The Yurikuma Arashi thread will eat you!

[UncertainJakutten]

Sorry to double post but episode 5 just happeend and...

Spoiler:

Uh...I'm speechless. I...this isn't cool at all! Like, I figured that the whole ~*~let's be friends~*~ thing was fake, but geez, that was one hell of an anvil. So basically, the Invisible Storm, or mainstream society, has noticed predators congregating around their convenient outcast, and are using her as bait, much like the marginalized tend to be sacrificed, to catch one. Hell, it probably goes deeper than that depending on what symbolism Ginko and Lulu are really supposed to have, but, I mean...geez. Just, that episode, I don't even know what to think.

Spoiler:

ADDENDUM: In the wake of THE THING happening, I completely forgot Sumika's apparent note, presented with what suspiciously seems like a prediction of her future. Sumika KNOWS things and is still up to stuff, I expect, and it will probably be the only thing that ACTUALLY protects Kureha from the Invisible Storm. More related to THE THING: I look forward to Lulu developing her own love, in light of events. She can't go on without development without Ginko as her crutch.

[Rotten]

floating chunks of salmon-chan make for 10/10 kawaii background

[Nietz]

Spoiler:

Yeah, that was an unbearably evil act by the Invisi-Stormfronters there. And not a even cool kind of evil like Yurizono. I still expect Ginko to survive, being a main character and all, unless we're in for a huge IKUNI SHOCK.

I still got a little bit annoyed at Ginko's egotistical delusions and attitude in this episode though. Lulu has genuine feelings for her, but it seems Ginko is just stringing her along in a selfish manner.

[attach=1]
And for a bit of trivia: The military emblem in this scene is actually based on a real Polish one, which was in turn inspired by an actual bear soldier.

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

I'm sure there was loads of symbolism in episode 6, but you know what? I don't care because that was SUPER FUCKING ADORABLE OH MY GOSH. I am mildly disappointed Ginko wasn't dead (narratively! From a character standpoint I'm happy she's alive!), but I think that Ginko likely getting to be "friends" with Kureha will lead to interesting things for Lulu regardless...and I am very curious what will happen when Kureha finds out Ginko (and Lulu) are bears.

[Edible]

That post-credits scene, though.

:V

[UncertainJakutten]

Aww, that's just how you know the series is winding up. Penguindrum started having post credits scenes at some point, not sure when, I got caught by surprise by one. Definitely later in the series though.

[UncertainJakutten]

I am double posting and I don't care. Also episode 8 spoilers.

Spoiler:

Episode 8 is NOT OK. IT IS NOT FRIGGEN OK!

Yuri=Bear definitely confirmed with the Yuriika reveal, and I guess you weren't supposed to figure that out 'cuz it got played straight and then WHAT DID LULU SAY ABOUT SUMIKA!? Definitely not killer, we saw a flashback. While Yuriika definitely gave Lulu that note and could have lied, I'm pretty sure that whatever Lulu had to say was somehow worse than killing Sumika, since clearly Ginko DID do something...ah, geez, dammit WHY ISN'T IT NEXT MONDAY ALREADY

[Nietz]

Spoiler:

I had the impression that Ginko's crime was bearing witness to Yurizono attacking and eating Sumika and doing nothing to help. Or maybe it was worse, and she somewhat contributed to Sumika getting eaten.
I wonder if it was really Yuriika who sent that note, I'm suspicious it could have been Yurizono, who I suspect is still alive and was Kaoru's lover/killer.

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

Looks like you called it, Nietz. "Sumika's Killer's Accomplice" Ikuhara you bastard. SO! I admit my analysis brain wasn't very on for this episode, but, did anyone else notice that Yuriika adopted the identity of one of the VERY FEW MEN in this show before attempting to rape Kureha? I'm also wondering if we just got shown what eating /really/ is, and Ginko didn't witness a killing...but a rape, and did nothing about it, which, uh, yeah, she can get shot all fucking day for that.

Which kind of makes me wonder why I am angrier about her not stopping a potential rape than I am about her not stopping a killing. That's...damn Ikuhara >.> <.<.

