Author Topic: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]  (Read 143906 times)

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #420 on: June 18, 2014, 09:24:24 PM »
Yeah, that's a bit too high of a level. I'm normally level 25 or so at this point in the game heh. One of these days, I'm going to have to figure out how to fix the EXP curve...in fact, lemme get a screenshot of how the EXP works in the game, just so you can see how dumb the EXP system for 2K3 is.

This is generally everyone's EXP curve:



First image is how much EXP the character SHOULD have at each level, while the second one is how much EXP is required per level. Note the 1/613/1 at the bottom. That's important. For you see....



Primary gives +1 to the EXP.



Secondary gives +1 to EXP as well.



Tertriary does...I don't even know. As you can see, I can't put in values at all to what would be good for EXP values...it's all going to be preset regardless of what I do, which is what makes it so annoying to give EXP values to enemies and the like. So yeah, not sure how to deal with the EXP problems at all...

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #421 on: June 18, 2014, 09:56:01 PM »
I'm guessing those EXP curves were made in mind of having a set of characters stuck in your party for the whole game. If the whole party is always there to get their EXP, balancing their leveling via monster EXP would be no problem. But with a game like Touhou Fantasy where you have dozens of characters you play as, anyone not actively in the party will fall back in level and will have great issues catching up as well due to the linear EXP curve. I can think of a few ways to fix it, but something tells me 2K3 won't be making these that easy:

- higher/lower EXP amounts from monsters the farther away from their level your character is.
- EXP leeching off of active party members (Keine's ability already has this, but obviously isn't enough on its own)
- setting a character minimum level to certain points of the game (like boosting everyone to lvl 20 when you gain access to cave to Makai)
- setting a character maximum level to certain points of the game (this would be a bit cruel though)

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #422 on: June 18, 2014, 09:59:45 PM »
Well, I DO have patch now that I could use for that, but I haven't tested it out and have no idea what kind of adverse effect it may have on parts of the game. The EXP leeching I could do sure, but EXP leeching is pretty small in all games anyways so...yeah. The minimum level is generally set for when a character first joins the party, so if your party level average is higher than the character's level when they join the party, then they scale up a bit to match the party level average. The last one...I don't think I'd want to do and that'd be hard to do. @_@;;

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #423 on: June 19, 2014, 01:40:57 PM »
There's a bit of info on exp curves here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/RPG_Maker_2003/Hero#Experience_Curve

From what I understand of it, primary sets the initial value while secondary sets the amount added each level.
If you set primary high and secondary low, the curve is shallow, making it more difficult to get underleveled characters on par with the rest of the party, but also making it easier to over level the party.
Whereas if you set primary low and secondary high, there'll be a much greater difference  in the amount required each level, making it easier to bring up underleveled characters, but harder to over level them.
Assuming the exp the enemies give out follows the same sort of pattern as the exp required to level, the former approach encourages players to grind against low-level enemies, while the latter encourages them to seek out higher-level enemies.

I don't have a clue what tertiary is for though.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #424 on: June 19, 2014, 08:11:45 PM »
Well, everyone's set to 1 Primary and 613 Secondary (and 1 Tertiary), so you'd think that that'd matter...but I guess it's not set properly or something. x_x;;

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #425 on: June 19, 2014, 09:17:08 PM »
@Kaitani: Found the problem. It doesn't add Marisa to the party during the event, so if you want to bypass the problem, have Marisa in your party when you enter Pandaemonium. It's already fixed in-game, but that'll be the temporary fix for now. I think this was before I did the whole "You can have whoever in your party regardless of who's meant to be the main leader" thing.

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #426 on: June 19, 2014, 10:12:48 PM »
Oh that's good to know.
For some reason I never seem to have the supposed leader in the party unless it's forced. But that's one of the strengths of this game; when you get a rather large roster you can pick a party that suits you best. For the impatient me that usually means Sakuya is picked. :D

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #427 on: June 19, 2014, 10:22:02 PM »
I actually rarely use Sakuya myself truth be told heh. I generally ALWAYS have Marisa if I can, and keep someone like Yuuka around in addition to Remilia. The last party member generally varies. Sometimes it's Meiling for the AoE healing, sometimes it's Koishi for the ridiculous amounts of damage she can do, sometimes it's Mokou for the revive and the Fire/Mystic elemental attacks. But for the most part, the first 3 characters, if possible, WILL be those 3.

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #428 on: June 20, 2014, 09:44:51 AM »
Well, everyone's set to 1 Primary and 613 Secondary (and 1 Tertiary), so you'd think that that'd matter...but I guess it's not set properly or something. x_x;;
Well, in order to prevent overleveling, the amount of exp enemies give out is more important than the characters' exp curve. You'll want to create bigger leaps between the different sections of the game, so that players will try to get through the next boss at an early level in order to save time by grinding the next set of enemies instead of the ones they're currently at.
Since I'm rubbish at explaining things, an example: Player is in an area where enemies give ~10xp each. In the next area, enemies give ~40xp each. There's no point staying where they are, since once they unlock the next area they can level up 4x faster, so they do their best to beat the boss and move on as quickly as possible.
Obviously the main problem with this method is that since it relies on unlocking areas, it reduces the freedom of the player somewhat (unless you have some sort of scaling going on.)

