Author Topic: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)  (Read 54563 times)

Nolegs the Cat

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Quote
I... don't know what Momohime's first spell is like on Hard - I know it's different on Normal mode though.  Lunatic puts you in the middle of a circle where Momo shoots green orbs from the center while stars come in at all kinds of angles from the edges; Normal has heartwalls closing in from the sides.

It's similar. You're in a large circle where Momo shoots red orbs that are aimed at you (but only the one aimed directly at you has a chance of hitting you) while grey hearts spawn in large circles from the outside that all fly in one direction. However, even with 60 FPS they'd be pretty slow and they're entirely predictable, and they're not terribly dense most of the time. It'd probably be a 90-95% capture rate with the game's lag issues, probably a 50%-70% without it.
I've done the normal version, honestly I'd say that's harder.



Also, brofists.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 07:26:18 AM by Nolegs the Cat »

SirChaotick

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Hold the Bomb Button for a few moments while the Hyper Gauge is full. You must have at least one bomb in stock to do so. Bombs and Life Fragments are worth the double while on Hyper mode.
Oh. Well. I was not aware there was such a thing as Hyper. That should make things easier.

Nolegs the Cat

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Oh. Well. I was not aware there was such a thing as Hyper. That should make things easier.

Also, the hypers work differently depending on the shot-type. Almost learned that the hard way :V

Quote
ReimuA:  Hyper adds a horizontal array of options to shoot straight ahead.
ReimuB:   Hyper completes a triangle of options to shoot straight ahead.
ReimuC: Hyper adds two more gohei on either side of the existing one; it also greatly increases Reimu's auto-collect range to something resembling a wide triangle in front of her and a narrower triangle behind her (unless your homing shot kills it from all the way on the other side of the screen or not directly behind her, you're auto-collecting it).  Of note, this auto-collection is only applied when the enemy is destroyed; any point items you don't automatically auto-collect have to be picked up as normal.
MarisA:  Hyper adds eight more lasers that roughly converge midway up the screen when unfocused, and angle out to cover most of the screen when focused (similar to Marisa+Alice in SA).
MarisaB:  Hyper increases damage, increases the splash damage radius to cover something like half the screen in either direction, and your options will add aimed shots at enemies your main shot is targeting if they're close enough.
MarisaC: Hyper removes all but your main shot and causes your options to enlarge and rotate around you (increasing rotation speed as you hold fire), dealing damage on their own.  Focusing causes them to spread out slightly.  While you can stop firing to keep your options in one position for the joy of poking a fairy with a big orange crystal, this is not optimal as you aren't doing damage from your main shot.
(IIRC from here down)
FutoA:  A reasonable spread shot.  The hyper charges power up to thrice as you keep shooting, and when you release the shot button, Futo will unleash a laser corona according to how much charge you had.
FutoB:  when you press the shot key Tojiko will appear in front of you, fixed in position, and fire straight ahead until you release the shot key.  On hyper Tojiko will independently move toward enemies and shoot them down.
FutoC:  Futo has a wind aura around her that deals damage on its own.  When focused, Futo shoots a large wind shot in the direction opposite your movement when you focused, and keeps her wind aura in each direction except where you were going when you focused.  The hyper does the same, but includes another wind shot that homes in on enemies.  The regular wind shot will decrease enemy bullets' velocity, i.e. make them move toward you more slowly.

Also, as a note from FutoA play, something one should note:
Futo's laser from hyper charges 3 times.
The third charge grants it a decent boost, making it cover pretty much the entire screen if you use it from near the bottom. It gets a damage boost too, obviously. Not sure if it's worth using over second during bosses, but it'd have it's place during specific parts of specific stages I guess.

