Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 -13F (Read 213921 times)

Dodging_Rain · « **Reply #60 on:** June 16, 2014, 02:51:37 PM »

I stilll use Renko's charge even with Byakuren on the field because

Spoiler:

and strengthened Ame-no-Murakumo has a minion with a skill that will dispel your buffs (including Overheat) until I eliminate it first (which are the times when I use Renko as enhancers) but against anything else I just need a charge for the initial phase to hand buffs to Byakuren to pass around which leaves Renko open for other tasks, plus a fully buffed Nitori with herb of excitement and stacks of overheat is scary. Admittedly I still have Renko as enhancer but I will see if I can move her to pharmacist later on although it may not be the case if there are more dispel users in future contents.

I been trying to give Maribel a bit of a chance though and see how she turns out though the delay for her Chaotic Quadruple Barrier is hindering (not sure the damage formula for it is like) and Overflowing Unnatural Power is too risky, not to mention Renko can give 83% of this at a much lower risk (and to the whole party to boot). That being said, her Liberated Ability actually feels reliable for an-all purpose attack and Home Barrier is pretty nice hybrid of a heal and mini damage boost for the party. As you mention indirectly, Maribel is so eh is because no one really invested in her due to her coming in very late into the game, that and you probably established your chosen high tier characters like Byakuren, Yuuka, Nitori, etc.

Serela · « **Reply #61 on:** June 16, 2014, 05:24:48 PM »

I did say that Charge is still useful even with Byakuren around! Just that you wouldn't likely spend mp on the guardian's def/mnd skill over the other options outside of rare weird cases, further making it really not worth the subclass slot.

Quote

Maribel is so eh is because no one really invested in her due to her coming in very late into the game

That's not it- I invested a little extra into her stats compared to my main party and gave her good equipment, even though that's hard because there's a lot less good MAG equipment around. She just doesn't do much damage (on bosses) and the versatility of another multiheal, a strong self-buff, and her passives only just manage to keep her in the decent range. Even when the boss is significantly buffed she isn't very special, unless it's got a scary-high buff on it's atk/mag and you gave her enough good defensive gear.

Chaotic Quadruple Barrier's status effects make it alright but how often do you try to hit bosses with SHK or DTH? It was the only DTH I had for the Wind Crystal though, so that was nice, also I found that vulnerability by complete chance and it's amazingly lucky since that was probably like the only time I'd have ever cast that skill on it.

Dodging_Rain · « **Reply #62 on:** June 16, 2014, 06:56:38 PM »

Protip: Don't start making comprehensive analysis early in the morning. I missed quite a lot of stuff that you repied with. My apologies.

Hawk · « **Reply #63 on:** June 16, 2014, 07:45:52 PM »

Quote from: Serela on June 16, 2014, 05:24:48 PM

Chaotic Quadruple Barrier's status effects make it alright but how often do you try to hit bosses with SHK or DTH? It was the only DTH I had for the Wind Crystal though, so that was nice, also I found that vulnerability by complete chance and it's amazingly lucky since that was probably like the only time I'd have ever cast that skill on it.

Yeah I fought that battle with Komachi, and Avici'd the wind crystal to death. I was super confused. "Where did it go? There was a wind crystal, right? I...there's no way I did enough damage already. Whaaaaaa"

Sungho · « **Reply #64 on:** June 16, 2014, 08:23:23 PM »

I once DTH'd the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. Along with Reisen's skills.
The extra Heishishorinken really helped a lot afterwards.

Axel Ryman · « **Reply #65 on:** June 16, 2014, 09:20:46 PM »

Quote from: Sungho on June 16, 2014, 08:23:23 PM

I once DTH'd the 12F Ame-no-Murakumo with Yuyuko's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. Along with Reisen's skills.
The extra Heishishorinken really helped a lot afterwards.

Sad thing is I might attempt to do this for those 2 items.....

ZXNova · « **Reply #66 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:14:06 PM »

I insta death'd Strengthened Nut Eater and Yellow Wasp cause Yellow Wasp is very annoying and nut eater was a complete accident.
Maybe I should insta death ama no murakumo so that I can farm up gems a lot quicker. I'm able to kill him at 2nd phase, but I wanna kill him even faster.

