Draft Mafia - Game Over

[Raikaria]

Either my activity is going to be very low the next 2 days because I'm at a con or I might replace out.

Also damnit Dormio why'd you have to be town.

[Bardiche]

##Unvote
##Vote: DrRawr

That was a jest. But in more serious matters, I'm not liking DrRawr's content. I've decided I'd look around in the game, and there's a number of things I realised:

1) I don't have a reason to lynch Mitsuki at all. I understand their thought processes better and don't think it was a scum-minded angle. We'd probably reach an understanding of each other's playstyle more if we talked more, but shitting up the thread with our talk is probably just shitting up the thread, so we'll have to talk in private some time.

2) I don't feel like lynching Sky Paladin because it was a good early Day 1 case I stuck on too long, and that's no longer interesting now. Also he talks a lot, and I kind of want to focus on the people who've been using the Mitsuki/SkyPal/Bard fiasco to hide in the shadows.

DrRawr is one of those people. If you look at his posts in isolation, you'll see he deigned not to participate in RVS, and has not a single content post to his name except for one. That's pretty bad: it's lurking to the max. Rereading that content post, there's a particular line that sprang out to me:

i dont think bardiche is in the wrong with his case on sky paladin. i mean if skypaladin posts nonsense as both town and scum isnt it up to town to determine if its scum skypaladin or town skypaladin? we are talking about his content and we cant just hand wave it away.

This is cheerleading my case on Sky Paladin without taking a stance one way or the other. "Bardiche isn't wrong" doesn't equal "Bardiche is right", and DrRawr deigns not to make a judgement one way or the other. His Mitsuki "case" doesn't exist beyond highlighting one post and passing it off as "useless babble". I think this is the "scum rhetoric" Mitsuki was hunting for earlier. It's a gross exaggeration of what Mitsuki posts. There's no real reason given to vote Mitsuki and it looks like an arbitrary vote to make it look like he exists.

Result: Do Not Like.

I simlarly dislike Zakeri for vanishing during the latter half of the Day. Raikaria may have posted garbage, but I feel like he made at least an effort to be in the game. Also I remember he made a case on me and it wasn't utter shit, where he could've just as easily made a shit case and flung onto Mitsuki. I also feel as though a Scum!Raikaria would have no reason whatsoever to even pretend waiting for Dormio, since the more time Town has to discuss the better for Town; a Scum!Raikaria could've as easily said, "Dormio says he won't be back for deadline so #HAMMER".

tl;dr

I think Rawr is lurkscum
I think Zakeri is also lurkscum
but Rawr is worse because one post and the content therein is garbage

this much is possible for Bardiche what do you think


Cut by Raikaria. I swear. The people here.

[Sky_Paladin]

Well after seeing Dormio flip JoAT which is what I thought Mitsuki was crumbing, and after seeing Raikaria not hammering Mitsuki when he was a very valid counterlynch option and Mitsuki pulling a "Let's start a wagon on somebody who has zero votes rather than push not me over me" I was kind of back to team scum Raikaria/Mitsuki. 

But at least for the start of the day I really want to sheep Bard 100% on this

I kind of want to focus on the people who've been using the Mitsuki/SkyPal/Bard fiasco to hide in the shadows.

I called out Rawr, what, three times?  I would much rather we have flipped him than Dormio ugh.  So here's to helping.  ##vote DrRawr

[Mitsuki]

Good thing scum killed Dan since otherwise I'd probably have begun this day by voting him.

I've been re-evaluating some of my townreads, since I was townreading 6 out of 7 players alive, and there are 2 scum left. I think my CF7 townread is weak, but I'm not getting any scumvibes from him either and fortunately Shadoweh will post enough for me to get a read on her. Overall null.

