Author Topic: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival  (Read 14005 times)

Mino ☆

  • PCB player.
  • Touhou Hobbyist
Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« on: January 15, 2014, 02:22:46 AM »
Previous Thread

Alright! So this is a thread that's been gone for quite some time, and I think it would be a great idea to revive it. The score thread's purpose is to:

  • Ask/Give advice on scoring
  • Discuss current scoring goals and progress
  • Discuss and compare strategies
  • Anything else that relates to scoring!

My goal with reviving this thread is to generate more interest in scoring and give a place for people to discuss their journeys through scoring. So without further ado...

Discuss~  :3
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 04:40:14 AM by Mino ☆ »

Zil

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 04:54:14 AM »
Hmm, let's see. Mystic Square. I managed to beat all of Karisa's Mima scores. I hope she retaliates. ;p

A new strat I've started using is a supergraze on the stage 5 midboss. Its first attack won't hit you if you're right in front of it, though you have to back up a bit or you get 0 graze. It's easy the first time but you have to be quick to get into it again. Naturally this safespot also allows you to inflict awesome shotgun damage with Reimu and Yuuka. Works on every difficulty.
Shinki's cheeto lasers attack is also a good source of graze on Easy, which partly makes up for how difficult it is to do the supergraze of her second attack. I'll have to check how much graze it gives if you milk it completely, but I'm sure it's significant. Her "Devil's Recitation" may also be viable. The less you have to depend on the second attack, the better.

I think it should be possible to put together an Easy run with no deaths, no bombs, at least 600 items, and 999 graze in every stage except stage 1.

also I'm gunna git 120 m in gdwf

Mino ☆

  • PCB player.
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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 05:02:06 AM »
Scoring, scoring, scoring... Where to begin?

I never actually thought I would even become a scorerunner. My goals used to purely involve much survival play. But after one day thinking "It's been a while since I've done another SA score run", I decided to pick it up. I had a lot of fun with SA scoring. Learning new grazes, bomb routes, etc. etc. And eventually I managed to take it to 3bil. Inspired by my new drive to start scoring, I picked up Mountain of Faith after Denpa made a comment about how not many people post Lunatic entries on the MoF scoreboards anymore.

I found MoF scoring kind of fun. It's a lot different from the other systems with the lack of graze. So far I've just been toying around with stage practice.

I've tried to mock the Nanashi route slightly for stage 1, for the extra points before Shizuha (I usually end up with about 9.2 - 9.4 million)

I've also started using coa's stage 2 route. (Bombing the ring fairies, instead of streaming down on the top left side of the screen). It's less risky and seems to work well for me at the moment. I can always change things up later.

I've gotten most of stage 3 worked out. Though I'm not sure if I could capture Hydro Camo consistently. So I may have to prepare for losing 1 power, as I'm not sure if I'll want to restart upon Hydro Camo failures. I also really need to get better about not losing too much faith at the beginning, and before midboss Nitori.

Stage 4 is quite busy. I've still a lot to work on concerning this stage. I've only half of it even worked out. I hate how the replay desync makes it harder to study replays. I hope to obtain a practice mode replay for stage 4 to make things easier.

Stage 5 I have touched on a bit, though I'm not very good at the route yet. Practice, practice, practice~

And stage 6 should be simple enough.  As the stage is short. The main difficulty here is not giving into nerves and dying on Kanako.

While I've semi-worked out my routes. I'm still inconsistent and heavily not optimizing them. Of course, that's to be expected since it's only my fourth day of MoF scoring anyway.

