Topic: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer  (Read 17561 times)

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Keine Kamishirasawa

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2015, 10:21:31 pm »
I'm glad I stopped caring about this project long ago. FromSoySauce was being too much of a... err... sorry to put it blunt, but he was pretty much being a douche. He was being extremely ignorant and not willing to cooperate with anyone. I could see this almost from the beginning.

I must say, however, that I never expected him to go this far, but unfortunately he did. I feel sorry for his image right now, and for anyone who was involved in this quagmire.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 10:23:37 pm by ☆ New Age Retro Gamer Synnae ☆ »

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2015, 10:24:11 pm »
Some people just refuse to listen, and instead want the world to revolve around them. I have to applaud Helepolis and his monstrous patience in dealing with Saijee and his cohorts/sockpuppets, he really did try to do all he could to resolve the situation peacefully without it coming to this.
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2015, 10:25:31 pm »


Quote
We are also at this time forbidding any future kickstarter or crowdfunding threads.
Huh, well this is a bit awkward. Does this rule apply to just Touhou related works, or to all crowdfunding endeavors?
I've actually been working on starting a kickstarter for my own game and was going to share it in the coming months, but if that's not allowed anymore then that kind of sucks. :<
I mean it's not like I'm really screwed over by this decision, it's just I've always considered this place as I guess like my internet home, so I feel more comfortable sharing my crappy in progress stuff here for initial feedback than other places.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 10:27:29 pm »
All kickstarters, sorry :[. We've always been kind of leery of them in the first place but this made it very clear that the benefits clearly do not outweigh any of the messes that might happen. This is no bash against you or saying you're untrustworthy, but in general kickstarters have been a plague on indie gaming, and there's been lots of people promising huge things with nothing concrete and then walking off with all the money.

You can still talk about your project and ask for feedback/etc, but no panhandling for money is what we ask.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 10:31:23 pm by helvetica »
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2015, 10:41:20 pm »
I feel like an idiot for getting so involved that I appeared in the video shocked me and made me pretty angry. I really wanted to help the project but now I feel like my passion only backfired on me. I'm really sorry to anyone if my involvement hurt you, I really wanted to try to and do good.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 10:51:58 pm »
I feel like an idiot for getting so involved that I appeared in the video shocked me and made me pretty angry. I really wanted to help the project but now I feel like my passion only backfired on me. I'm really sorry to anyone if my involvement hurt you, I really wanted to try to and do good.

I trust you had good intentions, Colticide. You seemed to be pretty chill from what I could see when I was still discussing about stuff on that topic.

Now, I can't speak for how the others feel about you, but hopefully all of this won't impact negatively on your image.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 10:59:03 pm »
I feel like an idiot for getting so involved that I appeared in the video shocked me and made me pretty angry. I really wanted to help the project but now I feel like my passion only backfired on me. I'm really sorry to anyone if my involvement hurt you, I really wanted to try to and do good.
Everyone did from what I can tell. I've only been watching from the sidelines but the feeling I got from everyone involved is that everyone wanted to help him do the right thing. There was legit excitement for the project and he squandered it by going on a tirade about copyright and how ZUN can't tell him what to do with Touhou and other bizarre conspiracy theories (to the point of even trying to edit Wikipedia to fabricate information to support his claims). I cut the cord when he decided to start burning bridges by digging up personal info on people involved in some vain attempt to prove a conspiracy that his game was being crushed because Touhou was gonna go commercial or some nonsense.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 10:59:24 pm »
well this is all just sad; some people are just like that tough, all you can do with them by the end is let them obstinately steer their ship into the reefs while you get to the lifeboats  :(

it's whatever though, i'm sure the western fandom in general know they are a minority; and for the people from this forum that were involved, everyone here know you all are more trustworthy than him, especially in regards to his behaviour.  ;)


what i'm really curious about is, have there been any official comments from Team Shanghai Alice on this (other than forcing the closure of the Crowdfunding)?
how commonly does this happen that ZUN actually does Crackdown on a fan project like this for not following his guidelines? not often i guess cause it's one of the first tme i hear of something like this.

Because one thing that do worry me is that TSA, and the Japanese side of the fandom are probably not aware of all this internal conflict and intricacies within the project, and may get bad ideas about MOTC, or the western Fandom in general from this.



