SCP Containment Breach Mafia - Game Over

[Dorian White]

I thought your slot was scummy on D1. Then I found some weird stuff about SB and decided I hated the both of you, but found him worse. Then his claim made me second-guess. Then your posts made me second-guess. Why am I scum for any of that?
...

That's simple if you bring in the context of the day. You already opened the day being indifferent on the matter as it stood 1vs1 vote. You started to suspect me more as my wagon picked up momentum, and yes, even soft defended SB based on his claim. Your second-guess about me came just as the situation started  to open again through Dans suspicion on SB, where you picked the third option Sky Paladin, ?Easy as fuck? as Vhaltz would say. And as the table finally turned came your condemnation of SB, based on his behavior surrounding his claim, the very claim that gave you  second-guess.
Your stance on the claim was contradictory and your overall behavior opportunistic.

There is also this:
?Looking at the other players, BT is looking better than when he was Townest, it feels like he's posting now to catch scum rather than just because he needs to get the posts out there, even if his early activity levels were fairly similar.?
In the light of the above is it needless to say that I'm disagreeing with that point. I do even go as far as to say the opposite was the case. And yet he puts you later in that post on the same level as the townny he supposedly just coped.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Dorian White]

it's optimal to lynch vanilla then have both Raikaria and BT visit the other one.

The only lynch that can be called optimal under this circumstances or any other circumstances is to lynch scum.

[Raikaria]

^ This. It didn't register how bad that statement was until you pointed that out Dorian.

[BT]

That's simple if you bring in the context of the day. You already opened the day being indifferent on the matter as it stood 1vs1 vote. You started to suspect me more as my wagon picked up momentum, and yes, even soft defended SB based on his claim. Your second-guess about me came just as the situation started  to open again through Dans suspicion on SB, where you picked the third option Sky Paladin, ?Easy as fuck? as Vhaltz would say. And as the table finally turned came your condemnation of SB, based on his behavior surrounding his claim, the very claim that gave you  second-guess.
Your stance on the claim was contradictory and your overall behavior opportunistic.

Actually, that's not true. I started second-guessing BEFORE Dan cased SB. When I came into D2 I was anything but indifferent, considering the amount of effort that went into the SB case. Seriously, you're just looking at the fact that I went back and forth and didn't put a vote, but that's something I do all the time. Judge things by the reasoning behind them - I think I explained my opinion shifts well enough.

There is also this:
?Looking at the other players, BT is looking better than when he was Townest, it feels like he's posting now to catch scum rather than just because he needs to get the posts out there, even if his early activity levels were fairly similar.?
In the light of the above is it needless to say that I'm disagreeing with that point. I do even go as far as to say the opposite was the case. And yet he puts you later in that post on the same level as the townny he supposedly just coped.

Interesting, isn't it?

Yeah, I noticed that, but in this case it means nothing. Scum want to have townreads and scumreads and sometimes they just don't want to case someone, so they make up some reason for why they think they guy they KNOW is town is town. It usually ends up something like "that's just how I FEEL, man. It FEELS that way" which is exactly the case here. The same goes for fake townreads on scumbuddies - what he said about Refa. If you're taking this as a point against me, it's a point against Sky as well. As a matter of fact, SB didn't even consider Refa/Sky in... any of his posts after RVS.

^ This. It didn't register how bad that statement was until you pointed that out Dorian.

Dan and I aren't both scum. <_< If you think Dan's town, he's not trying anything foul here. And he's right.

[BT]

Raikaria, why do you think I'm scum over Sky?

[BT]

Seriously, Sky has been lurking ever since he's subbed in. Town subs read through the thread and have a lot to talk about, which is what makes subbing in as town easy and subbing in as scum really hard.

[Raikaria]

Raikaria, why do you think I'm scum over Sky?

Gut and the fact that the posts I mentioned seemed like you were defending SB slightly; while Sky didn't really.

But as I said; it's one or the other of you unless there were some shenanigans going on. I honestly don't care which of you gets lynched first. We'd lynch the other tomorrow.

And you're acting really suspicious and scared of being voted when it shouldn't even matter which order things are done in since everyone else is pretty much clear [Not totally clear; but pretty much]. I don't really see many ways Dorian can be scum; and while Dan can be scum it's not likely.

I'm not saying both you and Dan are scum; at no point did I say this. That knee-jerk reaction to me saying 'Yeah that statement by Dan was bad Dorian' also seems suspicious. It's an over-reaction and putting words into my mouth.

The Dan thing is simply a thing to keep in mind in the event Dan and Sky were trying some funny business. I'm not saying 'BT and Dan are both scum'. By no means.