I'm reluctant to start doing full runs until I'm very consistent at my route. I still don't have a goal. I'd like to play for 2bil. I'm not sure how long it would take me. But I guess I will hopefully find out eventually~

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 06:38:30 AM »
You work fast, good luck!
<Minogame> whoHOMUhere please make a top notch MoF Lunatic guide :D
<whoHOMUhere> 1. don't die
<whoHOMUhere> 2. don't gray items
<whoHOMUhere> 3. ???
<whoHOMUhere> 4. 2.2b

Time for a blog~ Avert your eyes.
I think April 2013 is when I started trying to "score" in MoF. Old score was 1.1 billion at the time (lol). I tried to play more credits, and got 1.3 billion, with tons and tons of mistakes. Still playing without a route, got 1.55 billion in a month with 1 death. Then decided to look at some early stage stuff. Made a roughly 1.9 billion route, but my later stages are still bad. Got 1.79b 1 death run in June. Then finally worked on stage 5, although stage 4 is still terrible, for a 2.0 billion route. 1 month later 1.86 billion with 1 death on PWG. And two weeks later, 2.0 billion.
I went to Hard mode, and got 1.83b a few weeks later on a bad run. For some unknown reason I played Easy mode for a week or so, getting 1.5b. Normal mode was fun, I finished two runs in a month of practice, 1.608b and 1.629b, and went back to Easy and Hard getting score of 1.515b and 1.965b.
Lunatic mode had my attention again. I played it so much that I forgot about all my routes for the other difficulties. My goals at the time were LNN and 2.1b. I chose to get LNN first. After about 100 hours of practice and credit spam I got it. Then a week later, got 2.125b (on stream too, which is odd).
Pretty good year I guess, although I only played one game for most of it. Will revisit these categories some day.

I will begin practicing SA Lunatic, later, summer maybe.

I am in no way fast, but I guess the moral of the story is that practice pays off.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 06:58:14 AM »
Okay, scoring...

As some people may know, I got into SA Lunatic scoring thanks to Mino, at first because of his challenge thread, then because I wanted to beat him to the 3bil, but sadly that didn't happen. I believe that actually helped me on my play, when I made a new score file I could barely do a vanilla 1cc to re-unlock everything and had two game overs on Utsuho for scoreruns, but then Mino gets 3bil and I suddenly can take more restarts and from much farther, so maybe I was just feeling pressured.

as for routes and strategies, I've watched UKT's run quite a lot, but also Bon's (2nd place, with 4.5bil )

For stage 1 I really don't have a set strategy, I just graze the most I can on the more obvious spots, I usually get 68-7100 graze, my best being 7500~

Stage 2 is just there, though I still make mistakes, but here's what separates UKT from Bon, Parsee.
I used to do the UKT method, get just 3.xx power from the stage and suicide twice on the opener, bomb the 1st spell and try to suicide before getting the life piece, bomb and then suicide again, Bon's method is: get full power from the stage, suicide once on the opener (start the 1st spell on 1.20 power), bomb the spell and graze the rest of the spell "manually", finishing off the spell by suicide, bomb and then suicide again.
UKT has you on Parsee's 2nd spell with 2.00 power but zero life resources (not even life pieces), Bon has you a piece short of an extra life but no power.
I feel like going with Bon's method, I find it less risky, but I will get the life piece from Parsee's 1st, simply because I see no point in not doing so, a missing life piece can carry out a long way, and I've lost runs to that as well.

Stage 3 is difficult just because of midboss Yuugi, the lasers are hard, but they're static so they can be learned, the bouncing bullets on the other hand are just... no, as for boss Yuugi, I've tried to learn the 1st spell super graze, it's not as hard as it looks, but it's pretty much impossible on anything below 3 power, so that may or may not be a reason for me not doing it.

Stage 4 might as well be called static, since the parts that aren't so are bombed, so that -should- go all right, Satori is really difficult because, ideally, you want a perfect fight, while milking the first and last spells, although it isn't really a necessity, it just makes stage 5 much easier

On stage 5 I think you need at least 3.40 power by midboss Orin, for the worst case scenario that you bomb all three of her attacks, you still have one for the popcorn section, after that try your best to refill on power without missing point items, boss Orin I find difficult because I have keep bombs and lives for the 2nd non, but that usually means I'm on almost zeroes for the rest of the fight.

