Author Topic: The Worst Gensokyans  (Read 37806 times)

aListers

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2014, 06:21:29 PM »
Reimu has also had her soul read by Komachi and her brainwaves read by Reisen. They agree that Reimu is an innocent soul incapable of hating anyone, she's just kind of bipolar.

As for laziness... remember how people have said Reimu reminds them of a hermit? How the actual hermits mistook her for a Taoist? How when she dodges an attack she claims she stood still while it bent around her, and she throws her homing amulets in straight lines? That's wu wei - creating the most effective result by expending the least possible effort.

Can I just ask when these happened?
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2014, 06:30:24 PM »
Medicine bugs me because she's such a non-entity.
I think Rumia and Medicine are at the bottom of my list.

Medicine is like a proto-Kokoro in a way - she's a newly born youkai that knows nothing but hatred towards all humans and how poisons work, so she just poisons everyone that comes to her field. She's one of the few outright malicious youkai shown on screen. Well, she WAS one, she did make her first steps to mellowing out in her PoFV ending, and since I saw her as a cameo in a crowd in a recent manga chapter, she seems to integrate into society just fine.

Rumia embodies the fear of the dark and... is little more than a generic youkai with no purpose in life. Even though she has an article about her in BAiJR, it doesn't say anything other than that, so her "generic-ness" must be the whole joke about her. People usually like her either because of being intrigued by her mysterious hair amulet (see EX-Rumia), or because of her being the only youkai on screen that is outright stated to eat humans, with some taking it at face value (usually in more grimdark depictions) and some focusing on the fact she's usually not successful doing that (resulting in lighthearted quirky-kid-that-tries-to-bite-everyone depictions).

@Tengukami: It's OK, I know Sanae has reasons to act the way she does, and she IS a well-written character in her own right. I just don't like what she is, circumstances or not. Eccentric outsiders that don't know the way of the land have no place in affairs that concern its fate.

Tengukami

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2014, 06:37:26 PM »
@Tengukami: It's OK, I know Sanae has reasons to act the way she does, and she IS a well-written character in her own right. I just don't like what she is, circumstances or not. Eccentric outsiders that don't know the way of the land have no place in affairs that concern its fate.

And the youkai in me agrees! I just hold out hope that, in comparison to what we've seen discussed about Reimu, the chances are good she'll mellow out and find her balance somehow. But yes, I can totally see how she grates on peoples' nerves.

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2014, 06:47:52 PM »
My least favorite by far is Yukari for no other reason than that she is a smug, manipulative bitch. I could say the same for other characters (Yuyuko, Kanako though they have some kind of motive) but Yukari is the worst. Also, her power is just too convenient.

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2014, 07:17:47 PM »
I don't have character that I hate or even dislike. I thought I don't like Byakuren - I liked her. I thought I don't like Nitori - I liked her too. I just like everyone.

@Tengukami - oh, you don't like Koishi? That makes me sad, because she's one of my favourites, right next to Yukari. I can't argue with your arguments though, they're pretty solid. The reason I like her is not Satori though, I think that's because of "Koishi Komeiji Heart-Throbbing Adventure", where she is a "little" insane type that gone mad because of some sort of trauma. Even so, I like her carefree personality that ZUN gave her. And playing as her in HM was really nice :v
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Prime32

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2014, 08:14:21 PM »
Can I just ask when these happened?
  • Soul-reading: WaHH and SWR
  • Wave-reading: PoFV
  • Like a hermit: OSP (somewhere around the finale?)
  • Like a Taoist: TD (probably in the endings), plus the whole yin-yang thing she's had from the beginning
  • Dodging attacks by standing still: CoLA
  • Aiming attacks by closing her eyes or moving in a straight line: IN (spell card desciptions), GoM, CoLA(?)
SaBND also had the case of Reimu being so in-tune with nature that she crossed a river without realising it because fish rose up to form a bridge under her feet. Multiple occasions (PCB, OSP, FS) have shown her breaking extremely powerful barriers with a gesture, without realising that should be impossible.

