Author Topic: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!  (Read 466971 times)

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #540 on: May 08, 2013, 07:27:43 AM »
From the 3 stages seen so far, I would hazard a guess that background characters are not playable. Of course, the inverse would be true, if a character is not in the background in places where they are expected to be, then they may be playable.

It is possible that the final boss is one of the background characters, but who knows. That girl behind Rinnosuke looks suspicious...

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #541 on: May 08, 2013, 08:42:00 AM »
Just a little something nobodies brought up, that imo is a little relevant to the whole background characters argument.
Those background characters can be seen from the stage select menu, im sure that might change with the final release and all but i thought it was food for thought.. or something.

Anyway, personally i'm expecting a roster of about 8 characters, possibly less but i highly doubt more.
I can only imagine a lot of work has to go into making the characters, even moreso if they don't share stages, so the idea that they made another 10 or so in the last half a year seems a little unreasonable to me.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #542 on: May 08, 2013, 09:31:34 AM »
Just a little something nobodies brought up, that imo is a little relevant to the whole background characters argument.
Those background characters can be seen from the stage select menu, im sure that might change with the final release and all but i thought it was food for thought.. or something.

Anyway, personally i'm expecting a roster of about 8 characters, possibly less but i highly doubt more.
I can only imagine a lot of work has to go into making the characters, even moreso if they don't share stages, so the idea that they made another 10 or so in the last half a year seems a little unreasonable to me.

They don't have to have made them all in the past half year. There's no reason to believe that only Reimu, Marisa and Ichirin were in a playable state when the demo was first released. I mean, why would they give everything away in the demo? The demo for SWR only had 4 characters even though they were reusing the sprites from IaMP.

That said, I agree that the cast will be small, although I set my estimate of the limit at 10. Which matches how many characters IaMP started with. Although I guess that depends on how much more work the new sprites are. They're certainly higher resolution.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #543 on: May 08, 2013, 04:45:28 PM »
Is the eight character estimate including the boss?  I imagine it'd be 8 characters AND the boss (who of course will also be playable) and maybe a mid-boss, for a total of 10 characters. Assuming this wasn't what various people meant, already.

Hmm... that leaves room for 3 Myourens (Byakuren, Ichirin, Shou?), 3 Taoists (Miko, Futo?, Seiga + Yoshika? If only because the only other one is Tojiko), Reimu, and Marisa. And Sanae too, since Kanako and Suwako need representation. Guess that's 9, then. And the boss, who's probably a new character (probably).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:49:45 PM by Tiamat »

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #544 on: May 08, 2013, 05:03:30 PM »
I wouldn't expect a midboss. SWR had one, but it also heavily reused IaMP's sprites and other than the new characters only had 3 additions to the cast (Aya, Reisen, Komachi). For a total of 5.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #545 on: May 08, 2013, 05:24:42 PM »
A Seiga+Yoshika character could be really cool. In fact, I think it would be a massively missed opportunity if they didn't do it.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #546 on: May 08, 2013, 05:29:49 PM »
A Seiga+Yoshika character could be really cool. In fact, I think it would be a massively missed opportunity if they didn't do it.

That's definitely my secret dream, but I don't want to jinx it.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #547 on: May 08, 2013, 10:33:04 PM »
Lets see who else will be playable, in order of probability (the more probable first):
1) Byakuren, Miko and Sanae (these I'm about 100% sure that will be in)
2) Shou, Futo, Kanako, Seiga (Kanako, as SoPM should have the same chance of Byakuren and Miko, but I'm put off by her not appearing in the starting scroll. Still, I'd give everybody at this tier about 80% of chance to appear)
3) Youmu, Mamizou, anybody from SA, Kasen (this is the "we had enough time to add extra characters" tier)
4) everybody else (at about 0% chances)

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #548 on: May 08, 2013, 10:45:51 PM »
Rethinking my latest roster guesses...

My probables:
Sanae, Youmu, Koishi, Futo, Kasen, Seiga (or Seiga-Yoshika)

Sub-bosses, probably playable:
Kanako, Byakuren, Miko

The Maybes, especially if they need mooks/filler for storymode:
Meiling, Tojiko, Mystia-Kyouko, Yorihime (or Toyohime), Iku, Hatate (or Aya)

Rationale on the Maybes--
Meiling-- Chinese Girl, likely a Taoist, therefore potentially a non-Miko affiliated Taoist.  And is not seen with the SDM crew at Reimu's.
Tojiko-- The only other Taoist option.
Mystia-Kyouko-- Another tag-team option with Kyouko being the one who ties them to the storyline.
Yorihime-- A Reimu if she ever bothered to train.  Her connection with the Kami makes her a potential option.
Iku-- Envoy of the Dragon Palace.  That could be used to tie her in.
Hatate or Aya-- Like they'll stay out of this.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 07:25:31 AM by Aya Reiko »

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #549 on: May 08, 2013, 11:49:18 PM »
I wouldn't expect a midboss. SWR had one, but it also heavily reused IaMP's sprites and other than the new characters only had 3 additions to the cast (Aya, Reisen, Komachi). For a total of 5.

