Miscellaneous Questions Thread 4 - Bring us your Questions!

[Alfred F. Jones]

Archive for older threads. They won't be deleted.
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #1
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #2
Miscellaneous Questions Thread #3

※ Welcome to the Miscellaneous Questions thread! ※

^source

In this thread, ask for the sources of doujinshi pages, artist sites and pixiv pages, original versions of edited images, meanings of internet memes, and anything else you can think of. Questions like "HOW DO I BEAT THIS SPELLCARD?? or "WHAT IS THIS VIDEO PARODYING?" and such are all more than welcome here (better yet, in their respective specialized threads). We do artist sourcing, music identifying, you name it. Even if it doesn't have to do directly with Touhou, please ASK HERE rather than creating an entirely new thread for it.

Useful Links: PLEASE CHECK THESE BEFORE ASKING

• http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki - For questions about Touhou overall.
• http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Category:Characters - For questions about a Touhou character such as ?Why is Reimu always flashing her armpits??
• http://iqdb.org/ or http://iqdb.hanyuu.net/ - Image search sites. Use these to find cleaner or higher resolution versions of certain images, or the artist of a certain picture.
• Bug Report Thread - Ask here if the forums are acting strange for you.
• Danmakufu Guide - Links to the wonderful folks over at Rika's Garage, who will be more than glad to help you out. (And chances are that if you've come here for Danmakufu help, you've already found your way there anyway.)
• General help thread on how to play Touhou, courtesy of Sapz.

If those sites and links fail to give what you are looking for, then please post your query here. If you as a question at one point and it doesn't get answered in a significant span of time, please don't hesitate to ask again. We may not have been able to answer the question at that time, but our knowledge has likely changed since then. If you feel that your question is being ignored, rest assured that it is not; we simply do not have an answer for you.

Also, no question is too stupid to ask. Here, we will answer you truthfully and without trolling. These boards have active moderators, and people who lie in their answers will be dealt with.

The same rules apply here as they do to the board at large, of course: No links to game downloads, no warez, etc etc. You know the drill.

A helpful community is worth endless gold. Thank you for showing your time and effort and helping out each other.

[cuc]

Picking up from last thread:

>"Crown Princess" in wiki translation

I agree with all the smart posts in the last thread. Still, someone should change the wiki back to "Crown Prince".

1) Let the ambiguous stay ambiguous;
2) there have been many crown princes of Japan, but Shoutoku was so famous that the title "Crown Prince" has become synonymous with him.


>an old debate:
female fireflies don't fly; "there's even a doujin song where Wriggle wishes she's more feminine like those who can't fly"

Female fireflies of some species don't fly. The most iconic firefly species in Japan, "Genji firefly" belongs to the genus luciola. Their females can fly. Also, that song sounds like an awful idea.

[Clarste]

It's actually kind of funny that my dictionary lists "Prince Shotoku" as one of the definitions of 太子.

Anyway, on the wiki there's been some discussion over whether or not the title is technically masculine in the first place. Apparently there's been at least one Princess to use that title at some point, but the example given was Vietnamese rather than Japanese so I'm not entirely convinced about how relevant that is. "Crown Princess" really bugs me though. I'd rather call her something generic like "Your Highness" than emphasize her femininity in her title.

[Drake]

I think saying Crown Prince emphasizes the disconnect between history and reality so I think it's witty and apt to use Prince regardless of what the term actually implies.

[Belian7]

Eh, hello everybody! I've been lurking for a bit, but never really got my act together until now. It's great to see this board running strong!

Anyway, a quick question.

So: Is a youkai a youkai in Gensokyo because it eats humans, or because it attacks humans? I mean we have Rumia the Man-Eating Youkai, and people from the outside world who slip across the boarder tend to be lunch (for Remilia, I think?) But then we also have that bit in the spell card rules that says youkai are youkai because they attack humans, and not specifically eat them, if I remember correctly. (Of course, a part of me cannot help but wonder if Reimu would really be tolerant of so many youkai if they were obviously eating people...)