From the way she describes them, Reimu's stronger spell cards seem to tap into an ebb and flow of the universe that normal people cannot perceive. Incidentally some of these spell cards were taught to her by Yukari, who also has a strong Taoist motif (and seems to follow Laozi's philosophy of "the best ruler is unseen, and makes his people think they did everything by themselves").
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 08:30:59 PM by Prime32 »

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2014, 08:43:14 PM »
I kind of dislike Sakuya and Reisen, not so much for their characters (although I don't think their characters are especially interesting, particularly compared to everyone around them in their games) as for their designs. They keep getting in the way whenever I have to explain Touhou to someone who doesn't know it. "Yes, it's Japanese and the cast is all women, but don't worry, it's not sexualized or fetishy at all... Except for the two characters in the weird fetish uniforms, one of which also has goddamn bunny ears. Oops."
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2014, 08:54:01 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only reason people like Cirno and Youmu because the fans just like to tease them. Other than that, I don't see much about what's so likable about them and their characters are far from my ideal type.

So, I don't have anyone I particularly dislike to begin with.
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2014, 08:54:18 PM »
Yukari domestically abuses Ran.

Yukari is worst.

That is all.  :colbert:

In all seriousness, I don't really see anything about Futo. She seems very out of her time, kind of stubborn and at times, a bit dumb. Her inability  to adapt to modern Gensokyo isn't helping her case either. The ye olde English/archaic Japanese doesn't do it for me either. Her following Miko is almost religious (heh), and at times as easy to manipulate as any other peon. In the end, her existence seems almost comical.

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2014, 09:01:59 PM »
Mm, I'm enjoying everyone's opinion here :)

In all seriousness, I don't really see anything about Futo. She seems very out of her time, kind of stubborn and at times, a bit dumb. Her inability  to adapt to modern Gensokyo isn't helping her case either. The ye olde English/archaic Japanese doesn't do it for me either. Her following Miko is almost religious (heh), and at times as easy to manipulate as any other peon. In the end, her existence seems almost comical.
IMO she's anything but dumb, being a Taoist and all, just painfully clueless about modernity. That aside, I pretty much agree with you.
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2014, 09:52:04 PM »
Rumia embodies the fear of the dark and... is little more than a generic youkai with no purpose in life. Even though she has an article about her in BAiJR, it doesn't say anything other than that, so her "generic-ness" must be the whole joke about her. People usually like her either because of being intrigued by her mysterious hair amulet (see EX-Rumia), or because of her being the only youkai on screen that is outright stated to eat humans.

It's difficult to tell when characters are joking about eating people or not but Hong Meiling probably eats people,  the vampires drink blood, the Prismrivers definitely eat people, Yukari almost certainly eats people... my impression is that there's an implicit threat of being eaten associated with most youkai and ghosts, actually.

Raikaria

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2014, 09:58:05 PM »
I... don't like Reimu. No. I can't STAND Reimu.

From a gameplay perspective, she's boring. She's usually the best shottype, but she's BORING. Always the same. Focus-Fire needles, homing unfocused. Few exceptions. Even in games such as SA, Reimu's shottypes are far less interesting than Marisa's [With the exception of Marisa C]. Marisa tends to use the same types of shots too but at least the rules seem to change every few games or she gets one really whacky one thrown in. Or her bombs are different. I get Marisa has Master Spark all the time too but the mechanics of that change too. Compare EoSD Spark to the 'can turn the spark' in some later games. Fantasy Seal is... Fantasy Seal.

I think the only games I play the Reimu shottype are MoF and TD. The other shottypes being far worse than hers in those games.

From a character perspective, she's also boring. She's the reluctant hero character. She's not exactly a likable character, unlike Marisa who's quirks make her funny.

And she's a borderline sue. She is literally undefeatable in the lore because LOLFANTASYHEAVEN and 'If you kill me you're all screwed'. She basically can't lose if she fights seriously.

Also unlike a certain other recurring character, she doesn't even get wardrobe updates.

