Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[Raikaria]

Also inb4 accusations of a chainsaw defense.

I'm voting Dorian for his case being weak [using things like wagonhopping on someone with only 1 real vote, and when 2 of the votes on the 'wagon' are RVS], and for contradictions within his case ['You are voting Zakeri for doing nothing!'... 'Proceeds to talk about the jokevote which is not doing nothing.']. It dosen't matter who mkakes that sort of case on who, I'm not going to like it all the same.

Also to elaborate: I don't like Zakeri because of the 'jokevote' and because of his quip about Serela and 'someone else' [Mordin] wagon hopping and bandwagoning when they had only placed an RVS vote. Bard also accused them of this but Bard hasn't done other things I don't like.

[CF7]

I hate D1 Votecount.

Zakeri (5): Chaore, SB, Dormio, Serela, NekoNekoRex
Dormio (4): Anonimosity, Dr Rawr, moridin84
Serela (1): Dorian
Massaca (3): Zakeri, Schezo, BT
Chaore (1): ActionDan
Moridin84 (1): Just
ActionDan (2): Oarfish, Massaca
Dorian (1): Raikaria

Not voting:
None. -_-

With 16 alive you need 9 votes to lyunch someone to the Moon.

Seconds ticking down...

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I can already tell that this is going to be one of those games for me. Fuck.

I still don't like Zakeri's posts but I guess I'll hold until he has more content I guess.
##Unvote

I don't like O4rfish's posts either. I don't think that they're particularly scummy right now though. So whatever.

##Vote Raikaria
I find Raikaria's focus on ActionDan's claimed post restriction to be scummy.
That he withheld his vote during the entire exchange in the early stages of the game makes me think that Raikaria was waiting for somebody else to take the first step in voting Dan for ~role shenanigans~.
More importantly, I think that Raikaria wanted to be confident that at least one person agreed with his point of view before committing himself to it.
I also feel that Raikaria's posts are focused on more technical reasons for why someone would be scum to the point where it's not really genuine scumhunting.
Like I get the feeling that Raikaria is doing that thing where he is looking for mistakes rather than looking for scum.
Or something. Whatever. This game is way too hard.

[Raikaria]

I'm doing that thing where I'm looking for scum and asking questions.

And Dormio how am I waiting for someone to agree with me before voting? No-one else is voting Dorian... I've not waited for anyone to give opinions on Dorian.
My Dorian vote completely disproves this:

##Vote Raikaria
I find Raikaria's focus on ActionDan's claimed post restriction to be scummy.
That he withheld his vote during the entire exchange in the early stages of the game makes me think that Raikaria was waiting for somebody else to take the first step in voting Dan for ~role shenanigans~.
More importantly, I think that Raikaria wanted to be confident that at least one person agreed with his point of view before committing himself to it.

In fact for that matter I'm not even voting Dan. I'm defending Dan. To quote what Rawr says that I agree with:

ignoring the fact that actiondan may or may not have a post restriction. why would i lynch action dan for having claimed anti town powers he obtains at some point? im pretty sure scum arnt that ballsy

on a kinda related note obtaining powers at a later point isnt that weird the same thing can happen to me two

[SB]

Dan's restriction holds for now so nothing on that but I was thinking on Dormio's SB vote. At first I thought SB's was a good question but thinking about Dormio voting him for it and later saying why I'm now wondering what the point in asking was. Why would the mod possibly have it be in effect in *YLO when that would be auto-win for scum? Seems like a redundant question to make a contribution.

The last game here with a hated townie didn't turn off in *YLO. I wanted to make sure we weren't facing it a day early.

Also ##FoS on SB for having no scumreads and not doing anything else productive. At least comment on the current votes in place or something, or comment on any of the weird quirks.

I'm not going to make up scumreads just to make myself look productive. It took me a reread to actually get anything productive out of the thread, so I really don't think Zak is as bad as people are making him out to be because of this.

Oarfish, why is Dan's PR more likely to be fabricated than true? I'm reading it as null atm, especially since I've seen townies fake PRs for no reason before. It'd be good if you voiced some other suspicions too, because you're kind of blocking out everything that isn't Dan right now.