Checked Zakeri's meta, as scum he tends to add fluff to his posts, while as town he is more concise. In case you want to check, town post, scum post (check the post linked and the one below).
I think Zakeri is scum based on this meta, if you check his content posts for this game (here) you'll see that most of what he's posted is him commenting on random stuff and not actually on scummy stuff. I think this is scummy regardless of meta, since scum will be motivated to add padding to their posts to seem active and contributing.

What I said about Zakeri usually being passive stands, but now I think it applies for him this game as well. I don't think he's been involved in the game, specially after leaving a wagon at L-1 close to deadline and not coming back to comment on it or to see how things were going.

##Vote: Zakeri

I think Rawr is more likely to be scum than CF7. I've been checking Rawr's town meta and he is way more active than this, has clear opinions and actively contributes to the game. Compare it to his play here, which has been extremely lazy and uninvolved. Again, I think this is scummy regardless of meta.

[Shadoweh]

Hi everyone, I read 0 perfcent of this game so far! how do you get vanilla in a game about drafting anyways
NOt THIS GIRL HA HA I PICKED NUMBER ONE

So how did Dormio get lynched as a Joat, and has there been a massclaim yet? This seems like a setup that would be broken the same way Prims suggesting we control all the rolls in Derfcom screwed over the mofia. I will actually read later when i won't be murffdered for it I LOVE YOU ALL

[Raikaria]

No-one claimed. [I even held out on the hammer as long as I could to give Dormio time to do so :/] Indeed, half the reason I hammered Dormio over Mitsuki was general activity differences. :/

Man activity in this game is so low. I basically echo the points made about Rawr; but I'm not going to vote him now because he's got a fair few votes and I will literally be unable to move my vote for 24 hours after this point because IRL stuff I have had arranged before I even signed up to this game.

I don't often read into people's town/scum meta outside of 'Serela waffles less' and there isn't even Celery in this game. But Mitsuki's pointing out makes me curious.

[Shadoweh]

Oh, okay,, you lynched Dormio without a claim while he was asleep out of nowhere. That's really super.
This entire last page is three people and one of them was the main wagon yesterday, is anyone actually playing this game? >_>
Well, I find it unlikely that the three people who just turned a wagon onto anotheer person instead of lynching Rairai are scum, though his own contribution is to lynch the easy person.  First impressions mean everything, but uhhhh i find it worrying you all lived instead of.. Dan. Yeah.

Next page: Maybe there will be more players on it like the ones being voted!

BTW i still think massclaiming is a good idea since no one can lie about it

[Raikaria]

I preferred the Dormio lynch to the Mitsuki lynch and there was like; 45 mins left during which I; the swingvote; was not available.

My hand was kinda forced.

[WHMZakeri]

I've had bad timing with sleep schedule.
Also, the Persona 5 trailer may have had something to do with it, although whether it did or not is really just a nitpicking of when I woke up that day.

So with Dormio Jack, and Dan Vanilla, I'm getting the suspicion that one of my worries may be true. if so, Shadoweh and Mitsuki are the most suspect to me, but to be honest this is based on role-spec alone so there's no real reason for me to go into it.

gonna skip everything I didn't miss, since it's either not changed, become less important than before, or a combination of both.

Like to question Mitsuki on why CF7xDormio was an actual thing, but I'm sure people have already done the questioning already and also it's likely to go nowhere asking after Dormio's flip. My gut read still remains, and I know there's no defense against it, but that's partly why I like my gut read (Even if others don't.)
I was dismissive of the case on bard yesterday, but actually reading it made me feel better about Mitsuki.

Therefore, Sky Paladin is Scum, because he employs three tactics which all serve to distract Town and further a Scum agenda.

##Unvote
##Vote: Mitsuki

##Vote: Bardiche
There is a serious amount of misdirection going on here. Bardiche has a three strikes your out strong case on sky, and then votes Mitsuki on the basis that he had already sent in a secret poison-vig on sky that gave him instant cop-results and decided it was time to move on from that.

(Seeing myself post after the point I considered "Missed content" messes with my memories of how the game went while I was here.)

