Topic: Tales of Phantasmal Land Shut Up And Jam Gaiden (WIP TTRPG - Recruiting Now!)  (Read 11568 times)

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sol35

  • Nickname: a touhou addict
uhh... ok. Ikari a few months ago come out with a new hp based system which uses the stats in different ways adding dodge,aim,block stats, he also created a few ways for non-combat stats to aid the combat, but that comes with a high risk if u fail. sorry we haven't said much about that change.

Yugian

  • Humble Blacksmith
  • If the soul preserves, Then Limits dont Exist.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Ninjaian
Hi!

Sorry to interrupt your logs with this GIGANTIC WALL OF TEXT, but I've run a oneshot in a slightly tweaked version of your patched system, and I thought I'd comment here with my post-game assessment.
Hoooly crap, we got a response, and from someones who's tried out the game mechanics from awhile back! Sorry we didn't get to you sooner!  :ohdear:
Here, give me a second to post up this log, and I'll answer your questions here. By the way, not a problem, these logs are to hype up people. If your interested, we are more then happy to help and do things other then post up giant logs.

UNDERGROUND V.S FIERY SPIRIT PT.2
Edit- NOTE ITS RAW. NO FANCY EDITING HERE

This time its a FULL log. no nonsense, no half copying. We got it down RIGHT HERE, from beginning to end. including a bit of the previous log. oops.
Left alone to fight and apparently abandoned by her teammate Parasee, Yamame holds a fruitless line. Alone against two foes, can she rise up to the task and face down Makoto, the Ghostly Pyromancer and Dango the Glutinous Fairy Of Fire?
Featuring!
  • A Sea of Flames!
  • RNG Bullshit!
  • The conclusive end of the match!
Still not featuring A Clocktower.
And if its TL;DR for you (And want to miss out on the most epic moments), our friendly resident Paladin will take care of the highlight reel!...
when he does. No rushing him. he's overworked.

Yugian

  • Humble Blacksmith
  • If the soul preserves, Then Limits dont Exist.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Ninjaian
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tl;dr The system was fun and good, we made some tweaks, your patches were really useful, and overall this is a cool but slightly broken system that we'd like to run again; read more if you want details.

Absolutely, thank you for even making the big block of text. It's really bad ass to hear that someone not only enjoyed the old system (Sorry we haven't given a concrete update. quite a few problems got solved in the last update... that we never released yet. sorry ;w;  ) but wants to keep using it. that's just... makes me and the original guy who kicked up this project fuzzy.  Please send more, we want more. Also, we are more than happy to send you updated versions as you desire. 
Also, feel  free to keep making those tweaks. this is still a work in progress, and even though we're trying, there's only so much we can think between the two of us. If you come up with anything that flows or smoothes over well, we want to try it.

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First off, the changes that were made so that we could run a simple 4 hour game that anyone could quickly pick up, were the following:
- Took out most of the classes -- we went with Youkai (of a few schticky types but all with basically the same racial parameters), God, Human, and Ghost.
Classes (Technically, they're races, but im not going nazi here >.<) are up to you for what's available. whilst the original book had them and we didn't want to remove them FOR the sake of player choice, we full heartedly love rule 0. Rule Zero being that 'The rules of the GM and the rules of the book may conflict, and the GM will be right in all circumstances'. trust us, we break our own rules quite a few times, so feel free to take what's available as a guideline and not the de-facto final mark. Plus, i full heartly agree with some races being gimicky/akward to fit in as fuck.
YOUUUUMUUUU. IM LOOKING AT YOU.
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- Took out Focus stance for simplicity's sake
I... don't remember this being a thing. Sorry that this was left in and confused people.
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- Removed Religion (was irrelevant to our scenario as a mechanic; any religiosity was a schtick thing we assumed players could do on their own)
Religion was added by Ikari as an optional bit and is entirely cool to remove.  Rule Zero is heavily in effect here, plus, if it doesn't fit the game then we aren't crying over the fact it wasn't included. XD
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- Removed Fandom Points and anything that could be bought with them; gave players 15 extra spell card points at the start of game to make up for this.
Interesting way of doings things. We scrapped the FP entirely ourselves to replace it with something else, but it's interesting to see someone take a different path then us on how to deal with this kind of (flawed) EXP system.
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- Disallowed the use of any given spell card more than once a fight, for balance and schtick reasons; first, enemies in Touhou never clone their cards in a fight, and second, there is little reason to create more than one spell card if you can use it more than once. You guys did fix a lot of the spam-card problem when you changed Invincibility and made bombs no longer refresh when you lose a life. (I'd rather the PCs have lots of cool cards than have PC98-bombs for flavor.)
Yeah, I agree with you here. Whilst the system in its current form hasn't evolved enough where we could easily fit such a thing in, I do find it kind of fishy that we can spam one kind of card and ride it to victory, when in the games and (Somewhat) the fighters, such spam was unheard of. The 15 spellcard points you gave everyone no doubt helped in this regard... actually, wait, we do have something in the new system that does help with this regard, but isn't to the extent you have it here.

