Author Topic: ZUN and Touhou status update  (Read 307212 times)

K+ ~ Bake-Danuki

Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: today's topic is "Still no Touhou anime"
« Reply #420 on: August 23, 2013, 02:36:10 AM »
So you want to see everyone bursting out endless barrage of bullet-like magic?
Of course not, because that's nothing in relation to this series at all. :V

cuc

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Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: today's topic is "Still no Touhou anime"
« Reply #421 on: August 23, 2013, 02:43:45 AM »
No one has called out the blatant error in my last post: the lecture on storytelling is scheduled to be on August 29, not yesterday. Yesterday's "somewhat serious" activity was something else.

At 0 AM today (August 23):
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ZUN: Had a drinking party where I talked a little about my thoughts on game development.

Hmm...
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Formless God

Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: today's topic is "Still no Touhou anime"
« Reply #422 on: August 23, 2013, 09:34:28 AM »
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ZUN: Had a drinking party where I talked a little about my thoughts on game development.
Well, I'm curious.

cuc

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Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: HM patch 1.21
« Reply #423 on: August 23, 2013, 01:05:28 PM »
HM patch 1.21 released. It's a minor patch for bugfix and small tweaks, with no change to the .exe file.


As announced in the previous issue of Comp Ace, Touhou Suzunaan ~ Forbidden Scrollery will again be featured on the cover of Comp Ace magazine - I guess people at Kadokawa are quite pleased with Vol. 1's sales figure.


The special bonus item for this issue at Gamers shows the full artwork:


Also comes with this issue, is a small art book containing contributions of several guest artists, and previous illustrations drawn by Harukawa Moe.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:19:41 PM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

N-Forza

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Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: HM patch 1.21; FS on magazine cover again
« Reply #424 on: August 24, 2013, 03:50:24 AM »
Stealing cuc's thunder a bit, but ZUN just linked to an article about a panel at CEDEC (in France, I believe) where they discussed how they wanted more Japanese games to be localized into other languages. One of the slides listed the results of a poll about favorite Japanese game franchises. Final Fantasy was at the top, but Touhou was at #19, edging out Metroid, Silent Hill and Persona among others.

ZUN then made a comment about how seeing things like this are getting him to start thinking about branching out...

Letty Whiterock

Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: HM patch 1.21; FS on magazine cover again
« Reply #425 on: August 24, 2013, 05:44:07 AM »
Stealing cuc's thunder a bit, but ZUN just linked to an article about a panel at CEDEC (in France, I believe) where they discussed how they wanted more Japanese games to be localized into other languages. One of the slides listed the results of a poll about favorite Japanese game franchises. Final Fantasy was at the top, but Touhou was at #19, edging out Metroid, Silent Hill and Persona among others.

ZUN then made a comment about how seeing things like this are getting him to start thinking about branching out...
This is easily one of the most exciting things. I can't wait to see where this leads.

Re: ZUN and Touhou status update: HM patch 1.21; FS on magazine cover again
« Reply #426 on: August 24, 2013, 09:06:45 AM »
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One of the slides listed the results of a poll about favorite Japanese game franchises. Final Fantasy was at the top, but Touhou was at #19, edging out Metroid, Silent Hill and Persona among others.

What? No way, I would never expect Touhou to be that popular.

Zerviscos

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Stealing cuc's thunder a bit, but ZUN just linked to an article about a panel at CEDEC (in France, I believe) where they discussed how they wanted more Japanese games to be localized into other languages. One of the slides listed the results of a poll about favorite Japanese game franchises. Final Fantasy was at the top, but Touhou was at #19, edging out Metroid, Silent Hill and Persona among others.

ZUN then made a comment about how seeing things like this are getting him to start thinking about branching out...
I am amazed right now, we might see some big changes in future games of his.
What? No way, I would never expect Touhou to be that popular.
You'd be surprised by the massive amount of fanbase that's hidden amongst others.



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cuc

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For context:
CEDEC is the largest game development conference in Japan (and for a while, almost the only one). The panel referenced here was the second in a two-part panel held by two French guests, about the influence of Japanese pop culture and video games in France. The survey was conducted through "a French game site".