I'm also curious what that stinger at the end is about...I'm also nervous about that weirdness with Yurizono representing ~*~desire~*~ and entering Ginko, so...well, we're definitely not out of the woods yet.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Okay okay okay since this is apparently winding up in a week or so I'm marathoning the shit out of this and loving it

I just finished episode 6 and I'm just kind of a ball of whimpering disgruntledness over it all like noooooooooo that was the most fucking cruel thing ever holy shit

[UncertainJakutten]

WELCOME TO LESBEARS MATSY, WHERE EVERYTHING IS NOT OK (Gao~ gao~)

[MatsuriSakuragi]

episode 11 was not okay
episode 11 was not okay
episode 11 was not okay
EPISODE 11 WAS NOT FUCKING OKAY

Spoiler:

LULU NO

Real talk, though, now that I'm caught up:

I'm definitely enjoying this, and yet god damn it all if I'm not desperately wishing this was a longer series like Utena or Penguindrum was. I mean, like, all of the elements that could make this super incredible are there-- there's not one element of the story I straight-up dislike-- but it's the execution and length that's bothering me.

Every episode comes on super strong and gives revelations and puzzle pieces for putting the story together-- so it's too easy to become desensitized without time to let the impacts settle in. That, and I just don't feel as invested in the characters as I should because of that, and it's making some of the emotional impacts more dull than they should be. Like, I can feel bad for and identify with Kureha/Ginko/Lulu (especially Ginko and Lulu because ow), but I guess it's just not hitting me in the core like Penguindrum did. It's not fair for me to judge it based on my standards for my all-time favorite anime ever though.

I think once the show is finished I'll take some time to reflect on it more. Maybe there's something I've missed.

[Nietz]

Spoiler:

LULUUUUUU! ;_;
Yeah, that was not OK. Hell, Ikuni is going for King of Not OK with this series. Though I can't deny he's doing it to great effect.

Spoiler:

(Yurizono bringing the sexy back was totally OK, though. :p)

But, yes, I too got the feeling that the pieces for the symbolism puzzle are coming together these last episodes, even though it all looked so random at the beginning.
It's a shame that it's almost ending, but on the other paw, I think the pacing was actually well done, considering the sense of intensity through most of it, and I'm not sure if being twice as long would work as fine.

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

Yurizono best worst bear <3

Yeah...I really wish this series WERE longer, but I think Ikuhara did masterfully with the 12 episodes he had.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Oh, surely. If there's anyone who can fit a story of this depth into 12 episodes, it's Ikuhara.

Now that I think of it, I'm more impressed that he was able to pull off a coherent puzzle with such constraints without making it predictable*.

*

Spoiler:

Though I totally called yuri____ names = bear forever ago and thus Yuriika being a bear was not a surprise to me, though her story was still pretty interesting.

What gets me the most is how well he can create and build surreal worlds and still make comprehensible, real-life metaphors.

[commandercool]

Ending:

Spoiler:

Wow, that was pretty much perfect. There wasn't a thing in this show I take exception to. Show of the year so far.

I'm looking forward to hearing the explanations for all of the little stray bits of symbolism, but the show totally stands on its own without further analysis. It makes sense and is a complete story and everything.

And I don't mind saying that I teared up a little in the last five minutes there in a room full of adult men.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Just finished it. I have been sobbing tears of happiness.

The ending was so bittersweet but it is exactly what I like out of endings.

Spoiler:

AND LULU WAS TELLING A STORY THE WHOLE TIME SHE'S NOT FOR REAL DEAD I AM SO HAPPY

HER LITTLE BROTHER WAS STILL ALIVE

HE SHARED HIS PROMISE KISS WITH HER AND SHE ACCEPTED IT IT WAS SO SWEET

Spoiler:

Also I spent all of the series feeling kind of irritated with Ginko because it was obvious that she was meant to be Kureha's lover, but how dare you push yourself onto someone when their lover was just murdered? But apparently, that was part of Sumika's-- part of Kumalia's-- intent to begin with. "The person in front of you is your new friend" was her reuniting Ginko with Kureha and aaaaaaaargh ;____;

Good show. Very good ending. I'm sorry I doubted you, Ikuhara.

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

ALSO I FRIGGEN CALLED SUMIKA NOT BEING DEAD FOR KEEPS >=[. ALSO FROM LIKE EPISODE 3 I KNEW KUREHA WAS GONNA BECOME A BEAR

[commandercool]

Spoiler:

ALSO I FRIGGEN CALLED SUMIKA NOT BEING DEAD FOR KEEPS >=[. ALSO FROM LIKE EPISODE 3 I KNEW KUREHA WAS GONNA BECOME A BEAR

Spoiler:

But Sumika is still dead for keeps, isn't she? Do you think the intent was that she literally was Kumalia the whole time and she was just a god going to school (or a fragment of a god I guess)? Maybe that was the intent, but I figured Kumalia just appeared as Sumika symbolically, and they're not actually the same person.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Spoiler:

I suppose this is one of the parts where you shake your fist at Ikuhara because you don't know whether to take something as symbolic of something else or taking it at face value.