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- Doubled the effect of Resilience on hitbox; this was entirely necessary because otherwise hitbox never got high enough to be an effective defense stat.
- Took out "points" from battle effects and instead made Graze give you 1/5 of a life every time you succeed at Grazing. This was a reasonable concept that we did not balance well, but it has potential and flavors like the games. Gaining lives from Graze means that someone with low Strike actually harms the party against a high-hitbox target because they end up healing the enemy. We're thinking of changing this to +(fraction) Bombs for every successful Graze.

Both of these got scrapped at the outset of the recreation. Ikari knows these reasons better than me, but otherwise, these rules don't exist. (Resilience has no effect on the hit box and was changed to a solid 1. You had to make a 2+ rule to land a hit... and well, THAT got heavily changed as well, but more on that later. Points where entirely removed.)
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- Capped chargen stats at 7.
...Uh... confused on what you meant here. sorry ^^:
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- Re-flavored hitbox to be "you are hit but not damaged" -- for example, bullets simply passing through the ghost, or missing the object-body of our tsukumogami.
Fluff/Rule Zero stuff, but yeah, Hitbox definately needed something little more then 'dead on hit'.
- Said that you can "break" spell cards by hitting someone during their card in battle; this causes spell cards to have a cooldown requiring a full night's sleep. This wasn't relevant to our oneshot, but it was a change, so we're posting here.

Interesting way of tackling the problem. Spell break isn't fully implemented in the new system yet, but i'll pass this idea to Ikari when i see him next time.
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- Lives refreshed after a night's sleep rather than at the end of an Incident, because this allowed for more difficult fights and makes multi-day Incidents not so punishing as a result.
Couldnt agree more. We've already made this change (9+ hours of sleep with proper care to oneself.)
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- Took out almost all mechanical benefit for every race. Humans got +1 to a non-combat stat; the prism youkai threw out random elements for standard attacks; the ghost got to phase through things. This was mostly used for flavor and interesting interactions; we had few enemy elemental weaknesses, and larger benefits showed up in the types of non-combat magic they could use.
We actually tackled quite a few things regarding the races, but im curious as to what races you DID use and their benefits. Prism Youkai? Could you please post up crunch on how they operated and/or sheets?
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- I know it's a little deviant from the universe, but we dictated that if spell card fights have no rules, you are knocked out at the end of losing all your lives, and you can die if you are coup-de-grace-d at the end of the fight after being rendered unconscious. (I like darker universes.)
Rule Zero, once again. Gensokyo is a bit darker then portrayed, and it is entirely up to you on how hard or soft the spell card rules are. after all, the rules are rather loose and easily have loopholes. its simply up to you how you want to run your boat. :3

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Problems we still saw with your current system as is we ran it:
- Strike is essential. You can't sacrifice Strike and actually do much in battle. This means that the correct option for any player who wants to have an actual effect on battle should pump their Strike as much as possible. We had someone who decided to go with a low-Strike character who had some hindrances to work around it, but she still never really hit anything.
- Cunning is effectively useless. Initiative matters only in the first round of combat, and if you don't oneshot the foe, it's as far as we can tell irrelevant. If the battle goes on a long time, one extra turn doesn't matter. Also, all my characters had Cunning 2 and nothing bad happened to them. (Because of this problem, they put nothing into that stat.)

Tackling these both in one shot. These both were the founding reasons we went all out for a new way to present the system and its rules. It got worse with the fact Ikari had taken out resolution. Within our first few sessions (I was an exception, making all my skills work around these stats and it was overwhelmingly powerful in the right situations), we realized how much you only needed Will and Finnese (Accuracy and Dodge) and how everything else was just dump stats. It got really bland and it sucked for people who were... say... skill monkeys like my ninja or a fighter who was somehow more magically potent then a mage who was more physically potent then the fighter. (What.)
To say the least, When we updated the game, we tackled the stat problem by making them generally have a direct use to skills and your ability to resist said skills in a logical manner. MAGES CAN BE MAGES AND WARRIORS CAN BE WARRIORS!~ YAY~
Aiming, Dodging and now Blocking where introduced to start everyone on the same page, then was able to be modified in order to give everyone their own edge in combat.