I wanna nitpick at Bard for the overreaction to Raikaria, but at this point He might just be trying to pressure people at random. I emphasize random here because he doesn't even give Mitsuki time to react to being Sky's scumbuddy.

I agree that it is defensive.  Is defensiveness a scum-only quality?  Not rhetorical, I am genuinely curious. 

In itself, no. Everyone has or should have some stake in living through to the end of the game, if for no other reason than because your death contributes to your potential loss, regardless of the side you're on. That why I focused on the tone of the line and how aggressive it was. it implied higher stakes for Mitsuki, which scum subconsciously have both in persecution complex (Being the villains of the game), but also mathematical sense (Two scum lynches as oppose to three town lynches to game end). Of course the difference in numbers is negligible considering probabilities.

...Why do I suddenly get the feeling the Shadoweh and Bardiche are having private times right now?

Also I don't think claiming roles has any meaning for town. Not even as a means of convincing people not to lynch them at the end of the day. I feel like the way this game is set up, roles have no meaning outside of the actual results they produce, which it's not even likely that good results can be produced.

[WHMZakeri]

to add to rolespec theory: My last line about it having no meaning is why I'm withholding my stupid rolespec theory mentioned at the beginning.

[Sky_Paladin]

Regarding claims, if it can be explained how we can do it to benefit town, I'm all for it.  I was penciling in some reverse-draft-order psuedo-claiming thing but I couldn't make it work so I'm just playing fill-in-the-numbers on my spreadsheet. 

I'm not real happy with the Dormio lynch either since we had five players around and we could have lynched any of our afk players eg Rawr instead of an active, albeit lazy and annoying one.  I think it was mainly because Mitsuki reacted to Dormio's vote park and sleep.  Well I was dumb and tired so too bad. 

I am kind of burned out but I will look at the action around twelve hours from now.  We had an OMGUS from Mitsuki.  Something from Bard I can't remember, a lazy "Tell me where to vote" from me, flipped town Dan, and Raikaria who chose to save Mitsuki over Dormio.  Raikaria who was, like, half the games main scum pick, including Bard's for a main part of the day. 

So yeah I have a lot of questions to ask when I get off the meds. 

[SB]

Votecount 2.1
Dr Rawr (2): Bard, Sky Paladin
Zakeri (1): Mitsuki
Bard (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (3): Shadoweh, Raikaria, Dr Rawr

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. You have 56.25 hours left in the phase. A hammer is required to lynch.

Raikaria has limited access over the weekend.

[Mitsuki]

Shadoweh's posts make me think she's town on gut. Reasoning seems legit and I can see what she's thinking. Still, I want to see more posts from her.

@Zakeri, I'd like to see you reply to my post.

[Bardiche]

I think everything that's been posted thus far is stuff that... well, I just don't see much to reply to. I'd like it if people would like, y'know, scum hunt and be active instead of talk about tidbits in the area of, "This is stuff I want to talk about" and then not do. We've had quite

I was dismissive of the case on bard yesterday, but actually reading it made me feel better about Mitsuki.

I think this is interesting, because Zakeri has an admission of apparently not "actually reading" Mitsuki's case on me. I think this is significant, because the Mitsuki/SkyPal/Bard trifecta is easy the noisiest thing from Day 1.

His vote on me continues his behaviour from Day 1, where he focuses on a singular point and just hasn't much of a case. If you strip his post of every piece of nonsense he spouts, there's hardly anything left.

I'm tempted to move my vote over, but I don't want to let Rawr escape attention.

[Bardiche]

"We've had quite" some time since the Day began, and it's disappointing that after 20 hours, no one's even deigned to reply to anything that's happened on Day 2 yet aside from Sky Paladin.

[Bardiche]

EBWOP: I guess Mitsuki also kind of responded to Day 2 stuff.

