Author Topic: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)  (Read 209281 times)

Savory

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #660 on: January 22, 2015, 08:22:57 AM »
Yeah, it's all over.

But what irks me the most is that it seems Saijee learned nothing from this. I talked to him after watching that video and he said he has no regrets about what he did. There were so many bad choices and a myriad of errors that went on with this, but Saijee fails to address those and proceeds to throw others under the bus just to justify his actions. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who caught the passive-aggressive undertones.

Whatever. Good riddance.

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #661 on: January 22, 2015, 08:25:14 AM »
Currently at work. I've been skimming the transcript quickly but all I can note and see is "bitching and whining".  The transcript is a major copy paste of this post: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1158597.html#msg1158597

Also, 90% of what is complained by Saijee is already covered by Drake's post and my post.
Drake > https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1158714.html#msg1158714
Hele > https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1158716.html#msg1158716


I am not going to write an elaborate response on the transcript because it is already covered. I am done with repeating my self. I will point out a few things in his transcript tonight when I am home, and explain why Saijee has been maximum immature and maximum ignorant in this whole process.

You do realise this whole incident is your, and your only fault? Shoving the blame and whining about the guidelines. Really immature behaviour.



Savory

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #662 on: January 22, 2015, 08:29:22 AM »
You do realise this whole incident is your, and your only fault? Shoving the blame and whining about the guidelines. Really immature behaviour.

No, he doesn't. And yes, he exhibited very immature behavior.

Flandre5carlet

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #663 on: January 22, 2015, 08:33:06 AM »
Pretty much second the general feelings of about everybody here. Incredibly disappointing outcome that could have been majorly avoided, had Saijee actually read posts such as those Helepolis linked. Total, total shame.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #664 on: January 22, 2015, 08:36:07 AM »
I admit that this wasn't the ideal way that things could have ended up, but I think that in the end I am very happy with the result I winded up with:
I now have the chance to make my own fighting game and put it on the Wii U. And I am happy with this. It's a shame that it couldn't have been an actual Touhou fangame, yes I know. But I'm willing to let Touhou go now.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 08:41:10 AM by Saijee »

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #665 on: January 22, 2015, 08:54:10 AM »
Okay. Now that my posts are removed to here I guess more people to discuss with :D
Please can you guys present your ideas about specific points that I mention on the posts that has been moved to here.


Helepolis

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #666 on: January 22, 2015, 09:04:23 AM »
Okay. Now that my posts are removed to here I guess more people to discuss with :D
Please can you guys present your ideas about specific points that I mention on the posts that has been moved to here.
That has been already done. And maybe start reading from page 1. Because your questions are all answered over the last 22 pages.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #667 on: January 22, 2015, 11:44:03 AM »
Directly before the last post I made,  I actually did not read the thread. I was just happy to have the weight-lifted off my shoulders.
Finally it occurred to me that I should read all the posts and I finished right now.

I just wanted to say something important on this thread before the posts continues.

I publicly make an apology to everyone here who has been frustrated or offended that I didn't respond.

I admit that going into this project, I was that oblivious of how the doujin culture actually works compared to many others here.  I should have known where to seek advice when I had little idea about what I am dealing with. I got carried away with other things and lost my way where to turn. 

It is true that I have not responded quickly. I am deeply sorry that I just couldn't. I understand that there is a rich intelligent conversation regarding Touhou. I really have a deep respect for this forum. Going through the last 5 pages, Helepolis you are right about a lot of things. But I don't mean to have been ditching anyone. I literally couldn't keep up with this forum because of how much critical thinking and memorization and time reading it takes to do this forum justice while balancing my time as a content creator on youtube and facebook. Unlike here, youtube and Facebook alert the moment that someone posts anything, and I feel obligated to do what I can whenever someone with a concern that I can answer is visible. And maybe that was it: maybe after seeing all those red boxed numbers popping up in between minutes, that were easy 1 question 1 answer format made me incapable to engage in active discussion here because this is a totally different class from just youtube or Facebook or any other instant messages. This place requires really a lot more effort to respond and my abilities couldn't stretch that much.   