But you know what? Whatever. I keep saying it dosen't matter which order people are lynched in; so I'll just lynch Sky first if you are so adamant against it.

#Unvote
#Vote: Sky Paladin

[BT]

And you're acting really suspicious and scared of being voted when it shouldn't even matter which order things are done in since everyone else is pretty much clear [Not totally clear; but pretty much]. I don't really see many ways Dorian can be scum; and while Dan can be scum it's not likely.

It's an ego thing. No one likes being lynched. What would you do in my situation? You shouldn't judge people by the fact that they're defending themselves but by how they're doing it. Also, see the thing I said about town losses. Micro 31, Town Mafia, Villains Anonyfia and some more I might be forgetting is quite the resume.

I'm not saying both you and Dan are scum; at no point did I say this. That knee-jerk reaction to me saying 'Yeah that statement by Dan was bad Dorian' also seems suspicious. It's an over-reaction and putting words into my mouth.

The Dan thing is simply a thing to keep in mind in the event Dan and Sky were trying some funny business. I'm not saying 'BT and Dan are both scum'. By no means.

Oh I didn't say you said it, but raising an eyebrow at that Dan post implies he's trying to steer people away from the lynch like some shady mofo. Since we can't both be scum, I'm telling you it's not really possible. :V

[Dorian White]

I can't believe what I see here, one of you unvote RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!
This may be our last opportunity to work things out before our minds get blurred by LyLo paranoia. We got a whole day time and I don't want to risk that it could end before it began.

[Raikaria]

But likewise you cannot ignore something like that which is a valid point.

Dorian; there are two realistic situations here:

Sky is scum
BT is scum

There are some outlier situations; one of which becomes more obvious if Dan quickhammers a town Sky; seeing as you're strictly against hammering Sky.

We have a mislynch as well. With only 2 realistic suspects for scum; we have nothing to lose by lynching one of BT or Sky today. Everyone else is at least semi-clear; and we've got my roleblock N4 as well to figure out more stuff.

[Raikaria]

In fact can everyone post their current stances on everyone? A brief summary so we know where everyone stands.

Myself - I'm town. I am 100% sure of this.
Dorian - I think he is almost certainly town due to interactions with SB. Slight chance to be scum if bussing happened but I doubt that
Dan - I am fairly confident he is town thanks to SB 'confirming' him. The chances of him being scum are higher than Dorian; but far below the other two.
BT - Not exactly the biggest town contributor in the game. Some defense of SB D2 IMO; not cleared by anything
Sky - Lurking through the whole game. Hasn't really contributed to town in any way; shape or form; nor is he clear.

Lynch priorities from top to bottom are lowest to highest.

[Dorian White]

Scum wouldn't even think about hammering right now, it's town who has the nasty habit to do such foolish things. And I really don't like the idea to go for a ?lets quikelynch the one who quicklynchs? gambit when we have so much time left.

[Raikaria]

Scum wouldn't even think about hammering right now, it's town who has the nasty habit to do such foolish things. And I really don't like the idea to go for a ?lets quikelynch the one who quicklynchs? gambit when we have so much time left.

So basically you're worried if Dan is a moron or not?

Yeah I don't think Dan is in a rush to hammer and Sky isn't gonna selfhammer.

[ActionDan]

I'd have to reread.

[Dorian White]

Myself ? Think for yourself.
Dan ? A scum gambit would be unthinkable, given that the circumstances.
Raikaria ? town by interaction with scum and myself.
BT ? His behavior befits a scum agenda the most as far as I can see.
Rafa Paladin ? I can't recall anything telling that Rafa did and Sky is just not readable.

Yeah I don't think Dan is in a rush to hammer and Sky isn't gonna selfhammer.

I wouldn't count on that regardless of his alignment. <_< Not that I would mind a scum selfhammer but I'm a naturally pessimist. >_>

[Mitsuki]

It's time for another Votecount (1)

Sky_Paladin:  BT, Raikaria (L-1!)

Not voting: everyone else
You have 59 hours left in this phase!

[Sky_Paladin]

It was night time so I was away.  Reading now. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Raikaria

But you know what? Whatever. I keep saying it dosen't matter which order people are lynched in; so I'll just lynch Sky first if you are so adamant against it.

Of course BT is adamant against BT being lynched.  That statement is so stupid.  Your so eager to lynch anybody it's disgusting. 

I actually think one of the Rai's is more likely to be scum.  I seem to remember a big blow up between SB and one of the Rai's on day 1, I want to go re-read that and see if it's distancing or if there's anything useful in it. 

