Author Topic: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)  (Read 431022 times)

Mayson

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2013, 06:08:54 AM »
@Mayson: So just because ZUN did this once, you think he'll do it again in this different game? Interesting.
Just a speculation in reaction to Amaterasus comment regarding Cirno as extra midboss.  :V Also, wouldn't be the first time. Zun did pull it in UFO with Kogasa too after all.

Regarding the comments on the difficulty: Don't forget that the difficulty level always sharply increases at stage 4, it has been like that since the Windows games essentially. So no point in judging the game as too easy before it even releases.

EthanSilver

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2013, 06:31:33 AM »
EDIT: Also, Orin got a "voice" in SA, so this is actually the second time it's happened.
Oh hey, that's right! Forgot about her, my bad.

...Kagerou's still awesome though. :)


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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2013, 06:36:44 AM »
Also, I'd say Kagerou will be the extra stage midboss because of... (spoiler ahead)
Spoiler:
"Kagerou Imaizumi's theme.

I tried giving it a midboss-ish feeling.
 Ehh, although it's stage 3.

By the way, since this full moon is real, she can transform too." -Quote from Touhouwiki.net

Full moon? Transformation? That should give everyone who played IN an instant flashback to Keine.

It's already the night of the full moon in stage 3, and she already transforms in stage 3, so there really isn't any reason for her to come back in the extra stage.

Mayson

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2013, 06:38:21 AM »
It's already the night of the full moon in stage 3, and she already transforms in stage 3, so there really isn't any reason for her to come back in the extra stage.
Actually, you're right.  :blush:

BT

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2013, 07:32:58 AM »
I recorded a demonstration video to show how dumb the game is right now. Hopefully ZUN will apply the necessary changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buAxFMJ4dZc
:(

Please ZUN. All you need is a penalty for bombing and 99% of your problems disappear.
No.

The simple fix to this is for the bomb to stop canceling bullets. It can keep churning out power items, but every bullet that hits it should go right through it. Also, if it the bomb itself does some good damage to enemies / bosses, it should stop doing so. The point of using the bomb should be for the resources, after careful planning. (And, well, PoC. Shucks.)

There's also a fix to the bomb -> gain "PoC" thing. Just make it so you actually have to be above the PoC for bonuses to take effect. =.= Bombs can still auto-collect but you'll just get no bonuses from it because you're not at the top of the screen.

Also RE: this.
Dammit, the werewolf is slapping my shit so hard I don't even. She's harder than Orin. I couldn't do ANY of the spells, and the non-spells wall me after one or two waves.
Don't know how she compares to Orin or Shou, but she's certainly the hardest Stage 3 boss in the series. :)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:38:02 AM by BT »

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2013, 07:54:36 AM »
It still feels like we're visiting old locations to kick these Youkai girl's asses and try to hunt down the culprit where she might be hiding.
- Misty lake
- < cannot identify stage 2 proper, road to human village? >
- Mana leaking bamboo forest

They seem to be more outside locations where these rebelling youkai might be hiding/causing trouble. Also by going through the stages, I would almost say we visited, EoSD location, PCB location and a IN location so far. Would next stages be a remote location from MoF, SA or UFO?

Hatateru

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2013, 08:01:21 AM »
I would almost say we visited, EoSD location, PCB location and a IN location so far. Would next stages be a remote location from MoF, SA or UFO?

I like where this is going
And then a sacked Sakuya told everyone that Flandre was one of her ex-bosses

Heian_Alien

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #127 on: May 27, 2013, 09:05:49 AM »
This game is better than I had expected. The characters have a new feeling to them without being out of place.(like Kokoro in a certain other game).
The music has taken a turn for the better, although it seems pretty hard to arrange. It's not just a melody or two anymore. It feels more complex now and is less catchy as a result.
The stages feel a bit on the easy side compared to other Lunatics, probably due to the resource gathering gimmick. The bosses are hard, especially Kagerou. Is her midboss spell even possible?!
Still,Rokurowhatsisname is not at Kogasa's level.

Do I seriously die to Cirno midboss spell now?
Is the Stage 1 boss actually at least threatening?
In my 2hu? :V

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #128 on: May 27, 2013, 09:17:50 AM »
Geez I'm dumb.  I've said previously stage 3 had no source of reflection but then I remembered the moon was being shown on the damn ground.  That makes every stage so far have a reflecting surface, I wonder if that has to do with the bosses' violence.  It also relates to the whole reverse/inverted/mirrored theme the game seems to have.