I have an image of it. (Made it a hyperlink to avoid bloating the already large post)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:38:49 AM by Nolegs the Cat »

bug 1- autobomb being invalid
[attach=1]
this shows players' deathbomb allowing time.
however, they forget to set the loss time.
[attach=3]
thus you use autobomb for some times, you will have no deathbomb allowing time. 


bug 2 - invisibility time loss
[attach=2]
when you get hit in hyper, you will use autobomb.
however this autobomb have little invincibility that you will be crashed by enemies.
because this invincibility (when hyper ends you will gain 120f invincibility) has covered bomb invincibility ( 420f ) .

change to "GetPlayerInvincibilityFrame+120" then you get 120 frame more invincibility.

however I know little Japanese (and English ), could anyone notify the producer about this?

?q

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Also, as a note from FutoA play, something one should note:
Futo's laser from hyper charges 3 times.
The third charge grants it a decent boost, making it cover pretty much the entire screen if you use it from near the bottom. It gets a damage boost too, obviously. Not sure if it's worth using over second during bosses, but it'd have it's place during specific parts of specific stages I guess.

I have an image of it. (Made it a hyperlink to avoid bloating the already large post)
ITT we learn I can't read code.  That's correct.

Some more information along these lines - it takes 60 frames (one second) to charge it to Lv. 1, 150 frames (total) to charge it to Lv. 2, and 300 frames (total, so five seconds) to charge it to Lv. 3.  The results are two, six, and ten lasers respectively.  The difference in power from Lv. 1 to Lv. 2 is somewhat small (20% increase) but the difference between Lv. 2 and Lv. 3 is quite a bit larger (70% increase from Lv. 2).  (Values are 0.4, 0.5, and 0.85 vs. a base shot power of 1.1 - for some reason Futo's base shot is slightly stronger than the other characters'.)

If I'm reading that right, then Futo's shot power is set.  I've put up the test results and revised the data post accordingly.

---

I wish I could tell how many HP these cards have.  rsy or whoever it was wasn't kidding about the code for this series being tough to parse.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 11:29:57 AM by ?q »

I don't know if you want to add it to the character analysis, but Futo C has a huge item collection box. I didn't really notice it until I started using Reimu and kept missing all the items. Or it could just be my subconcious making excuses for me.

Also, totally not sure, but does Reimu C's gohei change in any way when focused?

Also also, about Futo C changing bullet angles. As far as I know, the only time it changes the angle of the bullets is in stage 5 with the arching missile/suppository bullets (the ones taken from DDC). In danmakufu those arching kinds of bullets use X and Y vector values rather than angle and speed values. Futo changes a bullet's speed value and since the arching bullets don't use speed value they are incompatable, so Futo is basically replacing the arching bullet with a similar bullet that is compatable. Since the arching bullet doesn't have an angle value either the new bullet is given the default angle of 0.

Tl:dr I don't think Futo is supposed to change the bullet's angles, it's probably just a bug.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:32:18 AM by TresserT »
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reply to ?q:

Reimu C's gohei will collect all point items they "touch" , not ?destroy?.

release and then press button Z, Reimu will throw gohei ahead , thus attacking enemies on their paths.
that's how I destroy enemies behind.

The manual says :
Point items will add 50% more "最大得點" when "gauge max".

However , I found another strange thing when scoring:
Point items will drop more when you are in hyper( more than "gauge max" or usual) .

Has anyone noticed this?

edit :
our programmer has found some code to let enemies drop double  point items  when hyper.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 01:25:20 PM by rsy_type1 »

The manual says :
Point items will add 50% more "最大得點" when "gauge max".

However , I found another strange thing when scoring:
Point items will drop more when you are in hyper( more than "gauge max" or usual) .

Has anyone noticed this?

I think it means...

Gauge Max - Each point item will add 50% more score...

Hyper - Point Items will drop more often...

but nope I haven't notice it myself either...

Jaimers

  • You just did it because you're older than me.
Yeah enemies drop more point items when you are in hyper and that seems to be the main point of the scoring system as you pretty much want to be in hyper mode for most of the game.

Another aspect of this mechanic is that you can recharge your hyper by a lot if you time the end of your hyper when a lot of point items are on screen, more than you would be able to generate if you were out of hyper. Most of the optimization in this game as far as I can see is finding these instant recharge spots so that you can hyper again immediately.
As demonstrated.

