Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all

[I have no name]

The 3rd wave (with the 3 circles), I believe is somewhat dependent on your position-I sit in the center when they spawn and then dash to the left corner, which allows me to take on each ring individually.

The 5th and 6th waves (5 rings) are the same only mirrored-I find the 5th wave easier from the left (again, moving there after the rings spawn) and the 6th from the right side, as all I have to do is move up through the bullet rings.

To keep time points from spawning during grazing, you can unfocus and shoot between waves, lowering the human/youkai gauge and keeping it away from over 80%, when the time points would spawn.

[Zil]

I am currently trying to 1CC Touhou 3 on Lunatic with Reimu. I can get past first six opponents, but almost always I fail at Mima. Are there any tips how to defeat her? Tips on how to deal with opponents on Lunatic in general will be also appreciated.

Here are two things to keep in mind, if you aren't already. Mima's EX attacks bounce three times, and their color changes each time. Blue > green > yellow > red. The important thing to remember, essentially, is that the red ones will not bounce. Any other color will.
The other thing is that her aimed boss attack (the only one with no pellet bullets in it) can be easily dodged by simply tapping slowly. The boss itself gives no indication that it's about to use this attack before it does it, and so it can be hard to react to immediately. What I suggest is that you just assume that's the move she's going to use whenever she's about to attack, and be ready to tap dodge it. It helps if you have a feel for the timing between attacks.

There's also some fairly basic but extremely important things, that I'll mention just in case. Never use level 2 or 3 spells. Neither have any chance of hitting the AI, and on top of that the level 2 may be reflected back at you. Save your energy for calling bosses, and only do that to repel the enemy bosses. Otherwise just save it. When you're out of bombs, stop calling bosses as well and just use the energy for hypers (i.e. pressing the bomb button when your gauge is full).

And I guess I can link you some of my past ramblings. Maybe I should cobble together some kind of strategy guide someday.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg946510.html#msg946510
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg947230.html#msg947230
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14197.msg948307.html#msg948307

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Imperishable Shooting: If I recall correctly, all of the spell's behavior is controlled by your position, with no random elements. If the rings overlap in a bad way, try starting them in a different spot.

And an easier way to avoid getting time orbs when you graze is to just use a solo human.

[Snakebite969]

I'm having severe problems with death-bombing in EoSD. It's causing a lot of rage against Patchy (extra).
Do you have to tap the bomb button as soon as you die, or like a second before?

Or, am I simply having technical issues?

[I have no name]

death-bombing

This is the problem.

Outside of Imperishable Night (and MoF scoring) you should never, NEVER rely on deathbombs.  Always be looking ahead and try to bomb before the bullet hits you-hearing the death sound but having a bomb goes off means you just barely got the bomb off in time, and it was a good use of one too.

The exact window for a deathbomb, outside of IN, is smaller than human reaction time.  Just putting that out there too   :V

[Jirachi]

I'm having severe problems with death-bombing in EoSD. It's causing a lot of rage against Patchy (extra).
Do you have to tap the bomb button as soon as you die, or like a second before?

Or, am I simply having technical issues?

The window is 0.1s. So deathbomb works but you have to know you are going to die, and it'll give you a bit of extra time (which you can actually rely a bit on after you get used to it). But "bombing by reflex after getting hit and triggering the deathbomb doesn't exist outside of PCB with Reimu and IN. I also read that the deathbomb window in EoSD gets smaller every successful deathbomb but idk if it's true.

[CrimsonSumac]

Thank you for advices. I've read them, but I still have couple of questions.

I am generally trying to defeat bosses by surviving long enough, till they die on their own. I don't use Level 4 attack, because usually I don't have enough time to built up meter again for the Extra attack (or what is the proper name of the super attack thing when you don't have bombs?). I can defeat everyone with this strategy, save Yumemi (I don't know about her because I have fought her only once on 1CC attempt) and Mima. She is simply refuses to die. The worst thing about it: I die, when she have only one hit left. Her orbs is not a problem for me, but her...endurance is. No matter what I do, I run out of bombs and EX attack, when she only lost half of her health (if any at all). Guess, I will try more.

