Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87

[Leon゠Helsing]

The thing about Twilight Frontier is, their site had for many years blocked the Chinese IP address band with a 403 Forbidden message. Their site used to be still accessible in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

However, this time they've switched their blocking policy. Now the entirety of China, Taiwan and Hong Kong included, cannot access their site. Judging from your information, they've also blocked Southeast Asia?

So why are they blocking these particular countries in the first place? Also, I'm in Indonesia and I can't seem to connect to their site too.

[Razzi Zadhna]

So why are they blocking these particular countries in the first place? Also, I'm in Indonesia and I can't seem to connect to their site too.

Good 'ol Japanese racism and xenophobia, of course! What else?

[FearNagae]

I can connect to tasofro normally from Indonesia. Perhaps their site was down due to traffic the moment you tried.

 Anyway... I can't wait.  :3 I hope they fixed what everyone hated from 13.5.

[game2011]

You are the first one to report this here. Where are you physically located?

Thailand, but their sites worked for me in the past.

And as expected, someone is already screaming "Touhou is dead" because of this game already.

[Aba Matindesu!]

What's this ado about Reimu having gaps? Are there any urban legends linked to that?

[SirSlarty]

I'm terrible at fighting-style games (don't understand them at all) therefore I don't really care about this new game unless it delves into more backstory of characters or introduces a new one.

Spoiler:

Keine, Kosuzu and Kasen

as playable characters please.

[Colticide]

Spoiler:

Keine

Totally agree! She seems she would be a great fit!

[game2011]

One thing to look forward to in fighting games is that they showcase the girls' fighting styles in "clearer" ways, because in the shooting games, pretty much everything looks like energy projectiles, which doesn't really help in visualizing what exactly they're doing or shooting.

[Fastest Thing Alive]

because in the shooting games, pretty much everything looks like energy projectiles, which doesn't really help in visualizing what exactly they're doing or shooting.

With a few exception, e.i Sakuya, Utsuho

I expect there'll be at least one or two characters other than Reimu and Marisa coming back from HM. I'm hoping for Koishi, though if the card have changed in such a way as to remove the 8 customizable slots then that might make it a bit harder.

I'm wondering, if the balls under the timer are something more like "who believes your rumors more than your opponents"?

[game2011]

With a few exception, e.i Sakuya, Utsuho

Utsuho shoots energy balls, or balls of fire, so it's basically the same thing.

[SacredWind]

I saw "Touhou 14.5" and expected a nice christmas present. Instead I learn it's a sequel to the crapfest that was HM.... So disappointed... sooooo disappointed.... Sigh... -_- Thanks for nothing, Tasofro. Way to get my hopes up. Merry fucking christmas to you too...

Well... I hope someone enjoys it , at least. I know I won't. What's so complicated about this? Air-based fighters are terrible games. Ugh! No amount of "hur de hur hur spellcard system" or "magic fire thingie at the bottom of the screen" mechanics can change that. You can cover a turd in hot fudge and sprinkle marshmallows all over it but that's still a steaming pile of shit under all that interesting stuff - nobody's going to want to eat that!!

Fuck you Tasofro. From the depths of my heart. Fuck you hard.

[Leon゠Helsing]

This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V
Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance? 'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?

[SacredWind]

This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V

I like the artwork. There's that, at least.

Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance?

Ok. This is probably going to come as a shock to you, but I think it needs to be said. Ready? Here goes...

ZUN is not god. The entire world is not going to share his opinion. He said the same thing about HM and it still turned out being a terrible, terrible smear on an otherwise great series of games. Of COURSE he's going to support this - Touhou is his franchise and he has nothing to gain by calling an official game "terrible".

'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?

So that's how things work around here? Shower every single game that comes out with positivity and love or be silenced? What is this, North Korea? -_- HM was CRAP of the highest caliber and it needs to be said. A horrible, horrible waste. That I actually imported and wasted my money on, unlike (let's be honest here people) the majority of people on this side of the world. All I ever hear about it are endorsements from apologists - nobody in their right mind liked it and nobody in their right mind should anyway.

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...

[Aya Reiko]

It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.

And the AI really sucked in that game.  I hope they improve that this go around.

For 14.5, I also really hope they re-think story mode.  The quasi-arcade style they've been using for years is old and stale.  Perhaps Tasofro should borrow something from either original Melty Blood's playbook (branching paths based on player choices and/or fight results) or mimic Netherrealm's story mode system (a singular longer story with character-focused chapters).

[Romantique Tp]

This coming from the guy with a HM avatar. :V
Look do I have to point to ZUN's quote again? Can't we just have faith in ZUN's assurance? 'Cause I'm getting real tired of all this negativity. Do I have to ask for a mod to clean up all the shitposting?