Japanese pop culture is much more influential in Netherland, Germany and France compared to America. Said "French game site" might be Gamekyo.com (formerly Jeux-France), a site from my impression already heavily leaning towards Japanese games. Still, it's surprising to hear Touhou ranking at the 19th in the poll for "favorite Japanese game series", especially given that as said in their first panel, the moe and bishoujo genre is not popular in France.

I'd really like someone knowledgeable about French youth culture to provide a more holistic explanation. Are the results of this poll reliable? What kind of audience would supply enough votes to Touhou so that it ranks that high, if moe and bishoujo genre is not big in France?

In whichever case, ZUN is beginning to think about expansion. This is real.
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ZUN: Touhou is a bit better known now. Is it about time to consider overseas development?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 12:31:52 PM by cuc »
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N-Forza

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I think you're assuming that the games themselves, and therefore ZUN's art, are moe/bishoujo. :V

fsvgm777

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The French gaming site in question might have been Nolife-TV (which actually is a French pay-tv channel "for geeks" (as it claims to be)). Case in point: It conducted a survey about French gamers and Japanese video games on its official forums (site in French, obviously). Those results were probably published at CEDEC a few hours ago.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 09:01:42 PM by fsvgm777 »

Tengukami

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ZUN: Touhou is a bit better known now. Is it about time to consider overseas development?

I hope he considers this further after AWA. My impression is he really doesn't have a clear idea of how big the WTC is. Firsthand experience may nudge him towards overseas development.

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What exactly did he mean by overseas development? What kind of changes do you think this could trigger?

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My impression is he really doesn't have a clear idea of how big the WTC is. Firsthand experience may nudge him towards overseas development.
He has no idea. The people who come to Japan and happen to meet him always end up saying that he's aware a "fanbase" exists, but its size is hard to express without being able to see for himself, since as far as I'm aware his exposure to the WTF might be a few doujin circles and meeting a few overseas fans. The AWA staff telling him the expected numbers is probably quite a shock.

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cuc

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The French gaming site in question might have been Nolife-TV (which actually is a French pay-tv channel "for geeks" (as it claims to be)). Case in point: It conducted a survey about French gamers and Japanese video games on its official forums (site in French, obviously). Those results were probably published at CEDEC a few hours ago.
Oh, that is it. According to the article on the first panel, one of the two speakers participates in the production of Nolife. (Link to Famitsu article: 1, 2)

Demographically-speaking, this sample is so unrepresentative it's not even funny. On the other hand, I imagine a representative survey would include a lot of young students less inclined to actually pay, so it might be less useful as a gauge of commercial interest... I hope they are not sending false signals to Japanese developers.
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

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You'd be surprised by the massive amount of fanbase that's hidden amongst others.

I'm surprised, because while Touhou is big in the Doujin world, it doesn't compare to commercial stuff. I mean we are talking about stuff like Metroid, Persona, and Silent Hill...

I think this is a case where the "most vocal" fandom isn't the same as the "biggest". I'm sure this happens in Japanese polls too, and these sorts of puzzling results would prod them into checking out the methodology in the exact same way we just did. It's not like they have less resources than us.

TheTeff007

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I'm surprised, because while Touhou is big in the Doujin world, it doesn't compare to commercial stuff. I mean we are talking about stuff like Metroid, Persona, and Silent Hill...

I disagree. Touhou may be not commercial, but I know not of other fanbase make as many fan material as the Touhou Fanbase has done. I mean, not even artworks, no musical remixes, not even fangames...

Then again, maybe there is one that is more popular that Touhou which I am not aware of...
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Letty Whiterock

I'm surprised, because while Touhou is big in the Doujin world, it doesn't compare to commercial stuff. I mean we are talking about stuff like Metroid, Persona, and Silent Hill...