I'm going to take it at face value, I think.  Here's why:

So many of the story's most important moments happen at the Door of Friendship-- that is to say, what we find out to be the door between the world of humans and bears. This is especially where most of Sumika's most significant moments take place-- constantly saying she won't give up on love and giving Kureha her birthday card early there. We later find out that Sumika being targeted by the Invisible Storm was the reason for her doing that, because she didn't want Kureha getting hurt by it. It's just too suspicious to be a coincidence-- I don't think Sumika would have given Kureha that letter early had she not been aware that she was going to be eaten by Yurizono. And Sumika was completely aware of Ginko's presence as well-- so her method was, though confusing, to bring her and Kureha back together while taking herself out of the picture. It all seems really convoluted and cruel of her if this is true, though-- but from the way things sounded, Kumalia was not the most benevolent of goddesses either. It's more likely that it was a test for Kureha, to see if she would truly not give up on love-- especially since she stubbornly believed in love even after she relinquished it in the Severance Court so Ginko would be transformed into a human, with the addition that she'll have a chance to reunite with Ginko later on-- and it was Kumalia, who gets the final word in human/bear relations, who provided that chance through Sumika. Now, whether Sumika was an actual person or just an extension of Kumalia is something I do not know, but it does seem kind of like she was a Christ figure in a sense-- sent to die to bring change and deliverance from a cruel world.

Thus, I'm fine with seeing Sumika as someone who was actually Kumalia all along.

Does that make sense, or am I missing something here?

[commandercool]

Spoiler:

Does that make sense, or am I missing something here?

I don't know. You probably know more than me, I think I gotta re-watch it before I can comment on much. All I know is I was not given that impression, I can't refute anything specific. Maybe that was the intent, but if it was it went over my head and seems slightly strange to me.

Spoiler:

So these are the things the people I watched with and I are still confused/unsure about. If anybody has any guesses or if internet figured them out already and we just didn't hear about it (or, just as likely, if we just forgot something that should have answered the questions within the show), please do share:

-If Tsubaki's wish was for Ginko to become human, what did Ginko wish for? Did she ironically wish for the same thing? Did she actually make a wish at all?

-What was the function, either mechanical or symbolic, of the half-human, half-bear forms? Why do people in Bear World sometimes appear as full bears (Ginko's backstory) and sometimes appear as half-human (Lulu's backstory)?

[UncertainJakutten]

Spoiler:

Yeah, I'm taking Sumika as literally Kumalia, acting as a guide on Kureha's journey. Though, Matsy's interpretation as tester is actually way better, given the court bears are her fragments and go into her, so I think I like that more.

I admit, I was really really confused about what happened with Ginko's wish, and am tentatively assuming that, yes, she wished to be human too, since it was "better", but kind of basically internalized misursany.

I have absolutely no idea on the bear/human/hybrid forms though. I mean, I guess my best guess is the hybrid form is a metaphor for self actualization maybe? Idk. Kurehabear is the cutest though and I want 20.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Spoiler:

Yeah, I'm taking Sumika as literally Kumalia, acting as a guide on Kureha's journey. Though, Matsy's interpretation as tester is actually way better, given the court bears are her fragments and go into her, so I think I like that more.

I admit, I was really really confused about what happened with Ginko's wish, and am tentatively assuming that, yes, she wished to be human too, since it was "better", but kind of basically internalized misursany.

I have absolutely no idea on the bear/human/hybrid forms though. I mean, I guess my best guess is the hybrid form is a metaphor for self actualization maybe? Idk. Kurehabear is the cutest though and I want 20.

Spoiler:

While 'internalized misursany' is a phrase that I am profusely giggling at, I don't think it was just that. Even though Ginko was a criminal-bear who has grown disillusioned to the bear world, I think a lot of the reason why she chose to wish to become a human was so she could seek a more peaceful life with Kureha. After all, the Invisible Storm bullies won't hurt her OR Kureha if they don't know she's a bear, right?

I feel a lot of the this boils down to a Gift of the Magi reference-- in fact, a lot of the Severance Court's modus operandi revolves around that. To have your wish approved, you must show that you truly desire it by giving up what is most important to you. At first, Ginko's wish revolved around giving up her love for Kureha so she could become a human. However, it's later seen that the one making the wish was actually Kureha, who was making her wish through naivety and desperation, so sure that everything would work out her way even if she gives up what is most important to her. The Court bears accuse her of pride, and while young Kureha doesn't understand this, she later atones for it by giving up her humanity to become a bear so she can be with Ginko outside of the cruel human world, safe from the Invisible Storm.

