Author Topic: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)  (Read 430846 times)

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #450 on: July 03, 2013, 02:57:46 PM »
My intuition says some thing different to me.

Like, I can hear ZUN's thoughts, it'll be like... "I'll nerf Kagerou for the full game, she turned out to be too hard. I don't play Lunatic myself so i don't really test these things but it's really challenging people and that wasn't intended already in stage 3 so she'll definitely be nerfed. Scoring and resources looks fine but MarisaB should probably be nerfed a bit too. Then we'll just make Stage 4,5 and 6 be slightly more complicated Sekibankis and shower people with lives so that my wife can feel good about clearing a shmup on the hardest mode."

Or something like that. Yeah, TD scepticism hasn't withdrawn yet.  :V

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #451 on: July 03, 2013, 03:10:40 PM »
so that my wife can feel good about clearing a shmup on the hardest mode.

Stay classy bro.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #452 on: July 03, 2013, 05:45:03 PM »
The wife in this case is a metaphor but yeah you are right. I am sorry, bad metaphor.  :V

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #453 on: July 03, 2013, 06:24:06 PM »
Actually as I think of it, didn't ZUN mention her being an Easy Mode player? If so, that's one thing we have in common.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #454 on: July 03, 2013, 07:47:31 PM »
On the other hand, TD's first three stages don't shower you with resources the way DDC does. That's why I'm bracing for impact here.

As you say, we won't know before the full game, but the totally groundless feeling I'm getting thus far from DDC is "here, have a crapload of lives and bombs - you'll need them!" Just my intuition, nothing more.

Tengukami, I think that you may be onto something there. Because if you're right, then ZUN is not going to nerf anyone, and Kagerou is only a taste of how the rest of the game will be, which is going to sting once the full game comes out and people try their hand on Stage 4, which is where most Touhou games go "Okay, enough with the kid gloves. Let's play for real now.", and start eating up bombs and lives like it's going out of style.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #455 on: July 03, 2013, 07:51:41 PM »
I wonder if the fourth boss will be different for each character, like EoSD, PCB, and IN. It is to make a player play all three scenarios.
Maybe if that comes true, the fifth boss will have a bullet affecting gimmick.
Sakuya with her time stopping ability
Youmu with her sword slash ability, also slows down time.
Reisen with the illusion ability.
These will probably not come true, but it's worth a shot.

I think DDC is hard because I can't beat stage 2 after so many attempts.
The second boss creeps me out too. Her head follows you...
And, it seems like all the bosses are of new species. They also seem to have a more japanese-like name. I thought this since TD. Not to be racist. No offense to those people.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #456 on: July 03, 2013, 09:22:47 PM »
Because if you're right, then ZUN is not going to nerf anyone, and Kagerou is only a taste of how the rest of the game will be, which is going to sting once the full game comes out and people try their hand on Stage 4, which is where most Touhou games go "Okay, enough with the kid gloves. Let's play for real now.", and start eating up bombs and lives like it's going out of style.

I sincerely hope this is true. I definitely hope Kagerou is only a taste of things to come!

They also seem to have a more japanese-like name. I thought this since TD. Not to be racist. No offense to those people.

What do you mean by this? Aside from the occasional character with a non-japanese name (mostly from 6 and 7) pretty much all Touhou characters have Japanese names.

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #457 on: July 04, 2013, 08:59:17 PM »
They are more confusing in how it's pronounced.
Touhou 12 had names like Shou, Byakuren, Ichirin which I found easy to remember because they had less two letter syllables. Shou. I-chi-rin. Bya-ku-ren.
Then Touhou 13 got names like Mononobe, Toyosatomimi which I find harder to remember. Each syllable basically consisted of two letters. Mo-no-no-be. To-yo-sa-to-mi-mi.
It's not really, more japanese, it's just more confusing and harder to remember as the games go on.
I can't remember any of Touhou 14's character, after seeing the names for so many times.

And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.
Currently a normal player

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #458 on: July 04, 2013, 09:04:27 PM »
I can't remember any of Touhou 14's character, after seeing the names for so many times.

I remember them all except Sekibankis last name. Memorize harder :V

EDIT: Apparently because she doesn't have any. Forgot that part too. Three of four characters doesn't even have last names Lavalake. Come on now!  :D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 09:06:32 PM by Zengeku »

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #459 on: July 04, 2013, 11:36:04 PM »
Oh yeah. Maybe it's just the fandom doesn't have much of these characters yet.
Now that I think about it. I seem to have remembered the second and third boss' first name.
I related Kagerou with Kaguya, because they both have something to do with the moon, and their names are kind of alike.
I related Sekibanki's name with Kouichi Sakakibara from the "Another" anime, because his last same and her first sound kind of alike, in my opinion.
I just need to remember Wakasagihime's.