===

I also can't stand Sukana. Someone said earlier that Sanae is easily swayed [Although in 12.3 she was willing to fight Suwako to do what was right.]. Sukana takes that to eleven. She doesn't even know the stories of her own race, or what the Miracle Mallet did, which again, is a relic tied to her race. And she didn't stop using it when she noticed all the side-effects, the costs of using it. And she followed a freaking Amanojaku; a race WHO ARE NOTORIOUS; MALICIOUS AND COMPULSIVE LIARS because she believed the lies she fed her. She's just a tool that Seija used. And she is completely irrelevant again now.

Sukana is basically a complete nitwit. Also the fact she was willing to screw all other youkai races, and humans, over just because of some stories and lies Seija told her doesn't exactly make her likable either.

Her design dosen't go with me either. When your biggest feature is the bowl you ride in...

===


In all seriousness, I don't really see anything about Futo. She seems very out of her time, kind of stubborn and at times, a bit dumb. Her inability  to adapt to modern Gensokyo isn't helping her case either. The ye olde English/archaic Japanese doesn't do it for me either. Her following Miko is almost religious (heh), and at times as easy to manipulate as any other peon. In the end, her existence seems almost comical.

I... actually like that about Futo. She represents the old times. She literally slept for over 1,000 years. Miko's a genius who reads minds desires so can probobly adapt quicker than someone steeped in tradition like Futo. Especially since Futo is from a noble clan, so is probobly very proud of her way of doing things.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 10:00:54 PM by Raikaria »


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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2014, 12:48:33 AM »
Yuuka: My most hated character in the series by far. As one of the PC98 returners, ZUN, despite her struggling to learn magic back in PC98, suddenly decided to shill her insane power in PMiSS, even stating that her flower magic is weak but her physical power is off the charts (which kinda doesn't strike me as enough of a prerequisite to be among Gensokyo's strongest, especially with her slow speed in PoFV, but whatever) - that's the small problem. The big problem is that he combined said newfound dominating power with one of the most unstable and untrustworthy personalities around - frankly, I cannot stand her haughty, antisocial, repulsive attitude and the ambiguosity of whether her threats are just trolling or a sign of her actually being ready to rip you to pieces if you look at her the wrong way (she's more dangerous and hostile than fucking Medicine and Flandre, if PMiSS is anything to go by). Her looks are the final nail in the coffin - the eye-searing red plaid clashes pretty badly with her green hair, and she actually looks like one of Gensokyo's oldest.

Sakuya: All hints considered, I cannot bring myself to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being a serial killer. Funny enough, most people seem to consider that one of her main appeals, but for me neither being a killer nor her unbeatable superpower nor her zero known backstory and reason for resulting allegiance with a vampire over fellow humans do the trick. What remains is mostly a boring, overly loyal and obedient servant of SDM denizens, a goal-oriented and sometimes cruel exterminator with little emotions to spare towards anyone else (with a joke cracked once in a while) and conflicting characterization (being "perfect and elegant" on one hand, being a clumsy airhead on the other). Likewise, her looks are among Gensokyo's most uninspired, being nothing more than a typical maid attire and grayed out hair tied into a painfully antiquated hairdo. She's basically a less well-made Youmu for me. And finally, the fandom. God, the fandom - no other character has it worse, be it pads, lolicon, Meiling/Sanae abuse or being a psychopath in general.

Cirno: Annoyance incarnate. She could be actually pretty cute if she didn't insist on picking a fight with everyone she meets on sheer ego and sense of superiority. The fact that she attempts to kill both frogs and her opponents because that is her idea of playing (and being immortal, she literally doesn't know better) is another pretty big thing for me. I just can't bring myself to sympathize with her when she gets her comeuppance, ever.

Nitori: Her suddenly turning out to be a massive jerk in HM dialogues. That is all.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 01:38:49 AM by Critz »

Tengukami

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2014, 01:06:03 AM »
Yukari domestically abuses Ran.

Yukari is worst.

That is all.  :colbert:
Pretty much this, too, is always something in the back of my mind where Yukari's concerned. She really is completely self-interested, and has no compunction with tableflipping people's lives just for larfs. What kind of person does this? And, best part of all, everyone's stuck with her, forever apparently. As a character it makes her interesting to watch in action, and you could argue she gives many Gensokyans a purpose in life. But on the other hand, so does Vladimir Putin, so seriously, Yukari is definitely among the worst.

