Author Topic: Miscellaneous Questions 5: Ask Question, Receive Answer (Read 220055 times)

Drake · « **Reply #960 on:** August 08, 2015, 01:58:37 AM »

Same here, EoSD' "Scarlet" vs SWR "Scarlet" bugs me a bit, but both are used in official titles so there's no helping that.

I also think "Heaven of Scarlet Perception" works better for music titles. The "Scarlet Perception Heaven" order I was suggesting only for the game title rubytext, where the kanji order is relevant.

Drake · « **Reply #961 on:** August 08, 2015, 08:31:14 AM »

I was just reminded of something I was supposed to connect before but never did.

So, I think it's pretty well-established at this point that Eirin is supposed to be Omoikane. In CiLR 1, Eirin explains that the Watatsuki sisters are distant relatives of hers; "one was the wife of a grandnephew of mine, while the other was married to the son of another grandnephew". I had always meant to explicitly connect the dots here.

First of all, I'm going to change this translation since it isn't "another" grandnephew, it's the same guy. With the clean assumption that Toyohime and Yorihime are supposed to be Toyotamahime and Tamayorihime respectively, it's actually that this "grandnephew" is Hoori. Hoori married Toyotamahime, and they had a child (Ugayafukiaezu) who later married Tamayorihime, which fits the above narrative.

Hoori is the son of Ninigi and Konohanasakuyahime (who you may also know as the one who cut Yatsugatake). Konohanasakuyahime is herself descended from Ooyamatsumi, who apparently came from Izanagi before his cleansing (which spawned Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo, among many others). Ninigi on the other hand came from Amenooshihomimi and Yorozuhatahime. Amenooshihomimi came from Amaterasu, which as said above came from Izanagi. Yorozuhatahime came from Takamimusuhi, who is one of the three kami of creation. It's extra confusing since Takamimusuhi did some stuff, then left existence and reappeared generations later to have Yorozuhatahime -- but before they "hid", they created Omoikane. So to follow all this back down, Omoikane is a sibling of Yorozuhatahime, whose child is Ninigi, whose child is Hoori, who married Toyotamahime.

So essentially what Eirin did with this quote is further confirm her identity (along with the Watatsukis), but also troll a whole lot because the Shinto kami genealogy is convoluted as fuck and there were a ton of other ways she could have stated their relationship.

CyberAngel · « **Reply #962 on:** August 08, 2015, 10:33:38 AM »

...So the sisters are their own in-laws. And these inbreeders are supposed to be "pure"? (I know things like that aren't included in kegare, but still...)

Prime32 · « **Reply #963 on:** August 08, 2015, 01:54:52 PM »

Quote from: CyberAngel on August 08, 2015, 10:33:38 AM

...So the sisters are their own in-laws. And these inbreeders are supposed to be "pure"? (I know things like that aren't included in kegare, but still...)

Zeus married his own sister. It's a god thing.

gilde · « **Reply #964 on:** August 10, 2015, 11:59:31 PM »

I recently stumbled across a collection of royalty-free yuzen patterns. ZUN uses tons of pattern collections like this to begin with, so it's not surprising that the pattern on the front cover is the one used for LoLK's CD case. I would guess there's more patterns in there that he's used besides the cover one, too.

But, uh, upon looking at the book's web preview... it turned out that there's fine print saying "no commercial use of any kind" in the back pages. Should this be cause for concern? I mean, it's entirely possible that ZUN just bought a usage license or something and there's no problem, but...

edit: then again there's no guarantee the pattern in question is even unique to this book, so

Uruwi · « **Reply #965 on:** August 11, 2015, 03:42:26 AM »

Quote from: gilde on August 10, 2015, 11:59:31 PM

I recently stumbled across a collection of royalty-free yuzen patterns. ZUN uses tons of pattern collections like this to begin with, so it's not surprising that the pattern on the front cover is the one used for LoLK's CD case. I would guess there's more patterns in there that he's used besides the cover one, too.

But, uh, upon looking at the book's web preview... it turned out that there's fine print saying "no commercial use of any kind" in the back pages. Should this be cause for concern? I mean, it's entirely possible that ZUN just bought a usage license or something and there's no problem, but...

edit: then again there's no guarantee the pattern in question is even unique to this book, so

I'm sure doujin works generally aren't considered commercial, even when they're sold for a price.

game2011 · « **Reply #966 on:** August 11, 2015, 04:21:08 AM »

What does the "MG" seen when talking to Ringo means?