Something that might be worth doing is sending an apology letter to Zun on behalf of everybody involved...?
even if it was mostly FromSoySauce's fault, we all know that, doesn't matter. Just apologise on behalf of the whole western fandom: if only to show him this is not what the majority of us wanted.

i dunno, just throwing that out there.  :ohdear:

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 11:03:54 pm »
what i'm really curious about is, have there been any official comments from Team Shanghai Alice on this (other than forcing the closure of the Crowdfunding)?
how commonly does this happen that ZUN actually does Crackdown on a fan project like this for not following his guidelines? not often i guess cause it's one of the first tme i hear of something like this.
Not that I'm aware of, but if I recall correctly ZUN never had official fangame guidelines until very recently. The only other crackdown I can think of was the White Canvas incident where they were selling commercialized comics and other Touhou memorabilia without permission.

Quote
Because one thing that do worry me is that TSA, and the Japanese side of the fandom are probably not aware of all this internal conflict and intricacies within the project, and may get bad ideas about MOTC, or the western Fandom in general from this.

Something that might be worth doing is sending an apology letter to Zun on behalf of everybody involved...?
even if it was mostly FromSoySauce's fault, we all know that, doesn't matter. Just apologise on behalf of the whole western fandom: if only to show him this is not what the majority of us wanted.

i dunno, just throwing that out there.  :ohdear:
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Our contact with TSA has been notified of the current state of the mess and I doubt ZUN isn't going to take it personally. I'm more concerned about the blatant disregard for ZUN's wishes on the matter, but thankfully everyone seemed to be respectful of it even if FSS was refusing to play nice.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2015, 11:17:05 pm »
ah good to know.  :)

well, in the end this is just another crowdfunding debacle amongst so many others in indie game developement.
it's probably a wise move to prevent promotiing it alltogether on the forums, i  agree.
if the dev want to do crowdfunding fine, that's his right, but he have other ways to advertise it than on internet forums anyway.

my vision of it is that you should do crowdfunding only if you already have something very concrete and advanced in developement and legal stuff, and certain to give at least birth to something .

at that point, there should already be hype for your game anyway if people care about it, so ideally you shouldn't even have to advertise a crowdfunding campaign in the fisrt place.
only my 2 cents i guess.  :derp:

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2015, 11:20:22 pm »
Thank you for writing that post.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 11:24:02 pm »
I am personally sorry for all the members of MotK appearing in this video, abusing your posts and making it look like we are the bad guys. As RikaNitori section moderator on MotK, I cannot express anything but disapproval to Saijee & FromSoySauce. I can only offer my sincere apologies to those unwillingly involved in this. I know internet words mean probably nothing, but we all tried to help. Others more than me.

Again, sincere apologies.

--Helepolis




I am quite at discomfort to see him dragging in all kinds of members from MotK, who did nothing but contribute to the thread in a mature way. Saijee dragged them all out in the open for no reason. If Saijee had single piece of guts he would take this personally with me or the mods in PM before he was told to stop trashing people's thread. Probation does not restrict PMing, ShinesBright got additional punishment for obvious reasons and that was obsessive PM harassment. Probation also allows you to post in Shiki Eiki's section to communicate with mods for obvious reasons.

But nope, he had to send ShinesBright in acting as his foolish proxy to communicate with me. Saijee refused to step forward to use any of these methods, because he is a spineless kid throwing an immature tantrum dragging members. This isn't a child's game so you don't deal with such things in a childish way. Can't handle the heat? Send your brothers. He has so called two brothers, what the hell do they even think of his behaviour?

All my PMs are being disclosed there. Blurred or not, the actual content and way of wording can have great impact on understanding. After all, hard to express emotions in bunch of letters. So it could easily give false impression of my words.

Plus, I already knew ShinesBright would pass on the PMs to Saijee for his hate-fueling, hence I refused from communicating with her in the first place. Her purpose wasn't getting answers on her question, but to stir drama and harass/troll. I am not foolish to know what this obsessive delusional fool is going to do with the information.

Not to mention his doxxing towards Ruw-san is just really not done. Heavy disapproval, didn't expect him to get so obsessive about his own failure. He needs professional help if you ask me.

@ Colticide, you can always claim privacy violation by reporting the video on youtube.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:31:42 pm by Helepolis »
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 11:40:51 pm »
Dude randomly edited a sentence in a PM I sent him calling him a shitheel



lmao

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« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:46:45 pm by Edible »
Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 11:46:28 pm »
I wish I had thought of making a dancing robot to rant at people whenever I got my shit pushed in online.  Stroke of genius!
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 11:53:50 pm »
His behavior towards Ruw-san really just felt like contempt to me, the way he talked about his discovery really felt immature, actually make me a bit disgusted about it all.

@ Helepolis, I'd rather not, you and Paz where more talked about plus I feel if I did it would cause more issues then not.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2015, 12:18:17 am »
I've watched most of the video (The part where he talks about Ruw is just too cringe-y for me), but I think he raised one good point.