I'm not sure how much it applies, but technically, Yukari was the mid-boss of IAMP (both storyline-wise and gameplay wise. The former because she's the one that drags Suika out, and the latter because she's always fought before Suika and needs to be unlocked before you can play as her).  And maybe Yuyuko too, although some characters skip her in the story, unlike Yukari. I don't expect an old character to show up as the designated midboss for Hopeless Masquerade, though (Well, for some reason, I feel like Kaisen would have fit the role rather nicely, but I don't expect her to be in the game, because her manga and thus her character development is still ongoing. Thematically speaking, we the Touhou readers/fans have yet to meet the REAL Kaisen and only have been subject to her own masquerade so far. ZUN doesn't want to reveal the actual truths about Kaisen outside of the manga and I agree that'd be the better story-telling policy for an author to take).

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #550 on: May 09, 2013, 01:54:10 AM »
And technically, Okuu is Soku's penultimate boss, with Suwako being final boss (see Arcade mode, and her lack of Story mode).

One thing no one has brought up is the number of named background characters.

Both Hakurei Shrine and Human Village are popular hangout spots, so it's reasonable for them to have the largest number of characters - 9 named characters, and many extras. But even the Palanquin Ship stage still has 7 named characters.

Since EoSD, there has been about 70 named characters who have appeared in gameplay. Add Daiyousei, Koakuma, Tokiko, Rinnosuke, Akyuu, Kasen, Kosuzu and the Lunar Capital characters, then you've got about 80 characters, a few of which probably won't appear in this game. Supposing each stage has on average 1 playable character + 5 background characters, that results in at most 13 stages + playable characters.

Of course, the number of named characters in a stage background can be highly variable. But given the "popularity contest" theme, it's reasonable to think that most stages should have a few cameo characters, except for maybe a special Earthbound-style "final battle in space" "you need a prayer" "the whole Gensokyo is watching" kind of stage.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #551 on: May 09, 2013, 07:40:56 AM »
Palanquin Ship
Seriously, is it? Why can't there just be multiple flying ships?

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #552 on: May 09, 2013, 07:43:34 AM »
Doesn't the wiki states that the Myouren Temple can turn back and forth into the Palanquin ship whenever Byakuren needs it to? I can't recall if that was canon in UFO, since I haven't played it for quite some time ago...
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #553 on: May 09, 2013, 07:46:28 AM »
Plus it would make some bit of sense as a method of gathering followers.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #554 on: May 09, 2013, 07:50:56 AM »
It's Buddhist magic. Don't question it.
Besides, who wouldn't want a flying ship?

On a more serious note, since the head of the three religions is likely to be playable, I'm curious about how they'll fight.
  • Byakuren-- She'll either be magic-oriented or melee-oriented, or a mix of both. Since Buddhist is aligned with close combat in the faith chart, I guess they'll make her lean toward the latter. Besides, who would past the chance for a Kung Fu/Martial Artist Byakuren? And so, Tasofro, I demand a Jesus Beam. You know you want to.
    But the problem is whether they'll make her an expert or not since as far as I know, ZUN never mention that. I want her to be a skilled and powerful fighter(which would complement her ability) though since we already got Ichirin to fill the other role.
  • Kanako-- This is a good chance to see what her ability to create the sky really do when utilized in battle. I'm also curious whether they'll have her as a rushdown or a zoner. With how Shinto works, I guess it's safe to say that we'll get an homing Onbashira to the face.
  • Miko-- I'm not so sure with her. Her ability doesn't seem to be applicable in combat, except maybe using it to read the opponents moves, giving her a counter skill. Quite unlikely though since it's stated that hers is kinda different.
    It would also be nice if she'll use her sword too, in case Youmu didn't make it in. There's also the fact that she has superhuman abilities, though it should be noted that it isn't explicitly stated what it is. So she doesn't necessarily have to possess superhuman strength like Byakuren, maybe other things like super senses(her hearing is one) or something, which might still give her the counter capability if she can't mind read. There's also the matter of whether she's a skilled fighter or not. Personally, I would prefer her to be the speedster, a tactical one.