Now, stage 6, the cash-in, the stage portion is pretty straightforward but I need at least 3 power for Orin, by whatever means, otherwise I miss out on a lot of items from the Kunai crows after her, from there it's just "don't die" for the rest of the game, but considering the pressure of carrying a run this far, it's all easier said than done.
I wonder though, what is the clear bonus made out of? I did a 1cc that finished with 1 life short of max and the clear bonus was nearly 600mil, I remember reading somewhere about lives counting for about 40mil each, but what about the rest?

Things I've done (and maybe will improve):
SA L6MNB | SA Lunatic 3b Scorerun | MoF LNB | PCB LNB |DDC LNB

redlakitu

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 08:03:00 AM »
Ah, why not. While my activity around here (and as far as Touhou games are concerned in general) has been very low lately, I've still got quite a few lingering goals to reach, two of which are scoring related. They are:

A >1 billion score in Perfect Cherry Blossom; any character and difficulty

Am I close to getting this one or not? My best Easy score is 910 million; my best Normal score is 882 million, but that run inolved six misses, nine bombs and two border breaks. I guess I should simply try doing a better job on Normal... either that, or actually learning to plan some borders in advance on Easy, since the billion seems difficult to reach otherwise. Improving Stage 4 performance wouldn't hurt either... I'm still unable to handle those aiming fairies a minute into the stage consistently. And my overall knowledge of this game is hilariously low. I should try harder AND smarter.

Improving my current best Imperishable Night Easy score

The score being 2 billion and 6 millions. I got it with solo Reimu, so performing further runs with her should be a natural course of action, but her aimed shot is actually starting to get on my nerves. That's why I'm switching to solo Marisa. I have also started watching replays of my stage practice and noting down what I should and shouldn't do, which might help me not forget things during actual runs. While my current route and performance should be easily enough to improve on the Reimu score, there are still some things I'd like to be able to pull off correctly, but can't; namely, the Stage 4 and 5 tricks involving getting very close to enemies with familiars. I'm already able to position myself so that I don't die while doing that trick, but I still end up destroying most of the familiars before the master goes down. What am I missing?

Zil

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 10:11:16 AM »
I wonder though, what is the clear bonus made out of? I did a 1cc that finished with 1 life short of max and the clear bonus was nearly 600mil, I remember reading somewhere about lives counting for about 40mil each, but what about the rest?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Subterranean_Animism/Gameplay#Scoring

Apparently power and PIV play a role. In case you weren't aware, the wiki pretty much has the mechanics of all of the Windows games explained completely.

Karisa

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  • High scores are meant to be broken.
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 10:48:39 AM »
Hmm, apparently this has become an alternate blogging thread? I actually wasn't expecting that-- I was hoping for more of a scoring help thread. It works though I guess. (Edit: OK, I guess this was just at the start.)

Apparently power and PIV play a role. In case you weren't aware, the wiki pretty much has the mechanics of all of the Windows games explained completely.
LLS/MS should be decently accurate too, if I recall correctly. At least, I went through them a while ago and corrected anything I could find-- the pages included strange copy-paste info like saying there was a limit of 8 lives/bombs at a time (there's not) and saying that bomb range depends on the character (they always cover the entire screen, MS bomb length is all that varies).

---

Might as well post what my own goal is right now-- that is, learning SA Easy scoring. In particular, I'm trying to learn how to score in SA with all 6 shot types. My first target is Heartbeam's 610m MarisaA score.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:03:11 AM by Karisa »

chum

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 11:08:46 AM »
Fairy Wars is a good game.

Szayelaporro Granz

  • You can't use spellcards within my range
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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 12:51:51 PM »
I have a near zero knowledge about scoring. What's the most basic thing for scoring? Grazing perhaps? From SA and forth are they added to the stage bonus or final bonus?
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
*Bug abuse.
Feel free to watch my crappy replays and twitch channel
My favorite touhou music

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 12:57:54 PM »
How do people line up the Eternal Meek safespot?