Otherwise, I hope the next 3 bosses have two forms. A western form, and a japanese form. Like Keine, except with cultures. It goes along the lines of the theory of two cultures in this game.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #460 on: July 05, 2013, 12:17:38 PM »
Relating to alternate routes, I have a feeling that the choice of Shottype A or B (weapon or no weapon) will have an effect as well.

Tengukami

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #461 on: July 05, 2013, 12:24:54 PM »
And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.

I was under the impression he wasn't making new games custom fine-tuned to each iteration of the Windows operating system; there's PC-98, and then just Windows.

This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #462 on: July 05, 2013, 01:05:03 PM »
This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?

With Windows 9 you take a corkscrew, bore a small hole into the corner of your head, and plug in a USB stick carrying the Touhou 19.5 demo.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #463 on: July 05, 2013, 01:06:56 PM »
Well, there's already MacOSX 9 Maverick which focuses on energy efficiency, speed (Safari is now 30x faster than Google Chrome, I think), and new file directory systems that feature tags., so Windows will be forced to respond with an even more streamlined OS. Also, I think that in a few years, the entire directory system will be changed, so that will require ZUN to use a new file system in order to fully utilize the new graphics, etc.

...So maybe the Windows 9 era WILL be different (then again, this is all conjecture).

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #464 on: July 05, 2013, 06:28:45 PM »
I like how the conversation is turning into a Window 9 Era conversation. -Sarcasm-

I went back and found a timeline of release dates of games. I just took notice of something.
Touhou 5 ~ 6 had a break in between.
Switching the era.
Environment Affecting theme starts.

Touhou 9 ~ 10 had a break in between.
Starting from scratch.
Religion theme starts.

Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?

I'm pretty sure if there is a theme, ZUN won't switch to another era in the middle of the theme.
Plus, games usually get a difficulty curve on stage 4. It started in stage 3 now? Or is there a even bigger difficulty curve?
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #465 on: July 05, 2013, 06:56:18 PM »
This "Windows 9" you mention does sound troubling. If 8 is for tablets, what will 9 be for?

Tablets as well. M$ has a nasty habit of making releases of the "next big thing" really crappy then releasing a tolerable successor a couple of years later.


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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #466 on: July 05, 2013, 07:24:06 PM »
Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?

No, the engine remained mostly as it was in 10D, there was no rewriting from scratch like in other cases.

Also, you can say that there was also a break between Touhou 12 ~ 13 (decimal-numbered games don't count since they don't contribute anything to the "main arc"), so I think timeline doesn't matter.

New theme is a possibility, though. I remember someone suggesting there will be a "tsukumogami arc" from now on.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #467 on: July 05, 2013, 07:46:08 PM »
UFO, TD, and DDC each had two-year intervals between their releases, but I don't see any indication of "era changes" in those periods. TD still kept to the religious theme of recent games, and DDC's "late" release is mostly likely because ZUN wanted to spend time with his wife (perfectly understandable). Also, neither game was redesigned from scratch, as others have mentioned.

Though there might be merit to the idea that the story arc might change, as HM seems designed as a culmination of all the religious forces that have been introduced lately (don't quote me on that though, I haven't looked into the game's final story yet).
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #468 on: July 05, 2013, 08:19:39 PM »
The only thing was, there were 3 games between UFO and TD. That also takes time and makes up for the two year break.
But then again... HM was released 2 years after TD. So I don't know.
And could be for the reason of spending time with his wife.
But I'm pretty sure this is not a religious theme anymore.

But, what about the difficulty curve of stage 3? Does it replace stage 4 or is there a bigger one.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #469 on: July 05, 2013, 08:55:20 PM »
But, what about the difficulty curve of stage 3? Does it replace stage 4 or is there a bigger one.

Don't underestimate ZUN. He can make the rest of the game so hard that even stage 3 will seem like a relaxing walk in the park.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #470 on: July 05, 2013, 10:02:56 PM »
And I hope there is no Window 9 era. I'm fine with ZUN staying in the window era.

That doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #471 on: July 06, 2013, 04:07:26 AM »
I like how the conversation is turning into a Window 9 Era conversation. -Sarcasm-

I went back and found a timeline of release dates of games. I just took notice of something.
Touhou 5 ~ 6 had a break in between.
Switching the era.
Environment Affecting theme starts.