What's interesting, but maybe to be expected, in this thread is how people are describing character traits that I agree with, but have a completely different emotional response to. Like Critz's take on Cirno. I agree that that's Cirno's behavior. I think it's what makes her endearing. But at the same time, stuff like Yukari's gleeful sociopathy is pretty indisputably terrible.

e:

Nitori: Her suddenly turning out to be a massive jerk in HM dialogues. That is all.

Quote
Reimu: We're in the middle of a battle for popularity. Joining up with a youkai racketeer like you would be suicide.
Nitori: That's some worthless popularity, if you can lose it just like that. If that's the best your religion can do, you should probably just give up.

I'm sorry, but this cracked me up.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 01:10:12 AM by Tengukami »

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2014, 02:33:33 AM »
Worst Gensokyans? But what if I hate the Sealing Club and the inhabitants of Lunar Capital?

I could find something negative about every single 2hu, provided I took the time and effort, which I'm not willing to invest. Even my most favorite characters (many of which appeared in this thread) have flaws or conducted deeds that would make me label them as "bad", just as even my least favorite characters have some qualities about them that make me sympathize with them. Now, Eiki would most likely slap me with her rod, but from my point of view there is no black or white,  just as there aren't any "worst Gensokyans".

That which makes them worst/best are the authors (ZUN or the rest of the creative fandom) and individual tastes. As time passes, I'm realizing that I gradually keep caring less about what the characters are like in canon (because, TBH, that's just a drop in the ocean) and more about their various fan interpretations, and finding the blend, which I"m the most comfortable with.

Prime32

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2014, 02:56:23 AM »
Nitori: Her suddenly turning out to be a massive jerk in HM dialogues. That is all.
Nah, Nitori had hints at jerkishness from her first appearance. It's just that she also tends to suck up to anyone she thinks is dangerous.
Quote from: Mountain of Faith
Nitori: You're an energetic human. Kappa and humans have been sworn friends since ancient times, so let me tell you something.
Marisa: For the loser to claim to be a sworn friend is a little strange.
Nitori: Recently, a threatening god has taken up residence at the top of the mountain. Thanks to that, us kappa and tengu have been bothered.
Marisa: What are you saying? You want me to go solve it?
Nitori: Ah, I've said too much, don't worry about it.
Quote from: Mountain of Faith
Nitori: Hey human! Kappa and humans have been sworn friends since ancient times, so let me tell you something.
Reimu: Sworn friends? Are you sure you haven't mistaken an old enemy for a friend?
Nitori: It's true that there's been a restless god on top of the mountain lately. Are you going to go beat her?
Reimu: Well, what a surprising place to get such great information. To tell you the truth, I'd forgotten why I'd come all the way up here.
Nitori: Ah, I can't believe it. Humans are so flaky. I knew I should have asked the tengu about this instead.
And just look at how she acts in Subterranean Animism.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 03:02:50 AM by Prime32 »

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2014, 02:59:29 AM »
Nitori: Her suddenly turning out to be a massive jerk in HM dialogues. That is all.
The only time Nitori wasn't an obvious jerk was in her MoF dialogue, which is one of the least content-packed of her appearances. So yeah.

And she's a borderline sue. She is literally undefeatable in the lore because LOLFANTASYHEAVEN and 'If you kill me you're all screwed'. She basically can't lose if she fights seriously.
The rest of the complaints are fine, but this is never relevant in the universe at all and it always confuses me when people bring stuff like this up. Having all these outrageously powerful beings all together in a world where nobody ever fights seriously or uses the full extent of their powers to do almost anything is sort of the point. Having characters like this is spectacularly not-Sue-like and wonderful here because the setting invalidates it completely and is really one of the core reasons the characters are remotely acceptable. One of the reasons people harp on Yorihime is because even in-context she had Sue-like characteristics, unlike the other characters participating that just had run-of-the-mill cheat powers (except even that isn't really all that important because SSiB was all about superpowers trying to trump everyone else while completely disregarding their respective abilities; see central point again).