Thanks in advance!

gilde · « **Reply #967 on:** August 11, 2015, 04:24:54 AM »

Quote from: Fluffy8x on August 11, 2015, 03:42:26 AM

I'm sure doujin works generally aren't considered commercial, even when they're sold for a price.

Oh, right. Duh. Don't know why I didn't remember that.

Quote from: game2011 on August 11, 2015, 04:21:08 AM

What does the "MG" seen when talking to Ringo means?

Thanks in advance!

Shorthand for the onomatopoeia 'mogu mogu', which is pretty much the Japanese equivalent of 'om nom'.

edit: vvv Yyyyeah, that. I tried to avoid directly calling attention to it since, like you said, it's definitely someone trying to stir shit up, but oh well :V

Drake · « **Reply #968 on:** August 11, 2015, 05:10:12 AM »

There's a stink being risen about this; I don't think it's cut and dry.
Here's the relevant text I'm sure you're talking about, but the author's tone is definitely one that's intending to stir up shit. Somebody in the comments wrote:

Quote

「誠実に対応することを望みます」なのに、なんで権利者側は問い合わせるのに、使用者側には一切問い合わせないで憶測を垂れ流すんだろう？事態の解決より炎上が目的に見える

Which is basically "you claim to want an honest dialogue but instead you contacted only the rights-holder and not ZUN, while you publicize all this; your goal instead seems to be to bat flames and make wild speculations". Many other commenters agree the author seems inappropriately self-important throughout, parading their own sense of justice.

Additionally they assume that all of ZUN's materials using these sorts of patterns are from this book when that is demonstrably not the case. In other words, don't bother paying much attention to this, it's pretty much junk unless something more formal actually comes of it, and it isn't worth pointing at.

EDIT: oops my bad

godsend · « **Reply #969 on:** August 14, 2015, 05:26:32 AM »

Good evening all.

Tonight I would like to bring to your attention a question which has been troubling me as of late.

Well, then, let's get to it,

The scenario is that a modern day human manages to wander into Gensokyo through a weak point in the Great Hakurei Barrier. He has no prior knowledge of anything relating to Touhou, he is human but unaffiliated with the human village. Would they be able to befriend the denizens of Gensokyo? Would they be able to integrate themselves into the various groups within Gensokyo?

Would they be able to help out around the Scarlet Devil Mansion, helping Patchy keep the library organized, helping the gatekeeper pass the time, aiding Sakuya with the chores, and perhaps even donating some blood for the Scarlet Sisters to be able to enjoy a meal that is more palatable to them? Would they be able to visit the Netherworld, to see to it that Yuyuko and Youmu are fairing well? Visit the Underworld to show the Komeiji sisters that not all humans would shun/fear them for their powers? Visit Eintei for an audience with her highness? Help Alice with spring cleaning? Donate to the Hakurei Shrine? Share a drink with the Oni? Attempt to show Medicine Melancholy that there are good humans out there? Maybe even get lucky enough to hold an audience with the almighty Yukari-Sama? Do this to and that as well and all these other wonderful things

... Or would they make for an easy snack for a hungry Youkai?

tl;dr - is it dumb to think that Gensokyo would be this marvelous place when in reality I would be hated there as well and probably killed?

Mеа · « **Reply #970 on:** August 14, 2015, 05:37:48 PM »

Quote from: CyberAngel on August 08, 2015, 10:33:38 AM

...So the sisters are their own in-laws. And these inbreeders are supposed to be "pure"? (I know things like that aren't included in kegare, but still...)

Wasn't inbreeding a common practice among the nobility and royalty to keep the blood pure? Not sure what the Asian countries thought about royal blood purity. Seeing as the conception of new gods seem to be more of a ceremonial purpose rather than actually having offspring via genes, might not be a problem.

Sagus · « **Reply #971 on:** August 15, 2015, 03:08:35 AM »

Quote from: godsend on August 14, 2015, 05:26:32 AM

Good evening all.

[...]

Akyuu says that humans that fall into Gensokyo from the Outside World and manage to reach the Human Village can settle there if they want, though most prefer to go back home (which is possible by going to the Hakurei Shrine). She also mentions that outside world humans are valued for the knowledge they have of places beyond Gensokyo, so it seems that they are well treated there.