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

Serela's post at the top of page 4 bugs me. If you think Raikaria's actions can be dismissed just because he's Raikaria, why bring them up in the first place? It's not like he's a huge wagon people need to talk about, so this just reads as really odd to me. I also dislike how he accuses Dorian of twisting his meta in order to case him, especially since all Dorian on that point was that it was beyond the amount you normally waffle?

If Massaca is gonna say stuff like "miller claim means Dorian is shady as hell" he needs to like, actually examine his posts rather than just make an assumption. I also feel as if his Dan case is way too reliant on what he COULD do in future instead of the scummy he things he's done so far.

Kind of uncomfortable with how easily Schezo backs off of Serela. Yes, he has content right now, but is it good content? Because it doesn't look like you've really examined it before dismissing your vote on him.

I dislike how Bard votes the wrong person but then decides "oh well he's scummy anyway" rather than fixing it. It feels like he's missing his usual conviction.

I haven't actually read the last 10 posts or so properly yet, but I'm kind of tired of rereading+writing.

[Bardiche]

I dislike how Bard votes the wrong person but then decides "oh well he's scummy anyway" rather than fixing it. It feels like he's missing his usual conviction.

Except I didn't vote the wrong person, I just thought it was worse than I thought it was. Still bad, but not as terrible.

Serela's sounding frighteningly competent, I almost want to vote him for not being a waffle-iron perpetually waddling around in utter confusion.
I'm lost on why we're voting ActionDan precisely. Dorian's case seems to be made up wholly of conjecture and what he claims to be personal bias, and he leaps very suddenly into "ActionDan has a Post Restriction"►"Post restriction following gives him anti-Town powers".
If he did, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have mentioned it, since it's rather harmless and there are easier ways to hide it. I do agree with the bit about how it's odd he claims a restriction, but needs to be pressed for clarification when it's so supremely harmless and boring, but I maintain it just isn't enough reason to decide he's Scum on.

##Unvote
##VOTE: Dorian

Dormio voting Raikaria would've been dandy if he hadn't ended with "whatever, game is hard", which feels like post-coital justification to say his vote sucks.

[Moridin]

Also to elaborate: I don't like Zakeri because of the 'jokevote' and because of his quip about Serela and 'someone else' [Mordin] wagon hopping and bandwagoning when they had only placed an RVS vote. Bard also accused them of this but Bard hasn't done other things I don't like.

Indeed I am suspicious of this as well. I have not have time yet but I'm going to go through everyone who complained about "bandwagoning" of myself of Serala.

I imagine everyone can be split into the following

1) Players who disapproved of the "bad play"
2) TOWN players trolling to see if any "scumtells" come out
3) MAFIA players were trying to discredit a TOWN player
4) Idiots

The last game here with a hated townie didn't turn off in *YLO

What's a *YLO?

[CF7]

What's a *YLO?

MyLo - Mislynch and Lose.
LyLo - Lynch or Lose.

[ActionDan]

So like !

I don't think I've ever seen this much angst over a post restriction before.  I am not sure what shrooms people are eating but as I said before, my role and this post restriction DO NOT seem to be related in any way.  I got a PM at after I confirmed (possibly given out start of D1) saying I had a post restriction. Again... I do not have anti-town powers attached to my actual ROLE PM.  They have come with this POST RESTRICTION which I labeled as AN EFFECT.  Just because I used Pokemans as an example doesn't mean that my ROLE PM is linked at the hip with my POST RESTRICTION.

I read Oarfish's wall.  I blinked.  Brain melted.

I read Massaca's followup vote.  Brain melted. 

But I want to ask Massaca why he thinks I painted a target on my back when

1) If I claim additional anti-town ability/power/effect/whatever why the dastardly bastards trying to kill us all would actually want to off an anti-town "/"/"/"

2) Everyone has some kind of role anyway.

[ActionDan]

##unvote

chaore looks kinda town

[ActionDan]

Fuck !

[ActionDan]

!

I have to get in the habit of doing this.

[ActionDan]

!

I can't break it again or worse things happen

[CF7]

Fuck !

*evil laugh*

!

I can't break it again or worse things happen

Yep. Much worse.

[Raikaria]

So I am correct in the impression that someone inflicted this post restriction on you.