You are all right, TSSB on the most conceptual of levels started here. And I used to have only a few hundred subs on YT, it used to be rare for me to make a video that could get more than 200 views or 6 comments. It was a simpler time then, and I had more attention to this place.

Reading your comments, I see that many of you feel like I have betrayed you and I am sorry for that. I wish I could have more attention span, I wish I could process and communicate and work faster, I wish I didn't need to spend time doing boring normal human activities like sleeping. But, there was so little time to in order to get ready for the explanations of the situation at stake that during my 2 days of absence here, I was not able to interact on other medias much either.

I'm happy that I've been able to get this far, and I know I wouldn't have gotten here without the this forum. The past few days I've had to process so much information that I don't even know the difference between day and night anymore. But now I remember who I was before all of this, how everyone did help out. I remember how people were excited about the concept. I remember that picture that detailed sprites ideas for Nue special attacks. I remember how someone directly helped make a much better looking graphic for the eye texture for the characters.

With all that I've been through these past few days, those are things that I have forgotten who I used to be, but now I remember that you all have always been the foundation for everything that this project has amounted to.

I thank for all the support you have given me and I also sincerely apologize for not being able to give you the attention and respect people here deserved
I will reflect on these events and try to become a better game developer.




Thank you for reminding me who I was before everything changed, when I was just on the brink of forgetting my start.

iK

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #668 on: January 22, 2015, 12:01:00 PM »
The large issue at hand is and always was: Get everyone refunded.

It's as simple as that. Don't get everyone refunded unless they insist you keep it. Get everyone refunded, flat.

Since this project's inception, I've been a supporter, and was suspicious of the issues in principle of crowdfunding a derivative work.

Ensure you are getting everyone that contributed their money back, ensure it is done, and ensure that TSA knows it is done, and there will be no problem.
[☰] [☴] [☵] [☶] [☷] [☳] [☲] [☱]

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #669 on: January 22, 2015, 12:26:01 PM »
You know,
There was nothing stopping you from finishing the game as it was as after the IGG campaign got canceled.

We've suggested ways for you to make it work without actually selling the game itself.

The game didn't really need to be on Wii U nor Steam either.

I probably won't follow the project as much as I used to and at this point it seems you've given up for no reason.

EDIT:Also, Naming it "Southeast" and making them be like Touhou characters is redundant. At that point you might as well just continue the original game as intended without selling it

You claim that the money wasn't really important but seem to really want it sold on Wii U and Steam. 

There's a reason why smash brothers is popular in the first place and as YOU said before nobody really wants to play as nobodies no matter what they're based on.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 12:38:54 PM by Reu »
Sometimes Streams at Hitbox.tv/Reu

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #670 on: January 22, 2015, 12:47:37 PM »
Hmm, why steam and wii u?

Well Wii U because it'd just be so easy to make this a fun experience to be brought along side Smash Wii U, because as far as local tournaments goes it would not require any more equipment.

Why steam? Because a lot of people on FB and YT said they want it on steam because that would make it easy to share with their friends.

Numbers matter to me, but not in profits, I am most happy when I can know that more people are having fun with my games.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #671 on: January 22, 2015, 12:50:15 PM »
......Really? "Doujin Spirit"? That's about as passive-aggressive as pouring salt into an open wound is. Not to mention that painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa and calling it "Mona Leesa" doesn't make it any more your own IP..... There's nothing stopping FSS from completing the original project at this point. This entire thread is full of helpful suggestions and people willing to go out of their way to help FSS succeed without violating anyone's guidelines. This can still succeed as both a doujin game and a Touhou fangame. Unless the whole point is so it can be distributed to a more commercial platform like the WiiU/Steam. Which, again, begs the question: "Doujin Spirit"?

Well.... if anything, this thread should be stickied as a golden example of how not to make a fangame. (Yeah, I know nobody reads stickies, but at least it won't get pushed down to page 42 by the time it needs to be referenced again. =) )

Reu

  • Ambitious Youkai
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #672 on: January 22, 2015, 12:56:52 PM »
Hmm, why steam and wii u?

Well Wii U because it'd just be so easy to make this a fun experience to be brought along side Smash Wii U, because as far as local tournaments goes it would not require any more equipment.