The game is a lot like Deathsmiles or Dodonpachi Saidaioujou in that way.

If ReimuC autocollects point items automatically than she seems to have a big disadvantage in scoreplay as she can't insta-recharge.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 02:04:30 PM by Jaimers »

Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2014, 03:31:38 PM »
Yeah enemies drop more point items when you are in hyper and that seems to be the main point of the scoring system as you pretty much want to be in hyper mode for most of the game.

Another aspect of this mechanic is that you can recharge your hyper by a lot if you time the end of your hyper when a lot of point items are on screen, more than you would be able to generate if you were out of hyper. Most of the optimization in this game as far as I can see is finding these instant recharge spots so that you can hyper again immediately.
As demonstrated.

The game is a lot like Deathsmiles or Dodonpachi Saidaioujou in that way.

If ReimuC autocollects point items automatically than she seems to have a big disadvantage in scoreplay as she can't insta-recharge.

Great stuff, I wanna see a route built around hyper chaining now! Maybe like 30 billion is possible with that!? Did anyone try to do a scorerun yet?
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?q

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2014, 04:27:57 PM »
I don't know if you want to add it to the character analysis, but Futo C has a huge item collection box. I didn't really notice it until I started using Reimu and kept missing all the items. Or it could just be my subconcious making excuses for me.
I'll look at the code.  (on lunch break, can't test)

Quote
Also, totally not sure, but does Reimu C's gohei change in any way when focused?
I don't think so.

Quote
Also also, about Futo C changing bullet angles. As far as I know, the only time it changes the angle of the bullets is in stage 5 with the arching missile/suppository bullets (the ones taken from DDC). In danmakufu those arching kinds of bullets use X and Y vector values rather than angle and speed values. Futo changes a bullet's speed value and since the arching bullets don't use speed value they are incompatable, so Futo is basically replacing the arching bullet with a similar bullet that is compatable. Since the arching bullet doesn't have an angle value either the new bullet is given the default angle of 0.

Tl:dr I don't think Futo is supposed to change the bullet's angles, it's probably just a bug.
I noticed it near the end of Stage 1 with some of the blue pellets.  Nonetheless, it doesn't seem like it affects anything.

Quote
Another aspect of this mechanic is that you can recharge your hyper by a lot if you time the end of your hyper when a lot of point items are on screen, more than you would be able to generate if you were out of hyper. Most of the optimization in this game as far as I can see is finding these instant recharge spots so that you can hyper again immediately.
So there's a One True Route to find, is what you're saying...
I'm pretty positive bosses screw with the 30-second timer, but other than that it seems like it would be fairly easy to find these pointspam spots and mark 31s back for the ideal hyper point.  It's appealing because an optimal scoreplay route seems to be very close to the optimal survival play route given the mechanics.

On the other hand, hopefully this still allows for some leeway in nuking particularly troublesome boss patterns (why hello there Himemiko's opener).

Lukesky180

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2014, 04:28:48 PM »
bug 1- autobomb being invalid
[attach=1]
this shows players' deathbomb allowing time.
however, they forget to set the loss time.
[attach=3]
thus you use autobomb for some times, you will have no deathbomb allowing time. 

however I know little Japanese (and English ), could anyone notify the producer about this?
Yeah, I noticed the autobomb and it confused me A LOT. I lost like 3 lives because of it XD
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Jaimers

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2014, 05:51:24 PM »
I also just noticed that you get extra enemies if you speedkill midbosses so that might be worth investigating.

Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2014, 06:07:58 PM »
Finished a run with an mostly improvised route with Marisa C Normal. 24,255,749,790 final score and 52,194 items collected.

-Let a "Fairy train" escape in stage 6.
-No hyper for the doom fairy cash-in in stage 6 (I don't know how to do it with Marisa C)
-Failed the stage 5 boss boxing glove spell and stage 2 first spell (maybe 250m lost)
-Not enough resources to bombing into suicide spam on stage 6 boss properly, might have cost me more than I first thought,
-Dropped items and let enemies escape all over the game.
"you never know, you may have the best strats in the world" - Zil

Immortal Momiji!

