Author Topic: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer  (Read 71823 times)

Ciel

  • Green-Eyed Jealousy
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2015, 06:47:31 PM »
I couldn't say I got the whole picture of the entire scenario since I wasn't following it, but I did see trailers of the fangame a bit, and... I admit it did look a bit fishy by how they explained it and their milestones. If my memory serves me right, the characters were called 'maidens', and one of the milestones includes adding new characters and hiring voice actors.

I'm not too familiar with game development (Scratch that, I know nothing), but the way it's handled, from the character models and the quality of work before releasing it did make me think it was a scam... (Which does not seem to be the case, shame on me, but this is... something just as bad in another level. >< ) Still, it's really depressing to see the creator act like this, to the point where it attracted even Zun himself.

I do feel a bit bad for the people who donated to the campaign for the fangame though... I remember that the money amount was more than double of the milestone for those who were looking forward to it, except it came down tumbling down like this...

Just some weirdo, move along!

Suspicious person

  • Just a humble wanderer
  • How suspicious~
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2015, 07:23:43 PM »
The whole IGG mess is over, I fail at seeing the rationale behind their new video. Did something noteworthy happened and lead them to make it while they were probated ? Why even go back ?

Saijee needs to understand that FSS's case is not the biggest deal ever. The moment they joined the Touhou doujin scene, they pretty much stood on the same level as, y'know, thousand of other Touhou circles, including those who also got into some trouble... with the difference being the fact that they thought it was a fantastic idea to make a big fuss out of their problems and blame their mistakes on the guidelines instead of, like, actually solving the problem or something. Seriously, it shouldn't've turned this big of a mess...

By this point, Saijee is NOT considered to be in the Touhou community anymore : if he wants to start a flame war, then he is the one who'll get burned. Does he still thinks he boasts of a solid support or something ?! He needs to face the fact that he doesn't have the same support he had back around the time he started developing TSSB, and that most of the support he had was mainly because of Touhou... if he's gonna leave the Touhou doujin scene, then he better stay away : just leave Touhou alone. Regardless of what FSS did, they did it as "outsiders" to Touhou : just consider them as trolls like any other, the arguments they keep giving have pretty much been countered anyway...

I guess the guy took the criticism and all the negativity too personally... he might've felt cheated and thinks what he is doing right now is some sort of holy crusade or something, while in fact he is just making himself look bad... He is NOT in the spotlight anymore... he needs to get it over with... Seriously, FSS is only one case amongst many others...
Quote
Advice for Future Touhou Devs
Wat. How conceited. Does he seriously expect that anyone'll do the same mistakes he did ? There are other non Japanese circles that do just fine. This better be an isolated case. I don't consider everything that happened  up until now as a waste of time since it was very educative and interesting, but it needs to end, it's starting to become ridiculous.

*Conspiracy theory*
That or Saijee has multiples personalities and Shinesbright turned out to be one of his alter ego This would have been a fun puzzle to solve, only if he/they was/were not banned lol
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 04:55:45 PM by Suspicious person »

helvetica

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  • United Federation
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2015, 07:31:58 PM »
That or Saijee has multiples personalities and Shinesbright turned out to be one of his alter ego This would have been a fun puzzle to solve, only if he/they was/were not banned lol
Helepolis fuming and getting completely befuddled trying to figure out whether ShinesBright was Saijee or not, while I imagine very very frustrating, was pretty humorous to watch :b.

Alas, he decided to an hero himself and we'll never know~ (unless he tries to sockpuppet again...).


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Aba Matindesu!

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2015, 07:32:35 PM »
I didn't follow the thread at all, so I checked out the video.

It had a paranoid tone, obviously, which set off the alarm bells in my head, but what really lost him all credibility and put me (and undoubtedly countless others) in full cringe mode was the Ruw "dox". Like, no. Just no. It's technically public info, but the audible gasps and... and... no.

I guess I know what I'm reading tonight.


teets mi hao 2 2hu teets mi teets mi hao 2 2hu

Savory

  • I am a save frog
  • *wink*
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2015, 07:33:51 PM »
...Wat. How conceited. Does he seriously expect that anyone'll do the same mistakes he did ? There are other non Japanese circles that do just fine. This better be an isolated case. I don't consider everything that happened  up until now as a waste of time since it was very educative and interesting, but it needs to end, it's starting to become ridiculous.

