Author Topic: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all  (Read 198120 times)

Karisa

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2014, 04:48:52 AM »
Any tips on beating Orin?
I can whip Remilia on Hard losing only 3 lives but apparently i cannot beat Orin on Normal with 6.
Any hints that i can use? I have no problem with "Spleen Eater" and most of the time i can perform "Zombie Fairy" aswell, but "Cats Walk" and all the non-spellcard attacks leave me using a lot of bombs and losing a lot of lives.
Help?

Most of Orin's patterns are about learning to dodge dense patterns, I think. She's quite difficult for a Normal mode boss.

- 1st midboss nonspell: This one tests your ability to move at specific speeds. You may need to briefly unfocus or move diagonally at times to follow the lanes properly, depending on your positioning.
- 2nd midboss nonspell: You need to read the moving bullets, not the stationary ones. I'm not sure how to explain it.
- Cat's Walk: Follow Orin around to deal as much damage as possible (she starts by moving left the first wave, right the second), then return to the center (to deal more damage to her when she's stationary) and dodge the waves one at a time whenever you can. If you see a wave you don't think you can dodge, bomb it-- it'll clear all the other waves too. Depending on your power you may have to dodge(/bomb) one or two sets of waves before her health depletes.

- 1st boss nonspell: You can trivialize this by staying right above Orin-- she won't spawn bullets on top of you. She moves after the 4th/6th/8th/etc waves, though, so make sure to move a tiny bit up so she doesn't ram into you (but then, if you see she's moving downward instead, move close to her again so she doesn't get to fire bullets). This also allows you to deal a bit of extra damage at the start of Zombie Fairy, and lure the fairies up at the start, making that spell easier.
- 2nd boss nonspell: This one can also be trivialized, this time by staying right below Orin. Tap down once when the spirits on the side explode, then tap up once so Orin won't spawn any bullets above you, and repeat.
- 3rd boss nonspell: This one can be tricky. It can help to remember that the bullets are in set patterns moving in the same direction as the spirits that fired them (though the direction the spirits travel is random). Try to dodge one angle of bullets at a time, and don't be afraid to bomb if you feel cornered.

- 3rd boss spell: The ghost wheels are aimed at you when you hear the sound of them firing-- they're actually aimed slightly to the right of your position, so you need to move less distance left than right to dodge them. Try to move out of their way as soon as you can, since you have to dodge through a field of dense bullets in the process. Again, don't be afraid to bomb.
If you use a bomb on this spell, note that you can misdirect a set of ghost wheels by going above Orin (be careful you don't do this late enough in a bomb that your bomb runs out before you can retreat to safety, though).
- 4th boss spell: The best strategy I've found for this is going up through Orin (she has no collision hitbox) until the fairies approach, luring the fairies to a top corner while dodging the bubbles, backtracking along the sides without shooting, and repeating by going to the other top corner. For a first 1cc, though? I recommend just bombing it when the fairies approach, since it's very easy to die here. If I recall correctly, if you stay on top of Orin throughout the bomb, ReimuA should deal enough damage to finish it off before the fairies revive...?

Here's a replay to demonstrate this, anyway, since descriptions can be hard to understand at times. I deliberately used a weaker shot type since 4 power ReimuA is actually quite strong (but I wouldn't expect you to be at 4 power all the time in a 1cc-- with SA's power system you get plenty of bombs in stage 5).
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=32777
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 05:01:12 AM by Karisa »

LunarWingCloud

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2014, 06:30:23 AM »
Personally for Orin's first spellcard, I don't even attempt to capture it. If you're not worried about losing 1 heart piece, try just timing it out. The bulk of the trickier bullets come from the exploding fairies. At the very least, try to make sure you get them away from you before firing at Orin. But me, I just time the attack out.

If you don't mind putting up with commentary from me and some friends, 19:30 of this video is the start of my Orin fight and how I handle it. I'm no expert on any Touhou game myself but maybe it'll help.

