Author Topic: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.  (Read 239349 times)

Darkness1

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #390 on: May 10, 2015, 02:41:22 PM »
I like the part where Seiran blew me up on the second nonspell for trying to POC
and Ringo stole my hitbox graphic once wat
I have no idea what triggers it though since it only happened once and then never again.

If ZUN gave Sweet Ringo's nonspells she would probably top for hardest stage 3 boss ever in my opinion.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #391 on: May 10, 2015, 02:51:33 PM »
Quote
It was kinda mentioned already, but apparently Reisen is a honorary human now. Which I totally approve. Eat that, "there's no humans-only pattern among main game PCs" crowd!

Since when and where did it say that Reisen became a human all of a sudden? She is a pretty strange looking human with those bunny ears on her head and not to mention that she did come from the moon, making her still an alien.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #392 on: May 10, 2015, 02:52:07 PM »
LORE TIME.

As ZUN tweeted before release, Touhou 14.5 and 15 are explicitly connected. From
Spoiler:
Sumireko Usami
's character text in Touhou 14.5:

Quote
Spoiler:
...however, there was one thing that remained incomprehensible in the end.
Out of all the power stones that she set up in order to open the door to the other world,
one single stone seemed to have been switched with another.
Whose doing was this?
In the first place, the urban legends manifesting and spreading through Gensokyo were not something that she had planned.
The urban legends had taken action such that a hole would be broken in the barrier, in the end, but was that really just a coincidence...?
Perhaps someone had been attempting to break the barrier from the inside.
Had her power stones been used for someone else's purposes?
She never did figure it out.

Which segues to this, in Marisa/Reisen's story in Touhou 15's manual:

Quote
---Marisa's house, in the Forest of Magic.
The seven Occult Balls that had suddenly appeared.
Marisa had been investigating just what one of the balls had been;
the ball of the Lunar Capital, to be precise.
Marisa: "Looks like this thing was somehow the cause of that whole urban legend uproar, but..."
As she sat bewildered, the moon rabbit Reisen appeared there.

As we know, Touhou 15 is about a Lunarian invasion. Reimu/Sanae's backstory says this incident was started by a mechanical spider walking around in Gensokyo, and Touhou 14.5 expands on this by indicating how
Spoiler:
Kasen ripped a hole in the barrier between worlds, letting Sumireko pass through - and unfortunately the Lunarians as well
.

People might be wondering, "what's that Point Device mode got to do with all this then"? It's not actually a "Point Device", the word is pointdevice. It's the Ultramarine Orb medicine made by Eirin, as Eirin and Kaguya have indicated they were prepared for the invasion. From the game manual (but Marisa/Reisen's story also has dialogue related to this):

Quote
The lunar emissaries will not forgive even one error.
Why? Because life and death are the height of impurity.
Using the future-viewing medicine Eirin made, the "Ultramarine Orb Medicine,"
each chapter in a stage will repeat until you manage a no-death clear.
This is the main game mode this time around.

The medicine, in effect in the Pointdevice mode, allows the character to "read the future" and rewind to the point before death. Why is this necessary in Touhou 15?

As we know from the manga, the invading Lunarians don't respect spell card rules. This is the only Touhou game where your character is actually in danger of getting killed.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 02:55:46 PM by not ZUNs wife »
check http://vsoft.life/ for runs & creations
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Formless God

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #393 on: May 10, 2015, 02:52:16 PM »
Circle around Seiran when you POC the first spell

and maybe it's just me but Doremy's nonspells are harder already

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #394 on: May 10, 2015, 02:56:48 PM »
I know I haven't played in awhile, but it feels like every difficulty is a step above what it used to be in other games, normal feels like hard, easy feels like normal... The game is going to be brutal for new players/easy mode players.

I really hope the game has spellcard practice and lastwords and unlockables at release, why implement a flawless mode otherwise... the menu has no room for such things though :(

Kaizaki

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #395 on: May 10, 2015, 03:05:31 PM »
Translations were put up on LoLK's Wiki page: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Legacy_of_Lunatic_Kingdom/Translation (I can't attest the accuracy.)

Judging from what's written:
Spoiler:
- Moon rabbits invaded Gensokyo and are trying to purify the Earth.
- Eientei seem to have known this would happen and are prepared.
- Marisa had been investigating the (Occult) Ball of the Lunar Capital, when all seven disappeared. The titular Kanjuden, perhaps?

Spoiler:
Edit: Oh yeah, we're taking a trip to the Moon too.

Oh no, I'm spreading misinformation. :(
Spoiler:
The Occult Balls did not disappear, and Kanjuden refers to Eirin's medicine.

@The person who is not ZUN's wife: Thanks for that! I learnt a new word today.

Darkness1

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  • Enigmatic, isn't it?
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #396 on: May 10, 2015, 03:12:32 PM »
and maybe it's just me but Doremy's nonspells are harder already
May very well be so, they're certainly trickier. I just found Ringo's nonspells really scary on hard mode for some reason. I haven't done many runs yet though.