Anyway, now can I ask you couple of questions about this game mechanics? I've read about it on TouhouWiki, but I think I was lost in some terms and the like.

What does it mean "to reflect attacks"?
What are those big red and blue fireballs?
And why Bosses and Gauge attacks sometimes appear seemingly at random?
I guess it have something to do with shooting a lot of stuff coming at you, but I am not sure, since sometimes I shoot a whole bunch of fireballs and nothing happens, sometimes, it works and deletes "boss avatar". Honestly, I am completely lost in how does this thing work.
And how trigger normal attacks on enemy screen (like creating yin-yang orbs, e.t.c.).

I will very appreciate, if you be able to tell me how does this work.

[Karisa]

- Reflecting attacks - enemy explosions in range of small white bullets or fireballs will destroy them, giving you spell points and sending fireballs towards the opponent.
- I think blue fireballs are reflected small bullets, and red fireballs are reflected fireballs.
- The spell points give you free spell/boss attacks, supposedly at certain values, though it seems inconsistent. It is possible to reflect-cancel a boss by reflecting enough to send a boss to the opponent's side, since only one boss can exist at a time.
- No idea about the normal attacks since I haven't played the game enough-- from reflecting fireballs I think? Bosses can also summon them sometimes. Zil could probably give a better explanation.

[CrimsonSumac]

- Reflecting attacks - enemy explosions in range of small white bullets or fireballs will destroy them, giving you spell points and sending fireballs towards the opponent.
- I think blue fireballs are reflected small bullets, and red fireballs are reflected fireballs.
- The spell points give you free spell/boss attacks, supposedly at certain values, though it seems inconsistent. It is possible to reflect-cancel a boss by reflecting enough to send a boss to the opponent's side, since only one boss can exist at a time.
- No idea about the normal attacks since I haven't played the game enough-- from reflecting fireballs I think? Bosses can also summon them sometimes. Zil could probably give a better explanation.

Thank you very much. Now more things make sense in this game for me.

[Zil]

I think I assumed you were more familiar with the game than you actually are. :v

Anyway, PoDD terminology is a headache.

(or what is the proper name of the super attack thing when you don't have bombs?).

People around here tend to call them "hypers." I don't know what the official term is, or if there even is one. At the very least don't call them EX attacks since that's what the character specific bullets are (Reimu's yin-yangs, Marisa's lasers, etc.)

- I think blue fireballs are reflected small bullets, and red fireballs are reflected fireballs.

Not completely true. The red ones are indeed reflected blue ones, though the blues don't necessarily come from pellets, and pellets don't necessarily become blue fire. I'm not sure what the exact triggers for these things are.

- The spell points give you free spell/boss attacks, supposedly at certain values, though it seems inconsistent. It is possible to reflect-cancel a boss by reflecting enough to send a boss to the opponent's side, since only one boss can exist at a time.

The bosses are triggered at 51,200. Boss panics (boss with spell at the same time) at 300,000. However, if your opponent already summoned a boss, it takes 102,400 to reverse it, and (if I'm not mistaken) each successive reversal adds 51,200 to the requirement.

- No idea about the normal attacks since I haven't played the game enough-- from reflecting fireballs I think? Bosses can also summon them sometimes. Zil could probably give a better explanation.

These (EX attacks) are most easily triggered by reflecting fireballs, but they can come from anything else in a big enough combo as well.

[ElvenRed]

The 5th and 6th waves (5 rings) are the same only mirrored-I find the 5th wave easier from the left (again, moving there after the rings spawn) and the 6th from the right side, as all I have to do is move up through the bullet rings.

To keep time points from spawning during grazing, you can unfocus and shoot between waves, lowering the human/youkai gauge and keeping it away from over 80%, when the time points would spawn.

