Author Topic: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)  (Read 431171 times)

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #810 on: August 03, 2013, 10:01:05 AM »
I actually don't mind if some shots turn out stronger and some weaker. That adds an additional difficulty diversity and makes sure players don't just park on one shot style if they want to be taken seriously (see "Now do it with Marisa" meme). As long as it's not IN's "so weak they time out spellcards" or MoF MarisaB's "bosses die in 5 seconds" kinds.

The Greatest Dog

  • Grazing at Mach 10
  • 90 Frames per Second GO!
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #811 on: August 03, 2013, 10:14:38 AM »
Hey, as long as the shots are all usable like it seems right now (with the exception of SakuyaB being kinda weak at the moment), then who are we to complain?
It's not like SA where you have one good Forward type, two poor man's variants of the Forward type, a bomb type, and... whatever Patchouli and Alice count as.

(I admit that I used ReimuC to 1cc SA Lunatic, though).

Drake

  • *
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #812 on: August 03, 2013, 10:18:35 AM »
I like how you are getting on each others necks by discussing how to nerf shottypes while it's all up to ZUNs whims anyways. I have the strange feeling he won't change much on the shottypes if he didn't change them much or at all between the first demo and the web-demo. (did he actually ever majorly change a shottype between demo and full game?)
So because he may never see me post and go "oh hey that guy might be onto something", it's pointless to criticize the existing decision? Is it pointless to criticize once the game is already done and released? That makes no sense. It's just discussion, and what I'd personally like to see changed in the shot types. The only reason I might reply on edge is because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.

And yes: off the top of my head he fixed SanaeB in UFO so that bombing on one pattern wouldn't damage the next pattern, along with her shot trajectory. I'm sure there's more.

It's obvious that many touhou-shottypes, if you know about there strange properties, can break a game but there is no one telling you to use these strange properties. If you are just playing normally and not abusing some things, it doesn't really matter, right?
Are you kidding. Are you really going down that route. What.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #813 on: August 03, 2013, 11:03:30 AM »
By the way, SakuyaB's gimmick is milking PIV items while shooting focused (think Guwange's coin stream at high chain). Does it have a great impact on scoring now? It might turn out that way in full game, in which case we'd have a deliberate "weak but good for scoring" shottype.

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #814 on: August 03, 2013, 11:11:13 AM »
So because he may never see me post and go "oh hey that guy might be onto something", it's pointless to criticize the existing decision? Is it pointless to criticize once the game is already done and released? That makes no sense. It's just discussion, and what I'd personally like to see changed in the shot types. The only reason I might reply on edge is because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.

Nono, don't understand me wrong. I don't meant to say you can't criticize ZUNs decisions or discuss how to make them better, that's what this thread is for, i guess, but I feel like it's pointless to get angry at eachother about something like that. Sorry, I just felt like this and some of the speculation on the finalboss went a bit far for what they are. Don't mind me if you think all is allright, though.

Are you kidding. Are you really going down that route. What.

I guess I am, because I don't really know what you are getting at with that comment. If you tell me what you mean I'm happy to listen. It's fairly easy to not abuse MarisaBs bomb in DDC or MarisaBs Level 3 Laser in MoF or Malicecanon in IN. It's your own choice to use them to there full "gamebreaking" extend - I feel gamebreaking isn't really the right word for them.
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #815 on: August 03, 2013, 11:50:29 AM »
I guess I am, because I don't really know what you are getting at with that comment. If you tell me what you mean I'm happy to listen. It's fairly easy to not abuse MarisaBs bomb in DDC or MarisaBs Level 3 Laser in MoF or Malicecanon in IN. It's your own choice to use them to there full "gamebreaking" extend - I feel gamebreaking isn't really the right word for them.

What you are talking about there is restricting yourself from using the options you are given because the options aren't tested thoroughly enough. You can't just choose to ignore certain things and still expect to keep up with the competition. World records in MoF uses MarisaB's laser glitch for example for speed kills when it's worth it.