Why steam? Because a lot of people on FB and YT said they want it on steam because that would make it easy to share with their friends.

Numbers matter to me, but not in profits, I am most happy when I can know that more people are having fun with my games.

Like I said before.
IF you're going to make them be like "Touhou Characters but totally not" you might as well finish the game as intended and make it a donation-ware project or even simply have a donation button on your website which is without a doubt the easiest way to share a game since it will be FREE to download.
Why play your game over smash 4? What does it have over it?
Who's in your game? What franchises?

And I assure you those fans was also interested because it was Touhou.
Sometimes Streams at Hitbox.tv/Reu

Prime32

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #673 on: January 22, 2015, 01:00:01 PM »
Well Steam is a no-go because of identity confusion among people with vague understandings of what Touhou is (in particular, with the name "Touhou Super Smash Battles" there would be SSB players who just shorten it to "Touhou", and that's... bad).

Might it be possible to provide a download for the PC version on your own site, and burn Wii U discs for tournament organisers who are interested? Or are you limited to eShop releases?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 01:01:43 PM by Prime32 »

gtbot

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #674 on: January 22, 2015, 01:30:51 PM »
南西? Nansei? I implore you to use another name... LENK64 already has a (long running) series with the same name. It'd be a shame for her if you used the same name.

(It's my understanding that 南西 translates into Southwest, which is fairly generic, much like what 東方 literally translates into, so I don't blame you for thinking it up, since LENK64 isn't super well known. There might even be more Nansei's that we're all unaware of, but...)

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #675 on: January 22, 2015, 01:39:05 PM »
南西? Nansei? I implore you to use another name... LENK64 already has a (long running) series with the same name. It'd be a shame for her if you used the same name.

(It's my understanding that 南西 translates into Southwest, which is fairly generic, much like what 東方 literally translates into, so I don't blame you for thinking it up, since LENK64 isn't super well known. There might even be more Nansei's that we're all unaware of, but...)

......Really? "Doujin Spirit"? That's about as passive-aggressive as pouring salt into an open wound is. Not to mention that painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa and calling it "Mona Leesa" doesn't make it any more your own IP.....

I agree with these comments, this name reminds me those Iphone smartphones from China with names like HiPhone or 1Phone...
My youtube channel with my creations: https://www.youtube.com/user/KazeSenshi2929
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Prime32

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #676 on: January 22, 2015, 01:50:25 PM »
As long as you distribute it without any intermediaries involved, and take "Touhou" out of the name, you should still be able to keep the game as it is.

Though you really need a boilerplate to put in your videos and the loading screen, explaining things in both English and Japanese. Maybe take some inspiration from abridged series and use something like "This is a fan-made tribute to 'Super Smash Bros.' by Nintendo, and 'Touhou Project' by Team Shanghai Alice. Content depicted within may not be representative of the original franchises."
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 01:55:20 PM by Prime32 »

Reu

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #677 on: January 22, 2015, 01:54:02 PM »
As long as you distribute it without any intermediaries involved, and take "Touhou" out of the name, you should still be able to keep the game as it is.

Though you really need a boilerplate to put in your videos and the loading screen, explaining things in both English and Japanese. Maybe take some inspiration from abridged series and use something like "This is a fan-made tribute to 'Super Smash Bros.' by Nintendo, and 'Touhou Project' by Team Shanghai Alice. Content depicted within may not be representative of the original franchises."

Pretty much this.
The game didn't really need a change after IGG was done.

All you really had to do was change perhaps your name and continue development.
Sometimes Streams at Hitbox.tv/Reu

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #678 on: January 22, 2015, 02:00:31 PM »
Moderation note, I am leaving this thread alive until Saturday or something before archiving it with a final message in general.

Saijee's dev thread will remain untouched, but if the game has lost its Toho derived theme it means it no longer suitable in RikaNitori as we're unfortunately focussing on Touhou. It will have to go to board sections such as Akyu (non-Touhou). I'll let him think about that and he is free to start a new thread there for his new project.