Yeah, that projection is part of his charming personality, don'cha know? He tends to apply his opinions in a way that makes it seem like everyone shares it. Ergo, because he somehow couldn't comprehend "don't attempt to commercialize a fanmade project", he believes no one else will and feels obligated to give "advice". So yes, he expects people will commit the same mistakes he did.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 07:39:35 PM by Savory »

Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2015, 07:39:13 PM »
As a personal aside, it has continually and utterly baffled me whenever someone complains about how MotK isn't consistent with its opinions/advice.

*NEWS FLASH* MotK is not a hive mind.

Everyone here has their own opinions, and sometimes differences exist.
MotK isn't policed to the point where only one narrative exists.

I have to applaud Helepolis and his monstrous patience in dealing with Saijee and his cohorts/sockpuppets, he really did try to do all he could to resolve the situation peacefully without it coming to this.
Seriously though, we've got to appreciate the incredible dedication, persistence, and patience shown by Helepolis, and others who have helped bridge the Japanese-English gap by providing translations and summations to both sides.
(Off the top of my head: Drake, cuc, monhan, N-Forza, MangasiNP, Flandre Scarlet, persceaux of tohosubs)
We've all got our own bullshit in life to deal with, so props to them for taking time out of their day.

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2015, 07:46:10 PM »
As a personal aside, it has continually and utterly baffled me whenever someone complains about how MotK isn't consistent with its opinions/advice.

*NEWS FLASH* MotK is not a hive mind.

Everyone here has their own opinions, and sometimes differences exist.
MotK isn't policed to the point where only one narrative exists.

Yeah, but the thread was attempting to present unified advice. This was an exception. There were comments that basically claimed MotK was a huge fandom influence and a big deal and so on, so I think a unified attempt was warranted.

Yeah, that projection is part of his charming personality, don'cha know? He tends to apply his opinions in a way that makes it seem like everyone shares it. So because he somehow couldn't comprehend "don't attempt to commercialize a fanmade project", he believes no one else will and feels obligated to give "advice". So yes, he expects people will commit the same mistakes he did.

Somebody will. Inevitably someone won't do their research. But this is kind of irrelevant on my part I guess.

This is something that's bugged me this entire time. In the context of these forums, I've seen more people tell users to lay off the insults than, well, actual insults. What was there other than this (and a couple of the posts right after it) that I missed?

It was the amount of "minor" insulting that got me. Calling him an idiot, copious use of swearwords by actual authorities here, and the general "you're going to fail and this project is bullshit" downer statements shoved onto him. Not like "go die in a fire you fucking scum of the earth, I will find you and kill you" stuff that happens elsewhere on the internet. But whatever.

The whole IGG mess is over, I fail at seeing the rationale behind their new video. Did something noteworthy happened and lead them to make it while they were probated ? Why even go back ?

Saijee needs to understand that FSS's case is not the biggest deal ever. The moment they joined the Touhou doujin scene, they pretty much stood on the same level as, y'know, thousand of other Touhou circles, including those who also got into some trouble... with the difference being the fact that they thought it was a fantastic idea to make a big fuss out of their problems and blame their mistakes on the guidelines instead of, like, actually solving the problem or something. Seriously, it shouldn't've turned this big of a mess...

By this point, Saijee is NOT considered to be in the Touhou community anymore : if he wants to start a flame war, then he is the one who'll get burned. Does he still thinks he boasts of a solid support or something ?! He needs to face the fact that he doesn't have the same support he had back around the time he started developing TSSB, and that most of the support he had was mainly because of Touhou... if he's gonna leave the Touhou doujin scene, then he better stay away : just leave Touhou alone. Regardless of what FSS did, they did it as "outsiders" to Touhou : just consider them as trolls like any other, the arguments they keep giving have pretty much been countered anyway...