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- There is no way to gain CP. I assume you meant for the GM to hand it out, but there are way too many point types in this game, and there were no rules for when to give CP. Originally, Fandom Points gave you this, but we didn't like the meta-game schtick of Fandom Points. We'd rather this be rolled into level-ups like stat gains were.

The meta-game is entirely removed and we hated the concept from day one (LOOK AT ME IM QUIRKY NOW GIVE ME EXP). It is entirely GM based for when you want to throw those out. we keep these separate from leveling up due to the nature of building up a skill list (And where the real power comes from) that you can use whilst having your stats develop in a way that helps you get the most bang for your buck using your stick. given there isnt the two stats to dominate them all, this helps a crap ton.
Also, we threw out FP in favor of a new EXP system that was more clear in its usage.

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- Invincibility was awkward, though not clearly flawed, but it might want to change because the solution to invincibility was to have people delay their turns so that they didn't have to take potshots at invincible enemies. Not allowing delaying turns, locks players out of the fight. This might be the one time initiative matters, but if you can't ever change initiative order in battle by delaying, this turns initiative into a really punishing stat that prevents slow (compared to their team) people from ever fighting due to spell cards providing invincibility. Being slow compared to the enemy is one thing, but having initiative relative to your team matter results in some people feeling useless while other people carry the fight.
We haven't had a real issue with invincibility surprisingly. But i remember it being done differently than this. (Also, No delay turns? wha? I thought that was a thing. weird. Guess that wasnt in old system. KNOW THAT DELAY IS OKAY :I )
How we currently handle invincibility (At least through spell cards. no enemy yet has had an invinca move.). When someone pops a spell card, they're invincible for that attack. Then it goes to the next in line. If the card was death bombed (If that isnt in the old system, BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR DODGE ROLLS, you may pop your card and interrupt immediately, starting a flat attack action. nothing else as you're in the trance required to use the card. yes, you can DB a DB.), then it goes to the next person after the former attacker. If it was the person who dropped the card, skip it and move onto the next person. That person cannot land an attack yet (Which is a great time for things like self buffing spells or retreating to cover or even setting up a delay attack). THEN the spell card activates its next round in between the transitional period between turns. Note, if they don't have more than a Invincibility 1 that ALL cards come with, they become venerable and people can go to town. If they do, this repeats until they reach a round where they do not have a 'invincibility frame' or the card ends. Note, they CANNOT DO ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THEN SEE THE CARD THROUGH.

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- Your die Sets (+ and - D6 dice) are clunky and awkward and equivalent to 2D6 - 7 as a formula. This isn't an incredibly annoying problem, but maybe plunk it in the rules for folks who don't like distinguishing dice and just want to add dice.
They can be, and we're going to stick with it sadly. One of the old things we can't exactly get rid of without breaking the back of the system, given the ENTIRE game is built around it. Thankfully, the Formula is only 2d6 now. (Positive Die - Negative die + Stat (Or Aim/Defense if it is an attack roll)). The most extreme the system gets with raw dice is +5 to -5.

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Other potential problems (like things not covered in oneshots)
- Growth. There are two clearly superior stats if you follow growth upwards; these are Strike and your choice of Hitbox or Evasion. Pick one of those and throw all your points in it, or if it's rate-limited as to how many points you can put into these, pick Strike and one defense stat and jack them both up as high as you can. Doing anything else results in enemies and allies rapidly becoming much stronger than you. Possible solution: decrease growth rate to less than a point per level and cap stats with a cap that increases more slowly than you gain points. This prevents players from focusing on the two aforementioned stats.
- Small changes in stats massively affect hit chance, especially if stats are all close to each other, such as near game start.