Negative opinions aren't shitposts. Sure people are overreacting a bit, but HM was pretty widely disliked so it's to be expected people will be disappointed to hear that they're making a sequel to it.

ZUN is also probably no fighting game specialist. Some games are fun to those who don't play games of that genre very often, but fail to entertain those who are more experienced. Nobody can really judge ULiL until they get to play it, but there's a good chance it will be one of these games.

I'm hoping they'll make this fun for everyone, not just for those who rarely play fighters, but like I said before I'm keeping my expectations low.

[Spotty Len]

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...

Aren't you taking this a little bit too far? I thought it was a joke post at first.

[Leon゠Helsing]

Negative opinions aren't shitposts. Sure people are overreacting a bit, but HM was pretty widely disliked so it's to be expected people will be disappointed to hear that they're making a sequel to it.

ZUN is also probably no fighting game specialist. Some games are fun to those who don't play games of that genre very often, but fail to entertain those who are more experienced. Nobody can really judge ULiL until they get to play it, but there's a good chance it will be one of these games.

I'm hoping they'll make this fun for everyone, not just for those who rarely play fighters, but like I said before I'm keeping my expectations low.

Really, it's the overreactions I'm getting tired of. Sure, the flight-based gameplay doesn't exactly facilitate high-low mixups, but I still appreciate the fact that they're trying something new. It just needs a fair bit of polish.
Also, I like Guilty Gear, I like BlazBlue, I like KoF, and also a fair bit of other quality fighting games. I also like HM. Am I insane? No. If I were, I'd be bottling it all up until I go nuclear here. There.

[FearNagae]

Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.

Stop with the shitpost- you know nothing about 14.5, it's not an expansion. It's probably as different as SWR is to IaMP.

[Lightseeker]

Fuck you Tasofro. From the depths of my heart. Fuck you hard.

Fuck this. It's christmas. I don't need this kind of disappointment. I have a family to be with. -_- Merry christmas to everyone, try not to let this kick in the balls by Tasofro bring you all down. Be with your loved ones - that's what matters...

Wow, aren't you taking this a little too personal? A game announcement supposedly ruins your Christmas? Seriously?

Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.

Stop with the shitpost- you know nothing about 14.5, it's not an expansion. It's probably as different as SWR is to IaMP.

Care to elaborate on the actual reason?

[Tengukami]

Yeah, there's a world of difference between legit criticism that actually makes points supported by an argument, and the kind of temper tantrum fuck-you-laden cries of entitlement from people who didn't get exactly what they wanted. And that's leaving aside how many of these folks weren't about to give ZUN their money anyway.

Make cogent points of criticism or stop bleating about your precious expectations that "ruined Christmas". You can do that on /jp/.

[game2011]

I sense this thread eventually getting locked.

[Kilgamayan]

I sense nothing of the sort. We're not going to lock something as major as a game-announcement thread on account of a few people arguing.

If anyone behaves in a mod-actionable fashion, they will be dealt with on an individual basis.

[FearNagae]

Care to elaborate on the actual reason?

After questioning several players who played other fighters (IaMP/Soku/BB/SG/others), there's a lot of opinions as to why the game is disliked, but these are probably the majority of them:
- Comeback mechanics which rewards weaker players (spell bar should be increasing when you do something, not when you get hit by something- is what people wanted)
- Some of the mechanics are annoying (whiff cancels, spell declare duration, popularity, time, etc)
- Game turns into endurance contest (it's ridiculously difficult to damage anyone decent, this might be true for IaMP as well but IaMP doesn't have the rest of the problems)
- Game is rather slow
- Game is very limited
- Skill ceiling too short

Air only fights can lead to any mechanic if so wished, it's just that 13.5 did it bad. Now, I agree 13.5 was a failure but 14.5 is clearly not 13.5.
(We should also remember that some people doesn't even know why they dislike a game, they just dislike it and points wrong reasons like saying "air only fights making it kusoge".)

[Starxsword]

I'm interested in seeing how this will go. I enjoyed HM for what it was worth (shit AI and popularity systems could have been way better), so hopefully Tasofro will see what they fucked up on and make something new. Given it's a sequel there will most likely be a different system in play over the popularity system, and hopefully it will go over better.

Well, let's hope the AI isn't so horrible. Not asking for Street Fighter level AI, but at least better than what was in Hopeless Masquerade.