Thanks!

[Clarste]

Eh, hello everybody! I've been lurking for a bit, but never really got my act together until now. It's great to see this board running strong!

Anyway, a quick question.

So: Is a youkai a youkai in Gensokyo because it eats humans, or because it attacks humans? I mean we have Rumia the Man-Eating Youkai, and people from the outside world who slip across the boarder tend to be lunch (for Remilia, I think?) But then we also have that bit in the spell card rules that says youkai are youkai because they attack humans, and not specifically eat them, if I remember correctly. (Of course, a part of me cannot help but wonder if Reimu would really be tolerant of so many youkai if they were obviously eating people...)

Thanks!

It's usually generalized to "attack" but honestly it depends on the youkai. Quite a few of them are harmless or benevolent, like yamabiko and hakutaku (Kyouko and Keine). Mostly what they have to do is fulfill the expectations of the human beliefs that gave birth to them. If people are afraid of a monster that eats people then they'll have to eat people, but if people want an explanation for how echoes happen in mountains then they just need to make a lot of noise. Not needing to eat people doesn't mean their harmless though, since Murasa needs to drown people (or at least try to).

Incidentally, "Eat" is also defined broadly, since Kogasa surprising people apparently counts as eating them as she is sustained by their emotions.

[Failure McFailFace]

Random question:

How the heck did Yukkuris spread and get popular?

[Drake]

Spread? Like most 2ch memes do, it was hilarious.
Get popular? Artists getting a hold of them.

When did it go wrong, you ask? When people started giving them various individual characteristics and turned it into its own poor derivative of the fandom, rather than keep it as a casual joke meshed together with the rest; and then later again when some decided torturing and killing them in grotesque ways and the like was actually a good long-term idea.
The more well-thought-out ploys that spawned the trend were decent and worth a laugh (in the beginning), but then people started taking it seriously and they swiftly became this sort of easy outlet for some of the more deranged people to get their kicks.

If you're just talking about their history, the wiki has a page on it, but most of the stuff beyond the first section is filled with the sort of drivel that's taken it over.

[Tengukami]

Random question:

How the heck did Yukkuris spread and get popular?

If this is related to the Yukkuri thread you started, you should maybe read the links people post in your thread.

[Biakmon]

Can someone tell me in more details what the mysterious strange occurrence of chap 10 of CoLA was really about (appearing of body part)?

- Also did Reimu really watch her hands at the end of the chapter?

Chapter  11 of CoLA
　……眼が慣れてきた。ここは、この見覚えのある鳥居は……神社なのか？　神社に大勢の人がいる……。
...My eyes were becoming accustomed to the light. This archway here was something I recognized... Is this a shrine? And there "(are are?)" great number of people here too...
- Is that a mistake, just asking?

[cuc]

Back when ZUN still gave detailed answers to people's questions (those things can be found on wiki, untranslated), someone asked him about that chapter: did this chapter mean he was opposed to artificial (and cloned) limbs? ZUN said his understanding was correct, but the opinion was Rinnosuke's, not his, though his opinion might be similar to Rinnosuke's.

There's no doubt Rinnosuke was ZUN's self-insert character. So this chapter did reflect his view at the time of its writing: he was against medical cloning, and perhaps even synthetic limbs. Of course it's impossible to know if he has changed his stances since then.

[Drake]

- Is that a mistake, just asking?

what mistake i don't see a mistake

[Starxsword]

The way her power works is first she finds the points on the objects which have the most tension built into it (referenced as "eyes) and pouring her power into them. Then she can move the "eyes" into her hand and crush the "eyes" by clenching her fist, destoying the object.

I don't think that is the case. The "eye" of the object in question is always on her right hand. She doesn't really have find any weak points on the object in question.