And a friend of mine recommended me insta deathing Giant Blue Oni cause it's Satan.

Dodging_Rain · « **Reply #67 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:17:36 PM »

Quote from: ZXNova on June 16, 2014, 10:14:06 PM

I insta death'd Strengthened Nut Eater and Yellow Wasp cause Yellow Wasp is very annoying and nut eater was a complete accident.
Maybe I should insta death ama no murakumo so that I can farm up gems a lot quicker. I'm able to kill him at 2nd phase, but I wanna kill him even faster.

And a friend of mine recommended me insta deathing Giant Blue Oni cause it's Satan.

Most of the time take for farming is going through the ending each time and I think it is entirely possible ot just gungho him at first form with double Nitori nuke with Aya and Yukari. Even then, his transformation only heals him 50% of his HP.

Serela · « **Reply #68 on:** June 16, 2014, 11:09:24 PM »

Double Gambler Flan nuke would be even faster than Nitori. I think.

Or you could just use Rinnosuke to speedswitch them in/out. Or just add that to the list.

The Paralyzing Wasp and the Nut Eater don't have star death resist, I don't know how realistic it is to land DTH with Reisen+Yuyuko on actual star resist bosses. If it worked on the 12f murakamo it must be -possible-, but, whether it's realistic is another matter. Although it's also a decent question to use Toxicologist with Arm Twisting in addition to Reisen, it's skill has a low success rate instead of Yuyuko Nirvana craziness, so that very well may not be worth it.

ZXNova · « **Reply #69 on:** June 16, 2014, 11:38:35 PM »

Quote from: Serela on June 16, 2014, 11:09:24 PM

Double Gambler Flan nuke would be even faster than Nitori. I think.

Or you could just use Rinnosuke to speedswitch them in/out. Or just add that to the list.

The Paralyzing Wasp and the Nut Eater don't have star death resist, I don't know how realistic it is to land DTH with Reisen+Yuyuko on actual star resist bosses. If it worked on the 12f murakamo it must be -possible-, but, whether it's realistic is another matter. Although it's also a decent question to use Toxicologist with Arm Twisting in addition to Reisen, it's skill has a low success rate instead of Yuyuko Nirvana craziness, so that very well may not be worth it.

I think you're meaning Green Wasp, that's paralyzing Wasp. Poison Yellow Wasp had Star DTH resist and I killed it quite quickly.

Serela · « **Reply #70 on:** June 17, 2014, 01:48:00 AM »

Quote from: ZXNova on June 16, 2014, 11:38:35 PM

I think you're meaning Green Wasp, that's paralyzing Wasp. Poison Yellow Wasp had Star DTH resist and I killed it quite quickly.

I looked up the bestiary again since I never paid attention to the colors. Green is the Poison Wasp. Yellow is the Paralyzing one. You got the one that doesn't have star death resist.

ZXNova · « **Reply #71 on:** June 17, 2014, 02:08:20 AM »

Ooops, I'm sorry. I gotta really confused. The Green Wasp was the first encountered wasp right? That's the I instakilled. The 2nd encountered one is the one I didn't insta kill. And that was the poison one. Sorry about the confusion, I got mixed up.

Garlyle · « **Reply #72 on:** June 17, 2014, 04:38:10 AM »

Speaking of status resistance, is it just my imagination or do a lot of bosses seem a lot harder to land Wriggle's poison on in 2 than 1? I'm not sure if it's that poison resistance is more common (in LoT1 there was like, what, one or two bosses that had any through the main game?) or if Wriggle's skills just have a lower poison infliction rate this time or what.

Hawk · « **Reply #73 on:** June 17, 2014, 04:40:40 AM »

So, I cheated a new game up to postgame in about 2 hours so I could do some save file analysis.

For whatever reason, it looks like Renko herself is the problem? For all the other characters, there's a distinction between "acquiring through starting an NG+ with all the characters" and "acquiring through their normal events". So even though I start with Minoriko, I still have to "revive" Minoriko to pass by the rock on 5F.