I guess the guy took the criticism and all the negativity too personally... he might've felt cheated and thinks what he is doing right now is some sort of holy crusade or something, while in fact he is just making himself look bad... He is NOT the spotlight anymore... he needs to get it over with... Seriously, FSS is only one case amongst many others...Wat. How conceited. Does he seriously expect that anyone'll do the same mistakes he did ? There are other non Japanese circles that do just fine. This better be an isolated case. I don't consider everything that happened  up until now as a waste of time since it was very educative and interesting, but it needs to end, it's starting to become ridiculous.
That or Saijee has multiples personalities and Shinesbright turned out to be one of his alter ego This would have been a fun puzzle to solve, only if he/they was/were not banned lol

Well, this is the point. He's *not* part of the community...so he can basically do what he wants. If he has been exiled already, nothing to stop him from burning bridges. Unless people stoop to his level and doxx him, he can just duck out of his old name and circle identity, re-emerge elsewhere, and given the level of research and conspiracy he can do, he probably won't be outed. I imagine he can cover his tracks. So yeah, this doesn't hurt him at all if he doesn't give a fuck what we think. And we've washed our hands of him, so...he's washing his hands of any way we matter to him.

Why do the nasty vengeance video? Because yeah, he's fucking bitter and pissed. He feels like he's gotten cheated out of something, regardless of whether he's right or not. He had a plan, it was succeeding, people stopped him one way or the other, and now he's striving for any way to feel like he got a victory out of *something* here. If he can strike a blow back, he'll have saved face in his own mind and feel like he leveled the playing field somewhat. He exposed Ruw and dug for a vaguely strung-together conspiracy theory backed up by shallow but present evidence (remember, the best lie is the truth), removing the cognitive dissonance in his head and "confirming" that everyone really was just trying to fuck him over. So now, he can feel like he was okay, he was doing a reasonable thing, and everyone just shat on him, so he's going to take his ball and go home while he's "ahead." I don't think this is about arrogance or conceitedness; I think it's about self-perceived humiliation and his ability to do something that alleviates the pain of feeling totally trampled on. Regardless of whether his perspective is true or not, he wants a "positive" piece of closure for himself.

I admit I do like me some armchair psychoanalysis and have been playing too much Phoenix Wright, but that's my $0.02 on the situation.


The Ruw reveal would have been hilarious had this been in a movie and the information all been fake of course. "THOSE GLASSES! THESE GLASSES! THOSE ARM HAIRS! THESE ARM HAIRS!" XD It...I cracked up.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 07:52:16 PM by Alcoraiden »

Savory

  • I am a save frog
  • *wink*
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2015, 07:56:31 PM »
It was the amount of "minor" insulting that got me. Calling him an idiot, copious use of swearwords by actual authorities here, and the general "you're going to fail and this project is bullshit" downer statements shoved onto him.

That's to be expected when you begin to lose patience with someone like him.

helvetica

  • Arcade Maid
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  • United Federation
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2015, 08:02:14 PM »
Yeah, that projection is part of his charming personality, don'cha know? He tends to apply his opinions in a way that makes it seem like everyone shares it. Ergo, because he somehow couldn't comprehend "don't attempt to commercialize a fanmade project", he believes no one else will and feels obligated to give "advice". So yes, he expects people will commit the same mistakes he did.
The thing is, this sentiment is not foreign to western fan circles. Western fanwriters and fanartists understand the unspoken rule that the line between cute homage and potential legal threat that needs to be quashed lies on the commercialization. Only the most zealous of rights holders have gone after groups for merely referencing their IP, and there's been more than a few examples where fans have secured licenses to IPs for making fanworks usually with the stipulation that any money over x gets royalties or that they can't sell it for more than cost. Most are more than willing to work with fangroups, to the point of even donating their own tools or expertise to help out. He really is in the minority of minorities to think that just because ZUN didn't directly state he couldn't do it, he was free to do whatever he wanted with it. Everyone else who's a fancreator in any fandom understands fully the importance of creative control staying with the actual creator, along with the legal rights that go along with it.

The whole point of a fanwork is to make it for the love of the fandom, not to cash in on the members of that fandom. FSS immediately shifted his motives to the latter when he pushed for crowdfunding. Whether it was before or after he saw the money come in, only he could tell us, but regardless his actions afterwards made it clear it stopped being a fanwork after that. Nobody begrudges people who want to make a bit of profit, or at least cover the costs of their time and effort to make fanworks. As someone who now spends the vast majority of their con income in the artists alley, I find greater joy in supporting independent artists who make fanart and stuff of the things I love than buying commercialized crap. Most of my plushies are fan plushies, and I have tons of prints I've purchased (and need to frame and hang up :[).