Like, at no point is Reimu considered undefeatable because "defeat" doesn't mean "defeat while everyone is putting their lives on the line and doing the most they possibly can to win", which is the only context where Fantasy Nature and the Barrier's stability become relevant. Fantasy Nature is explicitly beatable in modern Gensokyo and nobody ever wanted to kill the shrine maiden even before the Rules were put into play.

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2014, 03:41:14 AM »
Every touhou is wonderful and precious and I couldn't stand to lose a single one.

Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2014, 03:48:31 AM »
What about Hatate? IE: back-up Aya?

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2014, 03:51:06 AM »
Yukari domestically abuses Ran.

Yukari is worst.

That is all.  :colbert:
Ran's entirely fine with it, though.

She's the TRUE masochist in Gensokyo. Everybody forgets that :V

Pretty much this, too, is always something in the back of my mind where Yukari's concerned. She really is completely self-interested, and has no compunction with tableflipping people's lives just for larfs. What kind of person does this? And, best part of all, everyone's stuck with her, forever apparently. As a character it makes her interesting to watch in action, and you could argue she gives many Gensokyans a purpose in life. But on the other hand, so does Vladimir Putin, so seriously, Yukari is definitely among the worst.
This is not really true.

While she's certainly the kind of person that enjoys toying with people, her utmost concern is with the wellfare of Gensokyo, as it's repeatedly stated. Without her, the place wouldn't even exist in the first place, after all. Also, in canon, how many times have we seen her fucking up people's lives for laughs? She even donates to the Hakurei Shrine when Reimu isn't looking.

Not to say she's a good person. She's extremely manipulative and can be very cruel, but she's not the kind of person that does horrible things just for laughs. As far as has been shown, anyway.

Also, her only shown "abuse" of Ran is hitting her in the head with an umbrella for fighting without her approval. That's the equivalent of an owner hitting their dog with a newspaper to stop it from jumping on people without being told to do so. Ran agreed to be her servant and to do everything she says to the letter; if she's not gonna follow on that, she should know she's gonna be punished for it.

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ふねん1

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2014, 04:00:28 AM »
I actually have a gameplay-related reason for not liking Hatate that much. I've always felt that her lack of zoom ended up restricting DS's attack designs somewhat. In StB, the zoom played a more prominent role by adding another layer to the puzzle-solving element. But in DS every attack needed to accommodate for Hatate's shorter range, meaning you could almost always find some way to get close to the boss. And the one attack where this is not the case (one of Iku's scenes iirc) ends up being one of the hardest scenes in the game because she just can't reach far enough. >.<
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 04:02:34 AM by ふねん1 »
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2014, 04:03:52 AM »
Wait, I thought of one I don't like. Kasen's pet dragon.

Back in the day I violently insisted that there was no way that Hong Meiling was a dragon, because the old canon had hyped them up to cosmic levels of importance. But now that one's been shown as a subordinate to another touhou, it means Meiling can be a dragon just fine, because dragons are as trivial as Rumia now, so whatever. Makes me look like a goddamn fool.

 :colbert:

Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2014, 04:12:29 AM »
Wait, I thought of one I don't like. Kasen's pet dragon.

Back in the day I violently insisted that there was no way that Hong Meiling was a dragon, because the old canon had hyped them up to cosmic levels of importance. But now that one's been shown as a subordinate to another touhou, it means Meiling can be a dragon just fine, because dragons are as trivial as Rumia now, so whatever. Makes me look like a goddamn fool.

 :colbert:

No, it makes Kasen super-awesome. Even though it's Kasen's pet, the story still hypes it as some sort of supreme weather-controlling being that affects the environment passively just by existing. For example, it's always raining when the dragon's on screen, they cause natural disasters simply by hatching, etc.

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2014, 04:14:41 AM »
It is still a baby, though. I wonder how long it takes for them to grow.
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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2014, 04:17:28 AM »
I suppose there was also that self-proclaimed Evil Dragon from Forbidden Scrollery that somehow got its powers stolen. That might have been a better example of dragons being fallible. Of course, Suiki also proves that oni are dragon tier terrifying, at least when seen from ground level.

Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2014, 07:41:07 AM »
Pretty much this, too, is always something in the back of my mind where Yukari's concerned. She really is completely self-interested, and has no compunction with tableflipping people's lives just for larfs. What kind of person does this? And, best part of all, everyone's stuck with her, forever apparently. As a character it makes her interesting to watch in action, and you could argue she gives many Gensokyans a purpose in life. But on the other hand, so does Vladimir Putin, so seriously, Yukari is definitely among the worst.

What's interesting, but maybe to be expected, in this thread is how people are describing character traits that I agree with, but have a completely different emotional response to. Like Critz's take on Cirno. I agree that that's Cirno's behavior. I think it's what makes her endearing. But at the same time, stuff like Yukari's gleeful sociopathy is pretty indisputably terrible.

Yukari sometimes steals Reimu's food.  I'm not particularly aware of her playing any other pranks in the canon just for the sake of pranking.

She does, however, do a lot of plans and schemes for the good of Gensokyo or for the good of others that she disguises as pranks.  Like attacking the three fairies and scaring the hell out of them when it was really a test to see if they could take care of a tree that was part of the border (IE, for the good of Gensokyo).  Or taking Rinnosuke's IPod in an intrusive manner, but that IPod risked dragging Rinnosuke into the real world.

It's never even stated if she's doing it for shits and giggles, far as I recall.  If anything, I'm inclined to think she's doing it for the same reason she did it in Silent Sinner in Blue.  IE, she wants people to fear her because she's a youkai, and thus covers up her good deeds as pranks and such so that people will hate (and thus fear) her.  If everyone knew she was actually benevolent and if she was nicer to everyone about all these things she did for their own good and the good of Gensokyo, people would stop fearing her and for a youkai, that's not just a matter of pride.  That's a matter of EXISTANCE.  Of course, that's just a theory I have based on all the work she went through just to play a prank massive enough to get even Eirin to fear her explicitly because humans were supposed to fear youkai as a matter of nature or whatever.  It's not explicitly stated that's why she makes everyone else fear (through hate) her too but, far as I can tell, it's not explicitly stated that she inwardly sadistically cackles in glee whenever she  pokes people in aggravating ways to get them to do things, either.  And as mentioned, she did donate money to Reimu secretly (again, doing good deeds but not wanting anyone to know).

(of course, I'm in the camp that she lost the Lunar War on purpose so youkai would never again go too far, but doesn't want anyone to know, and caused the great hakurei barrier debate on purpose so humans would have some free room to flourish, but doesn't want anyone to know, made the spell card contract with Remilia to usher in Gensokyo's new golden age of paradise, but doesn't want anyone to know (so she arranged things so that Reimu got credit for drafting the spell card rules instead), and possibly even was the one that sealed away the ayukashi tree using Yuyuko's body because it was murdering too many people, but again, doesn't want anyone to know.  Can't prove any of that, though beyond circumstantial evidence.  But eh, at least there IS circumstantial evidence for it, IMHO)

Even her beating of Ran she claims is for Ran's own good (at least, as Yukari claims).  I'm inclined to believe Yukari sincerely believes that claim, as we've seen Yukari's own perspective of Ran and she clearly really does think of Ran like that.  Now, this isn't necessarily a good thing (if anything, it really does show that Yukari's a bit kooky in the head. Then again, her idea of reality possibly really is the reality of Gensokyo) but it does at least show she didn't particularly mean any malicenous out of it.  It's a case of Blue and Orange morality, if anything (which again, is not necessarily a good thing but at least shows she's not outright trying to be evil or anything).