7TC7

  • In best company
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #816 on: August 03, 2013, 12:17:39 PM »
What you are talking about there is restricting yourself from using the options you are given because the options aren't tested thoroughly enough. You can't just choose to ignore certain things and still expect to keep up with the competition. World records in MoF uses MarisaB's laser glitch for example for speed kills when it's worth it.

Okay, you are right. I didn't really think about competitions or speedrunning when making my statement. That's why I said "If you are just playing normally and not abusing some things, it doesn't really matter, right?". It was really just my opinion from my own perspective. My bad.  :3
< picture leads to my YouTube channel

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #817 on: August 03, 2013, 12:40:40 PM »
because some guy is telling me not to criticize something because he doesn't see what's wrong with it.
Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't. Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed. Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #818 on: August 03, 2013, 12:47:15 PM »
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 01:02:27 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #819 on: August 03, 2013, 01:24:16 PM »
Welp, hope the rest of the levels will have also AWESOME music like three previous/existing. Although I don't like "Dullahan under willow" much, but other tracks... yum!
Speaking of bosses. I think there will be mirror yokai who caused the trouble with the weapons. But will she be the Last boss (Stage 6) or not? And I really hope that Stage 6 boss isn't that one from cover because... I just don't feel Stage 6 from her, I feel Extra.
Also wonder will ZUN ever make another Phantasm stage?

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #820 on: August 03, 2013, 03:26:32 PM »
You can find out on the next episode Comiket.
About the players, I normally play as ReimuA so noting affects me.
There's no need to yell at each other for their opinions. I think we should change the subject because ZUN might not have fixed the problem.

So, I pretty sure the game will be harder than TD.
Currently a normal player

Zil

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #821 on: August 03, 2013, 03:29:55 PM »
Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't. Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed. Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).
What you're saying is basically "your opinion is different from mine so shut the fuck the up." The entire point of a discussion is people with differing opinions communicating with each other. Obviously Drake's going to defend his point; that's how arguing works. You, on the other hand, are covering your ears with your hands and telling everyone to go away. If you don't want to hear people talk about the game, then don't come to a thread the very purpose of which is talking about the game.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #822 on: August 03, 2013, 04:55:43 PM »
Ok, seriously. Drop the personal attacks. The elitism reeks, and it contributes nothing.

EDIT: To put it another way -

Totally Fine:
"I think [Character X] is broken/totally balanced because of X, Y and Z"
"I disagree. Consider the fact that A, B and C."
and so on.

Less OK:
"I'm right, you are wrong. Because of reasons that I will not specify."
"Shut up, you pleb, and come back when you play Lunatic."
and so on.

We get some great game discussions here. There is no reason for anyone to be telling anyone else to shut up or get out.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 05:27:08 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Touhou 14 - Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #823 on: August 03, 2013, 06:34:37 PM »
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.

im an expert zun is good

believe me im an expert

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #824 on: August 03, 2013, 06:41:39 PM »
It is my opinion that everything you have to say is objectively false. If you have any objections, let me refer you to my replay page.  ;)


Silent Harmony

  • Everybody needs the Pharmarcy
  • Justice never dies!
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #825 on: August 03, 2013, 06:53:19 PM »
Ok, seriously. Drop the personal attacks. The elitism reeks, and it contributes nothing.
Guys, there is literally nothing you can say once the Panel Of Experts here decide that ZUN has failed again, so you may as well just let it go.
Tengukami, I really love when you post, but something about these last two really rub me the wrong way. It almost like you're telling people to stop calling each other out while at the same time calling out the Lunatic players who are complaining (legitimately) about ZUN's history of shot-type balancing. Marisa's bomb in the trial is rediculous. It just is.

Also I have no problem with out "panel of experts" complaining about a game/genre they take seriously. I mean that's like saying fighting game professional players shouldn't complain when there's imbalance there. And I haven't seen a "panel" person send an uneducated claim, they back up their complaints with ways to fix the perceived problem. It's the people defending ZUN who are saying "I'm right, you're wrong" for the most part.

