glowing spheres, alpha channel (that one thanks to advances in software, but whatever). I see this problem with quite a share of fangames, though a lot of this is after being exposed to the high variety of bullets we have today (made by ZUN, or danmakufu ph3 making  easier than ever to add new bullets and other visual effects, at least compared to 0.12m). LoLK seems to use an overabundance of red and blue bullets (mostly on stage portions, but bosses also suffer from this), and simple spheres and diamonds. However, maybe this is the most appropriate thing, with people being from the moon on a full-on invasion, wanting raw power instead of more intricate designs.

Also, is this game meant to represent what happens when people are exposed to the true moon? I mean every aspect, like the color of the HUD, the backgrounds, the spell card backgrounds, the music (wanting a more "techno"-like ambient rather than using "traditional" instruments), the particularly high density/speed of enemy attacks...

Also, when i first saw Ringo, my dirty mind played a trick on me and i saw her having a bulge in her pants. Damn, i don't even watch that specific kind of artwork.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 03:34:44 pm by Maple »

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #504 on: May 11, 2015, 03:34:46 pm »
I don't know what this means.

The only possible thing I could come up with that would make sense is that the game feels more amateurish compared to older titles, or don't feel as 'authentic' as the older titles. The bullet patterns aren't as clever / memorable as they were back in the day or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.

I don't know.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #505 on: May 11, 2015, 03:41:57 pm »
The only possible thing I could come up with that would make sense is that the game feels more amateurish compared to older titles, or don't feel as 'authentic' as the older titles. The bullet patterns aren't as clever / memorable as they were back in the day or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.

But the patterns are now PATTERNS instead of good looking, aesthetically pleasing spam. Also the story this time around is actually pefectly tied to Gensokyo lore from non-game canon material as well as 14.5. I don't really get what you mean. It must really be
nostalgia affecting you. If anything, earlier games feel more amateurish compared to this, with stages that have no flow or consistency and boss fights which are good but kinda random patterns put one after the other,rather than having a theme.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #506 on: May 11, 2015, 03:51:05 pm »
But the patterns are now PATTERNS instead of good looking, aesthetically pleasing spam. Also the story this time around is actually pefectly tied to Gensokyo lore from non-game canon material as well as 14.5. I don't really get what you mean. It must really be
nostalgia affecting you. If anything, earlier games feel more amateurish compared to this, with stages that have no flow or consistency and boss fights which are good but kinda random patterns put one after the other,rather than having a theme.

Hey, I'm just trying to figure out what was meant by that comment. Please don't assume I also feel that way.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #507 on: May 11, 2015, 03:54:26 pm »
or the stories don't feel like they matter at all and are just all made up on the spot with various references to history and folklore thrown in.
This is a far more accurate description of Touhou 6 to 9 than anyting after. Touhou 10 is when the stories between games actually started to get connected to any degree higher than "some characters from previous games appear in this one too". 14 doesn't have a relation to 13.5, but it does have a direct one to 14.3, and 14.5 is connected to 15.

And most if not all characters in general actually have a connection to the story, lately. Everyone from DDC was involved in the plot, from the weak youkai attacking humans because of the mallet's influence, to the tsukumogami who were given life by it, to the two that actually started the thing. LoLK so far has two rabbits that are part of the invasion force, and a baku that control the area that the protagonist needs to use. Compare that to the likes of Rumia, Wriggle, Mystia, Cirno (in EoSD), Letty, Kisume, Yamame, etc etc etc, who are literally only there so you have something to fight at the end (or middle) of the stage.
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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #508 on: May 11, 2015, 03:55:26 pm »
Outside of her left hand, the portrait seems fine to me... what looks weird on her besides that?

Her right foot. Which wouldn't be so bad, since I understand it's ZUNart and all, but it's literally thrown into one's sight due to her pose.

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #509 on: May 11, 2015, 03:57:48 pm »
Her right foot. Which wouldn't be so bad, since I understand it's ZUNart and all, but it's literally thrown into one's sight due to her pose.
I was going to say "well it doesn't look that bad for zunart" but...
...now the more I look at it the weirder it gets...

Eh, still better than Sakuya's EoSD face :V
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 04:00:24 pm by Sagus »
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