Already taken care of. :3
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- Spell cards don't grow well, even with our patch. It's fairly easy to optimize spell cards even with the one-per-bomb flavor. It's fine at chargen, but in late game cards will start looking a lot like each other. We're still musing on how to fix this.
I have to agree here. Surprisingly, its a lot harder to make the spell card rules... 'work', per say. We haven't changed them much for new system, other than rebalance costs a littttle bit, but we ARE moving towards a way how we can make these little suckers truly special. Fluffwise, we got them down, but we cant give them the proper crunching we want them to be.
Trust us, we will find a way. Somehow, somewhere. we already got the stat problem fixed, so no doubt we can give spell cards some... er... win cards. or something. bad pun 8D
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- It is my associate here's opinion (he played and is helping me write this, as the resident Mechanics Nerd) that having combat and non-combat stats be the same thing, is problematic. Anyone who wants to do a specific optimization for combat suddenly finds their character's personality changing to fit a certain pattern that may not actually be related to what they want their character to be like. Personality and battle should be relatively independent (although feel free to line them up, but mechanically enforcing this is a problem).

Right, i can see that being a problem. Rule Zero Here. (Also, Stat clean up.) along with the fact that well... a system emphasizing RPing and free form characters having these 'forced directions' is kind of... hypocritically bad.
We do have a skill list (*Realizes he called other things skills up above... agh. call them ablities*) that people can dump points into that are generally not combat related... um... that could help. A lot. They also use the 'empty' stats as well.

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Good things!
- The battle system is amazingly Touhou schticky. We had all kinds of insane collisions between spell cards and had so much fun with this. At one point we had 3 spell cards going off in the same turn. This is basically how actual multi-way danmaku fights would actually go. :P
Hell yes. That sounds awesome, i wish i could of seen that. You have a log of that? XD
The major thing about this system is that we're trying to be 'HERE! Have a bunch of things you can do and some points to do it with! talk with your GM and make something freaking awesome!' We're working on standardizing a few things, but yes. we want that shitckyness. In our current game, we have a ghost who didnt realize he was a dead pyromancer, A white wolf samurai who was once human, a french mage (Whos the oldest gensokyan here, yet only the body of a child), a Japanese fortune teller who reads tarrot and an Oni who thinks that rice are flesh eatting Parasites. Their ablities are nuts, going from Flaming death, danmaku that was bounced back by pure martial skill or just the oni going 'Screw you, i have a giant goddamn boulder' and throwing it. All fair game. :3 (Also, Rule Zero here for sure XD)
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- With our patch, hitbox and evade both were valid and useful defensive stats on their own, and it was reasonable to have characters pick one or the other. We couldn't tell which one was clearly better, although this does discourage people from splitting between both -- you had to choose one. We consider this fine and even a good thing. (We didn't want hitbox being a dump stat.)
Whilst i cant really comment too well, given we redesigned the system in a different way, hearing that you were able to make the system work for you in a way that we didnt is again, kick ass and i applogize ahead of time if we steal a few of these. :3
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- The battle system is easy to pick up, although we did dump Focus to make this easier. We were able to introduce new players to the system, chargen, and run an entire oneshot in 6 hours.
Good call. Focus, again, i dont know why that was in there, but it's awesome to hear that the battle system isn't too complicated at all. In fact, now looking at it, it's really set up that seems to hurt the most for time and not the actual session. Still, a 6 hour game with your first go? your hella faster then us.
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- Battles were fast-paced. No one got bogged down in die-rolling or number crunching.
I have a fear in the back of my mind we might of screwed this one up in the new system, but i seriously doubt it. (We only reassigned a few things and the ability to hit/get hit is fairly equal.). A goal is fast paced combat with meaning and badass fluffier to make it awesome. If we have achieved that, we can go get the hookers and blackjack prepared.