As for the others that might be in, Shou might actually use her spear since really, you don't need skill to swing a stick and she has the strength to compensate for that. Coupled up with the jeweled pagoda, imminent "Hello, curvy lasers. Why do you hate me so?"
Futo would make a nice substitute for Komachi to ram people with boat. Add in her arson tendency and other Taoist? artifact and we're gold.
I really want a playable Seiga, be it with Yoshika or not. She'll probably be the gimmick/weird character.

I'm really excited to see how they'll do it because the way they fight will surely give some impact to their character, be it for better or worse.

Also, it's a bit late but thank you Yuki Mori for the info! I have preordered the game and now I'll just wait warmly.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 09:48:21 AM by monhan »

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #555 on: May 09, 2013, 10:42:05 AM »
On a more serious note, since the head of the three religions is likely to be playable, I'm curious about how they'll fight.
  • Byakuren-- She'll either be magic-oriented or melee-oriented, or a mix of both. Since Buddhist is aligned with close combat in the faith chart, I guess they'll make her lean toward the latter. Besides, who would past the chance for a Kung Fu/Martial Artist Byakuren? And so, Tasofro, I demand a Jesus Beam. You know you want to.
    But the problem is whether they'll make her an expert or not since as far as I know, ZUN never mention that. I want her to be a skilled and powerful fighter(which would complement her ability) though since we already got Ichirin to fill the other role.

Byakuren's specialty is described as body-improving magic, so honestly I see her as a more of a brute-force superhuman than a martial artist.  Akyuu describes her as having fists harder than steel and an invincible body. More Superman than Bruce Lee. Lots of of superarmor and simple but strong attacks. On the other hand, she might have super-reflexes and all that too.

Quote
  • Kanako-- This is a good chance to see what her ability to create the sky really do when utilized in battle. I'm also curious whether they'll have her as a rushdown or a zoner. With how Shinto works, I guess it's safe to say that we'll get an homing Onbashira to the face.

Her ability to "create sky" is really a lot more symbolic than anything. The Taoist word used doesn't really mean "sky" so much as "heaven" and is associated with initiative and activeness and whatnot. I think it describes her personality more than her powers, which makes sense since "abilities are self-reported". Her divine powers are probably way more versatile than that. She's a storm god, but also a mountain god, and also a god of technology. I'd imagine she has a mishmash of abilities like Suwako did in Hisoutensoku.

Quote
  • Miko-- I'm not so sure with her. Her ability doesn't seem to be applicable in combat, except maybe using it to read the opponents moves, giving her a counter skill. Quite unlikely though since it's stated that hers is kinda different.
    It would also be nice if she'll use her sword too, in case Youmu didn't make it in. There's also the fact that she has superhuman abilities, though it should be noted that it isn't explicitly stated what it is. So she doesn't necessarily have to possess superhuman strength like Byakuren, maybe other things like super senses(her hearing is one) or something, which might still give her the counter capability if she can't mind read. There's also the matter of whether she's a skilled fighter or not. Personally, I would prefer her to be the speedster, a tactical one.

Well, obviously she has access to Taoist magic. Which... probably isn't much different from regular magic, but obviously she can shoot bullets and whatnot. I can't really think of anything in particular, but a counterattack-based sword user makes sense to me. For the record, her sword is sort of legendary on its own, and technically she is a sword in the sense that that's how her shikaisen process worked, so it makes sense for her to be sword focused.

Quote
As for the others that might be in, Shou might actually use her spear since really, you don't need skill to swing a stick and she has the strength to compensate for that. Coupled up with the jeweled pagoda, imminent "Hello, curvy lasers. Why do you hate me so?"

Dual wielding spear and pagoda. But yeah, while SoPM says she's not skilled with her spear, it'd be a waste not to use is as her melee attack. Even if she specializes in lasers.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #556 on: May 09, 2013, 02:15:13 PM »
^ In the very least, she can flail the spear in reckless and comedic ways.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 05:18:17 PM by game2011 »

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #557 on: May 09, 2013, 04:56:45 PM »
Shou will use her spear, I imagine, because Komachi used her Scythe despite how that scythe isn't meant to be a combat scythe. So there's precedence for using it, skilled combat or not, I guess.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #558 on: May 09, 2013, 05:11:43 PM »
You know what actually? The info on Byakuren using magic to give her superhuman strength actually makes me think if she'll play like an aerial version for Iron Fist with his MvC3 move list. More specifically, his power up specials.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #559 on: May 09, 2013, 05:19:30 PM »
You know what actually? The info on Byakuren using magic to give her superhuman strength actually makes me think if she'll play like an aerial version for Iron Fist with his MvC3 move list. More specifically, his power up specials.
Superman in Injustice: Gods Among Us may be a good visual aid of how she may fight.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #560 on: May 09, 2013, 07:15:54 PM »
Shou will use her spear, I imagine, because Komachi used her Scythe despite how that scythe isn't meant to be a combat scythe. So there's precedence for using it, skilled combat or not, I guess.