That worked wonders! Thank you very much

[CrimsonSumac]

The bosses are triggered at 51,200. Boss panics (boss with spell at the same time) at 300,000. However, if your opponent already summoned a boss, it takes 102,400 to reverse it, and (if I'm not mistaken) each successive reversal adds 51,200 to the requirement.

Oh, my...that's even more complicated than I thought.

These (EX attacks) are most easily triggered by reflecting fireballs, but they can come from anything else in a big enough combo as well.

Sometimes, I specifically target bunch of fireballs, destroy them, but nothing happens. Or maybe I don't notice that.

In your opinion - what a better way to play this game on Lunatic: waiting for the bosses to expire on their own or actively trying to kill them?

This game is like roulette - I don't like it: almost nothing depends on your skill and everything depends on a simple luck.

[I have no name]

This game is like roulette - I don't like it: almost nothing depends on your skill and everything depends on a simple luck.

Gonna stop you right there-in roulette, a bad spin means you lose, no questions asked.  In PoDD, a bad roll of the RNG means you have to dodge something crazier than usual-not an outright loss.  Yes, it's a very random game, but it's by no means straight up bad luck=fail.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

After reading accomplishment thread, it gives me an urge to play PoDD again. Do I need to keep the same mindset as PoFV when playing PoDD? Because Yumemi is so mean that she doesn't let me get a 1cc on Normal while I'm rather close at beating Lunatic with Eiki (might change player because Reimu as final boss feels harder than Eiki, maybe that's just me).

[CrimsonSumac]

Gonna stop you right there-in roulette, a bad spin means you lose, no questions asked.  In PoDD, a bad roll of the RNG means you have to dodge something crazier than usual-not an outright loss.  Yes, it's a very random game, but it's by no means straight up bad luck=fail.

I am disagree, because this game operates pretty much like roulette, at least on higher difficulties. What kind of skill can save me from enemy who keep summoning boss several times in a row? Or create boss attack + Level 3 attack in the middle of the swarm of the enemies? And let's not start with enemies themselves who pretty much die only when they feel like it.
This is not about skill - this is about luck. And endurance. But you need a lot of luck to survive long enough.

[chum]

Master the ancient skill of x

[Zil]

Sometimes, I specifically target bunch of fireballs, destroy them, but nothing happens. Or maybe I don't notice that.

You need to reflect them in an explosion from an enemy. Just shooting them on your own does almost nothing.

In your opinion - what a better way to play this game on Lunatic: waiting for the bosses to expire on their own or actively trying to kill them?

Normally you should try to kill them, but Reimu's charge attack is so weak that's often not an option for her. Still, trying to trigger a boss reversal is better than waiting for them to go away.

This game is like roulette - I don't like it: almost nothing depends on your skill and everything depends on a simple luck.

There is only one attack in this game which consistently reaches a level I would call humanly impossible, and that's one of Yumemi's 5 attacks. Otherwise everything is avoidable with good misdirection and reflexes. If you find you are often trapped then it's because you don't know what you're doing and are making foolish decisions. In fact, you've already admitted to that much. It's the reason you're in this thread.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

Can I repeat my gameplay problem again? I can't 1cc PoDD Normal (mostly stuck at Yumemi) while I can clear PoFV Lunatic just fine. Do I need different playing mindset or is the gameplay mechanics and difficulty simply far too different? Is there any tips?

[Sakurei]

Practice PoDD on lunatic in match mode.

The reason why a lot of people crash at Yumemi on lower difficulties is because the fights get faster as they go on. This is usually only a problem on Yumemi however. The fight speeding up is rather jarring and reaches lunatic levels in the last minute or two as far as I know. Practicing on lunatic won't make this "what the fuck why is it so fast" effect go away, but it will alleviate it.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

Get faster? I thought it's true for PoFV as well, so what do you mean by that? And do I need to practice against Yumemi?