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Further questions:
- You did mean to eliminate spell card use during Focus, right? This is what I assumed, because otherwise there is no good reason whatsoever to be not in Focus all the time.
Focus is entirely gone as far as im aware of. Wasnt around when i joined up, never seen it.
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- What can you do to make late-game spell cards interesting, besides World Effects? We understand that Last Words and Survival Cards are cool, but we want normal spell cards to get cooler as well.
To be 100% honest, the current model only really support 'cool cards' for the normal cards in fluff and not crunch.... We do need to address this, and we will, given that it has now presented itself as a problem ^^;
However, i do remember ikari updating this part and saying he added 'options' (As in, options from side scrolling shoot em ups where your in a plane and can shoot things one way or switch it to another depending on what power-up's you got.) when he repriced a few things, so maybe that could be a small taste of what's to come... Also, if you have ideas, throw us over a word. Because, maybe you already got like... 50 ideas and we could use some. XD
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- Depending on how much you trust the GM, it may be good to dramatically reduce the number of classes and allow player creativity, not to mention having tons of classes both feels like you're telling the players "here's all the variety you get" as well as providing lots of complexity for newcomers. Also, if there are set large benefits for being a certain class, then some players feel compelled to choose classes based on benefit, not on personal preference. If some GMs want to play around with the complexity of your fine-grained classes, that's fine, but note that it can be simplified so long as the GM and players have a good working relationship.
Actually, we were toying with the Races in that we wanted to expand on them. Give them more meaning. This kind of does go 180 to the suggestion though... eep.
Trust with the GM in this system becomes the corner-piece if it succeeds or fails. Even when we make a more official update that addresses problems and has more concrete numbers, we still want to leave the system open (Rule Zero) and let the GM's gauge the power scale.
I actually find the races being 'right there' more helpful in nature, but there does need to be a change- A section dedicated to the Youkai template. The last thing we want is "here's all the variety you get", this is still a system of 'PC and GM work out awesome so awesome happens', so us stifling creativity bad.
*Pulls out to do list*What we can do to try and reduce that feeling of 'oh god words words words/complexity complexity complexity' is to present the information better with the races that do exist from the book, and let people know before even heading to choose a race that the races themselves, whilst having great benifits, are not a mold that you must fit. Obviously, there are cultural differences and societical differences (A White wolf is very different than an Oni), but that white wolf could be a amazing body builder and the oni could be casting lighting bolt till the cows come home.
And of course, if none suit the fancy of the PC, The Youkai template could be used to help create a fitting race with helpful guidelines from the GM (Given that the youkai race is a raw custom and thus has to pass by the GM.)

Hope this sufficiently answers some questions. I apologize if i contradict or blundered up some answers, its kinda late here but, you know, surprise Reply, gotta respond.  :V
Again, open to feed back, and hope we can clear up things. Because we beh a community, and we help each other out because thats what you do to be awesome.  :V
Also, my block is twice the block of your block because i stole your block then made my own block! so hah!  :3
i win! dont feel guilty!

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
  • Nickname: Alcor
  • Gender: Female
Alcoraiden here, noting that I will be back with a Wall O' Text blow-by-blow in response soon. In the meantime, here's something.

For context, these posts are basically Alcor's team of herself and her friend, one being the story/schtick nerd, the other the mechanics nerd, and I run campaigns while he helps with numbers in the background and usually plays. (So I'm a GM; he's not a co-GM, but he helps me out when I get bogged down because I can't intuit mechanics well when I'm planning pure mechanics. Story is all me.) Right now, the mechanics nerd is not around, so I can't give you crunchy things, but now that you're interested, I will poke him with a stick so he dumps mechanic thinking all over you.

Also, I would really like whatever updated versions you have! HP for enemies would be a fun variant to try, and you've apparently made some changes that Ikari didn't write up in the old thread. (Also, forgive me, I didn't see that status effects had been addressed because that topic didn't make it into the intro table of contents post in the old thread. Mechanics Friend plowed through the whole rest of the thread after the final ToC topic and told me that status actually existed. Whoops.

"Capped stats at 7 for chargen" means "when you create a character, no stat can start above 7." We did this to prevent anyone from being hugely skewed at the start.

My thoughts on the large number of races you guys have: it's quite fine, but I think if/when I run a campaign, I won't be doing it. Not throwing off on you! I just like to keep the GM overhead low, and thinking about all the individual race mechanics is a bit intense. I do have a weird improv GMing style, though -- I like light systems and heavy stories. Rule 0 and all that. So actually, it does boil down to how "words words words complexity complexity complexity" are really not some GMs' style, and it overwhelms players who aren't into that, and that I think that having a system that does not require races to have the specific mechanical benefits you're giving them is good. (I am not saying this *doesn't* exist; I'm just stating the point. Not being Mechanics Friend, I can't intuit balance from a glance, but I guess nuking your race system for our oneshot didn't break everything. I actually don't know how independent your system is of the race traits.)

Apologies for all the Rule 0 variants. I just wanted to post a comprehensive "what we changed," even if it didn't matter much.

I can already tell you that Mechanics Friend is going to want Ikari's variants that solved the problems you mentioned were fixed ("two godstats" problem especially, but also any other changes you've made). He'll crunch at them then.

Regarding Focus: huh, I didn't know it had been removed. Okay then.