As a heads up though that fight was not my best, I can typically dodge all her noncards flawlessly and her first spellcard I usually time out without any casualties. That 1cc was somehow done when I wasn't even at the top of my game, IMO.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:32:03 AM by LunarWingCloud »
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Karisa

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2014, 07:01:04 AM »
I think the first spell is easier if you've been using the safespot for the nonspell before it, since being above Orin means you can easily lure the fairies upward at the start, meaning their bullets are farther away from you.

(By the way, you can add #t=19m30  to the end of the video url to link directly to 19:30 in the video.)

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2014, 02:23:30 PM »
Is the hitbox of bubbles in EoSD larger than other games?
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2014, 02:49:20 PM »
Is the hitbox of bubbles in EoSD larger than other games?

Yes. So are the knives'.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2014, 06:55:27 PM »
So are the semi-bubbles (the big bullets on Meister for example).

V If someone would be nice enough to explain how score works in EoSD I would be happy as well.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 06:59:05 PM by cactu »

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2014, 06:57:54 PM »
How does IN scoring work? Can someone please explain the system to me? I have actually no idea what I'm doing and there's just things everywhere

Oh

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2014, 07:11:52 PM »
How does IN scoring work? Can someone please explain the system to me? I have actually no idea what I'm doing and there's just things everywhere

I think you don't hold focus and you get score, something like that.

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2014, 07:16:06 PM »
I think you don't hold focus and you get score, something like that.
Unless you want to supergraze.
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2014, 07:28:48 PM »
So are the semi-bubbles (the big bullets on Meister for example).

V If someone would be nice enough to explain how score works in EoSD I would be happy as well.

You sit in the corner and bomb everything that has a lot of bullets. Easy 600m

Thanks denpa and yomihime. That will help w

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2014, 03:37:45 AM »
Any tips for Nue's second and forth spellcards in UFO extra? Every blue thing in UFO is bad :P


Yes. So are the knives'.
Sakuya and Sukuna taught me that I can't play with knives because their hitbox is strange. :P
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2014, 05:06:49 AM »
Any tips for Nue's second and forth spellcards in UFO extra? Every blue thing in UFO is bad :P

It depends on what shot you're playing as. SanaeB pretty much trivializes the 2nd while MarisaA trivializes the 4th. The safe way to do the 2nd is going to either side you hit most the UFOs and be going to the middle as you've misdirected them and is streaming the bubbles. The fourth you start killing the UFOs until Nue block them with her hitbox so you shot her instead; the UFO's themselves have static movement so once you learn their pattern you shouldn't get hit by them.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2014, 05:20:13 AM »
Sakuya and Sukuna taught me that I can't play with knives because their hitbox is strange. :P

Same. Also Kanako and Seiga and Miko and aaaaaaa...!

Jirachi

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2014, 02:44:05 PM »
Same. Also Kanako and Seiga and Miko and aaaaaaa...!

Kanako's knives are actually quite forgiving imo. Idk about Miko's though.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2014, 03:49:00 AM »
What would be the correct way to approach the ring fairies from EoSD's 6th stage? Whenever I do it, one of two things happen: either I successfully get through that portion, or some fairy crashes into me while I'l waiting for the stupid bullets to pass by

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2014, 03:53:47 AM »
What would be the correct way to approach the ring fairies from EoSD's 6th stage? Whenever I do it, one of two things happen: either I successfully get through that portion, or some fairy crashes into me while I'l waiting for the stupid bullets to pass by
What I do is sit in the lower left corner and stream the rings (they're all aimed at you) slightly to the right-the fairies on the left are killed by your shots and any that come flying at you from the right can be dealt with by switching "lanes" over to the left and possibly up.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2014, 03:57:43 AM »
Kanako's knives are actually quite forgiving imo. Idk about Miko's though.

Just practiced MoF stage 6 a bit and you know what, I think they are. Any knife danmaku still scare me, though. I have a hair trigger on that bomb button whenever knife danmaku show up.

