Topic: Touhou 14.5: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. is HM sequel, demo at Comiket 87  (Read 462338 times)

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cuc

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Touhou 14.5 has been properly revealed. It is another collaboration between Team Shanghai Alice and Twilight Frontier. A demo version of the game will be released at Twilight Frontier's booth シ-29a at Comiket 87 (Dec 29). The demo disc will cost 100 yen.




The game's title is: 東方深秘録 ~ Urban Legend in Limbo. It will be a sequel to 2013's Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade.

The main title is probably pronounced "Touhou Shinhiroku". It is a pun on 神秘 "mysterious; occult", with the kanji 深 "deep" replacing the kanji 神 "divine; mystical", leaving the kanji 秘 "secret; hidden". Thus the title can be understood as "Oriental Record of Deep Mysteries" or "Oriental Record of Deep Secrets".

Official site:
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou145/index.html
(Unfortunately, due to some sort of IP blocking mechanism, you may need to access the site via a proxy if you are from China, Korea or Southeast Asia.)

Highlights of system requirements are:
- A multicore CPU 2GHz or above;
- A display device supporting the 1280x720 resolution;
- 200MB of hard drive space.

UPDATE 1:
A screenshot from the official blog shows a fight in front of Kourindou:

The building to the left was not there in Kourindou's previous appearances. Has Rinnosuke gotten rich or something?

The jewels under the time countdown should be the "Occult Balls" mentioned in the Digi Game Expo flyer. Some say the time clock somewhat resembles the Dragon Radar, in keeping with the Dragon Ball reference.

The wooden strips shooting out of the gap are sotoba, Japanese grave markers. Wasn't this used to be Yukari's attack in SWR?

The demo version will feature some characters and the beginning of the Story Mode.

UPDATE 2:
Research: some sources of Rinnosuke's posters.
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3485574995

UDPATE 3: Release day
The poster:


The disc:


UPDATE 4:
Controls:
Z - Melee; X - Shoot; C - Special; A - Spell; S - Flight.


Movement system comparison by Ninniku, an artist and top-ranking Suwako player, with translation by monhan:
Read from Left to Right

HM:

You can move upward and downward while dashing
The dash is the same, whether you're in the upper, middle, or lower part
You can maintain the same latitude while dashing.
You can still "jump" up and down even if you're in the upper or lower part

ULiL:

You cannot move upward and downward while dashing, instead pressing them will make you jump
The dash will be different depending on your latitude. You also cannot jump unless you're in the middle
Dashing will force you towards the middle. And since you cannot jump, it can't be braked(you can't stop the fall to the middle line).
Unless you use the flight button, jumping in the upper or lower part is not possible. But since the dash is not limited, you can make a zig-zag movement.


New game systems:
Each character has an Occult Special, released when possessing at least one Occult Ball by holding Special button.

There is a new "Fast-talk Declaration" system, which costs one Spell Gauge to interrupt the current action and declare your spell card, by pressing Spell button rapidly twice.

Kai Last Word: The "kai" here can be translated as "strange", "weird", "bizarre", "abnormal", etc.

Mystery Spot: similar to weather, these are the effects caused by the Occult Ball.
1. The Pyramids: Both side's Occult Specials are at maximum power.
2. Stonehenge: The playfield becomes gradually narrower.
3. Babel Tower: When touching the Occult Ball, the Ball can be used to attack the opponent
4. Yomotsu Hirasaka: Reduces stamina the closer one is to the stage center; all damage incurred during the effect period disappears when it ends
5. Nazca Ground Painting: Each time one touches the Occult Ball, one's stamina and Spell Gauge will be restored.
6. Hell Valley [a volcanic scenic spot in Hokkaido]: Turns the bottom of the screen into a damage zone; characters are harder to see.
7. Lunar Capital: Reduces bullet speed (some are not affected)

Reimu
神秘!結界の巫女
Mystery! The Shrine Maiden of Kekkai (Boundaries)

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Gap Woman"
Gap woman is an urban legend already in existence in Edo era, which Yukari is partially based on, about a woman in red watching people through a gap.