However, for Renko, this seems to not be correctly implemented. It looks like the game does in fact believe I have truly acquired Renko from the start of the game. And it also seems that it will not spawn any of the deformed bosses if Renko is in your party.

This is fixable, to an extent, by doing two things:

1. Removing Renko from your party via PCF01.ngd (set byte 0x2F to 0).
2. Setting offset 0x64A in EVF01.ngd to 1. Or, possibly, clearing the second bit (b & 11111101).
3. It'd be easy to remove the achievements, but I don't know the numbers.

There may be a solution that doesn't require Renko's removal, but I haven't found it. And, in fact, based on the fact that I've never seen anyone else report this issue means it may be more of an edge case than I thought.

Either way, I'm archiving my results here just in case anyone else has this problem.

Kirin no Sora · « **Reply #74 on:** June 17, 2014, 09:18:10 AM »

Got a few questions for everyone here...

1. Yukari's Spiriting Away spellcard says that it reduces the cost of the spell when it's leveled up. What's the cost of the spellcard when it is at maximum level?

2. Maribel's "Homemade Novice Barrier" spell heals others when it's leveled up. Does this make it qualify for the subclass skill "Heart of Compassion"?

3. Does the Pharmacologist's "Incense Treatment" affect all debuffs on an ally or just one of them? If it's just one of them, does that change from leveling it up? Also, as a sidenote, I do believe that the effect that this spell gives is roughly the unique effect that Mystia's Mysterious Song had in the first game, so there's that.

And that's all for now...

Garlyle · « **Reply #75 on:** June 17, 2014, 11:24:49 AM »

Oh my god the 9F boss is stupid. so stupid wow that was a fight ~~found a use for Satori tho~~

Also I glanced over recruit conditions and goddamn that's a lot of battle point requirements :<

Axel Ryman · « **Reply #76 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:06:36 PM »

Quote from: Garlyle on June 17, 2014, 11:24:49 AM

Oh my god the 9F boss is stupid. so stupid wow that was a fight ~~found a use for Satori tho~~

Also I glanced over recruit conditions and goddamn that's a lot of battle point requirements :<

You get them easily this time around, and you don't need Cheat Engine to see how many you have either.

Garlyle · « **Reply #77 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:23:28 PM »

Quote from: Axel Ryman on June 17, 2014, 12:06:36 PM

You get them easily this time around, and you don't need Cheat Engine to see how many you have either.

Wait, there's a way to check it? Where?

I can't find anything on the wiki about any changes to how they're gathered or anything, but I broke the 1000 BP achievement with <500 battles so the method must have changed, I just don't know the details. EDIT: Found that, still don't know how to check in-game though >:

Axel Ryman · « **Reply #78 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:30:12 PM »

Go to Status and press Z.

Doing a quick check, your frontline members get 1 when a battle starts, and 2 when a battle ends. Everyone in the backline gets 1 at the end of battle. So you can get up to 3 per battle.

Garlyle · « **Reply #79 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:34:53 PM »

Quote from: Axel Ryman on June 17, 2014, 12:30:12 PM

Go to Status and press Z.

Oh hey, there is another screen there!

~~Go figure, almost all the characters that need BP with are characters I wasn't using~~

Thank you kindly ALSO you mentioned when we were chatting at the FJF match that you were working on a speedrun for LoT2, or at least routing it; anywhere you've got notes or videos or a twitch I can follow?

Axel Ryman · « **Reply #80 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:47:56 PM »

Pastebin with Current Notes (Needs updating for strategies and setups, which I haven't bothered doing just yet since I need to go back to my save files for this)
http://pastebin.com/FAPgd028

Pastebin with possible Skill/Class choices (Needs heavy updating when I remember it)
http://pastebin.com/7Dcw1eZW

Komachi to Hina fight
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/528604353

Post-Hina to Iku
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/529480687

Actual Iku prep and Iku again.
http://www.twitch.tv/axelryman/b/529794933

It's currently on hold now due to 4JF, but chances are if I start getting burnt out with it I might do a bit more inbetween.