Sparen

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #679 on: January 22, 2015, 03:06:05 PM »
Well, it's basically over now. Hopefully the Western Touhou Community will learn from the mistakes that FSS made, and developers will think twice before using Google Translate for legal issues.

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #680 on: January 22, 2015, 03:16:29 PM »
Yeah. It is. I really wanted this project to be a success, and I feel a bit sad that this was the way it had to end. I keep on telling myself that if the whole crowdfunding campaign that led to these issues hadn't taken place, this game would eventually become what we all would have imagined it to be, even if it took much longer to develop.

Hopefully, this incident (and associated thread) can serve as an example of what's frowned upon in the doujin scene and lead others away from making the same mistakes.

Whatever else FSS does, I wish them luck in their endeavors.

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #681 on: January 22, 2015, 04:30:13 PM »
Wait wait what the heck is going on? We had this settled, and now the Touhou theme in general is getting dropped? What even just happened?

Man, Saijee, you had victory in your pocket and now you're kinda throwing it out the window. TSSB will become another warning name now instead of at least a partial success story. It'll end up like the GS card game. You even had the perfect compromise: you refund *all* the money and all the game elements you care to keep from fan choice stay in game. I don't even know. It's like you just decided you don't give a crap after this entire fight.

And you're going to lose a loooot of folks this way. So many people were in it to see Touhou go Smash, not just to play someone's random Smasher.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 04:36:45 PM by Alcoraiden »

Pywackett-Barchetta

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #682 on: January 22, 2015, 04:33:22 PM »
So, if I'm reading this right, the Touhou characters and all are being totally dropped in favor of being on the Wii U and Steam, now that it's been entirely cleared and approved to work as a Touhou fangame? I will admit I did say it wasn't the worst option, but...

Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #683 on: January 22, 2015, 05:03:17 PM »
I think he is mainly worried about ZUN claiming copyright on their game even if they don't sell it, due to the copyright claim. If you can talk with Shanhai alice about that, and see if you can make the a free donationware touhou smasher, then do that. If you cannot, and you still want to make your own smasher, then do your current plan. I would prefer the 1st option, because a touhou smasher is a great idea, but I can see the worry of getting it shut down after doing all that work. It would be a simular case of Fighting is Magic. They were never gonna sell it, but hasbro still filed copyright, and ZUN can do the same.

Long story short, best to make 100% sure alice and ZUN are ok with you making this before you give up on it. I have a feeling they only claimed copyright on the IGG page to get it taken down and not confuse people.

And I am glad that you Saijee have learned something from this, and you realized you made some mistakes. At times you came off as rude or passive aggressive towards ZUN, but I still think you meant well. I am happy that I will have Tewi or tewi light in this game, regardless of the road it goes down.

ExPorygon

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #684 on: January 22, 2015, 05:10:40 PM »
Ok. I haven't been able to watch FSS's latest video yet due to the fact that I'm at work but from what I'm reading in this thread I assume that they have decided to drop Touhou Smash as a Touhou derivative game and make it with non Touhou characters (please correct me if I'm wrong). If that is the case, then I want to express that I am extremely disappointed with this direction for a number of reasons.

First off, your game, in its current state, is fundamentally nothing more than a Super Smash Bros clone with Touhou characters. Take out the Touhou characters and you're left with nothing but a Smash clone. Quite frankly, unless you change up the gameplay significantly from what it is currently, what reason would I ever have to play this when I can play the official Super Smash Bros games? And if I'm looking for a more competitive Smash game with Melee mechanics, why would I play your game when I can just play Project M? This game is going to need a lot of changes if you expect it to achieve a unique niche next to the official Smash games and their mods.

One of the biggest appeals of Smash and what truly got it off the ground was the ability to play as your favorite Nintendo characters from multiple beloved franchises. Touhou Smash had a similar appeal as you could play as your favorite Touhou characters. A smash game with ORIGINAL characters only, simply isn't going to appeal to people, in my opinion, at least not as much as the original Smash Bros and Touhou Smash would have. Regardless of how good the gameplay might be, few are going to want to even try it. I'm not trying to say that your original characters are going to be bad/uninteresting, but thinking they're going to gain as much attention as characters that people already know and love is just foolish.