Shimatora

  • I'm not clumsy...
  • Really...!
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, 01:25:01 PM »
I have a near zero knowledge about scoring. What's the most basic thing for scoring? Grazing perhaps? From SA and forth are they added to the stage bonus or final bonus?

Basic idea for scoring is increasing point item value (PIV) as high as you possibly can. Grazing comes into this for SA, UFO and DDC, but not so much TD.

SA's system is centred pretty much around grazing - it's used for auto-collection and increases the PIV multiplier.

UFO's system you want to focus more on increasing the PIV through collecting UFO's while a UFO is active on screen. Each collected UFO is worth 1,000 PIV if I remember rightly.

TD you just want to spam XXC and gain PIV through trancing. Blue spirits are worth 10 PIV normally, in trance they are worth 100. Graze doesn't get you very much PIV at all.

DDC's system largely revolves around bombing bullets for PIV - grazing helps increase it still, though.

As you can see, they all play different roles in these games. Unlike some of the earlier games, however, you do not get score at the end of stages for your graze count.

Visit #sokumaidens on irc.ppirc.net for discussion and matchmaking for a wide variety of fighting games!
Feel free to message me if you need anything!

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 01:31:43 PM »
I've had quite many potential 600M runs recently, most of them failing on Sakuya. Most notable one had 527M entering stage six and gameovered before the midboss. It could have gotten 600M even with a Gensokyo gameover. :<
How do people line up the Eternal Meek safespot?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 01:57:07 PM by cactu »

Karisa

  • Extend!
  • *
  • High scores are meant to be broken.
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 02:27:53 PM »
I have a near zero knowledge about scoring. What's the most basic thing for scoring? Grazing perhaps? From SA and forth are they added to the stage bonus or final bonus?
It really depends on the game, as the gameplay gimmick is always a major part of scoring.

Though as Shimatora said, focusing on increasing the PIV is a good starting point. Collecting point items at maximum value is important too, particularly in the later stages. Spellcard bonuses are important in some games, such as MoF and DDC, but not in others, such as SA and TD.

I originally learned how the scoring systems work via watching world record replays to see what they focus on, and reading the wiki's gameplay pages (such as this for SA). The wiki pages also include the spell/clear bonus formulas, since you seem to be wondering about that. (The wiki "strategy" pages are generally pretty bad though, in my experience.)

Feel free to ask if you have questions about any particular scoring system.

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 03:09:01 PM »
Speaking of the wiki, I found this kind of silly.
(MoF Strategy section): A suicide at the start of the game may well be good strategy for advanced players.

Szayelaporro Granz

  • You can't use spellcards within my range
  • since I've already analyzed and sealed them all
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 05:50:30 PM »
Thanks Shimatora and Karisa :) I wonder if increasing the PIV is the best part to start scoring, would MoF be a good game to practice score run?
Normal 1cc: LLS, MS, EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF, UFO, TD, DDC / Hard 1cc: EoSD, PCB, IN, PoFV, MoF*, TD / Lunatic 1cc: PoFV / Extra 1cc: EoSD, PCB (+P), IN, PoFV, MoF, DDC
*Bug abuse.
Feel free to watch my crappy replays and twitch channel
My favorite touhou music

Shimatora

  • I'm not clumsy...
  • Really...!
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 06:10:02 PM »
Thanks Shimatora and Karisa :) I wonder if increasing the PIV is the best part to start scoring, would MoF be a good game to practice score run?

I'd say watch a few replays and see which looks most fun or play the game you enjoy the most for score.

Visit #sokumaidens on irc.ppirc.net for discussion and matchmaking for a wide variety of fighting games!
Feel free to message me if you need anything!

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2014, 06:24:29 PM »
As unlikely as I though it would ever be, I start getting interested in scoring myself. Even though I'm just beginning this journey, I'll leave my thoughts here as well, just to have a laugh in the future if anything. I do find scoring interesting now that I feel myself comfortable in a few games, but I don't think I'll be willing to learn extremely advanced tricks like supergrazing, so I don't think I'll be a threat to the top scorers, fancying myself "the worst of the best" instead. Then again, everything can happen. I mean, I have little trouble doing Visionary Wave on Lunatic vertical only, so it's not like I don't enjoy the challenge. Especially if it will be rewarding.