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #429 on: June 20, 2014, 08:06:49 PM »
The enemies kinda give out slightly more EXP as areas go on (the exceptions being at Hakugyokurou and Remains of Hell, where the EXP dropped by enemies is kinda high compared to the rest of the enemies at that point in the game).

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #430 on: June 22, 2014, 04:54:44 PM »
Looks like Aya's Intel got a bit rusty after not being used for some time:

[attach=1]

I was trying to see if those Kedamas in the back had anything worth stealing on them...
And as shown in the screenshot, I'm using Keine now. I was running away from fights to get through that cave faster and after one such fight I got a message about Remilia leveling up. So EXP distribute works even if you run away from the fight?

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #431 on: June 22, 2014, 07:41:10 PM »
Huh...it shouldn't be doing that at all. I'll have to check the coding again to see if it's bugged or anything. Though that's weird that that's happening with those kedamas in particular. @_@;;

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #432 on: June 22, 2014, 08:36:15 PM »
Hmm I think you misunderstood what's happening here. The Intel data on those kedamas is faulty. There was also something weird with Alice's dolls in the Poltergeist Mansion, most showed to have Jolt Scroll for stealing, but none of them did.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #433 on: June 22, 2014, 08:39:02 PM »
That's probably because I screwed up something with the Intel database, which I'll have to go and check out later.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #434 on: June 23, 2014, 12:09:47 AM »
Ok, fixed that particular random encounter group. For some reason, all of the enemies were wrong with the Intel data. Also fixed the Fencer Doll in Poltergeist Mansion, as it was giving Exorcist Scroll instead of Jolt Scroll. Will check the EXP Distribute to fix that.

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #435 on: June 30, 2014, 08:47:39 PM »
Found another erroneous Intel data: Crystal Dragon had a Mythril Ore for stealing but Intel said it should've had a Noble Gohei.

Also, could you clarify on how Koishi's blue magic learning works? Do you have to get hit by the attack to learn it? What if the attack misses/kills Koishi? How to learn friendly spells such as Heal, White Wind etc.?

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #436 on: June 30, 2014, 08:53:58 PM »
Huh...that's weird. Why would it have Noble Gohei of all things? The thing doesn't even exist in the database o_O;; Talk about some errors.

The attack in question must be used, and there's a % chance of Koishi learning it, which depends on the difference between her level and the enemy's level. If her level is LOWER than the enemy's, then she gets +X% to the base learning rate (meaning it's harder to learn them. If her level is HIGHER than the enemy's, she gets -X% to the base learning rate (meaning it's easier to learn them). She does have to be able to act though (meaning she can't be inflicted with Death, Petrify, Venom, Paralyze, etc. Don't think Blind is part of this, but it really should be. Think about it...how can she learn something if she can't see it, right? It's the same deal with Strago in FFVI there, but I never implemented it).

It doesn't have to hit at all, or even target Koishi. Just has to be used.

In other news, I MAY have a spoiler thing to show here, involving new sprites added to the game. Some aren't as spoilerish though, such as Tenshi who got a brand new boss sprite, but the others will be, and thus will be posted in a blog on RPGMaker.net and linked here. In addition, Valley of Corpses, Valley of Corpses - Dimensional Rift, Frozen Fields, and Frozen Fields - Dimensional Rift are all 100% done mapping wise (no eventing started yet). Someone else is working on Ruins of Vina, so once he's done with that, I'll do the Ruins of Vina - Dimensional Rift map, but for now, updating Myouren Temple and then will finish that dungeon.

Current Myouren Temple screens:





Second screenshot is a bit old now as it's been updated a lot more since this screenshot.

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #437 on: June 30, 2014, 09:02:06 PM »
Okay thanks for the info, but there's one thing you didn't directly answer: what if the attack kills Koishi, can it still be learnable (like the Enemy skills in FFVII)?

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #438 on: June 30, 2014, 11:02:12 PM »
If it kills her, not sure. Never had that happen really...and not sure how the game would prioritize that with the current coding.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #439 on: July 01, 2014, 12:07:17 AM »
So...here's something that MAY be happening: Character themes being changed outright. The question is, do you guys prefer the original themes for the characters, or the suggested newer themes?


For Cirno:

Current theme: Beloved Tomboyish Girl by freedom
Suggested theme: Beloved Tomboyish Girl by Sound Sepher   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS-pWuobxRA


For Aya:

Current theme: Wind Circulation ~ Wind Tour by dBu
Suggested theme: The Youkai Mountain ~ Mysterious Mountain   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92NUH_QqvGo


For Momiji:

Current theme: Retrospective Kyoto by Tutti Sound
Suggested theme: Fall of Fall ~ Autumnal Waterfall   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adbGfjszaEU   or Awakening Wolf's Instinct


In addition, while there's no suggested themes for these and these weren't brought up, I feel the need to ask about these:

Should Reimu stick with Mystic Oriental Consultation by dBu? Or go with Dream Battle?
Should Marisa stick with The Casket of Stars ~ Vessel of Stars by dBu? Or go with Love-Colored Master Spark or Magus Night?
Should Sakuya stick with Flowering Night from Fantasy Maiden Wars Mystic? Or go with Lunar Clock ~ Lunar Dial?