CF7

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #105 on: June 30, 2014, 07:36:22 PM »
Played it for a bit more. ReimuC is hilariously overpowered for survival. She destroys stages and bosses alike since that half screen filling flying gohei is broken.
Also i tried to timeout Momohime last spell (the one with 3 bosses in a row) and not only it does not gets harder or switches characters you even get spell card bonus for doing it. =)
And if you actually do defeat first 2 characters, her final phase is simply time based and after fireballs are added, it stays that way till the end.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 07:42:52 PM by CF7 »
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Critz

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #106 on: June 30, 2014, 10:44:29 PM »
Yeah, that's a bit unfortunate. Newborn Divine Spirit causes me more trouble than that phase. At least Tarumi's part is genuinely scary, and Momohime in general is no slouch. Her spinning mirrors spell card in particular seems downright impossible on Hard/Lunatic as the lasers simply crush you by staying active while spinning in opposite directions :ohdear: (it's hella fun on Normal though).

Also, regarding deathbombs, can someone explain that part in layman's terms? I am aware that getting hit while in hyper expends your bomb stock on autobomb and prevents you from dying (making prediction-bombing unnecessary in hyper if you have only 1 in stock). But outside of hyper, one time I seem to get an almost IN-size deathbomb window, other times I miss what I could swear was a planned bomb... multiple times in a row. Is that some kind of bug (maybe that thing rsy_type1 mentioned), or does hyper gauge influence deathbomb time or something?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 10:46:50 PM by Critz »

?q

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #107 on: July 01, 2014, 12:25:15 AM »
Why does no one join me in complaining about Momobear's first spell card :/

I'm pretty sure the entire point of Momo's portion of her last spell is to provide risque imagery to go along with how, without the benefit of translation, her patterns seem to be inspired by all the memes currently owned by Koishi.  I'm just saying.

Also, regarding deathbombs, can someone explain that part in layman's terms? I am aware that getting hit while in hyper expends your bomb stock on autobomb and prevents you from dying (making prediction-bombing unnecessary in hyper if you have only 1 in stock). But outside of hyper, one time I seem to get an almost IN-size deathbomb window, other times I miss what I could swear was a planned bomb... multiple times in a row. Is that some kind of bug (maybe that thing rsy_type1 mentioned), or does hyper gauge influence deathbomb time or something?
The DMF default is for the deathbomb window to decrease by three frames each time you use it, and resets when you die.  rsy is saying that the RSS programmers never overwrote that, so each time you deathbomb the window for doing so gets shorter until you simply can't do it any more.

---

I wanted to watch a replay to find out what a scoring path could be, but it looks like the number of point items you need to get a hyper increases each time you get one...?  That's unfortunate.

Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #108 on: July 01, 2014, 05:07:23 AM »
I feel like I should mention something I noticed about Futo C. She does have a larger point item collection hitbox, being assisted by the winds surrounding her, sucking them in when unfocused. When focused, that large wind shot she has reaches out to the point items further up the screen and sucks them in from a good distance. Helps with Hyper Chaining I find.

Arcorann

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #109 on: July 01, 2014, 09:04:53 AM »
Achieved a Normal 1cc on my second run (my first was aborted due to dinner) scoring 13.79B. I can certainly see Len's influence in this one - definitely a step up from the lagfests that were TLC and MPP.

I considered creating a high score thread for this game, but given the lack of interest in Phantasmagoria Trues' thread I'm not sure whether anyone would use it.

?q

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #110 on: July 01, 2014, 11:42:12 AM »
I considered creating a high score thread for this game, but given the lack of interest in Phantasmagoria Trues' thread I'm not sure whether anyone would use it.
I suspect scoring in this game is a bit more accessible than scoring in P.Trues, not least because the latter game is basically chaos incarnate.  (Also, scores that are longer than credit card numbers.)

Jaimers

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #111 on: July 01, 2014, 02:01:13 PM »
Hyper rank sure is a thing. It's the start of stage 3 and I already need twice as many items to fill a hyper than I would have in practice.