As I said elsewhere, I do start to like IN scoring system. It rewards survival, proper familiar handling, and sometimes taking a risk. Easy scoreboard is pretty heavy on the competition, so for now I'm enjoying filling up Normal ones. Some solo chars in particular ;)

I also looked into MoF and EoSD, and don't really think they're my thing. MoF not only needs a PERFECT survival, but also special route tricks to keep the faith meter from falling. I don't like too much restriction, preferring some room for mistakes. EoSD needs trading survival resources for score, which I'm not a fan of either.

Now, some thoughts on games I am yet too look into deep enough. PCB needs breaking borders on purpose, which I don't feel like doing as well, even at times when there are enough bullets to get another border. SA does seem interesting, I like grazing. So does UFO, given that "blue and rainbow UFOs only" is a nice survival challenge as well. GFW, while hard as hell, might be my thing too. Freezing stuff and then grazing to freeze more stuff faster sounds fun. TD... eh, as I said, I don't like trading survival resources for score. DDC... I am yet to play seriously at all, so nothing here yet.

Speaking of the wiki, I found this kind of silly.
(MoF Strategy section): A suicide at the start of the game may well be good strategy for advanced players.

I imagine it's done to get to max power ASAP so as to start building up faith faster. But since there are no lives you can get over the maximum, you do lose some of endgame bonus you would have gotten for that life. So, that faith boost isn't worth it, then?

Sakurei

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2014, 06:41:11 PM »
Speaking of the wiki, I found this kind of silly.
(MoF Strategy section): A suicide at the start of the game may well be good strategy for advanced players.

Apparently, this was not meant to be part for the whole game, but instead for the trial version. Meaning it's outdated and therefore people assume it's meant to be for the full game. A misunderstanding, pretty much.

So does UFO, given that "blue and rainbow UFOs only" is a nice survival challenge as well. GFW, while hard as hell, might be my thing too. Freezing stuff and then grazing to freeze more stuff faster sounds fun.

You kill yourself in those 2 for more bombs as well. In UFO you kill specifically kill yourself in stage 5 to have 2 bombs for the midboss so you can bomb the hell out of Nazrin (other places too, but I forgot where). And in GFW, you suicide regularly to get more bomb percentage. similar to PCB where you kill yourself a lot for a few different reasons. Mostly to get more bombs. Even IN routes aren't entirely bomb-free, but I guess only on lunatic, which you aren't playing just yet.

Oh

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2014, 07:56:48 PM »
Thanks Shimatora and Karisa :) I wonder if increasing the PIV is the best part to start scoring, would MoF be a good game to practice score run?
Besides increasing PIV, be sure to know where the majority of score will come from. (Some games depend more than item collection)

I also looked into MoF and EoSD, and don't really think they're my thing. MoF not only needs a PERFECT survival, but also special route tricks to keep the faith meter from falling. I don't like too much restriction, preferring some room for mistakes. EoSD needs trading survival resources for score, which I'm not a fan of either.
Most windows games trade resources for score. You don't need "PERFECT survival" for a score run unless you're at that level in which you can do the survival fairly consistently.

I imagine it's done to get to max power ASAP so as to start building up faith faster. But since there are no lives you can get over the maximum, you do lose some of endgame bonus you would have gotten for that life. So, that faith boost isn't worth it, then?
More so for the extra bombs, but it is definitely not worth it as the endgame bonus is worth a lot of your score.

Apparently, this was not meant to be part for the whole game, but instead for the trial version. Meaning it's outdated and therefore people assume it's meant to be for the full game. A misunderstanding, pretty much.
Thanks for clarifying~!

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2014, 09:06:31 PM »
Most windows games trade resources for score.

Seems that way, from Sakurei's explanation. Oh well, I'm still interested in how far one can go without doing that on purpose. Anyway, thanks for clearing up, both of you.