Nobody was trying to tell him he couldn't monetize his project, just that he couldn't commercialize it. ZUN has legit concerns about digital distribution and whether he retains IP rights or not, and it doesn't help that the laws tend to be very vague on that. Plus doujins are meant to be a do everything yourself affair, including the point of sale, and it feels... scummy... to resort to crowdfunding to support an idea before a product is even made. We shouldn't do that to our own, and that's what hurt the most.

It was the amount of "minor" insulting that got me. Calling him an idiot, copious use of swearwords by actual authorities here, and the general "you're going to fail and this project is bullshit" downer statements shoved onto him. Not like "go die in a fire you fucking scum of the earth, I will find you and kill you" stuff that happens elsewhere on the internet. But whatever.
People are free to give criticism, and I agree I find more of the debbie downer type comments not useful, but at the same time people should be free to voice their opinions on it. As far as the harsh language though, that didn't come out until it became obvious that he was being a knucklehead. Tensions were high for legitimate reasons, he was doing a lot of potential harm to not only himself, but the WTC in general with his actions, and when he stopped listening to reason, and ignored pleas and more polite methods, harsher things tend to come out.

That being said, I've looked over the posts and 1) several mods actively monitored the thread and stepped in when things were getting truly hairy, and 2) the only actual swearwords I've found were from Edible in a PM to him and to be frank at that point I would have said the same thing. As far as the staff response to the situation I'm not sure how it could have been any more calm and professional than it was. I'm a very polite person unless you've actively annoyed me to the point where I have to punish you directly. Don't expect kid gloves at that point.

Also staff members are just as much members of the community as everyone else, and unless they're specifically acting in an official fashion (aka actually moderating), what they say is their own opinions, and I'm not in the business of regulating what people can and can't say. Hell, I wouldn't be admin if I suddenly had to watch every little thing I said lest it get construed as an official MotK stance (doesn't stop people from doing that, but I digress...). This is a volunteer op. None of us get paid to do this. We run the community as members of the community for the community, and while we tend to put on hats such as moderator or ambassador, we also are still members of this community.


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2015, 08:08:56 PM »
the only actual swearwords I've found were from Edible in a PM to him and to be frank at that point I would have said the same thing

Hey.  Hey.

Hey hey hey.

Hey, hey.  Hey.  Hey.  Hey.

Hey.

Hey.

... Hey.

I also told him to shut the fuck up in that other thread. :colbert:

helvetica

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2015, 08:11:00 PM »
Oh I'm so sorry I missed that one, my apologies your grace :3


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #101 on: February 05, 2015, 08:12:18 PM »
Jeez.

Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #102 on: February 05, 2015, 08:37:09 PM »
It was the amount of "minor" insulting that got me. Calling him an idiot,

Indeed. I'd even say it was a lot more than just a minor insult to idiots everywhere to call this guy an idiot.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #103 on: February 05, 2015, 11:34:06 PM »
People are free to give criticism, and I agree I find more of the debbie downer type comments not useful, but at the same time people should be free to voice their opinions on it. As far as the harsh language though, that didn't come out until it became obvious that he was being a knucklehead. Tensions were high for legitimate reasons, he was doing a lot of potential harm to not only himself, but the WTC in general with his actions, and when he stopped listening to reason, and ignored pleas and more polite methods, harsher things tend to come out.

Gotta agree with this. And even after some obv-troll behavior from Saijee rose to the surface, people like Drake, monhan, tohosubs, Helepolis et al. were still offering legit advice and guidance. To be honest I think these guys deserve thanks for giving the benefit of the doubt long after it was deserved. Saijee's hurt feelings, I'm less concerned about - in the balance, I think his shenanigans far outweigh whatever snippiness some people understandably displayed.

And if you want to see "minor insults" and people not being very nice, swing by the art board some time. Whole lotta toughlove goin' on there!

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Mеа

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #104 on: February 05, 2015, 11:40:13 PM »
And if you want to see "minor insults" and people not being very nice, swing by the art board some time. Whole lotta toughlove goin' on there!
? AAA??
Naked expression; purple raspberry flavour

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #105 on: February 05, 2015, 11:41:26 PM »
Maybe things have changed, but yeah - AAA denizens traditionally did not hold back when it came to feedback.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

helvetica

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #106 on: February 05, 2015, 11:50:08 PM »
Maybe things have changed, but yeah - AAA denizens traditionally did not hold back when it came to feedback.
Helepolis goes way out of his way to make sure Rika's is a no drama zone. To the point I swear he works himself into a stroke trying to reason with people.