The Prism Youkai was a tsukumogami. "Prism" was just what its object body was, like Kogasa is an umbrella. I divided Youkai into four categories due to personal world schtick; if you don't want more Rule 0 fluff, I won't elaborate much, but they're Object, Plant, Animal, Concept, each with their own individual but mostly non-mechanical race benefits.

So you say you scrapped things, but I'm not finding in the old thread where that happened. Can you summarize the new changes? I didn't see changes to Hitbox, or that Graze was removed. Also, I don't think Graze is a massive abomination. :/ It has fun dynamics, at least the way we did it, and prevented the godstat problem to some extent (not really, but having two different defense possibilities was cool).

How do skills actually work now? All we got was that you guys were overhauling them.

With regards to invincibility...I'll throw this at Mechanics Friend later, but my post was a hypothetical "we don't know if you allowed delay, and this is why we think it's necessary," but looks like you allow delay, so there we go. :)


Last, I have to ask...what the heck is going on in your metagame here? ;) From your partial log with the fight with Yamame, so far Mechanics Friend and I have the following conclusion: you have two characters, and everyone else including the GM is hanging out in a sort of meta-universe where you can, say, pull PCs out of game to bring you sandwiches. I have no idea what's going on there. :P Granted, I am *really* bad at silly humor, it is one of my failings, so I expect I just am not capable of the kind of humor you guys are doing, heh.



....and your forum captchas are incredibly hard to read...



Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing: we have no logs, because we do everything live. Sorry :( It's me and my local friends IRL.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 03:25:55 pm by Alcoraiden »

Hanzo K.

  • White Tiger Shikigami
  • Whoa, this YF-29's awesome!
From what I understand, the other characters are other PCs, they're just in the audience. The stuff in () is pretty much just funny asides, injokes as it were.

Yugian, feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong man.



EDIT: Been a while since I showed up here, hasn't it?
Essence RO
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Arbitrary Gaming~!
Youkai Quest: Unknown Adventure

Validon98

  • Deathguard Night Sparrow
  • *
  • Harbingers, yo.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Validon
Hanzo, you're completely right, and I can say that because I was there. ^^;
Derping at Touhou since June 2012, derping at RPing Touhou since Feburary 2013.

Devil of Decline Partial English Gameplay Patch!
Let's Play Nightmare of Rebellion!

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Kalen
Also, I would really like whatever updated versions you have! HP for enemies would be a fun variant to try, and you've apparently made some changes that Ikari didn't write up in the old thread. (Also, forgive me, I didn't see that status effects had been addressed because that topic didn't make it into the intro table of contents post in the old thread. Mechanics Friend plowed through the whole rest of the thread after the final ToC topic and told me that status actually existed. Whoops.

The whole system kinda changed the lives to HP due to the painful problem that "Being hit, remove a life" prevents a lot of different effects (Damage over time, traps, getting hit multiple times, etc) and generally is unforgiving.

"Capped stats at 7 for chargen" means "when you create a character, no stat can start above 7." We did this to prevent anyone from being hugely skewed at the start.

That completely makes sense. No one went higher than 6 in our group because 6 is already a lot. (Especially since we removed the dumpstats)

My thoughts on the large number of races you guys have: it's quite fine, but I think if/when I run a campaign, I won't be doing it. Not throwing off on you! I just like to keep the GM overhead low, and thinking about all the individual race mechanics is a bit intense. I do have a weird improv GMing style, though -- I like light systems and heavy stories. Rule 0 and all that. So actually, it does boil down to how "words words words complexity complexity complexity" are really not some GMs' style, and it overwhelms players who aren't into that, and that I think that having a system that does not require races to have the specific mechanical benefits you're giving them is good. (I am not saying this *doesn't* exist; I'm just stating the point. Not being Mechanics Friend, I can't intuit balance from a glance, but I guess nuking your race system for our oneshot didn't break everything. I actually don't know how independent your system is of the race traits.)

Actually, I agree that many races are currently completely useless. I'll be making a race overhaul soon that will basically bring those changes;
- Removal of useless classes like Nue (too much like Tanuki and in-game wise, makes no sense. Nue is a rare unique creature) and Poltergeist (Really, just make a ghost)
- All races gain one active and one passive with a playstyle in mind, and once you're at level 10, you can have a race advancement depending on two different playstyle. Think class change like in MMORPGs.


Apologies for all the Rule 0 variants. I just wanted to post a comprehensive "what we changed," even if it didn't matter much.

