New research from the Youkai of Systems: archetypes

[Delfigamer]

So, this time we will discuss anime archetypes used in Touhou.
I will start.
Sakuya - yandere for Remi.
Byakuren - moe.
Sanae - genki, if not just plain crazy.

[Clarste]

Uh... used by who?

[KrackoCloud]

Wouldn't Yandere suggest that if Remilia were to suggest leaving Sakuya, Sakuya would attack her?
Also not sure about Byakuren just being typical moe. She may be kind and innocent, but she's also the head of a temple and a saint with initiative.

[Prime32]

Sakuya - yandere for Remi.

Byakuren - moe.

Moe means you want to hug them for being vulnerable, not they want to hug you for being vulnerable.

Sanae - genki, if not just plain crazy.

I guess.

[Delfigamer]

Wouldn't Yandere suggest that if Remilia were to suggest leaving Sakuya, Sakuya would attack her?

You're talking about possessive yandere. I am talking about obsessive one. See here.

Also not sure about Byakuren just being typical moe. She may be kind and innocent, but she's also the head of a temple and a saint with initiative.

Hm... hm... okay, she is not moe enough, even less than Miko.

not they want to hug you for being vulnerable.

She wants to hug me? ಠ_ಠ No, thanks.

[wailofthebanshee]

Uh... used by who?

Indeed. I knew people were starting to confuse canon and fanon, but I didn't know it was this bad.

[Delfigamer]

Indeed. I knew people were starting to confuse canon and fanon, but I didn't know it was this bad.

Okay.
Prove me Sanae is not a genki.

[SirChaotick]

Okay.
Prove me Sanae is not a genki.

Nonono, that's not how it goes. The burden of proof is on you. You don't prove Sanae's genkiness by not getting a proof that she isn't: you have to give some canon data that suggests she is.

[Delfigamer]

Nonono, that's not how it goes. The burden of proof is on you. You don't prove Sanae's genkiness by not getting a proof that she isn't: you have to give some canon data that suggests she is.

- "Genki" is Japanese for energetic or enthusiastic;
- she is possessed of an over-abundance of energy;
- runs everywhere (often with arms waving wildly);
- speaks quickly (sometimes unintelligibly so);
- she's filled with confidence and determination, regardless of whether she's competent or not...
...go on, or enough?
Now, your arguments.

[SirChaotick]

- "Genki" is Japanese for energetic or enthusiastic;
- she is possessed of an over-abundance of energy;
- runs everywhere (often with arms waving wildly);
- speaks quickly (sometimes unintelligibly so);
- she's filled with confidence and determination, regardless of whether she's competent or not...
...go on, or enough?
Now, your arguments.

Hate to be a smartass, but that's not canon data. That's simply saying "She's this, your move!"
Try "In this instance of a game/comic/whatever that is recognised as canon, Sanae behaves/looks like blahblahblah because blahblahblah, your move."

[Tengukami]

Uh... used by who?

Indeed. I knew people were starting to confuse canon and fanon, but I didn't know it was this bad.

I think what the OP intended to mean here is "anime archetypes that you can find in Touhou characters".

And personally, I think that a simple "Character X = this anime archetype" is really too thin. It'd be better to explain why you find such-and-such trait(s) in a character, as it seems Delfigamer is trying to do now with Sanae.

(arms waving wildly? speaks unintelligibly? what?)

[Delfigamer]

http://zg.readmanga.ru/auto/06/97/13/wild_and_horned_hermit_ch06_11.png
"Today we have a very beatiful weather!"
http://m.readmanga.ru/auto/06/97/13/wild_and_horned_hermit_ch06_12.png
"But where yesterday's storm came from? Seems, village had suffered certain damage. And are you okay here? ?! Hey, what is going there?"

Touhou Ibarakasen 6 - Poison Hidden in the Lightning

Waving arms... Have you played MoF? :3

[Tengukami]

Yes, I have played MoF. I think you're stretching things pretty thin and I don't really get your examples as they relate to Sanae's supposed overall genki-ness. At least, not so much more so than any of the other girls.

[SirChaotick]

Waving arms... Have you played MoF? :3

Wait what, does Sanae have an arm-waving sprite in MoF? Enlighten me.

And Tengukami is better than me at saying things with... words. What he said.

[Delfigamer]

Okay, if you want, we may give it a more serious discussion.
First, let's clearly define what girl we may call "genki", otherwise the talk would have no sence. So, I theese suggestions for the definition:
- Crazy. Exactly like TVTropes says: she never is never still, never silent, never calm. She cannot walk, she can only run. She cannot hold her hands, only wave them, if there's no other use. Her usual voice is shout. Just anime crazy, to put it in a word.
- Choleric. If you have brains and a bit of knowledge, you will see that the definition above just states traits of choleric temperament, wildly exaggerated.
I lean more towards later degree of "cholerism". Many of you, I see, put the boundary higher.

[Desu_Cake]

What discussion?
This thread is just you arbitrarily assigning cliche character types to random characters and other people saying that they don't apply. Which they don't.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I came into this thread expecting Jungian archetypes or something along those lines and instead saw shoddy, shallow, shoehorned stereotypes a la TVTropes. Sigh.

I mean, it's not a spam thread or anything, but I was hoping for a little more substance beyond just a poorly concealed list of surface-level character traits that reads as if it was taken straight from their lists of tropes that apply directly to characters. Which would be all well and good, if you were honest about wanting to discuss them. Or if you wanted to claim that these characters have overlooked traits and present evidence for that. That would be neat.

[Delfigamer]

?\(?_?)/?
I've actually expected more questions about Sakuya. Seems like others treat Sanae as more calm than I do.

BTW, what archetype is more adapted to causing miracles, what to you think?

[Desu_Cake]

The Sakuya one is just too stupid for people to even ask.
But if you insist:
Yandere:

a Japanese term for a person who is initially very loving, caring, and gentle to someone (or at least innocent) they really, truly like and care for a lot before their romantic devotion becomes mentally destructive in nature, often through violence and/or brutality. The term is derived from the words yanderu (病んでる?) meaning a mental or emotional illness, and deredere (でれでれ?) meaning to show affection. Yandere characters are mentally unstable, and sometimes are incredibly deranged and are not mentally sane, often using extreme violence and/or brutality as an outlet for their emotions.

There is nothing to suggest that Sakuya is at all loving, particularly violent, or in any way mentally unstable. She is not yandere by any stretch of the imagination.

[SirChaotick]

BTW, what archetype is more adapted to causing miracles, what to you think?

What does the (hardly applicable) archetype have to do with causing miracles or in fact any abilities at all?
I fear this is going nowhere.

[Delfigamer]

Okay, I surrender. :derp: ZUN creates original characters.
We may close this thread.

[Tengukami]

Okay, I surrender. :derp: ZUN creates original characters.

I don't know what this implies, but you've been repeatedly asked to provide solid examples of the archetypes you arbitrarily give the characters, and it seems you can't or won't do so. This is what people are taking issue with, just so you understand the problem here. Not a difference of opinion about ZUN's originality.

We may close this thread.

Suit yourself.