Touhou 9 ~ 10 had a break in between.
Starting from scratch.
Religion theme starts.

Touhou 13 ~ 14 has a break in between.
I'm pretty sure this means the whole game has started from scratch.
Possibly, a new theme starts. Anyone think they know what this new theme is?


TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.

Kirin no Sora

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #472 on: July 06, 2013, 04:49:16 AM »
TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.

what. ...just, what.

There are no words to describe what has been said.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #473 on: July 06, 2013, 05:08:26 AM »
TH01-05 - Dreadful PC-98 era
TH06-09 - Gensokyo`s entire environment era
TH10-13.5 - Great Religion Wars era
TH14-15 - The Last Rebellion (Reimu and Marisa dies after TH15)

ZUN is already married and he is getting old, after he made TH15, He must sell his Touhou Franchise to Amusement Makers because he doesn`t want his life to be complicated about his wife and games, so this is why he cares more about his wife until they have their son/daughter.

TH16 is about the new era and owned by Amusement Makers, PC-98 characters will return, Windows era characters is still active but they don`t show up.
Reimu turned into God with casual clothes after her death in TH15, Marisa turned into an Angel with pretty clothes after her death in TH15.

The game plot for the new era of TH16 and above is about God Reimu and Angel Marisa will go outside of Gensokyo to exterminate all Youkai all around Japan until the Youkais will go extinct.
EXCLUSIVE CONCEPT ART OF GOD REIMU AND ANGEL MARISA
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #474 on: July 06, 2013, 06:38:04 AM »
<snip>

Amusement Makers is a college club.

Why would you ever think that someone would make a Touhou game about youkai going extinct anyway? The entire point of Gensokyo is that youkai can live relatively peacefully, separate from the outside world.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #476 on: July 06, 2013, 08:05:14 AM »
You are all talking about Kagerou being such a sudden difficulty spike, but I don't really feel it. If there is a stage 3 boss that turned up the difficulty a lot from previous stage I think about Keine but not really anybody else. Her nonspells where really clustered, her final spell very claustrophobic.... actually everything about her attacks was really dense.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #477 on: July 06, 2013, 03:01:50 PM »
Amusement Makers is a college club.

Why would you ever think that someone would make a Touhou game about youkai going extinct anyway? The entire point of Gensokyo is that youkai can live relatively peacefully, separate from the outside world.

Oh i get it, then ZUN will sell touhou franchise to DANGOYA (the one who made Kekkai Gensou Rokukyou Mythical Mirror).

For the new era of Touhou
God Reimu can manipulate the boundaries anywhere (like Yukari`s ability), light energy shape-shifting ability and Spell card mixer.
Angel Marisa can control 10 mini-hakero flying around and her master spark is much bigger than ever, also her magic ability is similar to Sariel and Gengetsu.
Future Sakuya is a vampire hunter, her knives can shoot lasers while flying like funnels, if she can`t control her knives properly, it may explode in impact.
Future Youmu wears a high school uniform, she is a sword collector, she can summon 100,000 swords (Just like Gates of Babylon from Fate anime series).
Future Sanae is so casual and her new spellcards is all about Christian bible references.

Everytime they kill every single Youkai, Dead youkai will be reborn into human again, Good youkai will be sent to Gensokyo while Bad youkai will be killed.
Generic enemies are no longer small fairies, Walking Onis and Generic random small youkai will become the new generic enemies.
The final destination of their journey will be Kyoto, the place were indestructible overpowered Youkai live.

Konngara, Fake Amaterasu and Lilith will be the last final boss for the new era of touhou.

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #478 on: July 06, 2013, 04:14:33 PM »
Future Sakuya is a vampire hunter
Compared to this, everything else makes alot of sense.

About the game soundtrack, my opinion would be:
Stage themes are really good and the title theme is great.
Stage 1 boss theme is probably my favorite so far. It feels simple but catchy. Stage 2 boss theme has a nice melody but hasn't really caught my attention yet. Stage 3 boss theme feels strange. It is good, but the messy intro kind of ruins it for me.

Gameplay is solid and the new effects are appealing. But I don't really know why Reimus portrait in this game looks so weird to me.

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #479 on: July 06, 2013, 05:57:57 PM »
I think there's a clearly differentiation of eras here.

The first era has a one year break of game release after PoFV, during which we get Perfect Memento.
The second era has a one year break of game release after TD, during which we get Symposium. I think HM was supposed to be part of this era but was delayed since Tasofro had to make the game from scratch.

If this pattern doesn't break, this new era will probably end after TH17 and ZUN will release another Akyuu book before TH18.