[WHMZakeri]

Dorian changing his slam against Serela's vote to fit the "Hypocritical voting" definition feels kind of forced, like he's hammering the reason into shape. On day one, that's not very scummy, but it doesn't make for a convincing vote to wagon on.

I don't like that my counter wagon as of 131 is the joke-vote wagon. watching Rawr, Moridin and BT.

I agree with Oarfish about  Actiondan's claim. his claim thus far is "Can't use the word mafia or scum" and "Must sound excited for at least one sentence." Which is super easy to get around to the point that a majority of people wouldn't even be able to tell it was a PR. Dan had to have been acting weird and jilted on purpose for the express excuse of telling everyone that he had a PR, an act which is definately much more distracting than the claimed PR so far is. [Left in for convenience]

How can one be wagon 'hopping' when one has only placed a single vote? Accusing Serela of jumping on the wagon, which was nowhere near the edge and was clearly a jokevote in RVS is one thing, but accusing someone of hopping around wagons is quite another.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. I meant something like "Hopping onto the biggest wagon with literally no reason or content", not the actual act of hopping onto wagon after wagon after wagon. I didn't think it would be that confusing since the entire game has only had one sizable wagon at the point I said that.

Also, Raikaria, I don't like the way you phrase the bit about me and Dorian being suspicious of Serela for the same reason. You say it's an "interesting note" as if two people can't come to the same conclusion on their own, and in the same breath distance yourself from calling us scumbuddies while strongly implying we might be. What's the need for the conspiracy theory?

Your summary post looks fine, though. I might be jumping at shadowes in my last paragraph.

Moridin, what's the ETA of you being able to read through the thread and updating your vote?
##Unvote: Massaca
##Vote: Moridin84

...oh, so it looks like ActionDan's Post restriction is something that might have been given to him by another person's role. I never really understood what "PR not being a part of his own role" meant until he mentioned recieving it in another post. The way he claimed it is still weird, but I can see the protown intent behind trying to claim it now.
Cut by mod confirmation.

[Bardiche]

With the mod tacitly confirming that ActionDan's Post Restriction is real, I would like to ask Dorian's take on things now.

[Bardiche]

Am I mixing up Dorian and O4rfish?

[Sky_Paladin]

Vote count of the gentle breeze from the West. 

Dormio (4): Anonimosity, Dr Rawr, moridin84
Zakeri (3): Chaore, Serela, NekoNekoRex
Massaca (3): Zakeri, Schezo, BT
Serela (2): Dorian, SB
ActionDan (2): Oarfish, Massaca
Dorian (2): Raikaria, Just
Raikaria (1): Dormio
Moridin84 (1): Zakeri

Not voting:
ActionDan

With sixteen players alive, it takes nine votes to hammer. 

Timer.

[Dorian White]

Dorian's case. It bothers me because the whole double standards thing isn't really relevant. It would be pointless pressing Raikaria over taking someone too seriously, but it isn't-so-pointless to press Zak for skimping on content.
Then there's this transition into "but why did you ignore other active lurkers".. which wasn't the point. By that logic, you could be voting anyone on the Zak wagon, or probably most wagons at this stage.

Well, the double standards thing was indeed a misunderstanding on my end but it's quite nice of you that you want to tell me what's the point of my case.^^ The problem is, if Serela intended to push a lurker for content then why didn't he picked one who wasn't already covered?

@Raikaria: Na, geh her Piefke. What was I supposed to do? Wait till he jumps on a third wagon, that may or may not come into existence today? And the number of votes on Zakeri wasn't relevant, anyone with a bit of experience could tell that the wagon would pick up momentum.

...
Also worth mentioning that Dorian is voting Serela for voting Zakeri, and both Dorian and Zakeri seem to be using the really bad wagon hopping case against Serela. [Zakeri's use being even worse but he's not actually voting on it.]. Not saying they're scumbuddies but it's still an interesting sign.
...

I'm not voting Serela for voting Zakeri, your misrepresentation is noticed. And if you not saying that I'm scum with Zakeri then what's so interesting about that?

By the way, RVS is nothing that ends because someone declared it as over. We are still hanging in midair when it comes to content.

 

Am I mixing up Dorian and O4rfish?

It seems so. At last your vote post would make more sense since I can't remember having said anything about Dans PR.