Occult Special: "Gap of the Great Hakurei Boundary"

Kai Last Word: *There's a shrine maiden in the gap!*


Marisa
恐怖!学校の魔法使い
Horror! The School Magician

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Seven Mysteries of the School"

Occult Special: True Horrors of the School (rotates through different objects)

Kai Last Word: *So great! Ms. Hanako of the Toilet!*


Kasen
脅威!願いを訊く仙人
Menance! The Hermit Who Listens to Wishes

Name of Occult Phenomenon: "Monkey's Paw"

4 or 6 + Special: 彭祖 Houso
Houso is Kasen's tiger, seen in WaHH, named after Peng Zu, a famous figure known for having lived 800 years in Chinese traditions.

8 + Special: 竿打 Kanda
Kanda is one of Kasen's eagles seen in WaHH. The name means "beaten by a bamboo stick", as he is named after a hermit in Japanese legend who flew too low and got beaten by children with a bamboo stick.

2 + Special: 務光 Mukou
Mukou is Kasen's Raijuu (thunder beast), adopted in WaHH. Named after Wuguang, an ancient sage mentioned in Zhuang Zi, who would rather drown himself than accept the throne of China.

As you can see, Kasen's pets are all named after figures in Taoist hermit lore.

Occult Special: "Inescapable Monkey's Paw" (keep pressing the button to extend the arm, can be controlled with up and down buttons)

Spell Card: Dragon Sign "Dragon's Growl"

Kai Last Word: *Monkey's Paw! Crush the enemy!*
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 11:27:22 am by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

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Excuse me whilst I update the ULiL page @ the wiki~~
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cuc

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Translation of the story:

Quote
Strange rumors are circulating the Human Village.

 "A dog with a human's face was rummaging the compost pile."
"Somebody saw an old woman selling humans' feet."

These pointless rumors have exploded, and driven the children into fear.
Unlike the youkai whose natural purpose is to attack humans, these rumors are both unsettling and impossible to discern the truths underneath.
Since there were no real victims, the adults have come to think of them as merely children's silly talks.

Of course, the girls are not afraid.
They know these to be the outside world's "urban legends" (made-up stories).

Urban legends have an interesting property.
As the circulating rumors change, the anomalies will change correspondingly.

Reimu and company have assumed the rumors that fit them, and treat the anomalies as their playthings.
As long as one can control the rumors without being afraid, the manifested anomalies can be rendered harmless.
More than that, they can be turned into powers of one's own.
The girls thought of controlling the urban legends by themselves as a necessary measure for keeping people from harm.

This had indeed been true. Until one night...

According to internet spoilers, the backstory to this game will be told in this month's Touhou Ibarakasen ~ Wild and Horned Hermit. Chapter 26.

Say hello to Mr. Manfaced Dog! I'd never thought the sad face of a middle manager going through midlife crisis would appear in Gensokyo.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 10:14:18 am by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

cuc

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And here's the speculation: Twilight Frontier's homepage image now shows the logo over Hakurei Shrine. This is the exactly same model as the one used in Hopeless Masquerade.

They are releasing a demo version first, indicating this to be a large-scale project, rather than say, a sidescroller. They've never sold demo discs separately for their sidescrollers.

In summary, this game will probably be a new fighting game, using the engine of assets of Hopeless Masquerade. The gameplay however will differ significantly from the relative failure of HM. To what degree remains to be seen.
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

ToyoRai

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Every one is getting involved in this. Twilight Frontier, the girl behind Forbidden Scrollery for the promotional poster, WaHH having the backstory, all kinds of stuff.

cuc

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Our diligent Touhou news sources in Japan have been listening to D.N.A.'s Nae Radio stream, which is still ongoing at the moment.

The stream confirmed one thing:

ULiL will be a sequel to HM, rather than an expansion pack.

According to D.N.A., ZUN said this about the game: "it has become a very good game".
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter
Pretty soon for another fighting game, don't you think?  Anyway, can't wait to see pics soon!

Character speculation, anyone?  Sekibanki, plz!

EDIT: I just realized...  Having various characters in the series playable makes for an ideal 20th anniversary game!
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 12:41:36 pm by game2011 »
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Sweet =)

ULiL will be a sequel to HM, rather than an expansion pack.
Well..... so long as it doesn't play like HM did, I guess that's cool....... Otherwise, meh, I'll just wait for Touhou 15......