On Suika, she didn't actually shatter the Moon, as the Moon people in Gensokyo see int he sky is actually the reflection of the real Moon. What she did was she shattered the heaven to make it look like she broke the moon.

My interpretation is that she did shatter the moon. She didn't shatter the true moon, the one that the Lunarians live in, but the fake moon, the one that you see in the "real world". In either case, she pieced it together, so it doesn't really matter.

Was the fact that Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir mentioned in any of her profiles? No. Besides, waving SoPM around as an evidence that Akyuu doesn't mention anything about the matter is just as doubtful. I mean, it's Akyuu...

I am confused at how this is even related. The fact is that there is no conclusive evidence stating Eirin drank the Hourai elixir. There is supporting evidence by dialogue, but not conclusive evidence.
SoPM evidence and any evidence Akyuu presents is as good as any evidence you will see in the games. I'm not sure why you mention it's Akyuu as if it is bad evidence.
If Akyuu provides incorrect evidence, you will know it. She mentions so in the dialogue.

As for Miko's gender, please refer to cuc's post. The japanese text refers to Miko as female. The Japanese language can easily be ambigious on this, but it used the female pronoun, so that is something you need to consider. What I mean is instead of using "that girl", Zun could have easily used "that person", but the word choice is there.

@Shotoku: I would also rather see the wiki change Crown Princess back to Crown Prince. I understand this can cause confusion, but I think this would most accurately describe Miko.

Can someone tell me in more details what the mysterious strange occurrence of chap 10 of CoLA was really about (appearing of body part)?
Also did Reimu really watch her hands at the end of the chapter?

What are you trying to ask?

[Biakmon]

srry I mean wash not watch.

- Also did Reimu really wash her hands at the end of chapter 10 in CoLA?

　神社に大勢の人がいる??。 - And there "(are are?)" great number of people here too...

Also that one in chapter 17 CoLA
霊夢は疑問に思ったことがないのかい? - ?(Haevn't) you ever thought about that, Reimu?

[Drake]

I fixed the "are are", sorry if I didn't make that clear. I fixed the "haevn't" as well. In the future, if you see such an obvious mistake you can edit the wiki yourself, you know.

Anyways, Reimu says she washed her hands, but Rinnosuke points out that she's been with them the whole time; Reimu then asks Marisa for more tea, and Marisa exclaims she already gave her some.
Reimu just poured her tea over her hands.

[Damien]

Playing SMT4 then I came across with this demon called Koga Saburo, then I look at his description :

Koga Saburo (甲賀三郎) is the main character from the classic Japanese fantasy Suwa Engi (諏訪縁起) which was collected in Shintoshu (神道集). He was lost in the underworld which turned his body into a snake. After his return to the ground, he was worshiped as the patron god of Suwa Shrine. In some record, Koga Saburo was regarded the same as Mishaguji and Take-Minakata.

He? Mishaguji? Does that mean that he is Suwako's husband or something?

[Sagus]

In Touhou, Mishaguji is described only as being Suwako's servant, and nothing more.

[TrueShadow]

Playing SMT4 then I came across with this demon called Koga Saburo, then I look at his description :

He? Mishaguji? Does that mean that he is Suwako's husband or something?

That sounds more like he's the base for Suwako, if anything.
Which reminds me, how does the actual Suwa myth sound anyway? I only knew these:
- The Amatsukami (the Heaven gods) want to rule a certain area of the Kunitsukami (the Earth gods), I forgot which area.
- Japan back then was ruled by the Earth god Oukuninushi/Daikokuten (y'know, the guy Tewi and the rabbits worship)
- The Amatsukami sent Take-Mikazuchi, and the Kunitsukami sent Oukuninushi's son Take-Minakata. They had a match and Take-Minakata lost.
- Take-Minakata fled to the Suwa region where he married the Suwa goddess Yasaka-tome.