Oh no, it's fine! We like hearing about how people do things differently; Who know, it might inspire ideas or show that we've been taking the hard route.

I can already tell you that Mechanics Friend is going to want Ikari's variants that solved the problems you mentioned were fixed ("two godstats" problem especially, but also any other changes you've made). He'll crunch at them then.

Oh my, that could take a while to explain. Basically, Might/Spirit respectively define physical/magical strength, thus damage and general use (Breaking down a door / Burning down a forest). Finesse is basically agility with sneaking and other devious activities, and charm is charisma, as well as the strength of illusion magic. Cunning defines detection, intelligence and knowledge. All stats now have a use in battle, in some way or another. It's hard to explain in a short way.

Regarding Focus: huh, I didn't know it had been removed. Okay then.

I vaguely remember that and thinking the same as you all did; "wow let's remove that".


The Prism Youkai was a tsukumogami. "Prism" was just what its object body was, like Kogasa is an umbrella. I divided Youkai into four categories due to personal world schtick; if you don't want more Rule 0 fluff, I won't elaborate much, but they're Object, Plant, Animal, Concept, each with their own individual but mostly non-mechanical race benefits.

Mwaha, I actually understood what you meant. It sounds similar to our trait system, which allows you to get a new passive every 5 levels (1 5 10 15) to fluff your character a bit. Every attack being random and such are great ideas.

So you say you scrapped things, but I'm not finding in the old thread where that happened. Can you summarize the new changes? I didn't see changes to Hitbox, or that Graze was removed. Also, I don't think Graze is a massive abomination. :/ It has fun dynamics, at least the way we did it, and prevented the godstat problem to some extent (not really, but having two different defense possibilities was cool).

Pfooey, ask Ian. As for Graze, I actually liked it back when I RPed in real life with friends, but online like this, my god, it makes battles very very long and tedious if you weren't careful. Plus, I didn't like the idea of someone getting owned out of sheer back luck.

How do skills actually work now? All we got was that you guys were overhauling them.

I think I got a post about it in the old thread, or something. Ian collected the info, so I think he could give 'em to you all.


Last, I have to ask...what the heck is going on in your metagame here? ;) From your partial log with the fight with Yamame, so far Mechanics Friend and I have the following conclusion: you have two characters, and everyone else including the GM is hanging out in a sort of meta-universe where you can, say, pull PCs out of game to bring you sandwiches. I have no idea what's going on there. :P Granted, I am *really* bad at silly humor, it is one of my failings, so I expect I just am not capable of the kind of humor you guys are doing, heh.

Hanzo understood perfectly. That's an unedited log, so lots and lots of OCCness and the in-game context is hard to get. It's a tournament thing.

....and your forum captchas are incredibly hard to read...

Aren't they?

Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing: we have no logs, because we do everything live. Sorry :( It's me and my local friends IRL.

Lucky you all ;~;

Alcoraiden

  • Do not go gentle into that good night
  • Nickname: Alcor
  • Gender: Female
Hi, guys! Apparently I'm not allowed to send PMs for some weird reason (I also can't change my birthday, which is weird, since I didn't enter one but it looks like everyone else did so I wanted to actually add it).

About skills -- somewhere in your replies to me on this thread, it was mentioned that there were skills that made characters particularly different in battle and that made stats less strictly important -- what were those? I know there are skills as in "art" or "performing," but what are the combat skills? Can you elaborate on those?

I swear I'll respond to PMs as soon as your forum lets me. I'm glad so many of you are interested in talking!

Yugian

  • Humble Blacksmith
  • If the soul preserves, Then Limits dont Exist.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Ninjaian
Hi, guys! Apparently I'm not allowed to send PMs for some weird reason (I also can't change my birthday, which is weird, since I didn't enter one but it looks like everyone else did so I wanted to actually add it).

About skills -- somewhere in your replies to me on this thread, it was mentioned that there were skills that made characters particularly different in battle and that made stats less strictly important -- what were those? I know there are skills as in "art" or "performing," but what are the combat skills? Can you elaborate on those?

I swear I'll respond to PMs as soon as your forum lets me. I'm glad so many of you are interested in talking!