Differently from the humans from the village, though, youkai are apparently free to kill them with no repercussions (going by the fact that Akyuu says that this is the fate of most outsiders). So unless they are a very charming individual that can convince a human-eating monster to not devour them, they'd be better off going back to the outside world or never leaving the village.

game2011 · « **Reply #972 on:** August 15, 2015, 08:22:39 AM »

Is there a reason why English speakers don't call Eientei "House of Eternity," Hakugyokurou "Tower of White Jade," and Makai "Demon World (and maybe some other locations)?" I don't see people calling the Scarlet Devil Mansion by its Japanese name "Koumakan," so why do people stick to Japanese names for the others?

I'm thinking of wanting to call them by their English names from now on.

Thanks in advance!

Drake · « **Reply #973 on:** August 15, 2015, 09:33:14 AM »

It's a case-by-case basis. The tendency is to not translate place names that are formal titles, or are terms that have extra meaning, or who would lose meaning in translation. Meanwhile places whose names are merely descriptions are translated, unless the translation would become ambiguous or are too tricky.

For example, Muenzuka is called Muenzuka because it's an actual term for graves of those who have nobody to visit them and mourn. Makai is kept Makai because although it might as well just be a description, translating it as something like "Demon World" could invite future ambiguity. At some point we used to call Makai "Hell" but also call Jigoku "Hell", plus we have a handful of more "Hell"s now, plus Hokkai inside of Makai. Relatedly, calling Tenkai "Heaven" is only feasible because Tenkai is already a collection of many places, so it's appropriate.

Kourindou and Suzunaan are formal titles, and Eientei is usually (but arguably) seen as a title as well. Meanwhile Koumakan is generally thought of as a description but also kind of a title, so it's like "the Scarlet Devil's Mansion" title-ized into Scarlet Devil Mansion.

Hakugyokurou in particular has significance for being a legendary place where famous poets and writers are whisked away to when they die. The name was chosen due to it residing in the Netherworld, and also due to the story of the Saigyou Ayakashi. Notice how it isn't actually a tower.

game2011 · « **Reply #974 on:** August 16, 2015, 04:48:18 PM »

Quote from: Drake on August 15, 2015, 09:33:14 AM

Makai is kept Makai because although it might as well just be a description, translating it as something like "Demon World" could invite future ambiguity.

Makai is translated/localized as "Demon World" in certain medias, like Disgaea.

Maple · « **Reply #975 on:** August 16, 2015, 06:53:48 PM »

With LoLK, we now have Th14 -> 14.3 -> 14.5 -> 15.
Has ZUN said something about this numeration, considering we already have Th12 -> 12.3 -> 12.5 -> 12.8 -> 13?

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #976 on:** August 16, 2015, 07:49:02 PM »

No, but here's a hint: Not everyone is obsessed with patterns and numbers.

Tengukami · « **Reply #977 on:** August 16, 2015, 08:35:27 PM »

Got a question about the wiki. Is it typical for a game's wiki page's English Patch entry to lead to an incomplete/in progress patch, despite the text saying that "complete translations" are available at the link? Referring to LoLK in particular. I realize it takes time to make a patch, but shouldn't a claim like "click here for a complete translated patch" wait until the patch is actually done?

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #978 on:** August 16, 2015, 10:44:49 PM »

That was referring to the translation status of the trial version, it's just that people forgot about that part of the article after the game was released. You're more than welcome to correct any obvious errors you see in the wiki.

Tengukami · « **Reply #979 on:** August 16, 2015, 10:57:25 PM »

Good to know! Was just curious on protocol, and your explanation makes sense.

godsend · « **Reply #980 on:** August 17, 2015, 03:24:43 AM »

Quote from: Sagus on August 15, 2015, 03:08:35 AM

Akyuu says that humans that fall into Gensokyo from the Outside World and manage to reach the Human Village can settle there if they want, though most prefer to go back home (which is possible by going to the Hakurei Shrine). She also mentions that outside world humans are valued for the knowledge they have of places beyond Gensokyo, so it seems that they are well treated there.

Differently from the humans from the village, though, youkai are apparently free to kill them with no repercussions (going by the fact that Akyuu says that this is the fate of most outsiders). So unless they are a very charming individual that can convince a human-eating monster to not devour them, they'd be better off going back to the outside world or never leaving the village.