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2014, 04:44:29 AM »
Knife danmaku isn't too bad... unless it's barely spaced apart like MIKO'S OR SUKUNA'S... T_T At least Miko and Sukuna's knives follow a very easy-to-read pattern, but still. Especially when knife danmaku moves really fast, it gets a bit scary. Like Max Rank Sakuya.
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Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2014, 09:15:37 AM »
I'm trying to 1cc DDC Hard with MarisaB, because I don't like to unfocus to collect power items. Which moments are the best to benefit from her bomb?
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2014, 04:18:39 PM »
I am at a loss on directions... >_>

So I managed to beat Mokou (which got me in surprise), but I didn't unlocked the final spell on her Spell Practice. When I looked at the requirement, it said that I'd need to capture 7 spell cards on my extra run while clearing the stage? And with that which are the easiest spellcards to capture along on this road?
1CCs:
Normal: IN (6A and 6B), TD, DDC, UFO, MoF, SA, EoSD, PCB, PoFV, LoLK (Pointdevice, Legacy), HSiFS, WBaWC
Extra: MoF, DDC, UFO, IN, SA, TD, LoLK, HSiFS, WBaWC

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Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2014, 05:05:32 PM »
Keine's 3 spellcards are included, and I like to think that they're among the easiest spells to capture, so there's 3.

Forget about Mokou's first spell, I believe a lot of people struggling with the stage have problems capturing it for some reason, but I would like to encourage trying to capture the 2nd and third spell, seeing how you can route the 2nd spell, and the third one is really easy. That makes 5 captured.
Personally, I also like to think of xu-fu as an auto-capture, since you can handle that spell the same way every time too. So 6 now, which leaves you with 6 spellcards left.

This is just me, but I suggest going for fujiyama volcano here. Mokou has plenty of easy spells, but this one can be handled in a similar manner every time, thus upping the concistency. And then you have 7. Congratz


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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2014, 06:11:52 PM »
I'm trying to 1cc DDC Hard with MarisaB, because I don't like to unfocus to collect power items. Which moments are the best to benefit from her bomb?

Nonspells that shoot a ton of bullets (or high numbers of bullets that aren't spells). You can easily farm tons of resources because it turns bullets into items. It doesn't turn spell bullets into items though.

Hard 1cc: 4 (LLS), 6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW)13 (TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)
Lunatic 1cc: 8 (IN), 9 (PoFV), 11 (SA), 12.8 (GFW), 14 (DDC)
Extra Clear: 4 (LLS) ,5 (MS) ,6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW),13(TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)

Szayelaporro Granz

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2014, 07:44:05 PM »
Nonspells that shoot a ton of bullets (or high numbers of bullets that aren't spells). You can easily farm tons of resources because it turns bullets into items. It doesn't turn spell bullets into items though.
Well, I know about that. Problem is that most of the time I can't reach the PoC to gather power items due to the short(?) invisibility time. For example, I want to gather resources by converting Sekibanki's nonspells into resources - but I can't gather most, if not all of them, because it will leave me vulnerable to unconverted barrage at PoC's location.
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2014, 09:10:12 PM »
Keine's 3 spellcards are included, and I like to think that they're among the easiest spells to capture, so there's 3.

Forget about Mokou's first spell, I believe a lot of people struggling with the stage have problems capturing it for some reason, but I would like to encourage trying to capture the 2nd and third spell, seeing how you can route the 2nd spell, and the third one is really easy. That makes 5 captured.
Personally, I also like to think of xu-fu as an auto-capture, since you can handle that spell the same way every time too. So 6 now, which leaves you with 6 spellcards left.

This is just me, but I suggest going for fujiyama volcano here. Mokou has plenty of easy spells, but this one can be handled in a similar manner every time, thus upping the concistency. And then you have 7. Congratz
or we could throw in Mokou's lulzy 5th spell, Honest Man's Death
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2014, 09:54:55 PM »
Seconding Honest Man's Death over Fujiyama Volcano in particular, as I find the execution of that easier to screw up than most of her other spells due to its chaotic all-over-the-screen nature. Hourai Doll also worth learning, both because it's a last resort if you've only capped 6 spells so far and because it's not that difficult. Phoenix Tail can be a lifesaver because you can capture it on the fly without learning any routes, but it's probably a bit too random if you want absolute consistency.  Personally I'd go for Keine's three and Mokou's 2nd-5th + Hourai Doll, which is 8 spells so you have some leeway.