I think this is also why the artists chose to make both Ginko and Kureha humanoid bears at the end of the series, since they both gave up their bearmanity and humanity respectfully to reach the other. And in doing this, they become more than merely human or bear, but the combination of both. Or something like that, I guess. That's how I'm seeing it-- it's representative of how they've transcended beyond the flawed worlds they both come from and have departed them-- they neither live in the world of bears nor the world of humans, but somewhere in between, within the Door of Friendship.

[WARNING: UTENA AND PENGUINDRUM SPOILERS AHEAD]

Spoiler:

I am reminded of this post here. In all three of Ikuhara's major productions, the main characters are freed from flawed and broken systems, even if the flawed and broken systems still remain regardless. In Utena Akio is made out to be a fool; a stubborn prince who refuses to leave his coffin and is trapped there by his own selfishness, power complex, and desire to control others. Meanwhile, the students, especially Utena and Anthy, break out of the system. In Penguindrum, Shouma and Kanba give up their humanity to change fate for Himari's sake. Sanetoshi swears he'll be back the next time the train comes back, but Momoka mocks him and walks away. He's not made to look a fool as much as Akio is, but instead he's defanged. Himari will live a safe and happy life, free from the punishment of fate. Ringo is no longer bound by her desire to make Momoka live on through fulfilling the destiny diary, and she can also live a peaceful life. Both have become friends with one another. The system of fate and punishment remains, but it is powerless when the realization is made that fate can be changed.

In Yurikuma, it's a bit less sweet of an ending. Ginko and Kureha escape the Invisible Storm by departing from both worlds to live happily elsewhere, free and safe. However, the Invisible Storm still remains, with its ferocity and zeal fully intact. But it is also shown that Ginko and Kureha relinquishing their existence within that reality had an impact, however small. During the Exclusion Ceremony or whatever it's called, a spotlight is shown on one girl in the crowd, who cannot bring herself to vote. She walks right out of there to the Door of Friendship, where a lonely and abandoned Robo-Konomi is sobbing. She picks her up and embraces her. You can see this as the potential for the vicious cycle of the system of the Invisible Storm to continue, but obviously the girl is aware of that. She walked out of the system for that reason, after all! So I am choosing to see that even if the impact is small, the potential to dismantle the system still exists, even if it's through one person at a time. She'll inevitably be the next "evil" target, but maybe they'll both end up where Ginko and Kureha are in the end. Who knows?

[UTENA AND PENGUINDRUM SPOILERS END]

Spoiler:

One thing I'm really curious about is why the artistic direction of the OP and Severance Court approvals are so very sexualized, when in context it makes very little sense in the plot, which is on the whole not particularly sexually-driven. Sure, there's a little fanservice here and there with bath scenes and the "yeah this is kinda worrisome" scenes with Yuriika and... Akae, was it? But those are minor in comparison to the OP and Yuri Approved scenes. I have a few thoughts on it, but in the end they all boil down to 'yeah this is artistic liberty but it's got nothing to do with the plot'.

One possibility: I think we discussed this earlier at some point, but I think the possibility exists that the blatant sexuality in those scenes are, for lack of a better word, bait. It's there to draw the fanservice-crazed anime fans (especially the straight male demographic that fetishizes lesbians) in and then demolish their expectations for an ecchi series. Kind of like, making that particular demographic look like a fool for using them as fetish fuel as they disregard the fact that their relationship is for their pleasure, not the viewer's. Or something like that, I dunno.

Second possibility: Female sexuality-- especially lesbian sexuality, is often seen as taboo and mired with concepts of ~*~purity~*~ and anything explicit is considered dirty and inappropriate. I feel that there is some intent here pointing toward normalizing it, making it as mundane and inoffensive as sex between a male and a female. Removing the stigma, you know? The sooner such things are normalized, the sooner people will be accepting of it. (I mean, even in countless yuri manga it's basically a trope for at least one girl to be reluctant, usually saying something like "B-but we can't do this! We're both girls!", like even in lesbian-driven narratives, it's still present.)

Third possibility: Ikuhara likes having a little nudity in his shows for some symbolic reason or another. Morishima is a yuri mangaka, and she likes drawing naked girls. Artistic preference and artistic liberty, yo.

Just a thought. I'm curious to see what you all think.