[Sky_Paladin]

Rawr's online status says he was around six hours ago, so he's seen what we have to say. 

Given his day 1 performance, I will not assume he is busy, and in fact assume that he is avoiding the game because he is lurking scum hoping we will mislynch another towny. 

I'm off to bed.  Tomorrow I will review the game with fresh eyes and see if there was anything to my suspicion of Rai/Mitsuki/Bard to play with. 

Also eagerly awaiting Shadoweh's insight. 

[Bardiche]

I dislike using online times against people, I get online from uni and work to check Mafiers but that doesn't mean I've time to post!

[Bardiche]

So I re-read Zakeri's posts and I'm interested in his opinions on Not!Bardiche. This includes Mitsuki (you flip-flop about her in your post and conclude you "feel better": is that Town or Scum?), but I am also interested in Rawr (if you're voting me, clearly you take my current position in account) as well as your opinion on Raikaria and Sky Paladin.

[Dr Rawr]

Rawr's online status says he was around six hours ago, so he's seen what we have to say. 

:smug:

I think Rawr is more likely to be scum than CF7. I've been checking Rawr's town meta and he is way more active than this, has clear opinions and actively contributes to the game. Compare it to his play here, which has been extremely lazy and uninvolved. Again, I think this is scummy regardless of meta.

if you look further back you will see me doing this every game

This is cheerleading my case on Sky Paladin without taking a stance one way or the other. "Bardiche isn't wrong" doesn't equal "Bardiche is right", and DrRawr deigns not to make a judgement one way or the other.

huh i thought of it as more of a why are people voting bardiche over his case on skypaladin. i didnt actually think that i was cheerleading sky paladin when i made that post.

i  still dont have much time to post atm but ill throw a vote down or something
##Vote: Skypaladin
i think scum are just creating uninformative lynches and night kills after actiondan got night killed. i cant see any particular reason as to why he was killed over shadoweh mituski and zakeri unless scum are part of that group or something like that. also i dont think ive ever seen someone call them out based on when they were lest online which makes me feel like hes just trying to rush through this lynch.

anyways i guess ill make some stupid as hell posts at work or something

[Mitsuki]

i dont think ive ever seen someone call them out based on when they were lest online which makes me feel like hes just trying to rush through this lynch.

How is this enough to grant a vote on SkyPal. Also his vote was the second vote on you, how is that rushing a lynch?
What do you think of Zakeri and Shadoweh?

[WHMZakeri]

@Zakeri, I'd like to see you reply to my post.

Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your case on me, but the reason I didn't respond is because I don't think there's anything I can add besides distraction or white noise.

I don't really pay attention to meta unless it's surface level stuff like Raikaria always offending enough people on day one to get a serious wagon going. I also don't read myself too much, so I can't argue meta on myself.
I tend to be passive with a lot of things in life, As for the part of your case you put forth as a genuine scumtell, I think it works as a scumtell, so the only argument I can really put up against it is "I'm still town, though."

I don't think Shadoweh has said enough of anything to get any sort of read on her, Gut or not. Least, not at the time Mitsuki says she gets one on her.

I am flipflopping on Mitsuki in real life, too. I've mostly settled with her and Sky being town for now, as a result of the d1spat between those two and Bardiche. I didn't say anything of Rawr because he doesn't have any presence. I'm pretty certain this is a majority of the reason why people are voting for him, and I have no qualms with him getting lynched for it, either.
Also, for Raikaria, I do believe a lot of the way he treated early game rolespec is a soft towntell, so in general I'm leaning town on Mitsuki, Raikaria, and Sky. That leaves the other three to be targets of suspicion

speaking of on board with Rawr's lynch, Dr. Rawr you do realize that the first two-thirds of your paragraph explaining your suspicion on sky is a non-sequitor, right?

[Dr Rawr]

You do realize that was like 3 days ago right?