Of course she will use it. Like Youmu used her Sword, or Komachi used her Scythe. Even Reimu and Marisa used their Gohei and Broom respectively to smack the enemies.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #561 on: May 09, 2013, 08:06:11 PM »
Of course she will use it. Like Youmu used her Sword, or Komachi used her Scythe. Even Reimu and Marisa used their Gohei and Broom respectively to smack the enemies.

The best one is Patchouli smacking you with her book.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #562 on: May 09, 2013, 10:27:59 PM »
Shou will use her spear, I imagine, because Komachi used her Scythe despite how that scythe isn't meant to be a combat scythe. So there's precedence for using it, skilled combat or not, I guess.
Although the scythe of the shinigami are said to not be used as weapons, it's never said that Komachi doesn't know how to use it as such; Shou, on the other hand, is explicitly stated to not be a martial artist, and that she uses the spear only as a walking stick.

Of course, that doesn't stop the possibility of her melee attacks being her waving that thing around in a hilariously incompetent yet still dangerous way.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #563 on: May 09, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »
She will use it guys, there's no doubt. I can even see Byakuren using her scroll as a sort of whip or something.

By the way, it'd be funny seeing Suwako throwing her hat as weapon Kung-Lao style :V
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 10:49:17 PM by Magic Magica ~★ »

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #564 on: May 09, 2013, 10:52:57 PM »
I can even see Byakuren using her scroll as a sort of whip or something.
Well, that's how she uses it in Genius of Sappheiros, and I don't know how else you would whack someone on the head with that thing.
* Validon98 implying the usage of Byakuren's scrolls in a fangame is CLEARLY how they will be used in a canon game.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #565 on: May 10, 2013, 10:16:00 AM »
@Shou's spear: I imagine she will use her spear like how Patchouli uses her books. Close her eyes and stab straight ahead or something and hope for the best.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #566 on: May 10, 2013, 01:09:16 PM »
I'm so hype I could die.

I wish for a Seiga x Yoshika team so hard; It would be adorable and great. I wonder how it would work. I'm personally hoping for a Carl Clover-like Seiga, but a P4 Arena Seiga is fine too. I wonder if her last word will be a sneaky Jiang-Shi bite from behind...?

Shou using her spear is pretty much a definite yes, and I'm not sure if she'll wave it with her eyes closed, but holy crap that would be adorable. I'm squeeing every time someone mentions it.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #567 on: May 10, 2013, 02:55:52 PM »
I'm also really hype for the 26th. We'll get two awesome games, even though one of them will be just a demo.

I'd like to see Seiga and Yoshika on the game as well. The former has better chances since she is affiliated with Taoism. I'd imagine her fighting solo but using Yoshika as a striker. Or Carl Clover style as you said... either way would work.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2013, 07:40:25 PM by Magic Magica ~★ »

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #568 on: May 10, 2013, 07:29:33 PM »
I'd like to see Seiga and Yoshika on the game as well. The former has better chances since she is affiliated with Taoism. I'd imagine her fighting solo but using Yoshika as a striker. Or Carl Clover style as you said... either way would work.

Or possibly Melty Blood maids style where both of them are on the screen and can assist each-other, but you can tag which one you control back and forth. If Seiga is in the game I predict a Persona-like mechanic where her heavy melee and heavy projectile call Yoshika onto the screen to attack, but there are lots of ways they could go with it.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #569 on: May 10, 2013, 07:38:25 PM »
Or possibly Melty Blood maids style where both of them are on the screen and can assist each-other, but you can tag which one you control back and forth. If Seiga is in the game I predict a Persona-like mechanic where her heavy melee and heavy projectile call Yoshika onto the screen to attack, but there are lots of ways they could go with it.

Maybe I'm just taking the word "heavy" too literally, but shouldn't that be switched for the projectiles? Yoshika shoots waves of weak kunai, while Seiga shoots large homing lightning orbs. Seiga's shots feel "heavier" to me. Unless they decide to completely ignore what they do in TD.