I guess we will know more soon so Im not going to speculate too much. Who knows it could turn out really good.

Gpop

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Well this is a very interesting. Being a sequel rather than an expansion, will this mean an entirely new cast of characters or an entirely new story but a lot of returning characters from HM coming back? I can't imagine Tasofro making an entirely new game and entire cast of characters after all the effort they put in the last one and in such a short time span. (the last big game, SWR, came out in 2008, with it's expansion, Hisoutensoku, coming out a year later).

I'd rather it'd be a reworked HM game, because HM was actually pretty good in a competitive sense (no RNG bullshit like soku/SWR had) but the biggest problem was lack of deep mix ups and such. The flying gameplay was good, but unfortunately not many people were willing to get used to a new gameplay style for fighters.
Flying fighting games aren't new, mind you, but they are rare.
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Gpop

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In all honesty, because it's a sequel rather than an expansion, instead of being like the transition from SWR to Soku, it'd be more like IaMP to SWR. Similar looks, but different game overall (in terms of main mechanics). I expect it to be just like that. Also expect the HM cast to return, considering the short time span.

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I was hoping this would be a shmup by ZUN, but oh well. There's hope this will be good, but after 3 meh fighters I wouldn't hold my breath.

Spotty Len

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I'd rather it'd be a reworked HM game, because HM was actually pretty good in a competitive sense (no RNG bullshit like soku/SWR had) but the biggest problem was lack of deep mix ups and such. The flying gameplay was good, but unfortunately not many people were willing to get used to a new gameplay style for fighters.
I can relate, I had a hard time learning how to play that thing, and even when I did, I had nearly nobody to play with because only one or two of my friends were somewhat interested but quickly gave up considering you have to learn everything from scratch.

It's kinda nice to see another effort though, I certainly cannot say there is no hype in me.
please dont forget meiling again tasofro >_>

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This is depressing.

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You've got to be fucking kidding me. This is the most depressing piece of news I've heard all day. And this wasn't a good year.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 03:03:12 pm by Sakurei »
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What's with all the sad faces?
HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?

Gpop

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HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?
So it was basically like soku then :V
HM sucked like Sanae at a truckstop?
Because this game will totally have the same gameplay as HM. 

Right, we live in a world where people jump to conclusions often...
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Gpop

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It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.
Because this game will totally have the same gameplay as HM. 
Don't get me wrong, Im not saying it will. Im saying if it does, then this will be disappointing. =) It's way too soon to speculate right now -- it just seems like the likeliest of scenarios, that's all.

I wish theyd just go back to the earlier system (SWR/Soku), iron out the problems people had with it, and add more recent characters to the lineup, personally..... If the game turns out like that, Im totally stoked! But if it turns out like HM? Meh...... it would be disappointing to see another craptastic fighter from tasofro....

Well just have to wait and see. =)

Quote from: Gpop
It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.
Different is fine. When the changes work. To me, HM was just.... bad. =( Aerial combat, the short timer, the one-button-special-moves, the popularity system, etc. I just didn't find myself enjoying any of it. The only thing I felt it had going for it was being able to customize your moveset (soku could have used that instead of its oh-so-reliable card system/replacement moves....)

Spotty Len

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It's like I said, people bash the game because they can't get used to a fighting game that feels different from the traditional grounded fighters.

I disliked Soku because of the amount of RNG it had that just made it completely unhealthy for a competitive fighter.
I'm with you on this one. Once I had the controls in hand, I found a ton of combos (which I got mostly from you actually) to learn and I had a lot of fun. Like any fighter, basically.

Unless you fully know how to play a game, I don't think you're quite qualified to say it sucks.

Heck, I had people say Smash sucks because it's all different from anything else. Then they tried it.
Unless you fully know how to play a game, I don't think you're quite qualified to say it sucks.
Isn't it more a matter of enjoyability? "Suck" is subjective -- if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. No amount of "proving" them wrong or debating "why" their opinion is wrong will make any sense...... it still sucks to them.