I'm wondering if you can suicide to lower the rank but I don't think you can. This makes routing a complete mess anyway. :/

?q

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #112 on: July 01, 2014, 10:18:11 PM »
Hyper rank sure is a thing. It's the start of stage 3 and I already need twice as many items to fill a hyper than I would have in practice.

I'm wondering if you can suicide to lower the rank but I don't think you can. This makes routing a complete mess anyway. :/
So, hyper as often as you can and try not to auto-collect just as it runs out, and go from there...?

There's still some strategy to it (e.g. Stage 4 has some seriously dead spots with just three yellow orbs onscreen) but etc.

---

Also, how do you balance hypers + milking the Stage 6 trains?

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #113 on: July 01, 2014, 10:41:57 PM »
Achieved a Normal 1cc on my second run (my first was aborted due to dinner) scoring 13.79B. I can certainly see Len's influence in this one - definitely a step up from the lagfests that were TLC and MPP.

I had seen some people talking about "Len's influence". May someone list some of these influences to me?
My youtube channel with my creations: https://www.youtube.com/user/KazeSenshi2929
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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2014, 02:11:03 PM »
Achieved a Normal 1cc on my second run (my first was aborted due to dinner) scoring 13.79B. I can certainly see Len's influence in this one - definitely a step up from the lagfests that were TLC and MPP.

I considered creating a high score thread for this game, but given the lack of interest in Phantasmagoria Trues' thread I'm not sure whether anyone would use it.

Instead of one JUST for RSS, why not do one for all Ido games? Would give others more options~

Smokey

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #115 on: July 02, 2014, 03:50:17 PM »
Instead of one JUST for RSS, why not do one for all Ido games? Would give others more options~
Are you trying to imply that anyone would want to score TLC or MPP? If the answer is yes, you might not fall into that "anyone" category ;)

CF7

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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #116 on: July 02, 2014, 09:09:46 PM »
Her spinning mirrors spell card in particular seems downright impossible on Hard/Lunatic as the lasers simply crush you by staying active while spinning in opposite directions :ohdear: (it's hella fun on Normal though).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/42jrka7kw8s7vm7/Package_replay05.dat
 :V

Or if you're Reimu A it goes somewhat like this.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/k4garw1y9o2wt3q/Package_replay03.dat
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 10:39:41 PM by CF7 »
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Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2014, 10:39:24 PM »
Are you trying to imply that anyone would want to score TLC or MPP? If the answer is yes, you might not fall into that "anyone" category ;)
Are you trying to imply that anyone would NOT want to mash the X button for 3 minutes on the last boss' last spell for MASSIVE points?

Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #118 on: July 02, 2014, 11:07:46 PM »
Well just an idea. That other game will be coming out late this year hopefully. If it has a good scoring system like this it could be kept in the same thread. I myself wouldn't put much/any effort with TLC but I would for MPP.

Finished a run with an mostly improvised route with Marisa C Normal. 24,255,749,790 final score and 52,194 items collected.

-Let a "Fairy train" escape in stage 6.
-No hyper for the doom fairy cash-in in stage 6 (I don't know how to do it with Marisa C)
-Failed the stage 5 boss boxing glove spell and stage 2 first spell (maybe 250m lost)
-Not enough resources to bombing into suicide spam on stage 6 boss properly, might have cost me more than I first thought,
-Dropped items and let enemies escape all over the game.

How?! I have like, 10 billion less at the end. Also, could I get a proper description of the scoring system if possible? I've tried as much as I could to match that score above but I just can't.

Re: 東方桃源宮 ~ Riverbed Soul Saver (From the makers of TLC and MPP!)
« Reply #119 on: July 06, 2014, 10:38:57 AM »
http://th-jss.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2014/07/ver100b-7a15.html

patch 1.00b

edit:
autobomb now  works properly (when you die , deathbomb allowing time will be reset to normal).

however autobomb in hyper still have no invincibility .
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 11:15:34 AM by rsy_type1 »