The skills on the page are practically all non-combat. I mean, i can see how you can mix in stealth and medicine, but not many characters are going to use Social skills or Musician Skills to really make an effect (Unless their abilities revolved around their voice or instrument. )

Combat skills, which we call techniques nowadays to not give everyone confusion (Sorry about that >3<)  are all the player created skills. Things like genning up fireballs, reflecting light into a precision beam, etc. All of those techniques serve different purposes and diversify the arsenal one has and defines themselves. AKA, the attacks.
You always got 'I walk up and punch', but An oni might make 'I walk up and punch you with a mountain'.
Or a tengu might go 'I fly at super sonic speed and punch you'. all with different effects  :V

Yugian

  • Humble Blacksmith
  • If the soul preserves, Then Limits dont Exist.
  • LOOK AT ME
  • Nickname: Ninjaian
IANS STUPID IDEA CORNER

Here everyone, I notice that things end up slow and people might be nervous about joining or starting things. Our own invited people feel horrible trying to get into RP's.
So here, have a bar where nothing inside truly ever happens. its just stupid shit for fun. All characters are cool as far as im aware of, besides horribly stupid or broken characters that dont fit any kind of fluff.
Anyone watch Carnival Phantasm? Basically that.

http://us10.chatzy.com/23679661759523
Thats the link, just post here with characters sheets and i'll just let you on your marry way.
No password, because passwords are for scrubs.  :V

Ahnenerbe- Log 1
Open for business. Let the madness begin.
  • Figuring out how the place works!
  • Sexual Harassment!
  • A Bar Fight!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 07:28:28 am by Yugian »

  • Guest

NNNNNNNNNNNECRO.

THIS *IS* STILL ALIVE! Progress continues in (enthusiastic) fits and spurts, though, due to...:

A) Time zones
B) College and/or jobs for some of us
C) Some internal issues that fortunately have been ironed out
D) Figuring out where best to keep all the documentation
E) Ikari making the mistake (though one only recognizable in hindsight) of assuming that a tournament fighting arc would not take a disproportionate amount of time to run.
F) ADHD :V

At least those are the reasons I can *remember*.

sol35

  • Nickname: a touhou addict
*ahem* So we finally got around to finishing the first fight of the second round in the tournament, and team twilight stalkers was victorious. what we managed to get for a log is attached below(its not much sorry ;-; )

  • Guest

I'm still trying to sell them on IRC versus Chatzy. :V

jbsnv

  • Been afk since birth
  • Gender: Male
I know it's been like 100 thousand years since anyone touched this but, is this game still in development? I'm curious of what the fruits of your labor bring onto the public. Are you still recruiting? Or is this deader than dead.

sol35

  • Nickname: a touhou addict
As far as I know it is dead, it kind of fell apart during the tournament and never truly recovered. Although I might be able to salvage some stuff if anyone is still interested.

jbsnv

  • Been afk since birth
  • Gender: Male
As far as I know it is dead, it kind of fell apart during the tournament and never truly recovered. Although I might be able to salvage some stuff if anyone is still interested.

I would be up to assisting anything your trying to salvage you know?

sol35

  • Nickname: a touhou addict
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VAQKNpvr7_DfdWyF5tNA40Mpf7-diqYSEAKJlTEIK7w/edit?usp=sharing

This is our base character sheet with some explanation of the things within.

Ikari and I once had a talk about what the different stats meant in terms of archetypes and uses:

Might:  Warrior
Finesse: Thief
Resolve: Knight/Paladin
Spirit: Mage
Charm: Enchanter/Bard
Cunning: Hunter

and our stat points per level
1 = 12
2 = 14
and so on.

jbsnv

  • Been afk since birth
  • Gender: Male
What's your skype? We can probably talk about this alot more there than on a forum (no offence to the forum)
Looking into this, it looks quite interesting, and I always got discouraged when people just straight up tell me Danmaku Yuugi is not a good system.


Just a quick question, how mechanically dependent is this on unit positioning? As in, how friendly is this to tokens repesenting players on a grid?

Another one I thought up, is friendly fire a thing?

sol35

  • Nickname: a touhou addict
Looking into this, it looks quite interesting, and I always got discouraged when people just straight up tell me Danmaku Yuugi is not a good system.


Just a quick question, how mechanically dependent is this on unit positioning? As in, how friendly is this to tokens repesenting players on a grid?

Another one I thought up, is friendly fire a thing?

We never actually used a tile based system for this, and instead used abstraction. I think friendly fire for normal attacks was not a thing, but spell cards and some special attacks did have such a sleeping song, or the nightsparrow nightblindness affect.  I think you could use a tile-based system, but you'd have to account for height and have a way to handle how far away everything was.
 

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