And honestly, the only Lunatic-related "attack" I've seen in this thread was Zengeku at the the top of the page, and I'm pretty sure even that was tongue-n-cheek.


*sigh* Sorry, carry on.

1CC List (all shmups)
League of Legends / Battle.net: Harmony11(#1694)

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #826 on: August 03, 2013, 06:59:07 PM »
I play to the demo and it is very easy... Normally, I play at Normal, but I play at Lunatic for this demo!!!

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #827 on: August 03, 2013, 07:34:22 PM »
And honestly, the only Lunatic-related "attack" I've seen in this thread was Zengeku at the the top of the page, and I'm pretty sure even that was tongue-n-cheek.

Yeah, you're right, that definitely wasn't an attack.  :D

CyberAngel

  • Retired
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #828 on: August 03, 2013, 07:40:09 PM »
Okay, took some time to research scores, and SakuyaB is indeed the highest scorer even this far. This will likely stay true in full game, since PIV only goes up, and she does it faster than anyone. While MarisaB is close behind, I predict a difficulty spike, so suiciding for bombs might need to be dropped.

On another note, SakuyaA bomb has a few drawbacks. First, initial bullet cancel only affects stuff within the circle. Fast bullets and lasers (if we'll have them further on) stay a problem. Second, you can't move for a second after activation AND getting hit. Worst case, this can make you a sitting duck and you bomb again or die anyway. I think these points balance it out. We'll see for sure in full game.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #829 on: August 03, 2013, 07:52:21 PM »
Tengukami, I really love when you post, but something about these last two really rub me the wrong way.

Well, thanks for that reasoned response. Let me elaborate.

The first quote was a semi-humorous remark about a thing that happens a lot on this site, in that there are a core group of players who find faults with pretty much every game ZUN has made. Some of their complaints are totally legit, some of them are ridiculous. Either way, this is a thing that happens, and once their opinions are set, they seldom change.

The second quote doesn't even single out any one particular person or group of people. It is a request that there be an informed discussion. This is why I used the example, "I think [Character X] is broken/balanced because X, Y and Z" - like Drake did - with a retort being something like, "I disagree. Consider for example A, B and C", like myself and C.Angel did. That's an informed discussion of the game. What I think is less cool is when difficulty level is used as a sort of "my opinion matters more" bludgeon (as Zengeku jokingly referred to; it is something that can happen in these discussions) or probably my least favorite device of all: "I'm just stating my opinion", which is usually code for, "I cannot defend my point with actual evidence, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway and throw a capslock hissy fit if I'm contradicted with actual evidence."

I'm not accusing any one individual or group of people of bad behavior, but as we were already moving into capslock and "why don't you leave the thread" territory, I was just dropping a reminder that we can have these sometimes very heated discussions like grown-ups if we want to.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

chum

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #830 on: August 03, 2013, 10:24:31 PM »
I captured VoWG once and this game doesn't have VoWG I think it needs more VoWG

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #831 on: August 03, 2013, 10:36:32 PM »
That's a very valid point. Everything needs more VoWG after all. That is indisputable. I can only think of few other things that would do more good for shmups, I can link you to my dropbox if you wanna know more.  :V

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #832 on: August 03, 2013, 10:40:37 PM »
My dream shmup is, in fact, nothing but successive boss fights, each one using VoWG, over and over again, at increasingly higher difficulty. No stages, no dialogue, and no music save for AC/DC's "Highway to Hell", played at faster speeds with each stage.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Drake

  • *
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #833 on: August 03, 2013, 10:41:40 PM »
Ammy it's a good thing you said that (previous post), because I was about to explode over what I saw as defending Rizado for awful reasons. Woop.
longpost is long warning warning