There are obvious parallels to Kanako and Suwako's backstory here. Heaven god want to rule a region ruled by a native god and the native god lost. That would make Kanako = Take-Mikazuchi and Suwako = Take-Minakata. But then there's the part about Suwa region, where in Touhouverse is the area being fought for instead of where the loser fled to, and Yasaka-tome, where Kanako got her last name from. I wonder if there's any more we can find from the original myth.

[Sagus]

The dialogue between Yukari and Toyohime near the end of SSiB seems to suggest that the lunarians sealed Take-Minakata inside the Moriya Shrine through two thick shimenawas because they feared his retribution for conquering his father Daikoku's lands, which would suggest that he's a separate deity. However, considering that Yasakatome is Take-Minakata's wife in the original myths, and how Kanako and Suwako are allies in the touhouverse, maybe Take-Minakata really is just another name for Suwako. She is noted as basically never leaving the shrine, IIRC.

since this implies that the lunarians fear the cute loli frog of all people i'll be accepting this as canon ok? ok :V

[Fonzi]

Lunarians have odd phobias. While they have no problems squashing an army of youkai, a few unarmed astronauts landing on the Moon was enough for them to record the event as a war and the faliures of Apollo missions as defeat. It was so alarming to them, that it made Reisen flee to Earth from the Watatsukis.

[Prime32]

Part of that is Lunarians having odd phobias, another is moon rabbits being gossips who exaggerate a lot.

[Imosa]

Topic: Magicians. I asked a question on the IRC and while trying to learn the answer, we ended up dredging up a ton of confusion on this subject. 
So the PMiSS article on the wiki is a little confusing about some things. First of all, magicians are Youkai, whatever that exactly means. Second, there are two kinda of magicians, those who are born as magicians and humans who become magicians.
Right off the bat. Since when are youkai "born"? I found it an odd choice of words since I always figured they sorta fade into existence.

Third, born magicians aren't actually magicians until they learn "abandon temper" to become ageless.
Why would they need to learn "abandon temper"? If they are youkai aren't they already ageless?

Fourth, for a human to turn into a magician they have to learn "abandon food".
Alright, fine. Does the human also need to learn "abandon temper"? "Abandon temper" almost seems more important.

At the beginning of all of this are my more fundamental question. What happens when Magicians "die"? I imagine, the answer is the same as "What happens when youkai "die"", and I don't know the answer to that either. Of similar importance, what happens when a human becomes a magician and, by extension, a youkai? Finally at the core of it all, what is a youkai?

For the fundamental questions, I think I'm happy with my own answers, unless there just is canon answer that I overlooked.
I've thought about it, and here is what I came up with. I'm going with the definition that youkai are the little things people currently use to fill in the knowledge we don't have. Why are we afraid of the dark, because something is going to get us, and that something is Rumia. I think that's accurate enough. It fits the question "Why is this person not aging or need food?". The answer is that this person is a magician and uses magic.
Finally, my explanation for the transformation from human to youkai is because once the human is, according to PMiSS, "powered by magic" their abilities become so shrouded in mystery, their magic becomes so incomprehensible and unintuitive, that onlookers rationalize their existence as a youkai, causing the human to become a youkai.


EDIT: Note that my answers to the fundamental questions don't address the other questions above. Youkai being "born" still sounds weird, abandon temper still seems unnecessary for born magicians, abandon temper still seems necessary for once-human magicians.

[Kingault]

Well, I guess magician-born magicians learn a spell to abandon temper, while human ones learn a spell to abandon food.
This allows them to stop aging, becoming full magicians. That's what I got from the entry.
Also, about magicians being born, I'm guessing that it's the same way as humans are formed.
Magicians are different from general youkai, I guess.
Same for dying, maybe?

[Polaris]

Those who were born as magicians, from the start, are only able to use magic, and just like humans, they grow, age, and have a limited lifespan.

Then, when they learn "abandon temper" magic (*2), they become long-lived, complete magicians.