Personally I gave HM several honest chances and it just..... never worked for me as something enjoyable. At all. No amount of telling me "you're not using your special moves right" or "no no, you don't get how the timer and popularity mechanics work, here, I'll explain it" will make the game more "enjoyable" for me.... (And yeah, I get how the mechanics work. Don't assume I don't just because I don't like the game. =) )
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 04:14:09 pm by Omegahugger »

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Different is fine. When the changes work. To me, HM was just.... bad. =( Aerial combat, the short timer, the one-button-special-moves, the popularity system, etc. I just didn't find myself enjoying any of it. The only thing I felt it had going for it was being able to customize your moveset (soku could have used that instead of its oh-so-reliable card system/replacement moves....)
Aerial combat is fine, it just takes time to get used to. The timer is just like any other fighter. In fact in a lot of high level play timeouts don't happen that frequently. And the one-button special moves is kinda eh, I'll agree, but that's because of how you can't do 236 motions anymore without a ground, so it's been changed to Smash-like controls, which makes sense. Popularity system works better, and isn't RNG-based. Again, it's another mechanic that takes time to get used to.

Although, since it's a new game, I'm assuming it'll have an entirely new mechanic. Most fighters have their "gimmick" mechanic to make it different from it's predecessor (ie. SF2 was basic, SF3 had the parry system, and SF4 had the Focus system). In the touhou fighter's case, IaMP had the simple spell card casting system, SWR/Soku had the weather system, and HM had the popularity system. Considering this is an entirely new game, popularity won't be a thing anymore since it'll have to be replaced with an entirely new system, as most new fighters do, so you won't have to worry about popularity wins anymore, I would guess.
Considering this is an entirely new game, popularity won't be a thing anymore since it'll have to be replaced with an entirely new system, as most new fighters do, so you won't have to worry about popularity wins anymore, I would guess.
To be honest this was one of the two things I disliked most about it (aerial combat being the other -- this isn't the first game like that Ive played and it's never, never been my thing.....). I really do look forward to what this next game will have, and there's just as much a chance of it being something great as anything really..... I suppose well just have to wait and see. =)

And now begins the long, impatient period of waiting for tasofro to release more details. =)

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I would wish for a slightly more lenient combo system because I suck at learning long combos (Blazblue is my hell), but eh, I can work with what we already have.

Isn't it more a matter of enjoyability? "Suck" is subjective -- if someone doesn't like something, they don't like it. No amount of "proving" them wrong or debating "why" their opinion is wrong will make any sense...... it still sucks to them.
Or you could just say you don't like it. I don't think declaring something sucks is nice to anybody who likes the thing.

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>lol its gonna suxxorz ballzorz
Apparently you guys missed ZUN's assurance. :V
According to D.N.A., ZUN said this about the game: "it has become a very good game".

Gpop

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I would wish for a slightly more lenient combo system because I suck at learning long combos (Blazblue is my hell), but eh, I can work with what we already have.
Personally, the combo system is lenient enough as it is. The combo difficulty depends on each characters though. For example, Koishi is probably the easiest in terms of learning combos, while Ichirin requires box dashing to connect damaging combos properly.

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Or you could just say you don't like it. I don't think declaring something sucks is nice to anybody who likes the thing.

This exactly. Personally I enjoyed HM a lot the cast was like a reboot of the fighting games (Which felt nice, because I was hoping for a game for this whole religious war thing), the aerial combat personally felt very good, felt very Touhou-ish, controls were nice and you could actually realize a character moveset very easily without complicated inputs (A friend of mine who hates complicated controls found this game very appealing)

I really didn't liked SWR/Soku (I even liked IaMP to an extent) and I was quite disappointed these were the only fighting games avaible, however I really dislike when people say "HM sucks" or stuff like "what a disappointment if it's like HM" I have to admit the popularity system could be a let down for most people but I really enjoyed the game so stop bashing it. You didn't like it? Okay, but really stop bashing.

On the topic of th14.5 btw I think if Tasofro said it's going to be a sequel rather than an expansion (Makes sense, the game is labeled as Th14.5, not 14.3 (heh) or 14.7) then they are probably making huge tweaks to the mechanics (If it's a fighter) because I'm sure they already know (Maybe in japan they didn't liked HM too, I don't know) that most people disliked the new mechanics, idk we don't really know much about this game.

But I hope that if it's a 20th anniversary game they add a lot of characters  ;)
 

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