[Mitsuki]

I don't think Shadoweh has said enough of anything to get any sort of read on her, Gut or not. Least, not at the time Mitsuki says she gets one on her.

Do not underestimate my gut townreads. I can get townreads pretty fast into a game, and they tend to be accurate.
At least on irl mafia but details. Shadoweh's line of reasoning seemed townie to me. I don't see how a few posts with opinions wouldn't be enough to begin to figure out what she's thinking.

Anyways, I don't like this. Commenting on reads is a thing but I don't like how Zakeri selectively tries to dissuade a townread on someone he has no read on. Note that he only comments on the validity of the townread itself, not on how such a read may help to read me, and he doesn't give a real explanation on why my townread would be wrong. Reads like Zakeri is afraid of being PoEd as scum and therefore tries to dissuade townreads on other people.
Also, if Zakeri was actually motivated to get people to use "proper" reads he'd comment on other people's scumreads and try to dissuade reads opposite from his own, since he'd want to get his suspects lynched. I find the lack of such an intentionality scummy as well.

[Dr Rawr]

How is this enough to grant a vote on SkyPal. Also his vote was the second vote on you, how is that rushing a lynch?
What do you think of Zakeri and Shadoweh?

It's enough for me to vote sky paladin and explains the action Dan kill. Pretty obvious he's rushing it or elese he wouldn't have talked about the least time I was on the forum and how I haven't posted. Also 4 to lynch so assuming bard isn't Scum it takes someone else then ez Scum hammer because i haven't posted

[Bardiche]

DrRawr, why exactly are you using the ActionDan kill to indict Sky Paladin? I don't think we've ever used Night Kill Speculation to seriously finger someone, and I have no idea in what way an ActionDan kill implicates anyone. Killing ActionDan over Zakeri, CF7 and Mitsuki implies Sky Paladin scum exactly how? Why are you singling those three out?

[Dr Rawr]

I'm not directly using actiondan death to implicate skypaladin. I'm just saying with what I feel like skypaladin rushing for the lynch on me I feel like it's Scum agenda to get rid of the weak townies. Why those 3? Because I feel like they have the highest chance of having a role seeing as Dan flipped vanilla. Unless everyone after cf7 chose the same role as him.

[Raikaria]

It's 11pm; I'm back; I see nothing much seems to have occured.

I am going to wait until morning and post stuff before I leaver then. Too late for mafias.

[Sky_Paladin]

Rawr;

i  still dont have much time to post atm but ill throw a vote down or something

You've made no effort to address Just's case on you.  You are clearly only voting me because I am voting you. 

i think scum are just creating uninformative lynches and night kills after actiondan got night killed. i cant see any particular reason as to why he was killed over shadoweh mituski and zakeri unless scum are part of that group or something like that. also i dont think ive ever seen someone call them out based on when they were lest online which makes me feel like hes just trying to rush through this lynch.

Couple of points. 

1 - 'I think scum are just creating uninformative lynches' who specifically is creating 'uninformative' lynches? 

2 - 'i cant see any particular reason as to why he (Dan) was killed'.  Nobody was asking why Dan was killed.  You brought it up out of nowhere. 
My guess?  Dan is never night killed by scum, except when scum are new players, as he's too valuable as mislynch material in LYLO.  So he would have been targeted either because scum were looking for roled town outside of the likely medic coverage, or he got invited to a scum-neighbourizer like last game and outed himself as roled. 

But since we're talking, I'll echo Just - why do you think Dan was nightkilled, and how do you think it implicates me? 

3 - 'i dont think ive ever seen someone call them out based on when they were lest online' I call players out for being online and not posting all the time, and in fact Mitsuki *this game* called out Dormio, Bard and Raikaria in the previous day phase for this exact thing.  How does this equate to 'rushing a lynch' and why does it apply to me and not Just? 

4 - 'I feel like it's Scum agenda to get rid of the weak townies.'

Please talk more about point number 4. 

[Dr Rawr]

nope