BT

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #129 on: May 27, 2013, 09:31:02 AM »
The music has taken a turn for the better, although it seems pretty hard to arrange. It's not just a melody or two anymore. It feels more complex now and is less catchy as a result.
Yep, bingo, though I'm not sure about them being less catchy. :V I think arranges will just try to simplify things or work with one / two base tunes. I already have a good idea for a piano arrangement of Kagerou's theme, would you believe it?
The stages feel a bit on the easy side compared to other Lunatics, probably due to the resource gathering gimmick. The bosses are hard, especially Kagerou. Is her midboss spell even possible?!
The stages are really fun because PoC'ing is really risky and the constant stream of enemies is just great. Not very hard if you're ignoring the gimmick, yeah. As for the midboss spell... I wish I'd have been able to save that replay.
Do I seriously die to Cirno midboss spell now?
Is the Stage 1 boss actually at least threatening?
In my 2hu? :V
Blame the jellybeans. It's legitimately kind of challenging. As for the stage 1 boss... best stage 1 boss in the series. :V

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2013, 09:31:35 AM »
There is no reflection in stage 2 though. And water is naturally to be known reflective. So far there hasn't been any hints of mirrors or anything. Unless I am missing things.

BT

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2013, 09:37:22 AM »
I think the whole thing with mirrors is that the two routes (A and B) are "mirror" routes, where the character is much more violent in A, the violent mirror of the character. Ties up well with Roukan's theory.

Piranha

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #132 on: May 27, 2013, 09:44:01 AM »
Blame the jellybeans. It's legitimately kind of challenging. As for the stage 1 boss... best stage 1 boss in the series. :V

Aside from the fact I REALLY like her design and the new ZUN-style in this game: the boss fight itself is loads of fun. I love timing out the first spell (or capturing it at the very last second), because it grows stronger with every wave.
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Extra stages cleared: EoSD (ReimuB), PCB (ReimuB)
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Flan27

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #133 on: May 27, 2013, 10:10:53 AM »
I'd say that Wakasagihime is my favorite character so far.  I think it was the Dept. Heaven series that turned me on to mermaids.  By the way, the youkai in this game are indeed very youkai-ish.  I can see where Zun is coming from with his "Neo-Retro" thing.
I can't think of anything clever to put here.

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #134 on: May 27, 2013, 10:23:42 AM »
Not only that but y'know, there's a huge mirror on the title screen.  That, and all times the screen's colors get inverted.   And yeah, the characters are oddly more violent when using their possessed weapons.  Maybe the plot will have to do with vengeful spirits again?

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #135 on: May 27, 2013, 10:31:20 AM »
I take back everything I said about the soundtrack being dissapointing. Really starting to like most of the tracks now. It's not godly, but it's an overall pretty good soundtrack.

And the danmaku gets a lot more interesting in Hard Mode than normal, and while gameplay videos of lunatic (and what I've gotten to) seem promising.

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #136 on: May 27, 2013, 11:11:16 AM »
I think I am so confused in facts from both game articles and maintenance that I indeed forgot the huge green mirror in the opening screen. How silly of me.


BT

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #137 on: May 27, 2013, 11:12:48 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsTfxNkGOzg
Some of the things I talked about earlier. I'm loving these stages.

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #138 on: May 27, 2013, 01:03:52 PM »
Oh yess!  I've actually been so eager to see score runs of DDC, thanks a lot for that BT!  I always thought people would bomb more considering the huge number of power points you can get though.  They musn't give as much as graze I guess.

And hey Helepolis, it happens!

BT

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #139 on: May 27, 2013, 01:06:23 PM »
Sorry to let you down but that's not what you should be expecting. Look at the scoring thread if you want some real strats - I was just playing around with graze. (though Stage 1 shouldn't be bomb-happy anyway)

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #140 on: May 27, 2013, 01:09:30 PM »
Someone mentioned Amanojaku here. that was one of my theories concernign the culprit of Hopeless Masquerade, but it can fit in this story so much better, than there ( ties with Bishamonten were a bit of misdirection in that case). I really hope that this time we will se one in action - I guess manipulation of behaviour/desires/will would be it's specialty. And it woudl probabbly be an oni  :derp:

GuardianTempest

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #141 on: May 27, 2013, 01:24:39 PM »
Listening to the music, it seems that ZUN is focusing on cymbals and other 'clashing' sounds...could there be a connection?

Sparen

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2013, 01:46:42 PM »
Listening to the music, it seems that ZUN is focusing on cymbals and other 'clashing' sounds...could there be a connection?

Perhaps. This game is pretty vicious in both player attacks and music. I mean, COME ON. Corrupt Reimu's bomb makes Reimu look like Flandre Scarlet on a rampage.

Helepolis

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2013, 02:20:09 PM »
If I have to assume the translations on the wiki for the demo prologue is to be true, then  I still don't see a relation to the mirror being shown on the opening screen. Either it is meant to show a symbolic appearance of "reflect upon your actions" or any sense.

The dialogues from Sakuya and Reimu express worry about their weapons. http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Double_Dealing_Character/Story/Sakuya_A%27s_Scenario
Code: [Select]
Sakuya A
今日は何かこのナイフが I can't seem to hold back
抑えきれなくて?? this knife today...

Reimu A
このお祓い棒のことも I want to know about this
気になるしな purification rod, too.

Marisa seems to be heavily under the effect as she doesn't make any sense. As Roukan pointed out. The weapons are having bad influence on the girls. It no longer needs to be a speculation if the dialogue translations are true. Not to mention we can clearly see Reimu going from questionable in Stage 1 to quite aggressive in Stage 3.  Marisa seems to be lost already from stage 3. Sakuya is swaying between it seems.