[Sakurei]

It's true for PoFV as well, but what I mean is that the enemies have more health (they start out as mostly green/reds and turn lunatic health), the bullets become as fast (or nearly as fast) as they do on lunatic. And if you didn't know: Every bullet on lunatic is infused with lightning speed. It's far more extreme than it is in PoFV. PoFV timers are also shorter than in PoDD.

And yes, as I said this is mostly something that occurs against Yumemi due to the really long fight. Chiyuri to an extent too. I suggest practicing those 2 and maybe you stage 7 boss. It shouldn't be a problem on the early stages.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

Thanks, but I discover another problem. Since you can only bomb twice, PoDD seems to have much more emphasis on dodging as in later stages there will be a lot of nigh-undodgeable patterns (especially Yumemi). Is this only matter of practice?

Who's the easiest character to play with?

[Sakurei]

The only thing in PoDD that is consistently impossible to dodge is Yumemi's cloud of death. Not sure if that is the case on normal too, but at least that's the case on lunatic. If you're unlucky it's possible to get a combination that is nigh impossible as well, but generally speaking that isn't the case. it's mostly a matter of practice and luck (as in hope Yumemi doesn't cloud of death you half the time). Aside from that there're hypers after you've used your bomb which are in theory limitless. Your best bet if you just want to clear is try to stir up as little shit as you can and just let the timer run down. Sometimes things will escalate on its own, but that's what you have bombs for. But to clear, you definitely have to get used to Yumemi's patterns in particular.

Yumemi is the strongest character. She has good speed, a powerful charge attack that gets rid of bosses in 2 hits and decent charge speed as well as a powerful boss. Followed by Reimu (shit charge attack) and Rikako (shit charge speed).

[Szayelaporro Granz]

Thanks, but I forget to ask; I don't see timer anywhere and I don't know how to activate hyper. You see, I have very little experience with PoDD.

[Sakurei]

You don't see the timer.

Hyper is when you have no bombs left, a full charge and then press X. You'll turn incinvible for some time with a stronger shot and sometimes faster movement speed.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

When the timer finished, is it a guaranteed win? How long does it take approximately for each stage?

[Sakurei]

Timers are iffy in PoDD. Stage 1 is roughly 1:30 minutes with 10 seconds being added to to the clock until stage 6. Stage 7 is roughly 3, stage 8 is roughly 4 and Yumemi takes roughly 5 minutes.

And no, sometimes the AI can die late. Or early. There are no guaranteed wins

[☆ Hinalyte]

Hey, gotta drop-by to ask for tips on Yukari's spellcards because I always use a bomb after like 5 spellcards (the one where you have to circle on her is really gjfdglkdfjl).

also Yukari's spellcards are easier compared to Ran

[Yookie]

Some are easier, that is true.
First one: Instead of doing constant, slow streaming from on side to the other wait until all the green, slower projectiles finished aiming at you, then go after Yukari. Or do it Ran style, but that usually ends in timeout.

Second: Start vertically aligned with her in the bottom third of the screen. Wait until she fired her two waves of bubbles, go left. Wait till two waves of bubbles have been fired, go right. Wait till two waves of bubbles have been fired, go below her. Repeat. Don't panic, the projectiles coming from below spread really fast but usually make you feel uneasy (at least for me and some others I know. Bullets from below are iffy.)

Third: Stay below her and watch for openings to dodge the aimed bullets. Unless you get completely unlucky there are always openings.

Fourth: Exactly like Ran's (Didn't even know there are straight lasers until I watched my replay. :V)

Fifth: Direct her from left side to right. Stay below her until right before she fires her aimed shots. The lasers are irrelevant that way, may require some practice to get the timing but it is really lenient.

Sixth: Like Ran's listen for the sounds of the lasers switching, get close for red, go far for blue.

Seventh: You either stay low and just dodge it or you hug Yukari between the waves. The second method is only usable with high dmg characters, as it becomes too fast rather quick otherwise.