The stories that take place from her perspective weren't particularly smug in the narrative, IMHO.  She's always outwardly smug when she's talking to people and her outside dialogue is really smug, but her own inner thoughts weren't as far as I could tell, at least in terms of her thinking things like "I'm the greatest and better than everyone else!".  She mostly seems to spend her thinking time just puzzling things together to herself because she finds that sort of thing interesting.  I guess she's sometimes dissappointed when other people don't even try to think about things (like when she goes from door to door in A Flower Blooming Violet and everyone just gives her really lazy answers when she asks if they know why the flowers are blooming) but that's more "sad" than "smug" (her own inner thoughts had her humbly thinking that she couldn't remember the reason, either).  Like everything else, I suspect her smugness might actually just be an act to make sure people keep fearing her.  Her true personality from her own inner thoughts seems to be a really geeky introverted scholar, really (kinda like, a lonely Maribel with no Renko to talk to, come to think about it.  All Yukari's attempts to sincerely talk to anyone else about philosophy things in A Flower Blooming Violent really just resulted in them giving her the equivalent of blank stares and her attempts to discuss philosophy with Ran mentioned in CiLR apparently always gave equally dissappointing results).

TL;DR:  Yukari has almost always done things for the good of Gensokyo or for the good of others but always does it in a way and with a smug "unnerving smile" (according to Rinnosuke and several others, IIRC) expression that gets people pissed off at her (and often without knowing she did it for the good of Gensokyo).  Her interactions with Eirin shows that this might actually be on purpose in order to make sure people continue to fear her as a youkai, which is necessary  (as far as we know) because youkai are supposed to be feared, and her own narrative perspective (from CiLR and A Flower Blooming Violet) might indicate that the smugness too is not her real personality (which is possibly actually just "philosophical nerd").


(My memory could be off on all of this.  It's actually been years since I've last read those stories, come to think about it)


On a Different topic:  Nitori and Kappa are pretty much confirmed to eat humans too.  Or at least, their anus balls. It's mentioned before in spell card texts and SoPM, but if people weren't taking that seriously, chapter 22 of Wild and Horned Hermit has Nitori almost blurt it out but stopping herself mid-sentence because she was in the presence of humans at the time.  Interestingly enough, it's in part because they need some salt intake because there are no seas in Gensokyo, which then makes me think of Chef's "Chocolate salty balls" song in South Park.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2014, 08:46:18 AM by Tiamat »

Drake

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2014, 08:45:12 AM »
Quote
I guess she's sometimes dissappointed when other people don't even try to think about things (like when she goes from door to door in A Flower Blooming Violet and everyone just gives her really lazy answers when she asks if they know why the flowers are blooming) but that's more "sad" than "smug" (her own inner thoughts had her humbly thinking that she couldn't remember the reason, either). 
Also, when she asks Ran about the lunar cycle and just gets a completely literal computer shikigami answer

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Tengukami

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2014, 08:51:39 AM »
Yukari defending the world she lives in isn't mutually exclusive with her also being a smug puppetmaster. This isn't exactly an either/or thing. I mean she has a vested interest in preserving Gensokyo. That doesn't prevent her from instigation for its own sake, though.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

CyberAngel

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Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2014, 09:50:06 AM »
Just because she can doesn't mean she does that. As Tiamat explained, so far all instances of her messing with others usually had benevolent motives behind them that were big enough to justify her actions.

Continuing the off-topic talk a little bit more, while I'm not too keen on the talk about whether or not youkai actually eat humans, it IS stated that humans are considered a delicacy for youkai, and I can accept that even most human-friendly youkai possibly considering it an option is an unavoidable quirk in youkai mindset. Except...

the Prismrivers definitely eat people

...wat. Nope. Ghosts, phantoms and so on don't eat humans in Gensokyo. Unless you count feeding off their spirits and/or possession. Which Prismrivers don't do.

Tengukami

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  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: The Worst Gensokyans
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2014, 10:30:54 AM »
Just because she can doesn't mean she does that. As Tiamat explained, so far all instances of her messing with others usually had benevolent motives behind them that were big enough to justify her actions.

Serious question: what were the important motives behind SSiB, where Yukari's involvement is concerned?

Apart from that, no one is saying Yukari is evil incarnate. But neither is she some selfless servant of Gensokyo for the greater good. Like many others, she has her good and bad sides. Her bad side just happens to annoy me.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."