[Sky_Paladin]

BT calling out SB for inactivity, not the kind of thing scum tend to do. 
SB voting for Raikaria. 
Raitaki voting for SB. 
Raikaria claiming SB's vote is OMGUS (it's not). 
SB arguing with Raitaki and Raikaria. 

Are you actually serious about this? What. Just because you were attempting to make a case doesn't make you above suspicion, and your constant defensiveness based around this fact is really bad imo.

  This looks like a scumbuddy calling out another scumbuddy for their bad case, like when I was calling out Serela about two games back for tunneling on me all game.  This unintentional strategy worked because nobody believed Serela and I could be scumbuddies. 
Raikaria abandons their vote immediately after SB called them out and then replaces it...on SB.  States their only scumread is SB. 
BT soft defends SB late in the phase. 
Raikaria hammers NNR with six hours left in the phase. 
SB calls out Dan and BT for inactivity/no content.  Then this:  "I'm not sure if Raikaria is as scummy as I thought or if I just got kind of mad. Probably a bit of both. Gonna reskim the thread again in a few minutes to look into BT/Dan/Raitaki further."
Dorian starts the day by voting for SB before Dan reveals who vanillarized him; possibly a town clear. 
BT wall, picking SB and Raitaki as the scum team.  You were right on SB, BT, what happened to Raitaki?
Raikaria also picks SB/Raitaki for a scum team. 
SB also votes Raitaki.  Compelling reason for town!Raitaki/Dorian. 
Raikaria flip flops around SB vote, settles on Raitaki. 
SB specifically calls out Sky for his vote on Raitaki, which is a little odd because SB is voting there too. 
Raikaria back to voting SB once Dan made his case and BT claimed. 

I'm going to hit post now and re-read today.

[Sky_Paladin]

In response to Raikaria's claim against me:

Of course; under-the-radar applies to Sky Paladin even more.

That's incorrect.  I have more posts than BT and more content posts in day 2 than you do.  You post a lot but you don't say much.  Conversely, I post little and say a lot. 

Sky's reaction to Dan calling for a massclaim in #161 is suspect; he seems happy about it [Massclaims give scum information]; yet dosen't start things off by claiming himself.

This is a misrep.  I was happy for a massclaim because massclaims out scums (it's partially how we netted SB).  I didn't claim immediately because I was waiting for the majority of players to agree to a mass claim, otherwise, there's no mass claim.  The last person to claim was BT.  Why would I have to be the first person to claim in any case?  There was no claim order specified. 

Sky's #176 gives suspect reasons for thinking Dorian is scum.

Suspect according to you.  You should outline my case and specify why it is apparently bad instead of blanket handwaving it as 'suspect'. 

I pushed Dorian because of his L-1 reaction and the fact that I was very confident that one of SB or Dorian were scum

This is also untrue.  Please see my post here where I did exactly the same thing you did. 

Sky also only hammered because of consolidation

Once again, this is a misrep/untrue/fib/etc.  I agreed with Dan's case and indicated I would hammer because of it here. 

So on the one hand Raikaria claims I am 'below the radar' and don't post content, but on the other hand it's clear they are not actually reading my posts, or a deliberately misrepresenting them. 

Dorian is 'cleared' by interactions with SB as well
I like to think I am reasonably clear considering the amount of time SB spent trying to lynch me; but it's not up to me if I'm clear in your eyes or not.

I categorically disagree with both of these points.  The only player who I see as 100% confirmed town (and not me) is Dan. 

Despite Raikaria's bad case, it's a hell of a lot better than BT's case. 

BT

Dude subs in, doesn't do any groundwork and sticks his vote on the Raitaki wagon.

I arrived and initially sheeped Vhaltz's vote initially and then upgraded it to my own vote once we saw Dorian's scum reaction.  How is this bad?

SB tries passing Refa off as obvtown

Buddying, naturally. 

Vhaltz dies despite being "doctor'd" insomniac because he knows the scumteam and the scumteam know him.

  What does this even mean/how does it relate to your vote on me? 

More evidence could probably be unearthed - this is just off the top of my head.

Please do so because your case is lazy and non-existent. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Actually it's more simple than that. 

3x vanilla, 2x mafia, 3 town power roles = 8 players. 
3x vanilla - Sky, Doritaki, NNR. 
3x town power roles = Dan, Vhaltz, (one of BT or Raikaria)
2x mafia = SB, (one of BT or Raikaria)

OR
2x vanilla, 2x mafia, 4 town power roles = 8 players. 
2x vanilla - NNR, (one of Sky or Doritaki)
4x town power roles = Vhaltz, Dan, BT, Raikaria

By POE the last scum is one of (Sky or Doritaki) or (BT or Raikaria).  Killing Sky or Doritaki will town clear the other one, and killing BT or Raikaria will town clear the other one. 