Twitter: @hipsterfont | Discord: helvetica#0573 | LINE: hipsterfont

He thought that on that same day he was to take the city of Priam, but he little knew what was in the mind of Jove, who had many another hard-fought fight in store alike for Danaans and Trojans."


Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2015, 11:52:15 PM »
So when do we start a IGG campaign for Hele? :colbert:

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2015, 11:54:48 PM »
Maybe things have changed, but yeah - AAA denizens traditionally did not hold back when it came to feedback.
i thought you were talking about poolswimmer :derp:

if that place even still exists

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2015, 12:00:08 AM »
Oh man, I haven't looked at Poosh in ages.

Looking at it now, it's in a way reassuring how little it's changed.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Colticide

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2015, 12:05:45 AM »
I'm not sure why I do this to myself but when I rewatch the video I feel like a fool because back when IGG was first brought up I honestly didn't give it any mind nor even knew what IGG was. In fact I never knew crowfunding was against doujin till it was brought up, I just had a personal hatred for kickstarter for certain reasons. (Damn you doublefine!)

Wait a second, I remember talking about wanting to help with the game and they asked me about banners and I wanted to help, but I never knew what the banners where for. I never got a reply to my question on how they wanted them to look like, now I realize it was for their IGG campaign. Oh god why didn't I knew?
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2015, 12:06:47 AM »
So, I hate to be "Ideas Guy", but why not MoTK just make our own "Touhou Smash"? With Blackjack, and Hookers!

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGzamClGfkI

A mod of Brawl, to be specific. Could be really great, especially if physics are altered.

And unlike that which shall not be named, a mod cannot be corrupted by commercialization.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 12:10:53 AM by Lishy1 »

Mеа

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2015, 12:12:27 AM »
Maybe things have changed, but yeah - AAA denizens traditionally did not hold back when it came to feedback.
Out of curiosity I went and started at the back of AAA and made my way back to the front.
Everyone seemed to follow the: '____ seems off...' and '...but I liked ____' critique formula. Which is rather well-natured, compared to other places where you get ripped apart by sharp eyes and good intentions.
My gosh there were a crapton more music threads than there are now. On the other hand, people seemed to keep making new threads instead of collecting them in their own.
Running into old stuff feels weird. Like poprocks.
Naked expression; purple raspberry flavour

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
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  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2015, 12:20:23 AM »
Out of curiosity I went and started at the back of AAA and made my way back to the front.
Everyone seemed to follow the: '____ seems off...' and '...but I liked ____' critique formula. Which is rather well-natured, compared to other places where you get ripped apart by sharp eyes and good intentions.

Yeah you're probably right. I couldn't draw a straight line if you put a gun to my head so I admittedly only swung through AAA a handful of times. Invariably, due to reported posts, so, *~confirmation bias~* on my part there.

Also, pop rocks? I haven't heard those mentioned since people were all talking about how eating pop rocks and drinking Coke would make your intestines explode (NB: not actually true, but wow did that rumor have wheels).

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Zil

Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2015, 12:30:48 AM »
the "drama queens" acted pretty shitty sometimes, but they seem to have left

Drake

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2015, 12:41:59 AM »
To go back to what TSO said above:
The thing is, this sentiment is not foreign to western fan circles. Western fanwriters and fanartists understand the unspoken rule that the line between cute homage and potential legal threat that needs to be quashed lies on the commercialization. Only the most zealous of rights holders have gone after groups for merely referencing their IP, and there's been more than a few examples where fans have secured licenses to IPs for making fanworks usually with the stipulation that any money over x gets royalties or that they can't sell it for more than cost. Most are more than willing to work with fangroups, to the point of even donating their own tools or expertise to help out. He really is in the minority of minorities to think that just because ZUN didn't directly state he couldn't do it, he was free to do whatever he wanted with it. Everyone else who's a fancreator in any fandom understands fully the importance of creative control staying with the actual creator, along with the legal rights that go along with it.
I've spoken to at least three japanese folks about this. Ruw understood right away that this was mostly FSS' problem in particular, but often I've seen the Japanese spectators giving the attempt to "understand" and saying that oh, doujin culture is something foreign to other countries so it's understandable that some people make dumb mistakes due to cultural differences and not knowing any better. While this overall is true, and the culture in Japan is definitely a difference, that isn't to say that the whole fundamental concept of doujin is something not present anywhere but Japan. It is certainly present in western game development along with fanbases that produce any sort of content. The doujin sentiment is present; we just don't have a name for it and don't often think of it as a solid construct. Our culture also tends to blur the line between doujin works, commercial works, and careers. This is why framing doujin works as "hobby" projects is fairly important. More to the point though, is that this is not an excuse for FSS' total lack of understanding, and isn't something that we should have to explain to people (and we almost never have to!). Having rules and guidelines is a different story, but saying "oh let's make a fanwork using so and so's IP and sell it to people! That's totally ok!" just has no such excuses whether that IP is legally protected and actively enforced or not.