I like the story plot so far in ZUN's prologue. A sinister and devious plot this time has been set up. And someone already mentioned if the girls might have to beat each other up like in IN. That would make a blast if such thing occurred.

Now I am getting more and more hyped for the full version. Agh.

Validon98

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2013, 02:30:42 PM »
Marisa does seem to be fighting the possession a little in her dialogue.
Code: [Select]
Marisa A/Possessed
I'm going to give you a full-body afro,
(Thinking)
I probably don't have to go that far...
or... do I?

She's already questioning it, but before that it seems she's completely under the spell of the possessed weapon. Hmm... of course, the black smoke has already been mentioned, so that's probably involved. I also think all three are trying to fight it, but it seems like they aren't succeeding. The only way for them to do that is to leave the weapons behind.
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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #145 on: May 27, 2013, 02:32:30 PM »
(Disclaimer: The following dissertation comes from someone that has yet to see Stage 1 in action.)

So I've been thinking about the issue of Cirno's sprite, and how some people have taken issue with it, but have been unable to properly articulate why. I admit that (a) I found myself disliking it when I first saw it as well, and (b) I couldn't properly articulate to  myself why I disliked it either. After spending some time dwelling on it, I think I've realized what the problem is.

One of the many little touches I've been a huge fan of in these games is the design and animations of the boss sprites. In addition to things like waving arms, flapping wings, and wiggling legs, the sprites were routinely designed in such a way where you actually felt like you were squaring off against another person in a danmaku battle. Even in still images, their poses suggested obvious ways in which the sprites would animate to suggest movement around the battlefield (be it swift movement or lazy drifting), as well as obvious ways in which the sprite could attack with bullets, usually by having arms in various ready-to-fire positions that we've all grown accustomed to through Dragon Ball Z and countless other shounen franchises where people shoot energy from their limbs.

I look at the current Cirno sprite and see neither of these things. Back in EoSD and PCB, she would be leaning one way or the other, where a wing-flapping animation combined with drifting in the direction she was leaning made sense as a portrayal of movement, and she'd have one or both of her hands out a little in a way that attacking made sense. There is no obvious outlet for movement animation or attacking animation. Her attempt at perfect vertical symmetry has left both her body and her legs in an incredibly awkward position if she suddenly wants to move laterally, and having her arms akimbo does not lend itself to any sort of idea of where the bullets she shoots are coming from. Frankly, she looks superimposed on the screen, like you could take your cursor, hold-click her, and drag her across the screen like an application window with pose never changing and that's her movement animation. I honestly look at her and see nothing to suggest even how her pose would easily change to accommodate the needs to move and shoot.

Now, again, I have yet to see Stage 1 in action, so maybe there is a proper animation given to her. But just from looking at the stills that have been provided, I can't fathom what that proper animation could possibly be.
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Helepolis

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #146 on: May 27, 2013, 02:45:37 PM »
Well in all fairness, you people are complaining about ZUN's Cirno sprite while I've seen nobody complaining about Dark Spark or the Red Magic Circle behind the boss during fights. Because that is just being lazy. At least he took the effort of designing or attempting a new Cirno sprite. As a danmakufu scripter I take more note to the overall animation and graphics than just bitching about 1 midboss.

Because Dark Spark is just extremely lazy and the red magic circle looks very off with the X/Y flipping/movement.

Nothing personal to you Kilga, this is just a general thing. If you're going to bitch at ZUN's work, at least do it fair and judge the entire picture. But I guess people just want to see what they want to see. If you ask me, I find the wolf head for 3rd boss pretty dull as well in terms of animation. So yea. Where do we start?

On the subject of sprite/animation. Let us not forget Tewi from Imperishable Night. She has exactly 4 sprite animations. 1 for idle ( not even an animation range ) and 3 for the movement left/right where she leans. ZUN didn't bother updating this in PoFV even.

Just my concern.

Genso

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Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #147 on: May 27, 2013, 02:47:12 PM »
The plot for DDC kinda reminds me of the vampire incident in PMiSS. I wonder if the scale of this incident will be something like that.

Perhaps. This game is pretty vicious in both player attacks and music. I mean, COME ON. Corrupt Reimu's bomb makes Reimu look like Flandre Scarlet on a rampage.

And what's wrong with that? Though I do admit that Marisa's and Sakuya's A dialogue are pretty violent. Though nothing wrong with rampaging a bit.  :derp:

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #148 on: May 27, 2013, 02:48:41 PM »
Girls are now worshipping Khorne and are slaughtering.

Please wait warmly until it is ready.

Formless God

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #149 on: May 27, 2013, 02:50:21 PM »
Now I am getting more and more hyped for the full version. Agh.
Has a release date been confirmed?

Quote
The stages are really fun because PoC'ing is really risky and the constant stream of enemies is just great.
I thought the same, but I'm also skeptical about the later stages because you can only get so dense before PoC-ing becomes impossible.
Quote
I already have a good idea for a piano arrangement of Kagerou's theme, would you believe it?
As long as you get rid of the intro and unfuck the chorus