1: Final Fantasy
2: The Legend of Zelda
3: Metal Gear
4: Pokemon
5: Tales of *
6: Mario Kart
7: Kingdom Hearts
8: Resident Evil
9: Monster Hunter
10: Fire Emblem
11: Street Fighter
12: Dragon Quest
13: Shin Megami Tensei
14: Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm
15: ???
16: Sonic the Hedgehog
17: Shenmue
18: Castlevania
19: Touhou Project
20: Metroid

- Metroid hasn't had a game since Other M and hasn't had a good game since Prime 3. People are done with it.
- Persona's last main series game was 4: The Golden, released on a niche platform, and its last branded game was Arena, which is, for all intents and purposes, part of a niche genre. People don't really care as much about Persona, as whole, as they did/do with the main Shin Megami Tensei series, which is at #13 on the poll.
- Silent Hill has been on the decline in quality for years, and (let's face it) survival horror is a dying genre, replaced by games such as The Last of Us, Dead Space, and even the newer Resident Evil games, which is why that one popped in at #8 on the poll. People are done with it.

It's honestly not that surprising those games were edged out, and it's certainly not surprising that Touhou has gained enough popularity to beat some now niche series like Super Robot Wars and Mega Man (who is sadly only at #35, because he can't get a break). What is surprising is that Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm is on the same level as SMT and that Shenmue is STILL ON THE LIST IN 2013 AS A FAVORITE SERIES.

cuc

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I think this is a case where the "most vocal" fandom isn't the same as the "biggest". I'm sure this happens in Japanese polls too, and these sorts of puzzling results would prod them into checking out the methodology in the exact same way we just did. It's not like they have less resources than us.
Most Japanese people are ignorant about social realities outside of Japan. They are also very bad at any foreign languages, making looking up untranslated info difficult. There are more and more Japanese who have had extended sojourns abroad, and are fluent in foreign languages, but they are still the exception. This is why they can use a convenient trope for handwaving characters with eccentric personalities in their TV drama or manga: "he/she grew up in a foreign country".


>The list
No. 15 is Ace Attorney.

Also note the actual numbers and distribution of votes. Final Fantasy has over 1300 votes, and the numbers fell very fast after it. Touhou has only 55 votes, which is not significantly higher than those immediately after it. The reason for Persona being lower is simple: presumably most fans of Persona voted for Shin Megami Tensei instead of Persona alone.


For my archival purpose: the two French speakers are the writer Florent Gorges, best known as author of the book "The History of Nintendo", and TV director Anne Ferrero of Nolife channel. Both are fluent Japanese speakers.
http://www.jeuxvideo.com/forums/1-36-18852296-1-0-1-0-sondage-jrpg-pour-les-gamers-francais.htm
http://cedec.cesa.or.jp/2013/program/GD/10299.html
http://cedec.cesa.or.jp/2013/program/GD/10352.html
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 08:43:45 AM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

hungrybookworm

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Final Fantasy has over 1300 votes, and the numbers fell very fast after it. Touhou has only 55 votes, which is not significantly higher than those immediately after it.
Wow, that's actually... really tiny. I guess it's still cool that it's on the list though.

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I disagree. Touhou may be not commercial, but I know not of other fanbase make as many fan material as the Touhou Fanbase has done. I mean, not even artworks, no musical remixes, not even fangames...
There's a lot of fan material, yeah, but you're probably not going to see any of it unless you have friends into Touhou, spend a lot of time looking at certain image boards, or listen to lots of doujin music, which a massive chunk of western anime fans just don't do, in my experience (unless it involves Naruto doujinshi porn or something, then maybe [/massive generalisation]).

I was surprised the other day though when my sister (into shounen jump anime, walks around conventions with a yaoi paddle etc) recognised Marisa, despite not knowing who she was, or what series she was from. Maybe the times are a changing!

It would certainly be nice to have an official English release so we could support Zun while also being able to actually read it (for those of us who can't read Japanese).

He really should get to it fast though, curtain fire games aren't exactly getting any more popular in the west. Touhou survives because of its quirky characters and settings mostly, less so because of the official games (though, they're like, the trunk hidden within a large set of branches and leaves, needed for sustenance but not exactly the most apparent part)

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I'm surprised, because while Touhou is big in the Doujin world, it doesn't compare to commercial stuff. I mean we are talking about stuff like Metroid, Persona, and Silent Hill...
You're talking about Touhou that has been spread all over the internet using music, doujins, memes through 4chan, and a lot more.
The fanbase is so entirely large that even other fanbases are fans of Touhou.

