Author Topic: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch  (Read 52218 times)

Drake

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2013, 02:36:12 AM »
I disagree with only including some of the midbosses in this. I would prefer to show consistency with that feature, either have them all in or not at all. They can all be reached easily enough in Stage Practice anyway, even Stage 5 Nazrin. This is a Boss Rush mode, but it seems silly to include only some of the midbosses based on such a subjective judgment of what constitutes a "good" midboss.
Subjective? Definitely. Arbitrary? Nope. As Naut said, originally all the midbosses were left out. I did add Nazrin because I find she's the most fun out of the midbosses, but there are some other reasons I didn't put others in at the same time. I did take them into consideration.

The main issues are time, content and flow. I want to remove as much as possible that keeps the player from the meat i.e. the boss fights. There's actually a 4-second pause before each boss that I'm unsure about keeping because it's just dead air, and at some point I was considering just throwing all the bosses into stage 4 in a "true" rush fashion. While the midbosses of course count as meat, they're still separate from the bosses and in general don't stand well on their own, both pattern-wise and as a good use of time. Having stage 1 mid-Naz would really hamper every new credit you put in; Nazrin herself is already almost a chore to go through before Kogasa. Mid-Kogasa's patterns aren't anything in need of practicing (tap tap so complex) and is uhhhh not very good, so I just really don't feel comfortable with her there. Subjective call but I'd rather not bother. Mid-Ichirin is the odd one out because she's pretty ok, but I guess I just find having no midbosses then a midboss then none then another is even more picky than it is now lol. I would also have to get her to stay on screen and switch to boss mode right after. Lazymode.
Nueball I had to leave out mostly for technical reasons. From what I could understand, she's well-integrated into the stage and is way more than just an enemy call. I tried to look around for a bit, but it was more complicated than I was willing to put up with changing. This affects two stages and was part of the reason I originally just kept them all out. S5 Nazrin is not only much more challenging (and fun) than the other midbosses, but both of her patterns are two of the harder parts of the game. I had to put her in if only for that. Those two patterns also (quite subjectively) stand together more as an entire appearance, doesn't feel as much of "hi bye here's the boss", I guess. Anyways, I'm not saying keeping one midboss isn't subjective, but there are still reasons I didn't put in any others.
What about players making jumps from lower difficulties to higher ones? They would appreciate being able to get used to Nazrin's Busy Rod or midboss-Ichirin's faster lasers on Hard, or having a better chance to finally figure out the trick to capturing both of midboss-Nue's appearances.
Players making jumps from difficulty to difficulty shouldn't be practicing bosses or midbosses alone. It's more useful when you already have a general hold on the whole game and want to practice the latter half of a stage without going through the former. I don't think the stages are ever such that people should stop practicing them unless they have the whole thing down, including midbosses. The whole thing is designed so players play what they already know rather than introducing them to something unfamiliar.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 02:38:36 AM by Drake »

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2013, 04:34:24 AM »
And now I remembered why UFO is my favorite game in the series.

E: Got up Byakuren's last card on normal but then I ran into a bullet >_>
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 04:53:46 AM by Hinacle »

ark

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2013, 05:29:06 AM »
I cleared it.

Most lucky Greatest Treasure capture ever.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:16:33 AM by ark »

I have no name

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2013, 08:11:36 AM »
Having played the patch now, a couple things.
1: power between stages doesn't go up , mentioned already, I agree that +1 power between stages would be a great help
2: is midboss Nazrin not supposed to drop a 1up?
3: Vajra is retarded.
Seriously, ended up dying 3 times because the lasers walled me after a death to it.  Ended up game overing to Devil's Recitation, would have cleared hard if Vajra wasn't a cheap design.  Ah well, at least I got a perfect Murasa fight out of it.

Can we get one of these for MoF too, similar setup of everything?

ark

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2013, 08:36:13 AM »
Having played the patch now, a couple things.
1: power between stages doesn't go up , mentioned already, I agree that +1 power between stages would be a great help
That's part of the challenge :p.  Besides, you get more power than usual from the bosses, so just die less.
Quote
2: is midboss Nazrin not supposed to drop a 1up?
We were debating over this, but we decided that that would make it too easy.
Quote
3: Vajra is retarded.
It's fine, what are you talking about.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 08:38:19 AM by ark »

Drake

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2013, 09:50:59 AM »
To expand a bit on "die less", as said, each card drops 50 Power items. So every two cards, you even out in power if you've died. If you die once on Nazrin, you end up with the starting conditions. But given that rate, you can't continue evening out because the bosses have more than two cards, and you will game over on Murasa. If you do better than that rate, you will have more power, and if you're going to clear then it's likely you'll be running 3.00 or 4.00 until Shou. In other words, you have much more to worry about than the loss of Power at that point. There are some problematic points such as coming out of S5 to Byakuren, but for most of the game it's your performance that determines if you're at 1.00 or not.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 09:53:40 AM by Drake »

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2013, 10:06:03 AM »
Could you do this for the other games as well?
Getting clipped since Feb. 2012.

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Drake

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2013, 10:29:13 PM »
if i do it's because i have enough free time and want to and not because people keep asking me to do it

especially if said people make no other comments besides "will you make another"

hint hint

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2013, 10:49:54 PM »
Thank you for this great patch, my cousin loves UFO and I'm sure he'll appreciate this as well.  :)

cuc

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2013, 01:19:08 AM »
Thank you very much for the patch, I can see myself using it often.