In the case of those who were originally human, in continuing their study of magic, it is when they learn "abandon food" magic (*3) that they become magicians.

After that, it's the same as for normal magicians.

Like it says in the article, magicians age like humans until they learn the proper magic to stop their growth. So magicians -> "abandon temper" -> complete magicians.

Humans learn "abandon food" to become magicians, and then from that point they're just like normal magicians. So humans -> "abandon food" -> magicians -> "abandon temper" -> complete magicians.

When it says "those who are born as magicians", the line can also be translated as "those who are magicians by nature". Dunno if that helps. It's impossible for me to explain the mechanics behind youkai coming into existence so I like to imagine they just sort of spontaneously appear.

[Sagus]

"Youkai" is a very, very generic term; for instance, an oni and  a karakasa ghost are nothing alike, yet both are called youkai. Just because something is true for a large variety of them doesn't mean it's something that ALL of them have. If human imagination first defined magicians as being able to be born and age like normal humans, then that's how they are. Doesn't matter that other youkai don't age. Also, as an aside, we know that such things as a youkai egg exist (the Three Faeries found one), so some species must be able to reproduce in a biological sense (Or maybe that thing was a literal youkai egg. As in, a youkai that has the shape of an egg).

Humans becoming youkai isn't really that uncommon (were-creatures, hermits, being healed by the Ibaraki-box [turns you into an oni]...); I don't think the human loses its soul when such a thing happens. And as for what happens to a youkai when it dies, I still think that it gets judged and sent to an afterlife. Eiki goes around lecturing youkai, which I don't think she'd bother to do if they couldn't be sent to a bad afterlife, and she does mentions to Cirno that if she ever ends up permanently dying, she will be judged; if even a fairy gets an afterlife, I don't see why youkai wouldn't.

[Fonzi]

"Even if I die I'll just be reborn, and if I can't be reborn I'll be fine as a phantom." That's their line of reasoning. Rather than that, what they're scared of is their existence being denied completely.

  Miko, SoPM, part 5

[Clarste]

If you think about it though, why would they care about their existence being denied after they're reborn? Unless the coincidentally get reborn as the same kind of youkai over and over again, which I'm pretty sure defeats the purpose of reincarnation. I suppose fading out of existence destroys their soul in a way that dying doesn't? And also not in the "Shortcut to Nirvana" sense that other soul-killers in the series are usually described as.

[Starxsword]

However, considering that Yasakatome is Take-Minakata's wife in the original myths, and how Kanako and Suwako are allies in the touhouverse, maybe Take-Minakata really is just another name for Suwako. She is noted as basically never leaving the shrine, IIRC.

Suwako visited Eientei in Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon. She smacked Reisen silly and got stomped by Kaguya.

I suppose fading out of existence destroys their soul in a way that dying doesn't? And also not in the "Shortcut to Nirvana" sense that other soul-killers in the series are usually described as.

That is probably the case.

[Sagus]

Suwako visited Eientei in Inaba of the Earth and Inaba of the Moon. She smacked Reisen silly and got stomped by Kaguya.

I know that she appeared outside of the shirine; I said "pratically never", not "never ever"

[TrueShadow]

I think how youkai reproduce differ for each species. Youkai are largely defined by human imagination, so if the humans think some youkai can reproduce sexually, then they can. If they think some youkai just fade into existence, then so do they. If they think some humans are actually youkai, then they might turn into youkai. The line between human and youkai is kinda blurry anyway. Ichirin was human, but she became youkai due to people fearing her hanging around Unzan too much.

And regarding my previous question...maybe Kanako is really Yasakatome and she married Take-Minakata before he was sealed. It would make her conquest of the Moriya Shrine happen earlier before Take-Minakata arrived at Suwa. Is it stated anywhere that Yasakatome was a Amatsukami or a Kunitsukami? And alternate theory would be that either Kanako or Suwako is a remnant of Take-Minakata. Like some part of him that escaped being sealed.