I figure it's more likely we only have three town power roles, though, so I recommend lynching amongst BT or Raikaria. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Further;

Raikaria claimed he is a 1-shot roleblocker.  BT claimed he was roleblocked night 1.  BT made his claim last, and added that he was roleblocked night 1 after the 1 shot roleblocker was announced. 

However...it's likely that mafia have a roleblocker.  It's easy for a mafia player to fake a 1 shot roleblock. 

What's more likely?  BT lied about being roleblocked (so he didn't have to produce a result) or Raikaria lied about his role?  Or that both are telling the truth (and therefore, scum Dorian?)

I think we have too many town power roles, so therefore I believe that scum!Raikaria roleblocked BT on night 1. 

I subsequently make the case that:
SB and Raikaria's arguments on day 1 were caused by scumbuddies trying to distance themselves from each other/arguing against each other's cases. 
Raikaria's aggressive behavior, willingness to vote and change votes frequently, as well as the early hammer in the previous phase, are evidence of scum intent.
Raikaria's case against me is entirely based on misrep and false or misleading statements. 

##vote Raikaria

[Sky_Paladin]

By POE the last scum is one of (Sky or Doritaki) or (BT or Raikaria).  Killing Sky or Doritaki will town clear the other one, and killing BT or Raikaria will town clear the other one. 

I realise in hindsight that this makes no sense.  I'll try again. 

We either have too many vanilla towns or too many town power roles. 

If you think we have too many vanilla towns, then you're lynching between the two players who are claiming vanilla town - Sky and Doritaki. 

Keep in mind that Doritaki is actually a hydra role, so they may count as a town power role, and not a vanilla town. 

If you think that we have too many town power roles, then you're lynching between the two players who are contesting that role - BT and Raikaria.  Dan is uncontested because he is confirmed town. 

Interestingly, both Raikaria and BT are voting for me.  At least one of them is mafia knowing that if the other claimed town power role dies, they will be caught out.  Really, these two should be voting for each other; and up until Raikaria switched his vote from BT because of BT's counterpressure, Raikaria was. 

Out of the two, I think Raikaria's claim is the weakest and Raikaria has been the scummier out of the two, which is why I'm voting Raikaria.  However I could equally vote for BT for his bad case, awful vote and because I think we have too many town power roles. 

At this point I'm awake pretty much the dead opposite of everybody left alive so it's kind of annoying.  Scum will say I'm lurking; the reality is that nobody is around when I'm online, as evidenced by this page of solo Sky posts. 

Dan's the only person I trust 100%; I'll be interested in his opinion.  I'm trusting Doritaki a bit more only because I'm fairly certain the scum are between Raikaria and BT. 

[Raikaria]

I'm an idiot; of course Dan can't be SB's scumbuddy pulling a gambit; his initial role is un CC'ed and confirmed.

Sky is panicking and making a case on me. Frankly I saw so many things incorrect with the first few points alone that I gave up reading the rest of the walls but whatever:

BT calling out SB for inactivity, not the kind of thing scum tend to do. 
SB voting for Raikaria. 
Raitaki voting for SB. 
Raikaria claiming SB's vote is OMGUS (it's not). 
SB arguing with Raitaki and Raikaria.    This looks like a scumbuddy calling out another scumbuddy for their bad case, like when I was calling out Serela about two games back for tunneling on me all game.  This unintentional strategy worked because nobody believed Serela and I could be scumbuddies. 

Completely ignore the fact that I call out lurkers while applying it to BT.
Completely ignore the fact that SB's vote on me came after I voted him for awful logic [Which not only I pointed out]. He then voted for basically for my reaction to his awful logic. That IS the definition of OMGUS
Apply what happened with two players that are neither SB or me to SB and me. This logic is therefor invalid.

If you actually read my D2 flip-flopping I say very frequently that I am alright with lynching either party.

In addition; I am happy to lynch today because it is certain that one of you or BT are scum. It's that simple.  I'm happy to put you at L-1 because I know Dorian won't hammer; and I know Dan won't hammer; and I know you won't selfhammer.

You say my role is less trustworthy than BT's? I say the opposite. Firstly BT's claimed role hasn't actually done anything at all yet. He claims he was jailed N1 and he got nothing at all N2. Watcher and even Voyuer seems a little strong in this setup as well; especially with SB being a vanillaiser; if he targeted Dan on an Even night or whoever Dan was watching on an Odd night he would be screwed. And that's assuming he also didn't target whoever Valtz was blocking. There seems to be too many ways to screw over scum. Even if Valtz was still alive if I roleblocked that wouldn't be a checkmate situation. I could have roleblocked the guy Valtz blocked; or the guy Valtz jailed could have been the kill target and so on.