Oh, and just in case you haven't already, learn routes. It makes spells like Woo and Fujiyama Volcano manageable (whether or not you want to capture it) and other spells like Keine's first and last pretty much trivial. There are plenty of replays and videos around if you don't know how to tackle them. Given that you've cleared already you probably already have routes for some of them but just making sure.
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2014, 01:08:43 AM »
Yeah, Honest Man's Death is way easier to learn than Fujiyama Volcano (which, personally, I think is Mokou's hardest spellcard). Tap right 3 times, Tap left 3 times, Tap Right 3 times, Tap Left 3 times, spell card captured.

Keine's 3 + Moku's 2-5 is definitely the easiest route to 7 imo.
Normal 1CC's - EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, SA, UFO, TD, DDC, LoLK
Hard 1CC's - EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
Lunatic 1CC's - PCB, IN, PoFV
Extra Clears - EoSD (+Ultra), PCB (+Phantasm), IN (+Ultra), PoFV, MoF, DDC
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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2014, 01:30:29 AM »
It might be the easiest 7, but I'd suggest planning for up to 9 captures, to give a little room for error.  Fujiyama Volcano is incredibly intimidating, but it's not that difficult once you learn a route for it.  Personally, Woo and Hourai Doll are the 2 I'd add, but those are cards that played to my strengths at the time, and indeed I captured both of those in my Imperishable Shooting unlock.  Woo plays similar-ish to Fujiyama Volcano, though easier to dodge (and more random).  Hourai Doll isn't too bad either, as it's just circling and dodging random+aimed bullets.  Again, figure out what spells you're best at, plan to capture more than 7 and you'll unlock the card easily enough.

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2014, 08:45:12 PM »
Thanks for the advices! It gave me encouragement to capture Keine's spellcards. I've managed to capture this spellcards on my run:

Past "Ancient History"
Reincarnation "Returning-Bridge Ichijo"
Future "The Next History Of Phantasm"
Immortal "Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix-"
Fujiwara "Flaw of Forgiving Shrine"
Forgiveness "Honest Man's Death"
"Possessed by Phoenix"

I messed up on Xu Fu's Dimension and Phoenix Tail, so yeah >_>. Also Woo and Fujiyama Volcano is asdfghjklshgjkksls so that's a no. I'm somewhat lucky to capture her survival spellcard, I guess the second phase is the hard thing there. And with that I unlocked "Imperishable Shooting"!

#yay
1CCs:
Normal: IN (6A and 6B), TD, DDC, UFO, MoF, SA, EoSD, PCB, PoFV, LoLK (Pointdevice, Legacy), HSiFS, WBaWC
Extra: MoF, DDC, UFO, IN, SA, TD, LoLK, HSiFS, WBaWC

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Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2014, 10:50:25 PM »
I am currently trying to 1CC Touhou 3 on Lunatic with Reimu. I can get past first six opponents, but almost always I fail at Mima. Are there any tips how to defeat her? Tips on how to deal with opponents on Lunatic in general will be also appreciated.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 12:24:01 AM by CrimsonSumac »

Re: Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2014, 02:56:29 AM »
So today after 108 tries I finally managed to capture Imperishable Shooting on divine blessing aka spell practice mode.
You guys are probably sick of answering about this card but I still want to ask a few things about it
-> the third wave, with the three overlapping circles - is there some logic to how the 'stars' point out? I usually get a really nice pattern where I can enter each circle at a time, but sometimes I get this extremely obnoxious layout where I basically need to enter the purple and blue circles at the same time (which usually doesn't end well);
-> the two waves with the many circles that expand at the same time - is there a trick to it? Some video suggested going through the sides, which did help, but I basically need to navigate that blind since not only the bullets are on top of the hitbox and character, but the stupid little clocks you get from grazing seem to be too, and I don't get enough time to get through comfortably, so I tried memorizing some movement scheme to get through, two taps to both sides while going up seemed to work a few times, but really I'm not in the mood anymore to keep going through the stuff before to figure something out right now lol