Garlyle · « **Reply #81 on:** June 17, 2014, 12:59:41 PM »

Sweet, I'm bored at work (but too busy to focus on playing), so yay reading material and watching material when I get home +_+

Serela · « **Reply #82 on:** June 17, 2014, 01:52:01 PM »

Quote from: Kirin no Sora on June 17, 2014, 09:18:10 AM

1. Yukari's Spiriting Away spellcard says that it reduces the cost of the spell when it's leveled up. What's the cost of the spellcard when it is at maximum level?
It goes down by 1 per level when you level it up. I think it's 30 mp at max?
2. Maribel's "Homemade Novice Barrier" spell heals others when it's leveled up. Does this make it qualify for the subclass skill "Heart of Compassion"?
I haven't tested it, but, it SHOULD actually qualify for all of the Enhancer's passives, amusingly. I'm not sure this is actually all that useful considering who you should also have at endgame, but given Mari's boss usefulness is meh outside of self-buffers you might be using her as a backup MT healer anyway.
3. Does the Pharmacologist's "Incense Treatment" affect all debuffs on an ally or just one of them? If it's just one of them, does that change from leveling it up? Also, as a sidenote, I do believe that the effect that this spell gives is roughly the unique effect that Mystia's Mysterious Song had in the first game, so there's that.
I'm pretty sure it affects all debuffs, and no, it doesn't change when you level it up. Instead it has an extreme cost and delay at lv1, and 5 skillpoint cost to level instead of 3. It's practically never worth it IMO; maybe if you were using Hina's universal debuff, but that sounds like a pain, and debuff resistance+decay would make it hard to get a half-decent return... Also, man, that Mystia skill was so useless since by the time you got her, all non-glass-cannons on your team should be immune to everything. I guess there's NG+ though!

answers in bold

Kirin no Sora · « **Reply #83 on:** June 17, 2014, 03:02:32 PM »

About the answer that you gave towards my last question...

Given that the only other skill that's 5 per level among the subclasses in terms of spells is "Magic Transfer", then I would think that you would be right...

As a thought to that, maybe they should modify it so that the equation for it equals this...

Debuff : D
Buff : B
Equation: B = D + (SLv * 10)% of D

Sorry that I'm running Algebra here, but my brain's too tired to form proper words for this...

ZXNova · « **Reply #84 on:** June 17, 2014, 07:57:40 PM »

Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?

Jq1790 · « **Reply #85 on:** June 17, 2014, 08:32:42 PM »

Quote from: ZXNova on June 17, 2014, 07:57:40 PM

Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?

It's the name of Eirin's Last Spell in Final A in Imperishable Night.

The Hourai Elixir is infact the immortality elixir(it's how Mokou's immortal), and in Touhou's canon, Eirin was its creator IIRC.

It's a healing spell that can increase HP beyond normal limits, sort of like how the actual Elixir increases lifespans.

Kuilfrayt · « **Reply #86 on:** June 17, 2014, 09:36:37 PM »

Quote from: ZXNova on June 17, 2014, 07:57:40 PM

Is there any benefit to leveling up Eirin's Hourai Elixir? Also, why is it called Hourai Elixir? I'm guessing it's just the name of the medicine, but it isn't actually the "Elixir of Immortality" kind of thing?

It doesn't seem to have any benefit from leveling, for some reason. No reduction in MP cost, the post-use gauge doesn't change, and the healing doesn't change either.
As for Hourai Elixir, it is named after Mt Penglai (Hourai in japanese mythology), that was said to be a place where immortals lived. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Penglai

ZXNova · « **Reply #87 on:** June 17, 2014, 11:58:59 PM »

I already know what the hourai elixir is, I'm just saying it couldn't be the actual hourai elixir that she, kaguya, and mokou drank cause why would she do that?

Serela · « **Reply #88 on:** June 18, 2014, 12:46:23 AM »

It's only a fangame, so I wouldn't think about it too hard. You can assume it's just a flavor name and it isn't truly the Hourai Elixir, though, yeah. She does have a spellcard named Hourai Elixir, after all.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #89 on:** June 18, 2014, 01:10:47 AM »

I'm not into lore too much but I thought kaggy was immortal WITHOUT the elixir, and her powers were somehow used to make the elixir?