BB

  • Typewriter Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #397 on: May 10, 2015, 03:56:48 PM »
Jeez, where DDC encouraged free use of bombs, pointdevice mode almost disallows them completely. I feel like that aspect needs a little work... it's preferable to take a hit rather than deathbomb in a lot of instances, so you have the bomb to use later.
Touhou fan since 2008.

Faves quicklist:
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Tengukami

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #398 on: May 10, 2015, 04:17:02 PM »
Yeah, joining the chorus of "this game has a significant difficulty ramp". Stage 3 reaches UFO levels of Can't See Shit, Captain.

And the story? Holy shit yes. I mean we know how it will probably end but wow.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Wolfolotl

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #399 on: May 10, 2015, 04:21:22 PM »
the demo wouldn't happen to be anywhere else but the CDs at the present time, would it?
:3c

Serela

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #400 on: May 10, 2015, 04:30:10 PM »
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

Legacy mode, however, will be utterly terrifying.
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Formless God

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #401 on: May 10, 2015, 04:35:48 PM »
limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death.
And the fact that there are no bombs to save you.

Pointdevice is basically "Spell Practice everything back-to-back: the mode". That is terrifying because it's physically exhausting to retry so many times.

BB

  • Typewriter Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #402 on: May 10, 2015, 04:45:43 PM »
Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?
Touhou fan since 2008.

Faves quicklist:
Yukari - Byakuren - Lily White - PCB - UFO - Necrofantasia - Cosmic Mind - Shining Needle - not into the fighters - not into score play - enjoy storytelling and theorycraft

Tengukami

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #403 on: May 10, 2015, 04:56:15 PM »
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

Legacy mode, however, will be utterly terrifying.

Bouncing back and forth between the two modes with different PCs here.

I get that your score leads to extends. But are the bomb fragments supposed to be visible? Because I don't think I see them.

What I do see a lot of is "Chapter Finish" appearing, in different parts of the screen and in different font sizes. It's actually pretty hilarious, and doesn't really get in the way, but I anticipate this is one of the bugs that will be worked out on the journey from 0.01a to 1.0.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #404 on: May 10, 2015, 04:59:21 PM »
so is reimu's bomb supposed to form a big ball that occasionally explodes in your screen like a flashbang from COD and makes it impossible to see for a few seconds. It also seems to lock on to certain enemies at times?
Touhou games 1cced(sadly on easy mode) MOF,DDC,IN,TD,POFV,UFO,EOSD,SA

RegalStar

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #405 on: May 10, 2015, 05:01:47 PM »
Every time you get a Chapter Finish, you get a bomb fragment if the score you get from it is above 1m. The score equals your graze number of the chapter, multiplied by the precentage of enemies shot down, multiplied by 5000. So if you shot down every enemy during a session, 200 graze is enough to get you a bomb fragment.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #406 on: May 10, 2015, 05:04:57 PM »
The game has a huge difficulty ramp because the game actually intends to give you infinite retries -during- a 1cc attempt, limited only by an extremely tiny power loss per death. This is... interesting balance :V

You could think of it as a story-based ISC with only one item. That's sort of how it feels like to play it, anyway. You're given the Ultramarine medicine to jump back in time on death... and at that previous point in time, you hadn't yet used the item, so you can use it again, making it OMGWTFHAX levels of broken from everyone's point of view. Basically, this time you're the one using an impossible spell card.
But it's justified plot-wise against something as threatening as Lunarians, which have been told in manga to be way beyond our protagonists' skill level otherwise.

It's really fresh and memorable, and I appreciate it more the more I keep playing. I wasn't expecting ZUN to make something this conceptual for a main game, but it is the 20th anniversary after all. It could as well have been a Phantasmagoria game.

Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?

Ah, good point. Maybe the good ending is the only ending, with no fail condition other than giving up in frustration..? I mean, having limited lives in Pointdevice "after all" feels like it'd defeat the point.

(Also, think about what a bad ending would imply anyway. The protagonists being dead and Lunarians "purifying" all life in Gensokyo sounds too harsh for Touhou.)
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Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #407 on: May 10, 2015, 05:18:32 PM »
So I guess this means we're back to Pre-EoSD where people are actually trying to kill the main characters now eh?

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Failure McFailFace

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #408 on: May 10, 2015, 05:20:32 PM »
Since Pointdevice is the main mode this time, I wonder what the 1cc requirements will be? Surely a perfect No Deaths run is too cruel?

I guess a 1cc is if you NMB in Pointdevice mode. But in Legacy mode, I assume it's the same.