Well, it's YOUR opinion that they are broken. And in MY opinion they aren't.
Two opinions are not given equal weight just because they are opinions. You can't just hide behind "it's my opinion!" and expect that nobody can touch you; that isn't how discussion works. If you want to be taken seriously, give actual reasons why people should think your opinions hold any ground. An opinion means nothing without information behind it.
Quote
Why I said not to blame SakuyaA and MarisaB? Because you said it like YOUR opinion is universal truth and they MUST be nerfed.
I never said my opinion is universal truth or anything of the sort. What I did do is state what parts of each shot type were off-balance in relation to the output of the other characters and their individual ability to crush the game. If you really wanted me to, I could back all of those statements up with data and replays. It would waste a bunch of my time, but I could. The point is that any sufficiently-aware player, and by that I mean any player who's been playing Touhou enough that they actually have the ability to compare and contrast the pros and cons of certain shot types (basically, Normal players), should be able to come to these conclusions themselves just by playing the different characters, or by watching other people play them. I shouldn't even have to explain this, this is so silly.

MarisaB's bomb is utterly broken on Lunatic and is still abuseable on Hard, as shown in many many videos already. It isn't abuseable (at least so far) on Normal and Easy. My suggested solution was to put a limit on the bomb such that only the abuses themselves are affected. If you have an issue with this suggestion, please let me hear it. I'm not going to brush you off because you play a lower difficulty, but so far you haven't said anything to back up your stance.

I also don't think SakuyaA is broken, and I never said it was. Unlike some other Touhou games, there isn't a massive power difference in shot types so far. If SakuyaA stayed the way she is, it wouldn't be a big deal. She's just very strong, and she also has a ton of utility. Generally, shot types with a lot of utility (i.e. Homing Reimu) are the weaker shot types, because that's just how you balance power and utility. If you didn't, it would overwhelm other shot types and would be able to easily crush the game.

Quote
Then I pointed that it's just MY opinion, but you anyway trying to critisize me because of it. What's your problem? We all have opinions on some things. Why I can't post my thoughts and you can only because my opinion is different?
Because you read my post and basically said "You're wrong, stop picking on these characters". It was a flat-out content-less reply in disagreement with a post I actually put thought into. It's an insult.
You can post your thoughts and opinions all you like. If I disagree with those opinions, I might reply to them by posting my thoughts and opinions. That's all fine and dandy, but as I said above, you need to actually back up your opinion, or it means nothing. If you weren't actually replying to me and had just said "I like the shot types how they are" or whatever, that's fine I can just ignore you. But it's like you're poking a beehive with a stick and then go "why did the bees sting me I was only having fun poking their hive with a stick".
Quote
Don't want to use MarisaB bomb? Then don't use it, it's not big deal. Game is already finished and I'm sure that ZUN didn't change game at all (in terms of shottypes and characters).
This is the same thing 7TC7 said and it's an absolutely empty argument. I don't even know where this sort of argument comes from out of people's heads, it's so silly. The fact that a shot type or bomb or whatever is unbalanced, just because it's on the player's side, doesn't mean it gets a free pass from criticism-land. If by explosion the shot type were instant-homing and killed every enemy on the screen and canceled bullets, would it still be fine as long as players who thought it was a terrible idea just ignored it and played pacifist? No, jeez. Just don't use the bomb? Well crap, now you don't have a bomb to use at all anymore. (Which, by the way, is my current problem, as I mentioned before!) If the exploit is super-duper broken like MoF's MarisaB, since the community will see that you weren't playing with the same rules, they won't acknowledge any accomplishment with it as equivalent to others anyways, so the whole argument of "just don't use it and let other people do what they want" is shallow and redundant of a suggestion at best. Even having all that said, it doesn't even matter that some people want to have an even playing ground, it's still friggin busted.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 02:01:00 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #834 on: August 03, 2013, 11:19:26 PM »
I don't think powering down SakuyaA's focus shot would hurt, that's for sure. It's challenging to use it well, though, and the unfocused spread is only of real utility close to the PoC. I could go either way on the bomb. I like the combination of the autocollect that I like in the other shottype I use, ReimuA, and the border bonus thing from PCB. ReimuA's homing shots, I think, are pretty powerful.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 11:23:13 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Drake

  • *
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #835 on: August 03, 2013, 11:39:33 PM »
Her bomb is definitely nice, yeah. I personally prefer bombs with minimal effects, so both SakuyaA and B's bombs work well for me.