Karisa

  • Extend!
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  • High scores are meant to be broken.
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 12:59:27 AM »
Apparently, this was not meant to be part for the whole game, but instead for the trial version. Meaning it's outdated and therefore people assume it's meant to be for the full game. A misunderstanding, pretty much.
Hmm, that's interesting. It actually makes a lot more sense that way. The lack of a clear bonus changes strategy-- suicides for starting power are also useful in PCB/DDC trial routes.

I think I'll re-quote this by the way, since my parenthetical statement seems to have been missed by much of the thread.
(The wiki "strategy" pages are generally pretty bad though, in my experience.)

Zil

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 10:02:36 AM »
EoSD needs trading survival resources for score, which I'm not a fan of either.
Is there any particular reason you're against doing that?

In any case, IN is probably the most bomb free game of them all so I guess it's good that that's the one you're into.

Mino ☆

  • PCB player.
  • Touhou Hobbyist
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 03:02:46 PM »
PCB needs breaking borders on purpose, which I don't feel like doing as well, even at times when there are enough bullets to get another border.

Well, yes, there are a few times when you might break a border on purpose to get another border. It's not often as far as I know. (Then again I only score on Lunatic. I am unfamiliar with the lower difficulties)
However, most of the time, you time out your borders and graze unfocused so that you can get more PIV from the grazing.

Timing out borders is actually very essential as you get a 10k boost in CherryMAX. And on the times that you do break borders on purpose, it's always to benefit your score anyway.

However, PCB is arguably one of the more complicated systems, and in my opinion is one of the hardest to improve on.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 04:21:17 PM »
Scoring with conditions is not always extremely unhealthy for the final result in points, as there's a lot that can be done with manual grazing and PoC in most of the games. In PCB, IN, UFO, SA and probably MoF, it'd be quite possible to reach scores that would be accepted as high-end for this forum without expending resources. Including various first places.

In PCB, a play without bombs, focus or broken borders is very doable for high reward, especially on the lower difficulty modes. Flawless PoC will get extremely difficult without bombs or border breaks on the higher difficulties, though. (assuming you wanted to time the borders so that they'd benefit CherryMAX instead of collection in most places) There are a bunch of replays for those conditions on gensokyo.org, as the said challenge used to be rather played on the lower difficulties. For UFO, there should be stage practice replays performing a no-miss/bomb route for Normal.

As you were speaking about competition earlier, I don't think it's a good idea to be shunned by high-looking numbers. A quick glance to the aforementioned scoreboard reveals that some scores indeed are on the higher end, but there also are various results that would seem to be low-tier and easily defeatable if you were to stick with the same goal a bit longer. (At least the Alice, Remilia and to an extent the Scarlet Team score don't seem very thought-out.)


I think that PCB and IN aren't that bad games to being with (especially if they seem to be enjoyable), the complexity is far overstated (PCB is actually a rather simple game if you play without bombs, IN even more so - compared to UFO, SA and to an extent EoSD, where you have to do a lot of unorthodox bombing and collection tricks). Aside from the most obvious and rewarding ones, the actually difficult and confusing spellcard grazing/bombing for cherry aspect of PCB doesn't become relevant unless you were to defeat the high scores for Normal, Phantasm or especially Extra. Also, you won't be punished as much for a death in these games as you would be in some others often suggested "good for beginner scoring players" (SA, MoF).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 04:23:14 PM by Inadequate »

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 06:45:38 PM »
Is there any particular reason you're against doing that?

Personal preference, I guess. A perfect scoring system for me is one that rewards taking a risk while not using the limited survival resources. (Ketsui is a good example, I think.) I guess I'm more of a survival and challenge player, but if I can nab a score to boast about along the way, then all the better. Not to say I can't appreciate systems that require such tradeoff. Garegga scoreruns look no less impressive to me. It's just not something I wish to learn doing. I mean, I could in theory try scoring in EoSD Easy nowadays, since I don't worry as much about my survival there, but I just don't feel like it.