At about 7:50 or so, he talks about the fact that ZUN's guidelines were updated, yet the translations were not updated to match. Why hasn't this happened yet? It's been almost FOUR years now since said update.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2015, 12:39:28 am »
I never knew he ddox'd someone. Man, that's just heartbreaking. At this point, I'm just... in shock. My ATB bar has been reduced to zero.

Anyway, will someone ever decide to make their own Touhou Smash Battles the right way?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 12:46:54 am by ZXNova »

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2015, 12:42:00 am »
Dude randomly edited a sentence in a PM I sent him calling him a shitheel

(Image removed from quote.)

lmao

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2015, 12:56:09 am »
I've watched most of the video (The part where he talks about Ruw is just too cringe-y for me), but I think he raised one good point.

At about 7:50 or so, he talks about the fact that ZUN's guidelines were updated, yet the translations were not updated to match. Why hasn't this happened yet? It's been almost FOUR years now since said update.

Well its possible that no one has actually translated it for public form or that it doesn't really change much from the old one that there is no reason to update it. Frankly from the "translated" part it seems that we are still where we left off, things seems like they can continue like they were but is now only an issue because it interferes with someones plans.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2015, 01:53:24 am »
I knew things would turn sour with this guy. Even after all of this trouble had transpired, he learned nothing from the experience and still held his contempt against ZUN and his belief that he did nothing wrong.

This was bound to happen, and in no way am I surprised. It's sad because this was a great idea; it was just handled by the wrong person.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 02:09:14 am »
I wanted to keep quiet even as I watched the thread itself and things transpire, I wish things were handled better, but then again I applaud the mods and everyone else who handled the problem well, I hope things turn out better for the future and that a new Touhou Smash is made, but by a person with a better heart and considers things better for others and not for themselves. I wanted to say I was truly disgusted with FSS's way of handling and coping with THEIR loss on privilege to do Touhou games HOWEVER  it makes me hate people who try to monetize good franchises for their own gain.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 02:12:23 am by MewMewHeart »
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 02:26:08 am »
I've watched most of the video (The part where he talks about Ruw is just too cringe-y for me), but I think he raised one good point.

At about 7:50 or so, he talks about the fact that ZUN's guidelines were updated, yet the translations were not updated to match. Why hasn't this happened yet? It's been almost FOUR years now since said update.
This is incorrect, although the current text might be misleading when saying "the below" doesn't reflect the changes. Only the translation within that box was unaltered, since it was just copied verbatim from the original translation posted on gensokyo.org. The twitter clarification and 02/18 update (which were additions, not alterations) are in the two following sections, the latter clearly saying "summary of blog update".

Of course, if FSS knew what they were talking about at all they would be able to see this just by comparing the blog and the wiki.

We've had some consideration about a retranslation/tweaking, and I have my own rather minor qualms about how some things are worded, but for the most part the guidelines are accurate and I would rather not make hasty edits. An update of that caliber needs some structure and consensus. As hopefully people know by now, any ambiguity would be easily resolved by asking first instead of acting first.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 02:29:24 am by Drake »

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 03:04:31 am »
Welp.

As one of the more vocal supporters for FSS, I do apologize for perhaps not washing my hands of all this when things were clearly getting suspicious. *sigh.* I was trying so hard to be optimistic, especially since I have a personal bias toward seeing "movie-like" endings where detractors are proven wrong and the valiant underdogs give a big diplomatic yet obvious "WE DID IT" victory finger to everyone and take off into the sunset. I thought that could happen. I was so bogus.

I don't apologize for being a supporter when things were going reasonably and Saijee just seemed kind of...derpy and bumbling. When the first detractors were screaming "maliciousness" when it was most easily attributed to ignorance. But I am so, horribly sorry I didn't see this coming and kept trying to resist you guys so hard when it should've been kind of obvious. Hindsight 20/20 I guess. Consider this my throwing in my hat and asking not to be associated with these folks. I started out trying to defend newbie devs...and it looks like they were just wearing sheep's clothing the whole fucking time.

Now I wash my hands of this and then throw them up in the air. I got nothing. I couldn't save this if I had all the natural 20's ever. I had no *idea* that all this could go so *utterly wrong.* What even *is* this shit?

I'm disappointed in FSS. This came out of fucking nowhere -- the doxxing and all that bullshit. I don't even know.