There are a few reasons that I assume are why you are choosing this course of action. One possible reason is to avoid future controversy over the Touhou name. Given all that has happened up to this point, I can certainly understand that point of view. However, there will be no further controversy now that the IGG campaign has been cancelled. You can simply continue development and release it in increments, if time is an issue. The only thing that anyone took issue with was the IGG campaign, and that has disappeared.

The other possible reason is that you REALLY wanted the crowdfunding but can't due to ZUN's rules, which I assume means you will try to run a new IGG campaign for your original smash game. I really hope you don't expect to raise even close to the same amount of money when you take Touhou out of the equation. Saijee, you mentioned in one of your videos that a previous IGG campaign you ran for an original game flopped hard. For the reasons stated above, I severely doubt you will do much better with a non-Touhou Smash game. I know your group has more exposure now but, let's face it, Touhou is why we all initially cared for this project.

Furthermore, I have to question why you think you need crowdfunding at all. What's wrong with releasing the game in increments over a long period of time? It seems like you want the game to be this huge masterpiece AND for it to not take very long to make. Moreover, I know you've said that you don't want to make any money off the game but by making the game to be this huge thing I can't help but feel like you wanted (and still want) this game to make FFS famous and to be the launching point for a possible career as a game dev. I have no problem with that, but that kind of aspiration may partially go against being a Doujin developer, I think. Doujin devs make games as a hobby, not as their career and certainly not to be famous, nor do they very often turn their hobby into a career, AFAIK. In short, I know you said you don't want to make money off of THIS game, but how far am I off the mark would I be if I were to say that you want to EVENTUALLY make money off of games you make, thus making it into a career? I have also noticed your intent to publish for the Wii U and Steam, which seems to be what you wanted to do with Touhou Smash from the start but were not able to while keeping it as a Touhou derivative. This also convinces me that you are less interested in making a fangame simply as a Touhou fan and more to gain notoriety as a game dev and to further your careers.

If my last point is correct, then perhaps you are better off making this an original game, since a Doujin development path doesn't seem to interest you as much as a Western Indie development path does. Sorry If I was long winded with this post, but with all the time I've invested into this project by following and posting in this thread I am a tad frustrated to see it all going to waste, in my eyes at least.

In case it wasn't obvious, if this game is truly going to be Non-Touhou, then I am unfortunately 0% interested in it any longer. I know I cannot be the only one who feels this way. I wish you guys luck with whatever you choose to pursue, but with your current course of action, I will not be supporting or following this game in ANY way, for the reasons stated above.

I will be copypasting this to places like Youtube where they're more likely to see it after I watch the video. I may also be editing this post to reflect changes in my opinion when I am able to see the video. Let me know if I have any information wrong in the meantime.

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #685 on: January 22, 2015, 05:11:52 PM »
I will also state that you should ignore any remaining haters on Youtube/Facebook and make this Touhou. I am not at all involved in this game and will not be one whit interested, like ExPorygon, if it just departs the Touhou setting. We tried here to get this worked out, and you've just kinda...walked out on us. Maybe it sounds entitled or whatever, but we all spent quite a lot of brainpower here trying to help, and now you throw in the towel and take the easy way out.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 05:15:16 PM by Alcoraiden »

Suspicious person

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #686 on: January 22, 2015, 05:17:11 PM »
Well that wasn't the kind of conclusion I expected  :(

*WARNING: RANT*
FSS's last video regarding the TSSB incident pretty much seem to me like making a martyr out of themselves and put the blame on ZUN AND his guidelines : the way they put the stress on the admittedly ambiguous guidelines seriously shows... and the arguments they used were already answered in this thread! The passive agressiveness was such that drawing a middle finger would have costed significantly way less time... especially if they were going to settle for an original game... a simple video announcing their decision to settle on an original game instead of a Touhou one would have been way wiser... May I also say that trying to drag down the MyACG along was a pretty damn low blow? I don't really want to think that this thread was a complete waste of brain cells but oh well.
*RANT END*