Eight: Chen had a completely fixed pattern, Ran is in a way aimed at you. When she is at the left she will move to the top to your vertical position, then move down aimed at you then go to the right side to your horizontal position. Then she will reverse and then repeat.

Ninth: Like Rans, but 45? turned

Tenth & Eleventh: There are enough guides around for that and I almost timed out "Boundary of Life and Death" and bombed three of "Danmaku Bounded Field"'s waves, so I shouldn't give advice about that I guess.

[Szayelaporro Granz]

Second: Start vertically aligned with her in the bottom third of the screen. Wait until she fired her two waves of bubbles, go left. Wait till two waves of bubbles have been fired, go right. Wait till two waves of bubbles have been fired, go below her. Repeat. Don't panic, the projectiles coming from below spread really fast but usually make you feel uneasy (at least for me and some others I know. Bullets from below are iffy.)

Sixth: Like Ran's listen for the sounds of the lasers switching, get close for red, go far for blue.

Seventh: You either stay low and just dodge it or you hug Yukari between the waves. The second method is only usable with high dmg characters, as it becomes too fast rather quick otherwise.

Eight: Chen had a completely fixed pattern, Ran is in a way aimed at you. When she is at the left she will move to the top to your vertical position, then move down aimed at you then go to the right side to your horizontal position. Then she will reverse and then repeat.

Ninth: Like Rans, but 45? turned

Tenth & Eleventh: There are enough guides around for that and I almost timed out "Boundary of Life and Death" and bombed three of "Danmaku Bounded Field"'s waves, so I shouldn't give advice about that I guess.

Basically you move (counter) clockwise, try to let the familiars gather in one place to create some space.

Beware that when it's blue, the butterflies can move backwards even after they left the screen.

It's pure dodging, good luck!

Unlike Chen, you can capture it by purely dodging at the very bottom.

Note that your position at the beginning will affect where the cage will move, so try to memorize it.

There is a safespot in this card. You have to lure Yukari to either side until she reaches a point where she won't move any further (any Phantasm video should have this IMO). Move as little as possible there, if not Yukari may move again and it will screw the bullet pattern. For some reason this method doesn't always create a perfect safespot, so sometimes you may have to dodge a few waves and breeze through the other while praying that it won't reach 30 second mark where she will shoot focused butterflies and destroying the safespot.

The pattern is fully static and it becomes a joke when you know the safespots. If you have Yukari's LW in IN, I strongly recommend you to practice there. This video together with its annotation should be a good guide.

Good luck!

[ElvenRed]

Another one you guys are already sick of answering;
I've been practicing Extra on DDC lately (really enjoy the music!), got some of the spellcards that I have unlocked on practice down, but still looking for some info;
Midboss second spellcard -> What's the best way to approach this? I already learned my lesson that hugging the bottom is a no-no. I've practiced attacking both girls, both are terrifying, but I have a bit more success rate staying below the one that shoots blue bullets (the ricocheting waves get larger gaps on that side of the screen, it seems), below the one that shoots the red bullets I usually get killed by a red bullet coming from the right which I did not notice until it was too late and I was dodging some other wave;

Raiko's first spell -> I'm almost giving up on Sakuya. I 1cc'd at work with her real quick just to unlock extra, but I'm considering 1cc'ing with someone else. Her stupid knives slow down the barrels, into which I ram while doding the bullets, which results in a dead Sakuya and an angry me;
I'm not sure on the number of the spells here, so I'll just give a description;
The one where she shoots spirits at the side of the screen, is there an easier way to doing it other than dodging the downward spirits, dodging the bullets coming from the left and praying the ones from the right and the rising red bullets don't wall you in? Despite that, I still seem to have a good success rate on this one;
The earthquake one, I have no clue how I've been clearing it but I have, I'd still just bomb it if I can (if only Raiko would take damage... D: ), any tips would be appreciated, still...

I already got the one with the cannons down, and haven't unlocked past that here so I won't ask about those (I think I have up to the survival unlocked at home, though)