Plus the fact that I actually have a role PM saying I'm a 1-shot roleblocker; makes me a lot more confident in the existance of my role than BT's.

---

Also don't kick up a stink about you posting more often than BT. Your posts had no content. BT's did.

And it's nice to see you actually doing something relevant at last when you are panicking about the noose. Typical scum reaction.

[Raikaria]

If you actually read my D2 flip-flopping I say very frequently that I am alright with lynching either party.

To elaborate: I was confident one of SB and Dorian were scum; and the other was town. The flip of either would confirm one scum and possibly give us interaction-based hints towards a second.

And as for your 'I didn't do anything because no-one's online when I do things' that dosen't explain why you never really said much or made a real case about anything D2.

Also; Dorian; can we have Raitaki's opinion on things as well?

Further;

Raikaria claimed he is a 1-shot roleblocker.  BT claimed he was roleblocked night 1.  BT made his claim last, and added that he was roleblocked night 1 after the 1 shot roleblocker was announced. 

However...it's likely that mafia have a roleblocker.  It's easy for a mafia player to fake a 1 shot roleblock. 

What's more likely?  BT lied about being roleblocked (so he didn't have to produce a result) or Raikaria lied about his role?  Or that both are telling the truth (and therefore, scum Dorian?)

I give you your answer to this:
BT was allegedly Jailed. I certainly did not roleblock BT.

Admittedly we can't prove BT was jailed and not a Vanilla; but still. There's your explanation.

[Sky_Paladin]

Short one for now, longer one when I get back --

In addition; I am happy to lynch today because it is certain that one of you or BT are scum.

Except it's not BT or I.  It's (Dorian or Sky) or (BT or Raikaria) based on claims.  We know this because one player in those sets is lying; if you cross-lynch and guess wrong, we lose. 

By voting me, you are saying that you believe there are too many vanilla claims and if I am mislynched, you must lynch Doritaki, not BT.  Conversely, if we mislynched you, and you're town, we'd have to lynch BT in the next day phase. 

So I want to ask you:  Do you think we have too many vanilla claims?  In which case, leave your vote.  Or do you think we have too many town power roles?  In which case, you must vote BT. 

Also don't kick up a stink about you posting more often than BT. Your posts had no content. BT's did.

 
I was talking about you, not BT.  You post a lot but you don't say much. 

If you actually read my D2 flip-flopping I say very frequently that I am alright with lynching either party.

This is strategically unsound.  You must pick a set and lynch within it. 

that dosen't explain why you never really said much or made a real case about anything D2.

I sheeped Vhaltz, upgraded my vote to a case after seeing Dorian's reaction, then agreed with Dan's case on SB and switched my vote.  I wasn't in the game day 1 and I was in hospital for the first half of day 2. 

You're happy to vote for either BT or myself but you're voting me because BT told you not to lynch him.  What's your real motivation for voting me?

[Raikaria]

I'm not voting based on role speculation.

I'm basing my votes off who is clear and who is not.

Dorian is clear because of how much SB tried to lynch him and how much Raitaki and Dorian tried to lynch SB. Unless you are saying that they were bussing each other from the very start of Day 1; Dorian is not scum.

Dan is CONFIRMED TOWN. He claims SB vanilla'ed him and no-one is C.C'ing his initial role.

This leaves only you and BT. I don't need rolespec and setup speculation; which so frequently falls flat on it's face; to figure this out. The scum is either BT or you. Considering Dan and Dorian in this equations at all is folly.

[Raikaria]

Dan is CONFIRMED TOWN. He claims SB vanilla'ed him and no-one is C.C'ing his initial role.

And Valtz confirmed Dan's initial role existed as well.

[Raikaria]

And how is it strategically unsound to go with whichever of two lynches which will either lynch or confirm a scum has more possibility to actually happen? I'd call that a very sound strategy. We had an open mislynch and there was a situation where I was very confident one of two people was scum; but no way to find out which was which besides analysis of their posts and... well... the flip.

Seeing as I was of that opinion; going with whichever of the pair had more momentum to be lynched is perfectly fine. If SB was town I'd be voting Dorian right now and pushing really hard for it.

I've been pretty conservative with my pushing this game becau

[Raikaria]

I've been pretty conservative with my pushing this game because I've never been 100% sure which of the two people I narrow things down to is scum.

My post decided to post halfway through. :/