With this case, until the guidelines get updated, we should clarify what MUST NOT be done when making a Touhou doujin work (to avoid future  overseas circles screwing up):
1- Wait for ZUN's approval (if required)
2-WAIT for ZUN's approval (if required)
3- WAIT FOR ZUN'S APPROVAL (if required)
4- State of the art Disclaimers
5- Authorised channels for distribution, conventions familiar with doujin culture, donationware, N Forza
6- No crowdfunding for Christ, the deer lord, and the giant-invisible-spaghetti-monster-flying-in-outer-space's sake
7- No advertissement (in case of) in public site where Touhou is unlikely to be heard of
8- An advice is fine too
9- Doujin does NOT work the same way Indie does
10- Appearance is relevant : if it is not perceived as doujin IT IS NOT. Touhou derivative works are exclusively doujin ones
11- In case you run into trouble, either reach an agreement with TSA or solve the issue
12- BE GODDAMN PATIENT
(We seriously need to make a list of How-not-to-doujin before another incident like this happens again)

It was a great that MotK had an impact (obviously) on the way things unfolded, especially since TSSB more or less originated here, but I guess it comes down to the devs themselves... Oh well. No use crying over spilled milk. Hope FSS's new project goes smoothly. The incident's settled, we're of to the tea party  :V (no extra stage fer ya, it got cancelled along with the perks)

Tengukami

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Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #687 on: January 22, 2015, 05:18:48 PM »
I will also state that you should ignore any remaining haters on Youtube/Facebook and make this Touhou. I am not at all involved in this game and will not be one whit interested, like ExPorygon, if it just departs the Touhou setting. We tried here to get this worked out, and you've just kinda...walked out on us. Maybe it sounds entitled or whatever, but we all spent quite a lot of brainpower here trying to help, and now you throw in the towel and take the easy way out.

I don't know why people are confused about why the Touhou characters were dropped.

Game with Touhou characters = you can't crowdfund, but it will attract a large, ready-made fanbase.
Game without Touhou characters = you can crowdfund, but it will take a lot to get people interested.

This is what FSS has dug in their heels about from the beginning: they wanted it both ways. In the end I think Saijee made the right decision, but I think instead of some Touhou-esque type knock-off characters, it might be better to show a little imagination and create something really new and exciting. Knock-offs are more likely to repel Touhou fans than attract them. Something utterly cool and different, though, might very well be appealing.

I mean, we have a thread about Girls Who Are Warships that seems to max out its post limit every few weeks or so. Try something new, who knows, you might be able to start a legacy of your own.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #688 on: January 22, 2015, 05:21:00 PM »
I guess part of why *I* was invested is because of how many characters were here that rarely, if ever, make it into fangames. So much for like...any of them. ><

Dude, the Touhou fans are already repelled. I'm furious at how vile the community is being to him on Facebook and other places that aren't here. Yes, he fucked up, but it's no excuse to keep dragging his nose all in it and engaging in stereotypical internet name-calling. It sucks hard enough to be made an example of, I assume, as people are basically going to do here now. "How not to do it" is not really how people at all plan or want to go out as. Anyone who hasn't formed an opinion now is pretty rare and late to this party, I assume.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 05:22:59 PM by Alcoraiden »

ExPorygon

  • Veteran Danmakufu Scripter
  • Currently working on a full Touhou fangame!
    • Ephemeral Entertainment
Re: Touhou Smash crowdfunding and ZUN's fancreation rules (discussion thread)
« Reply #689 on: January 22, 2015, 05:21:45 PM »
This is what FSS has dug in their heels about from the beginning: they wanted it both ways. In the end I think Saijee made the right decision, but I think instead of some Touhou-esque type knock-off characters, it might be better to show a little imagination and create something really new and exciting. Knock-offs are more likely to repel Touhou fans than attract them. Something utterly cool and different, though, might very well be appealing.
What I'm trying to say is that CURRENTLY if you take out the Touhou there is nothing new and exciting about the game. It's just a Super Smash Bros. clone. I'm not saying that it can't become that way, but it's going to take a lot more effort and quite frankly probably won't catch my interest regardless.

Edit: Also, to be clear, I'm not surprised that they did this. You basically said in a few words what I was trying to get across mainly in that massive wall. I'm just personally disappointed that they did.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 05:24:27 PM by ExPorygon »