Hm... I can live with that. Thank you kindly ^^

Shiina Tamai · « **Reply #981 on:** August 17, 2015, 08:07:12 PM »

Is there an official soundtrack for Memories of Phantasm? I like their rendition of Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial, Locked Girl ~ The Girl's Secret Room and The Maid and the Pocket Watch of Blood.

gilde · « **Reply #982 on:** August 17, 2015, 10:56:21 PM »

Since this thread's been used to field wiki-related translation questions as of late, I was wondering if anyone could give their thoughts on a small issue? It's, like, hair-splitting level, but nonetheless: Should terms like "Lunar Capital" and "Human Village" be capitalized or not? I figured it'd be okay since they're practically used as formal titles already, and since the locations in question are the lunar capital and the human village (it's not as if there's any others around) but apparently this is not a universal opinion.

Lollipop · « **Reply #983 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:05:08 PM »

Why is Reimu sometimes portrayed as a starving shrine maiden? She's stopped major dilemmas, but everyone is like 'We're not recognizing your efforts to keep Gensokyo safe'

ふねん1 · « **Reply #984 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:39:38 PM »

Because fandoms love to exaggerate characters, basically.

More serious answer, she doesn't get very good publicity among Gensokyo's human population, and thus not many donations, because youkai tend to hang out at her shrine. However, she is still able to maintain the shrine (and herself) at least at a basic level, different from what the fanon portrays.

PK · « **Reply #985 on:** August 17, 2015, 11:49:41 PM »

She was actively doing some jobs in FS and WaHH though (fortune-telling, youkai-fox hunting), plus there are various festivals like the one where she almost got the shrine burned down. I'm sure she gets decent money for those things.

Sagus · « **Reply #986 on:** August 18, 2015, 01:01:43 AM »

Also, Yukari was once shown sneakily dropping money in the shrine's donation box (it was in one of the Three Fairies manga, don't remember which), so it's likely that even if she didn't make any money, Yukari wouldn't let her starve.

Starxsword · « **Reply #987 on:** August 18, 2015, 02:29:48 AM »

Quote

I figured it'd be okay since they're practically used as formal titles already, and since the locations in question are the lunar capital and the human village (it's not as if there's any others around) but apparently this is not a universal opinion.

They aren't titles, so I would say no.

Drake · « **Reply #988 on:** August 18, 2015, 04:25:13 AM »

Quote from: gilde on August 17, 2015, 10:56:21 PM

Since this thread's been used to field wiki-related translation questions as of late, I was wondering if anyone could give their thoughts on a small issue? It's, like, hair-splitting level, but nonetheless: Should terms like "Lunar Capital" and "Human Village" be capitalized or not? I figured it'd be okay since they're practically used as formal titles already, and since the locations in question are the lunar capital and the human village (it's not as if there's any others around) but apparently this is not a universal opinion.

I've always taken care to try and capitalize because I think they probably should be, similarly to the Forest of Magic, but obviously not everyone is going to bother capitalizing in all instances. Basically every location's name in Touhou is used as a title though (exceptions being like "Marisa's house"); I don't see why these would be any different. Lunar Capital is probably a slightly stronger case than Human Village, since otherwise we probably wouldn't call it "Lunar Capital" at all but rather something like the Moon's capital.

Quote from: game2011 on August 16, 2015, 04:48:18 PM

Makai is translated/localized as "Demon World" in certain medias, like Disgaea.

Sure, but Disgaea also revolves around "Demons", so that name is apt. We don't even have much of a reason to call anything from Makai "demon" besides a stage title using "devil" and ZUN using the term 魔物 in the prologue (and then never again). And that was back in PC98 when ZUN used several different terms for enemies (人間でない何か, 妖怪, 悪霊, 悪魔, 化け物, etc) -- we have no such things in the Windows series' use of Makai. Makai seems to be about magic ("魔法") more than anything else in both MS and UFO. I don't really have a problem with calling it Demon World, but there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to at this point, especially when we have Hokkai in it too.

TresserT · « **Reply #989 on:** August 18, 2015, 12:23:22 PM »

Are all the "classic" Japanese gods Lunarians? If not, is there a location analogous the Japanese "heaven" (as in, the dwelling place of the gods)?

I ask because several stories talk about heaven sending various characters to Earth, such as Ninigi, Kirin, or the Yatagarasu. So if the moon is touhou's version of heaven, that would mean Lunarians send these characters which seems odd to me.