[NekoNekoRex]

Oh no, the nightmares I was having were real. You're all still here, drinking my tea and being loud. And none of you brought booze to share.

I immediately don't like Dorian for going into meta-hunting and using it to handwave/vote people. It's worse because he isn't showing any real scumhunting in his posts, he pops in to talk about meta then pops out.

Also don't like Oarfish, the delving  (#135) into Dan's role is way too much speculation-based and has no real roots into any valid reasons Dan might be scum

Don't like Massaca's followup #136, and it doesn't make a lot of sense either when everyone has a role anyway. We don't even know if Dan will get a useful role. Bonus points that Massaca also does rolespec without scumhunting.

SB: Post numbers please, not everyone uses the default posts per page number (Although since I'm doing 40 Serela's post shows up on page 4 anyway)

Mixed feelings on the Serela votes, I think Serela is playing rather decently right now, although I notice Serela does have a lot of fluff posts which seem bad. However this comes off as more null then anything, the content of Serela's posts still look like he's putting effort in. I would probably object to a Serela lynch at this stage, he doesn't come off as actively scummy or anti-town.

Moridin (almost said Morison there gdi Schezo) has frighteningly low content, he needs to start scumhunting stat.

Making frowny faces at Zak for putting a prodvote down and doing nothing else productive, ironic considering the nature of his vote. Pretty sure my vote is safe on him, although now I seem to have a lot of options as far as where it should go.

[NekoNekoRex]

IT would be better who ask Zak who he thinks is scum at this stage, maybe with some summed up reasons

[NekoNekoRex]

Here's an obligatory 'where is Rawr' post as well.

[Moridin]

Moridin, what's the ETA of you being able to read through the thread and updating your vote?

Errm, 4 to 8 hours I guess? Unless people at work decide to go drinking. Then it will be tomorrow.

[Bardiche]

##Unvote
##VOTE: O4rfish
There we go then.

[Dr Rawr]

Here's an obligatory 'where is Rawr' post as well.

Not posting because that would be such a waste of a lunch break 

[Raikaria]

@ Dorian:

Ultimately you are voting Serela for voting Zakeri. At least, this is what it looks like to me.

You suggest part of the reason you are voting for Serela is 'wagon jumping', or at least agree with it, meaning you are in part voting Serela for jumping onto the Zakeri 'wagon'. Aka: For voting Zakeri.

Not to mention the crux of your argument in #130 is:

So why is it better to ?vote Zakeri for being Zakeri? than to vote Raikaria for the same reason?

Again; your logic is centered about Serela voting Zakeri.

If Serela was not voting Zakeri your entire [weak] logic for voting Serela falls apart. At least part of the reason you are voting Serela is the Zakeri vote, the other part being Serela not voting for me.

I am not misrepresenting you in any way. It is clear that at least a significant part of your reason for voting Serela is that Serela voted for Zakeri.

[Raikaria]

Also on the topic of me pointing out Zakeri and Dorian having similar thoughts about Serela within a few posts:

I point out anything that looks interesting to me and make note of it for future reference so when I re-read I can look over my own posts as event summaries; particularly of what I thought was important at that time. This also serves for other people's use of seeing what I thought may be important when they re-read. If that fact is relevant later or not is up in the air at this time.

I thought it may be important because in my opinion Dorian is voting Serela in part for Serela's Zakeri vote; and using the same thing Zakeri mentioned a few posts before as a slight backup.

[Raikaria]

On completely unrelated notes:

- I think I know who NNR is at this point.
- The number of townreads I have has increased since I last spoke about my townreads.

[NekoNekoRex]

Kind of hard to determine who I like least. I'll try but the people I don't like are all pretty close to getting kicked out.

Annoying:
Dan
SB
Bard
BT
Dormio
Schezo
Raikaria
Serela
Chaore

Get Out
Moridin (Will be upgraded if no content soon, or bad content)
Rawr (no content, needs content soon)
Dorian (meta, no scumhunting)

To Be Pichuu~n'd
O4rfish (Too much spec, not enough scumhunting, bad vote)
Massaca (Empty unvotes, 'me too!' posts, rolespec, bad vote)
Zak (Voteparks, lack of content despite posting, bleh vote)