I will tell you this, if I ask some people what is Metroid, they wouldn't know(mostly the younger generations), but when I ask them what is Touhou, THEY DEFINITELY KNOW.
Of course this would include people in the fan"dumb" division.
1: Final Fantasy
2: The Legend of Zelda
3: Metal Gear
4: Pokemon
5: Tales of *
6: Mario Kart
7: Kingdom Hearts
8: Resident Evil
9: Monster Hunter
10: Fire Emblem
11: Street Fighter
12: Dragon Quest
13: Shin Megami Tensei
14: Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm
15: ???
16: Sonic the Hedgehog
17: Shenmue
18: Castlevania
19: Touhou Project
20: Metroid
I AM SHOCKED RIGHT NOW THAT SHENMUE IS AT NUMBER 17. That is something I thought people would get over, but I guess the fans just wouldn't let go until they have Shenmue 3.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 08:43:58 AM by En »



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You're talking about Touhou that has been spread all over the internet using music, doujins, memes through 4chan, and a lot more.
The fanbase is so entirely large that even other fanbases are fans of Touhou.

I will tell you this, if I ask some people what is Metroid, they wouldn't know(mostly the younger generations), but when I ask them what is Touhou, THEY DEFINITELY KNOW.
Of course this would include people in the fan"dumb" division.

Is that so? I would likely have the opposite result if I ask my co-workers about this stuff.

Zil

I will tell you this, if I ask some people what is Metroid, they wouldn't know(mostly the younger generations), but when I ask them what is Touhou, THEY DEFINITELY KNOW.
Yeah no. Anyone who's remotely into video games has heard of Metroid. Touhou on the other hand, you could probably go through hundreds of people before you found someone who's heard of it.
games
not exactly the most apparent part
>:I

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Yeah no. Anyone who's remotely into video games has heard of Metroid. Touhou on the other hand, you could probably go through hundreds of people before you found someone who's heard of it.
Times are changing. Those people who are remotely into video games are just people who are average gamers. Yet still even a small portion of these gamers doesn't know Metroid.
For one reason, not a large percentage of gamers even likes Nintendo(which are the hard hard hardcore Sony and Microsoft Fanboys, and which are also mostly kids-young adults).

If the average person doesn't lurk as much as "we" do, they don't post and know much about Nintendo on the internet these days. And for a seemingly dying game like Metroid, of course they wouldn't know. Touhou per se due to the large amount of fan-based material over the internet, it's enough to get anyone's attention(eg. facebook spams, 4chan, youtube, your friends, cameos, other, and the so-called Death Waltz incident was enough for average person to look it over what it was actually).

To summarize, Metroid is old, and hasn't had enough spotlight these days. One of the reasons why it's on the top list would be it's loyal fans, and probably people(mostly older ones) who knows it.
But that doesn't mean Metroid's the only one, there are still a lot, like Donkey Kong, Earthbound, Doom, Quake(Especially true, when FPS talks these days consists of what? COD and BF most of the times), and a lot more. Unless they're put on the spotlight again, they won't shine as much as others.

Still that's from my perspective.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:06:27 PM by En »



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Tengukami

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Seems we're all speaking from our immediate social circle. I'll just chime in to say that I can count on one hand the number of people I know from outside this forum who have heard of Touhou.

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IMO, if Zun wants to market his work in America, he should go after the uninitiated by (after translating his works) releasing them in three-packs.  Maybe a three-pack for the price of two (as well as all 5 of the PC98 games in one pack).  That's how I'd go about it.

Only problem with western-based development?  If his translations don't match up with the translations eons of fans are already using, expect either some backlash or some major retconning.

IMO, if Zun wants to market his work in America, he should go after the uninitiated by (after translating his works) releasing them in three-packs.  Maybe a three-pack for the price of two (as well as all 5 of the PC98 games in one pack).  That's how I'd go about it.

Only problem with western-based development?  If his translations don't match up with the translations eons of fans are already using, expect either some backlash or some major retconning.
Just let the fans do the translation for him. He doesn't know English anyway.

Gpop

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Touhou for Steam

Do it ZUN.

Though wasn't his stance on digital downloads for the Touhou Project games not on the likely side?