@Urban Legend in Limbo Spell Card: I am guessing it is how quickly you can charge it. So Fantasy Seal only takes 800 energy to be useable and Master Spark takes 1500 energy to be usable. Kind of like in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, where you need X cards to activate the spell.
I wonder if the flames are the energy meter for special move consumption?
Orbs on top may be the Urban unique mechanic?

[Gpop]

Lol, I doubt people who bashed 13.5 actually understand why said game has dead community.

Don't worry. SWR had the exact same reaction when it first came out from the initial IaMP fanbase. Last I remember they also bashed soku when it was also announced.

And the AI really sucked in that game.  I hope they improve that this go around.

Tbh AI sucked in every Tasofro fighter. HM was one of the worst I've seen though.

- Comeback mechanics which rewards weaker players (spell bar should be increasing when you do something, not when you get hit by something- is what people wanted)

Unfortunately this is a trend in recent fighting games overall to help out newer players and also still give the losing players a chance. If anything, it's like Ultras in Street Fighter IV, as both requires you to take damage to build your Ultra/SpellCard meter. At least it isn't X-factor :V

- Some of the mechanics are annoying (whiff cancels, spell declare duration, popularity, time, etc)

I can agree with people disagreeing with the popularity thing. It's pretty annoying overall, but I liked that it wasn't RNG-based at least :V The timer is perfectly fine especially in high level, as time-outs don't happen that often, but it's the same as every other fighter minus Mahvel :V

[ToyoRai]

Story mode was brought up, and in my opinion, I think they should keep individual character stories. Problem with one single story mode is that some characters can easily either get too much attention or too little attention. Branching paths might work, but only if they aren't just stupid to get.

[Romantique Tp]

 

Really, it's the overreactions I'm getting tired of. Sure, the flight-based gameplay doesn't exactly facilitate high-low mixups, but I still appreciate the fact that they're trying something new. It just needs a fair bit of polish.
Also, I like Guilty Gear, I like BlazBlue, I like KoF, and also a fair bit of other quality fighting games. I also like HM. Am I insane? No. If I were, I'd be bottling it all up until I go nuclear here. There.

These games are pretty popular even among serious players, and also fairly easy to get into (except GG if your friends know how to play heh). It would be weird if you didn't like any of them even a tiny bit. :V

I don't know how well you play, how often you practice or if you play against good players, in any case you're entitled to have your own opinion, but one or a few unpopular opinions wont change what the majority thinks. Thinking a bit differently about something doesn't mean you're crazy. Everyone has their own unpopular opinions and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Don't worry. SWR had the exact same reaction when it first came out from the initial IaMP fanbase. Last I remember they also bashed soku when it was also announced.

Eh, the general reaction to SWR from IaMP players has always been negative, and indeed some people didn't even bother trying it, but a good portion of the IaMP playerbase did give SWR a fair chance and some even played it for a few months before dropping it.

[Leon゠Helsing]

Unfortunately this is a trend in recent fighting games overall to help out newer players and also still give the losing players a chance. If anything, it's like Ultras in Street Fighter IV, as both requires you to take damage to build your Ultra/SpellCard meter. At least it isn't X-factor :V

Personally, I think comeback mechanics are okay as long as they don't hold the losing player's hand too firmly to the point of rewarding the player for "sucking". GGXrd's Hell Fire mode is probably a good example as it boosts your Overdrive damage but puts you at the risk of getting combo'd into an Instant Kill if the opponent is on match point. So essentially it gives you a chance to even the playing field, but it also has a risk factor attached to it.

I don't know how well you play, how often you practice or if you play against good players...

If I were to give you an idea...
- Actual pros
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-
-
-
-
-
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...and so on...
-
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- me
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- lolfilthycasul

Also I haven't been getting that much of a chance to practice because of blasted Win8.1 having issues with HM. One of these days I'm gonna move to a PC with Win7 after I get out of my current economical predicament.

[FearNagae]

Personally, I don't really mind comeback mechanics and X-factors (I'd even say mixups are pretty much semi-RNG), but lack of character I really want to play and materials to learn really hurt my interest in HM.

The timer is perfectly fine especially in high level, as time-outs don't happen that often

It happens at least as often as in lower level play, probably more

Also, despite IaMP players' hate over Soku, I'm sure a lot of them plays it and Soku is still alive and kicking, unlike *cough* a certain hopeless game *cough*.

[Phasm]

Character Speculation:
 
All of HM characters
Satori, Orin and Utsuho( since Koishi is in HM )
Yukari
Yuyuko and Youmu ( since they are ghosts )
Flandre and Nue need to appear in more games
Mokou and Kaguya, Eirin and Reisen ( since they were planned for UNL )
Seija
Shinmyoumaru Sakuna
The Moriya Crew

I hope it has lots of characters