Well, yes, there are a few times when you might break a border on purpose to get another border. It's not often as far as I know.

Well, that and timing border activation are something I don't want to study, preferring to just strive to get borders ASAP and time them out, but I do like the general strategy of staying unfocused as much as possible, so I do wonder what scores I can get with that. Although so far they're not really notable. That may or may not have something to do with me still having some problems with general survival there, even on Easy.

As you were speaking about competition earlier, I don't think it's a good idea to be shunned by high-looking numbers.

Oh, don't worry, it's more of a case of personal standards. I started considering scoring only recently, and my Easy Ghost Team 1MNB would score fifth if I posted it there. It's just that the miss was pretty shameful for me, and the lost resources would have given me even better score. The run was pretty good, but I just feel like I can do better. On the other hand, I'd not post my Normal Remilia solo clear due to stage 6 derps, but her scoreboard feels a bit lonely. Besides, the score isn't all THAT bad, better than my first clear anyway. In general, it's not a question of whether to post my scores there. It's a question of "when".

BT

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Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 06:58:12 PM »
Personal preference, I guess. A perfect scoring system for me is one that rewards taking a risk while not using the limited survival resources. (Ketsui is a good example, I think.) I guess I'm more of a survival and challenge player, but if I can nab a score to boast about along the way, then all the better. Not to say I can't appreciate systems that require such tradeoff. Garegga scoreruns look no less impressive to me. It's just not something I wish to learn doing. I mean, I could in theory try scoring in EoSD Easy nowadays, since I don't worry as much about my survival there, but I just don't feel like it.
Games that require you to use resources to score are just another archetype altogether - it's a game of planning resources and learning to use them optimally, which is pretty refreshing alongside the usual dodge-and-control.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2014, 10:01:32 AM »
Been practicing EoSD Stage 3, I figured out how to get 800 graze on the opener somehow, still inconsistent though. I have about 3250 graze entering Meiling on my best runs, which is less than 100 graze from the WR. I found out how to do Meiling's openers first wave properly, instead of jumping out on the third wave and staying higher up, I stay as low as possible and jump right at the beginning of the third wave and I get about the same graze and it's a lot easier to survive. I had a run that was 220M that was missing 10M worth of cancels, which would be 5M less than the WR for stage 3.

Zil

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2014, 08:53:31 PM »
More about MS Easy. I had a run earlier that reached stage 6 with 520 items, but then I died like an idiot. I'll put down the item counts for the first 5 stages.

61
81
110
149
119

It never really occurred to me before but stage 4 is by far the most important for grazing. I'll have to stop being lazy and learn the grazing for Yuki and Mai. 999 graze should be possible. I've reached it in stages 3 and 5, and it's clearly reachable on stage 6 with enough bravery. There's also a supergraze for the stage 4 midboss which I've never bothered with because it slows the kill, but she's so easy to shotgun on Easy I don't think that will be a problem.

Another thing. Chirpy's been talking about using bombs to collect items, so I fooled around with it a bit and found what I think is a good spot. http://www.twitch.tv/okina_flying_fantastica/c/3575791

The only other spot I can think of where it might be viable is the section of stage 2 just before the dream item. It would be a disaster if the bomb killed the first 3 comet things, but if you can fit it in after the crystals stop falling but before the comets appear, it could be good. And then there's that nice dream item right there but really you shouldn't need it. Mima shouldn't anyway. Marisa might. I'm not sure how long Reimu's bomb lasts but I think it's too long lasting to really be useful, and Yuuka's certainly is. But whatever. I'm only going to bother taking these measures with Mima anyway.

Re: Touhou Score Thread V: The Revival
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2014, 08:06:39 PM »
Got a combined score of 700M in practice mode stages with ideal resources. Now to pull it all off in a full run...  ::)
S1: 25M
S2: 42M
S3: 229M
S4: 121M
S5: 191M
S6: 102M

/edit 710M
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 06:29:09 AM by cactu »