Or ZUN will take it easy on us and a clear is enough to unlock Extra.
1cc Easy: DDC (all) | 1cc Normal: UFO (SanA autobomb),  DDC (ReiA, SakA) , LoLK (Sanae PD)| EX clears: DDC (MarB Ultra) | Puzzle Games: StB: 10-X, DS: Hatate unlock, ISC: All clear

Berzul

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #409 on: May 10, 2015, 06:29:51 PM »
I just realised that the censor ship on the photo of the demo cd is real....

PK

  • Border of Whatever
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #410 on: May 10, 2015, 06:46:47 PM »
You could think of it as a story-based ISC with only one item. That's sort of how it feels like to play it, anyway. You're given the Ultramarine medicine to jump back in time on death... and at that previous point in time, you hadn't yet used the item, so you can use it again, making it OMGWTFHAX levels of broken from everyone's point of view. Basically, this time you're the one using an impossible spell card.
But it's justified plot-wise against something as threatening as Lunarians, which have been told in manga to be way beyond our protagonists' skill level otherwise.


Spoiler:
Plot-wise, you don't really turn back time. If you die, it is treated as a "vision of the future" that you'll change by doing different moves, like that guy in the "Next" movie. Basically, all the game is just a vision of the future until you beat it.
Also, not ALL the lunarians are impossibly strong enemies. The only ones specifically overpowered are the Watatsuki (or rather, Yorihime), and i doubt they would destroy Gensokyo, since they are friendly with the Eientei group (unless they want to take them back to the Moon so badly to do something so drastic).

Of course, this being ZUN, "purifying" might mean something much less dangerous than it appears.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 09:13:18 PM by PK »

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #411 on: May 10, 2015, 06:58:55 PM »
This is really important: If you get a checkpoint and pause the game and then just close the game. Or I guess even if it crashes for some reason. I you start the game again and select the same difficulty and character as before closing out of the game, it will ask you if you want to keep playing at your checkpoint. So you can actually play until like stage two, get stuck, close the game and try going further at a later time. This is awesome.

Edit: Further testing shows, the game can save a waypoint for each individual character, maybe even difficulty? And you can even quit back to title to save your progress for each individual player.

Edit2: Yes, every difficulty can also have his own save. So you can have a Reimu on hard in stage 3 and a Reimu on easy on stage 1 and a Marisa on normal in stage 2 all saved at the same time.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 07:08:35 PM by 7TC7 »
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Jaimers

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #412 on: May 10, 2015, 07:08:25 PM »
Lunatic Legacy 1cc.

Game is pretty hard, I can only imagine what the full game will be like.

Also Reisen's shottype is literally from Darius Gaiden. And her bomb is literally the Darius Gaiden shield powerup.
Darius Gaiden is ZUN's favorite shmup after all I guess.

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #413 on: May 10, 2015, 07:14:37 PM »
You... You never cease to amaze...

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #414 on: May 10, 2015, 07:17:39 PM »
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
My name is Tres. It sounds like "Tray". Tressert is "Tray-zurt"; like Tres dessert.
I've cleared every touhou game on Lunatic, and beaten every extra except SoEW.
NMNB: MoF Hard, SA Extra, UFO Extra

Hope ♦ Metal

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #415 on: May 10, 2015, 07:28:28 PM »
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
Here:

It's probably stated elsewhere already, and might be obvious, but it looks like that the life system is back to points-based (Good ol' SoEW/EoSD/MoF). So far, I've got 30mil and 70mil as the first 2 extends. I can't play through Hard or Lunatic enough to find the next few XD (damn, these gals get brutal)

microfolk

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #416 on: May 10, 2015, 07:35:38 PM »
If you watch the end of Jaimer's replay (impressive work as always!) there is another breakpoint between 140m and 150m.
I hope it will be impossible to get all the extends without playing really well or trying at least a little bit to play for score~

BB

  • Typewriter Youkai
Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #417 on: May 10, 2015, 07:36:27 PM »
I wonder if it'd be asking too much for replays in the final version to save all your deaths and play those out too, Super Meat Boy style...
Touhou fan since 2008.

Faves quicklist:
Yukari - Byakuren - Lily White - PCB - UFO - Necrofantasia - Cosmic Mind - Shining Needle - not into the fighters - not into score play - enjoy storytelling and theorycraft

Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #418 on: May 10, 2015, 07:42:07 PM »
I wonder if it'd be asking too much for replays in the final version to save all your deaths and play those out too, Super Meat Boy style...
Depends, aren't the random bullets different every time ? If so, it just would look like a whole bunch of deaths to nothing if it doesn't show the bullets of every single attempt, and if it did, that would just be way too many. Streamable bullets would have the same problem, too.

WodofGar

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Re: 東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ~ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
« Reply #419 on: May 10, 2015, 07:43:48 PM »
Just realized something, and now I'm wondering. In Legacy mode, how do you get lives?
ZUN:
"Lives? HA!"

I have a feeling that Legacy mode is now Super Lunatic. The game does feel like a callback to the older Touhous with the points-to-lives system though, which I'm totally fine with.