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ZXNova

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2015, 12:45:41 AM »
Was anyone here a fan of FSS before they went to... what they have become now?

I wasn't there from the very beginning, but I was watching their videos on the development of Touhou Smash for a moderate amount of time I think. Iirc, I started following him around his 50th video. Him solidifying the mechanics of Touhou smash, the introduction of spellcards, the finishing of Sakuya, all the way up to now. I even left comments on his video and he quoted once because he was the kind of guy to answer everyone's questions at that time. I'm gonna be honest and have to say I really liked what he was doing and liked him too. I thought he was a cool guy. But then suddenly, all of this poop went down. I was really hoping that FSS was just making a simple mistake that can easily be rectified ya know. However events unfolded even deeper. When I heard FSS was approved by ZUN that was my last speck of hope that they will do the right thing. All I ever really wanted was for FSS to do the right thing you know. I wanted the best for them. And I'm sure many other people probably thought the same.

Ah well, all I can do is try to put this event behind us now right? I don't hate FSS, but I'm really disappointed. I still hope for them to do the right thing.

Do you think they will ever be cleansed of their sin in the eyes of the Touhou community?

Uruwi

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2015, 12:49:58 AM »
Was anyone here a fan of FSS before they went to... what they have become now?

I wasn't there from the very beginning, but I was watching their videos on the development of Touhou Smash for a moderate amount of time I think. Iirc, I started following him around his 50th video. Him solidifying the mechanics of Touhou smash, the introduction of spellcards, the finishing of Sakuya, all the way up to now. I even left comments on his video and he quoted once because he was the kind of guy to answer everyone's questions at that time. I'm gonna be honest and have to say I really liked what he was doing and liked him too. I thought he was a cool guy. But then suddenly, all of this poop went down. I was really hoping that FSS was just making a simple mistake that can easily be rectified ya know. However events unfolded even deeper. When I heard FSS was approved by ZUN that was my last speck of hope that they will do the right thing. All I ever really wanted was for FSS to do the right thing you know. I wanted the best for them. And I'm sure many other people probably thought the same.

Ah well, all I can do is try to put this event behind us now right? I don't hate FSS, but I'm really disappointed. I still hope for them to do the right thing.

Do you think they will ever be cleansed of their sin in the eyes of the Touhou community?

  • Not much of a fan personally, but not a hater either.
  • I don't know, but I can guess that it's unlikely and hope that it never happens.
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2015, 12:54:31 AM »
Do you think they will ever be cleansed of their sin in the eyes of the Touhou community?

From what I've been seeing, they're just digging themselves a deeper hole. If they want to cleanse themselves of this, they need to own up to it and not try to pawn it off. To me, the fact that they lashed out the way they did after everyone spent so much time trying to help them is making it really difficult to show them compassion. But there's still that tiny part of me that might give them that chance if they're serious about this.

Tengukami

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2015, 12:57:49 AM »
Do you think they will ever be cleansed of their sin in the eyes of the Touhou community?

Pretty much impossible to say. The Touhou community isn't a monolith. Of those who even know who FSS are, you have a spectrum ranging from supporters to detractors. What I do know is, once you've sufficiently and repeatedly demonstrated that you'll use the good-faith efforts of others to further your own gain through deception, your reputation is pretty much shot. Kind of like crying wolf one too many times. I honestly don't think FSS is even interested in making things right, but if they were, I'd say the chances are good they've used up all benefit of the doubt at this point anyway.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."