Any other music that should be changed/removed? Feel free to let me know!

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #440 on: July 01, 2014, 12:29:03 AM »
In choosing the music themes it's very hard to be objective, since one tends to like some themes more than others, even if they might not be the best fit for a combat theme.
Still, here's my view on the themes:

Cirno: current one is better, the other version feels a bit too up-tempo for combat.
Aya: Mysterious Mountain is one of my favourite Touhou songs, so I'll have to go with that one.
Momiji: Either one of the new ones is better, AWI probably fits better as a combat theme.
Reimu: Stick to the old one, even if it does get horribly old having to listen to it so often at the start of the game...
Marisa: Casket of Stars is my favourite Marisa theme so I'm biased but I still think it fits best as a combat theme.
Sakuya: Both options are good, but hearing that chicken at the start of every combat sounds so weird (Flowering night). :D

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #441 on: July 01, 2014, 12:32:35 AM »
Aye, tis a problem, especially since I try to have the music fit in with each specific use that they're used for. Hence why all the various music choices (though some COULD probably be updated more, such as Mokou's battle theme, though finding suitable replacements is the hardest part...for instance, Yamame and Medicine both COULD potentially use a better boss theme...).

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #442 on: July 01, 2014, 08:10:08 PM »
Something's seriously off with Keine's distribute ability and running away from battle. I got level-ups for several characters when running away from enemies in the Forest of Magic. This is just a hunch, but it seems every non-party character gets about 10% of the EXP needed to level up, so run from any 10 battles = level up.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #443 on: July 01, 2014, 08:14:20 PM »
Arrrrgh...I'll have to really dig into that then, or get rid of it outight...>_<

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #444 on: July 02, 2014, 12:10:58 AM »
In my hunt for other blue magic, I came across another bug: the temporary HP boost in Bubble spell is not so temporary. Using Koishi's HP as an example: base HP 2262, boosted to 4524 with Bubble (2x), then lowered down to 3167 when the effect ended. I then used Bubble again on her, and had 6334 HP (2x) on her. Then I ended the fight with that effect active and had 3167 HP in the party menu. Oddly, Cirno, who also had Bubble on had normal HP after the battle but my other two characters both had an increased amount of HP (both with Bubble on them). I wonder if Cirno dying mid-fight has anything to do with it...

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #445 on: July 02, 2014, 12:38:30 AM »
What...that's weird...the status didn't last after battle, did it??




There's the coding for the status. It's set so that if you have the status, it does the whole doubles max HP and restores HP equal to your current HP and setting a variable so it doesn't infinitely increase, otherwise reduce Max HP by the Max HP and set the variable to 0 so it doesn't infinitely loop.


In addition to this, here's the EXP Distribute coding (warning! There is a spoiler in the images!):





Experimental patch (only for testers!): http://www.mediafire.com/download/agh5cx5hbhwh59x/Touhou_Fantasy_Experimental_Patch_1.02.rar

This also includes the changes to Myouren Temple, and adds in Frozen Fields and Valley of Corpses (there's no way to the Valley yet, and Frozen Fields won't let you progress right now). Do let me know if Bubble and Keine's EXP Distribute still act up.




In other news, I'm going to post this link here. Why the link and not the post? Because it's full of spoilers to the game! So...for those who want to be spoiled or don't mind...

http://rpgmaker.net/games/3758/blog/12324/

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #446 on: July 02, 2014, 08:50:14 AM »
Distribute EXP doesn't seem to award level-ups from running away anymore.
I didn't do a whole lot of testing with Bubble yet, but so far Koishi keeps her base health as normal. However,
Spoiler:
Hope
herself is still getting permanently buffed by it. She even died in one of the fights but kept the Bubble active after being revived.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #447 on: July 02, 2014, 08:52:15 AM »
Wait, what? Bubble stayed on even after death??? That baffles me now o_O;; The coding script for it says it should revert after Bubble is gone, and Bubble doesn't stay on when you die so...wtf???

Hopefully it still gives the EXP when winning fights though?? Keep track of someone's EXP that's not in your party, then win a fight and then see their EXP to make sure that they're still getting some EXP?

Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #448 on: July 02, 2014, 02:58:54 PM »
EXP distribute does indeed work now as intended, as far as I can tell. Bubble however...

I broke Keine. :(

[attach=1]

What happened before was: Keine had Bubble on, died, battle was won without reviving her, maximum HP became one. I then equipped Crimson Blood on her (+20% HP/MP), which made her MP drop to zero.

Xenomic

  • T.G. "Thunder God" Xenomic
    • Xenomic's Lair
Re: Touhou Fantasy [New Topic]
« Reply #449 on: July 02, 2014, 07:39:24 PM »
Ayiyiyi....it seems putting Bubble in the Battle Cleanup event didn't work. Well hmm...try this one then? Maybe I just had to move a variable to a different spot...

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8mq980yvm2tc6pm/Touhou_Fantasy_Experimental_Patch_1.03.rar