As for ReimuA's shots though, you can look over at the shot data sticky and see that homing Reimu is always near the bottom end of the ranking. They aren't necessarily "weak", they're just weak relative to other characters. I'm not entirely sure how DDC Reimu stacks up, but considering ZUN is using the same shot behaviour as 10D Reimu I doubt it's changed much.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #836 on: August 04, 2013, 01:53:14 AM »
I like using Reimu A because it helps a lot in spells where I can't always be under the boss.
I usually play easy or normal, so I'm pretty bad and will sometimes move away from the boss just to dodge bullets.
Without using Reimu A's homing shots, I would be timing out a lot of spells.
I personally am 50/50 on this. I would like the shots to stay the same to create a variety, and for the different difficulties.
But the shots are kind of overpowered at the same time too.
I can't play Touhou 14 demo right now, so I can't test any farther.
Currently a normal player

The Greatest Dog

  • Grazing at Mach 10
  • 90 Frames per Second GO!
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #837 on: August 04, 2013, 06:01:27 AM »
With the exception of SakuyaB being kind of on the weak side, even at close range, I'm still overall impressed with how every shot is -capable- of being used well.
I mean, we don't have anything like MarisaB from UFO, right?

ReimuA is pretty powerful considering the utility. I'd almost consider her akin to MoF MarisaC with how you can clear stages with it. But the bomb is fairly short range.
That never stopped people from using ReimuB in PCB, did it?
ReimuB is very 10D like. Which isn't a bad thing. Although it bothers me that her needles are too spaced out to entirely hit a boss.
I immediately dismissed MarisaA as a terrible shot only useful for her bomb but ever since I learned that she has (quite potent!) shotgun damage, I've been using her most.

And everyone else has already discussed MarisaB and Sakuya enough for me to say anything.

Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #838 on: August 04, 2013, 11:22:55 AM »
With the exception of SakuyaB being kind of on the weak side, even at close range, I'm still overall impressed with how every shot is -capable- of being used well.
I mean, we don't have anything like MarisaB from UFO, right?

UFO MarisaB is capable of being used well, what are you talking about.
 ;) ;) ;) ;)

Gray21oh

  • An excuse for a title
  • This is suppose to be nonsensical except it isn't
Re: Touhou 14 - 東方輝針城 ~ Double Dealing Character (Demo)
« Reply #839 on: August 05, 2013, 03:15:48 AM »
Hopefully I didn't miss much with how this discussion is going.

I tend to enjoy the game the most playing with ReimuA. It's powerful, it's good on some bosses and while the bomb is of short range, I think it's strong enough so it sorta balances out. I don't think I need to comment on ReimuB, basic TD shot type except the needles have wider reach. I guess thats a bit of a downside though since it doesn't beat bosses up fast?
MarisaA just screamed shotgun, and it does a serviceable job at it. I'd compare it to MarisaB in EoSD/PCB. MarisaB's bombs I will say are admitingly broken, enough so that it would probably be hard to see your power go below 2.00.
I believe you all know my dislike for Sakuya right? It's a tad more apperent here. I will say SakuyaA is fun to mess around with, but it's irritating when trying to bomb for items. Yet again I always get a sense of LLS in this game whenever I see a bunch of items fall and I find it impossible to get up to the border so I suppose thats why. I can defenitly see the balance with SakuyaB, but it's too weak for my personal liking. Most of the time I play casually and really only try to high score whenever I get an itch for it.

On a bit of a leftover note here, for as long as I've been playing the demo I've found the difficulty on hard devil-ish. That could be just me accustomed to how TD's hard difficulty is but even then, I think when compared to hard on SA it's a tad more jerkish.

Short summary: Shot types are okay, Hard is balls of the walls, can't wait till release and hope some screen leaks are fake.