I do hope that one day someone makes a fun Touhou smasher. It just sure as hell ain't these guys.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 03:07:35 am »
I'm seeing a few comments about how stupid and an isolationist ZUN is regarding his rules.
"You can't distribute fangames if people don't know what Touhou is?" "That's stupid, how do new people find out?" "Zun's financial policies are moronic."
Stuff like that. People looking at the rules as some kind of tyrannical creed or something, when it's mostly only verbalized doujin sentiments.
Although I'm sure people more knowledgeable than me can say this better, I'll try anyway.
Doujin activity is essentially based off of shared, mutual hobbies. The key word is 'shared.' You don't promote the goods to others who don't know anything about your interests because then that's just commercial business. That's not to say that doujin is an isolated, exclusive membership club. You can share your hobbies; people like to share their talents and find people with the same hobbies, or similar interests. Once you establish this connection of 'sharedness' then the 'goods' naturally follow. That's why the idea of 'for fun' and 'to share works with others of the same interest' is sacred, and simple profiteering is taboo.
I'd imagine I may have gotten some stuff wrong. But someone more involved can correct me.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 03:11:03 am by Mea »
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 03:12:51 am »
Welp.

As one of the more vocal supporters for FSS, I do apologize for perhaps not washing my hands of all this when things were clearly getting suspicious. *sigh.* I was trying so hard to be optimistic, especially since I have a personal bias toward seeing "movie-like" endings where detractors are proven wrong and the valiant underdogs give a big diplomatic yet obvious "WE DID IT" victory finger to everyone and take off into the sunset. I thought that could happen. I was so bogus.

I don't apologize for being a supporter when things were going reasonably and Saijee just seemed kind of...derpy and bumbling. When the first detractors were screaming "maliciousness" when it was most easily attributed to ignorance. But I am so, horribly sorry I didn't see this coming and kept trying to resist you guys so hard when it should've been kind of obvious. Hindsight 20/20 I guess. Consider this my throwing in my hat and asking not to be associated with these folks. I started out trying to defend newbie devs...and it looks like they were just wearing sheep's clothing the whole fucking time.

Now I wash my hands of this and then throw them up in the air. I got nothing. I couldn't save this if I had all the natural 20's ever. I had no *idea* that all this could go so *utterly wrong.* What even *is* this shit?

I'm disappointed in FSS. This came out of fucking nowhere -- the doxxing and all that bullshit. I don't even know.

I do hope that one day someone makes a fun Touhou smasher. It just sure as hell ain't these guys.

I just feel bad that you and I got into it when there was no need for us to to have been hostile, I am very sorry about my behavior during all of it towards you.

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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2015, 03:19:48 am »
I just feel bad that you and I got into it when there was no need for us to to have been hostile, I am very sorry about my behavior during all of it towards you.

No need for an apology.
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2015, 03:22:09 am »
I wasted my Rika luck on such a silly project.

Man I shoulda known things would turn out like this the moment I read his reactions towards people telling him it was a bad idea to try and kickstart.
How does someone manage to mess up this much when he really only had to fix one thing?
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2015, 03:43:31 am »
This whole project went from exciting to disappointing to now horrifying unreasonably fast. All we can hope now is that we learn from this, because I don't think anybody's left happy with this result.
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Re: On a certain fangame project by a certain developer
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2015, 04:00:18 am »
Wait. April 1st is only in two months or so. Is this for real?

Wow. I'm very disappointed things turned out this way. I think MotK (...mottka?) has been rather emotional about this project but also very, very patient and willing to offer an almost scary amount of assistance, from Helepolis/Drake/others' patient efforts to translate and interpret ZUN/Oyamada/Ruw's communications to N-Forza's willingness to help distribute the project. In return for this, well, I think we've all seen FSS's response.....

This is sad. In no way should any developer act this way. Pardon my french but anyone who gives two shits about their project should focus on giving people something to enjoy, no matter the cost. Not using it as a vehicle for their personal issues and as a means to bite the hand that feeds them (so to speak). TSSB went from an interesting and highly-anticipated idea to a growing quagmire of fuck-ups, to a complete circus. I'd say we should just forget about them and move on with our lives, and not bother to stoop to their level. But then there's the fact that unknowing youtube viewers will inevitably get sucked into their lying bullshit and start thinking ZUN/doujin culture is xenophobic and deserves "what's coming to them" by breaking ZUN's guidelines, overtly pirating the games, or otherwise. It's especially sad that one (well, three) people who claim to love Touhou would set the WTC back so far in so little time.

I would happily buy everyone on this forum a beer if I could. Wouldn't fix a damned thing but at least something positive should come out of everyone's efforts, no matter how insignificant it may be. Failing that, I offer my sincerest thanks to everyone who has put aside their valuable time to help out a worthless developer..... This may have turned more sour than any of us imagined but you've all done more than anyone should have and have shown just how deeply the WTC cares.....

What a shame. I thought this was done and over with.... =/
 

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