(I'll probably be doing this a lot) Permission to convert it for the UFO Chinese translation patch, pretty please?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:23:35 AM by cuc »
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Serela

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 01:41:54 AM »
(I'll probably be doing this a lot) Permission to convert it for the UFO Chinese translation patch, pretty please?
You don't need to ask I think, according to what Drake's said so far. Just name the chinese .dat to the correct thing and run the patch.

Although, all it really changes is boss dialogue (spellcard names are only in jap even for the common english patch in this), and you're probably skipping all the boss dialogue in a Boss Rush 99% of the time, so...
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

cuc

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2013, 01:59:53 AM »
Although, all it really changes is boss dialogue (spellcard names are only in jap even for the common english patch in this), and you're probably skipping all the boss dialogue in a Boss Rush 99% of the time, so...
It's more than that.

The Chinese patch had to change the program's code page from Shift-JIS to a Chinese code (GBK, I think), thus the Japanese SC names in this patch would appear, not even as proper Japanese, but as garbled characters in the Chinese patch; the Chinese patch also replaced the Japanese words in all menu items with Chinese. Replacing those two things would make this patch look much more appealing to Chinese players.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:06:57 AM by cuc »
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Serela

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2013, 02:08:42 AM »
The spellcard names are garbled in the english version too. Drake said he'd have to make an entire new set of stage files to change them and it's not worth the effort.

Anyway, if nothing else, you can just try doing it as-is and see if it works, for the menu stuff.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

cuc

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2013, 02:28:57 AM »
The spellcard names are garbled in the english version too.
Hmm, makes sense. I suspect this might change depending on the language (and code page) setting of the Windows system.

Quote
Drake said he'd have to make an entire new set of stage files to change them and it's not worth the effort.
Wait what, is switching the SC names out that much effort? Does it require something other than replacing the texts? I don't think the script files contain any traps such as checksum etc?
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Goldom

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2013, 02:32:12 AM »
I do keep it backed up, but just to check in, has anyone had any issues with using the same score.dat between this and the regular English-patched version? I noticed it overwrote the spell names in the results room with the garbled text (is it supposed to be garbled even though I'm in Japanese locale? Seems odd), but I seem to recall reading that happens with the Japanese version too, and that playing in English again fixes it. So any other problems out there?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:35:02 AM by Goldom »

cuc

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 02:36:57 AM »
Yeah, overwriting score.dat with SC names is a problem too. Interesting to hear that in the English-patched version it's still garbled even when the locale is Japanese.
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ark

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 02:37:01 AM »
Wait what, is switching the SC names out that much effort? Does it require something other than replacing the texts? I don't think the script files contain any traps such as checksum etc?
The issue is that the spell card names are inside the stage scripts that he removed everything but the bosses from, so he'd have to make a new set of scripts for each language patch. That's just way more work than it's worth.

cuc

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 02:39:09 AM »
I knew that, and was wondering if there are any traps aside from the labor of text-replacing, like checksums, or making calls based on addresses in the script files (the most common problem with 16-bit/handheld game patching). It seems there isn't any?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:42:20 AM by cuc »
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ark

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 02:44:26 AM »
I know that, and was wondering if there are any traps aside from the labor of text-replacing, like checksums, or making calls based on addresses in the script files (the most common problem with 16-bit/handheld game patching). It seems there isn't any?
Yeah, it's purely a labour issue. A smarter patch might actually try to modify the ecl files while preserving the text, instead of just replacing them, but that would also take a fair bit more work.

Darth_Sirov

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 11:17:18 AM »
I was only able to reach Byakuren once (most of the time, I get stomped by Murasa or Nazrin) and got to the last spell card in that 1 try (lucky me... didn't even watch any vids about her fighting pattern). I might want to promote this to my friends so they can test how hard they are against other games.

Drake

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 11:13:11 PM »
Go wild man, more publicity the better

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MTSranger

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2013, 08:20:45 AM »
stupid vajra killed me. And I thought it would be straightforward to 1cc normal mode...
Awesome work!

Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2013, 04:39:34 AM »
I honestly am thankful someone had made this; practicing is now much more simpler. :)

Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2013, 11:36:33 AM »
Really awesome work here. Thank you !
This makes a cool challenge and a nice way of practicing stuff.

Mino ☆

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2013, 08:26:06 PM »
This patch is very useful! It's proven to be helpful in practicing the Lunatic bosses.

Ranko Hoshino

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2013, 08:53:03 PM »
This is pretty cool! Thanks for the patch, Drake! I'd also like to note that this seems to work with Ultra as well.
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KaiserKnuckle

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2013, 11:22:30 PM »
Oh man. When I first saw this thread today when I had downtime, this was the first thing I had to do once I got home.

Really brutal (goddamnit monster train), but that's positive complaining for you. Really loved the touches you added to the stages to keep us atleast hobbling on one leg after a boss.
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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2013, 06:59:21 AM »
This is pretty cool! Thanks for the patch, Drake! I'd also like to note that this seems to work with Ultra as well.

Does it? How do you go about opening the boss rush in Ultra mode then?

Ranko Hoshino

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2013, 07:13:55 PM »
Does it? How do you go about opening the boss rush in Ultra mode then?
Use the boss rush patch on an ultra patched copy of the game.
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Polttopallo

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Re: Undefined Fantastic Object - Boss Rush Patch
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2013, 10:49:53 PM »
patch doesnt work for me.

it creates th12boss.exe but not th12boss.dat. its missing.

launching th12boss.exe crashes the game.

screenshot here

k?ytt? estetty = access denied

tiedostoa ascii.anm ei l?ydy = file not found


« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 10:54:02 PM by Polttopallo »