Author Topic: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!  (Read 466985 times)

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #450 on: May 02, 2013, 04:17:37 AM »
The thing about Shou and Futo is that they appear in the prologue. Although I would definately NOT take that as a sure thing (or even a "probable" thing, really), it does IMHO increases their chances a little, at least.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #451 on: May 02, 2013, 04:23:34 AM »
Okay, I guess Koishi was invited to the temple so maybe she's on the Buddhist side, but how exactly is Youmu at all aligned with Shinto? That just seems kind of random. If I had to throw her into one of the categories, I think Buddhist would be the obvious choice because of her spellcard theme where she talks about the different realms of Bhuddist cosmology and stuff.
Actually, I was debating changing that to Kami/Buddhist after I posted that.  Half or so cards point toward the Kami side, the other half towards the Buddhist side.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #452 on: May 02, 2013, 04:53:45 AM »
Youmu (Kami)
--Youmu 's stage:  Yuyuko and 5-6 others at random

Others? Youmu and Yuyuko don't have any friends except Yukari, and isn't she busy hanging around Reimu's stage? Youmu's stage will be Yuyuko eating popcorn and barely paying attention and a bunch of ghosts. :D Poor Youmu.

Kasen (? ? ? ?)
-- Kasen's stage: Komachi, Eiki, Yuuka, plus about 3-5 others seemingly thrown in at random

Kasen probably has pretty reasonable odds. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see her. A fighting game would actually be a cool place to debut a character from outside of the games in game form. Maybe Rinnosuke will be playable and will throw Gameboys at people.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #453 on: May 02, 2013, 04:57:33 AM »
Actually, I was debating changing that to Kami/Buddhist after I posted that.  Half or so cards point toward the Kami side, the other half towards the Buddhist side.

Uh... which ones are Shinto? Looking at her list, I don't think any would qualify. Keep in mind that there are Buddhist gods too, so just having the word "god" in there doesn't mean much.

Byakuren and Miko seem to be more active than their stage-5-boss counterparts, so it seems more like they'll get the spotlight over Shou or Futo. It's possible that they'll all show up, but I personally don't think that they'll really fit in. Also, Shou and Futo could probably appear in the backgrounds of Byakuren and Miko, respectively, so  ::)

I would agree that Byakuren and Miko seem more prominent than any of their followers, especially in contrast with older servant characters like Sakuya and Youmu. On the other hand, Shou shoots lots of lasers. Just from a gameplay perspective she seems fun to play. Not sure how much weight the designers would give that though. The fact that Ichirin was already included lowers the odds of any other non-Byakuren Buddhist though.

Futo seems like a really good background character, honestly.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #454 on: May 02, 2013, 04:59:11 AM »
commandercool: Actually, I'd argue that Kasen's chances of appearing are rather slim, because I don't see her showing up with a main part until her story in Wild and Horned Hermit is finished, and that still has several more chapters to go.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #455 on: May 02, 2013, 05:04:44 AM »
commandercool: Actually, I'd argue that Kasen's chances of appearing are rather slim, because I don't see her showing up with a main part until her story in Wild and Horned Hermit is finished, and that still has several more chapters to go.

Oh, fair enough. I'm pretty far behind on it and I guess I thought it was recently done. It would be kind of weird to have her appear on a game before all of the story about her is out. Maybe if we get a Hisoutensoku-style expansion pack she'll feature heavily in that.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #456 on: May 02, 2013, 08:33:27 AM »
Quote
I honestly don't think Kasen will get too involved (she's not even a real hermit, so even if she did get involved she wouldn't be on the side of the Taoists I would think).

Kasen is most likely a real hermit. There is nothing that stops an Oni from being a hermit.

Quote
Again, this isn't a problem for Mystia. Instead it's a problem for the world ZUN is trying to establish because it has lost a mechanism which was establishing the setting for use readers, and that is bad story telling.

I disagree. Why you would think every night sparrow is the same as each other. Wouldn't that be bad world building? There is no such thing as "generic" characters, they are only generic when you do not expand on them.

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Hatate's stage: Aya, Momiji, Nitori, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako (I think Reimu will be the sole Shinto representative, but I could be wrong)

Considering the story line, I would be utterly surprised if Reimu is the sole representative of Shinto.

I think Youmu has good odds of being in Hopeless Masquerade.
For Youmu's stage, I would think Yuyuko and the Prismriver sisters are there.

Also, since Akyuu is not seen in the human village, she may be a playable character. Unlike Kosuzu, Akyuu is not a new character, so it is very strange that she did not appear in the human village.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #457 on: May 02, 2013, 09:06:03 AM »
Kasen is most likely a real hermit. There is nothing that stops an Oni from being a hermit.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #458 on: May 02, 2013, 09:32:52 AM »

Spoiler:
Suika isn't psychic. She doesn't know what's going on other than what she's observed just now.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #459 on: May 02, 2013, 10:25:36 AM »
For Youmu's stage, I would think Yuyuko and the Prismriver sisters are there.
The Prismrivers are already featured in the Palanquin stage.

It's probably safe to say that ZUN had this game in mind when he made SoPM, so Kanako, Byakuren and Miko are very likely choices. Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!). I don't quite understand why you people say that they are anything less than "probable", considering ZUN has set them up to BE likely choices. This leaves us at 3 Shintoists, 3 Buddhists and 2 Taoists, so another Taoist will probably be added to balance the cast out. With Marisa and the new girl, that's 11 characters.
IaMP's cast don't really matter here because it already included all the relevant characters out of an existing cast of ~20 (discounting IN because IaMP is set before it). If IaMP picked 10 characters out of 10 candidates, why can't HM pick maybe 14 characters out of 14 candidates?
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #460 on: May 02, 2013, 10:37:44 AM »
Spoiler:
Suika isn't psychic. She doesn't know what's going on other than what she's observed just now.
Spoiler:
Well, the way I read that page, I assumed Kasen is not an actual hermit. It's not that she's most likely an Oni (I know Onis can be hermits), it's just the way Suika said that that made me think, "Wait a minute, Kasen's not really a hermit?!" The implication is there.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #461 on: May 02, 2013, 11:24:44 AM »
Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!).

I'm not sure he loves stage 5 bosses anymore. While early on there was obviously the trend of having them become protagonists in future games, that pattern seems to have stopped around SA. Utsuho got into 12.3 instead of Orin, and while we haven't actually seen anything definitive yet, both Shou and Futo seem to have diminished importance relative to the rest of the cast, especially the stage 4 boss. Actually, you can even go backwards and apply that to SA. Satori was the head of the household, and in some sense it could be considered her fault for not supervising Utsuho properly (not entirely her fault, of course). In UFO Minamitsu was the one who decided to go free Byakuren, and convinced Shou to participate. And, you know, captain of the flying boat. And of course in TD Seiga is the one who taught all the others Taoism and suggested the plan they tried to use to conquer Japan. While they may not fit the traditional archetype of "trusted servant", these stage 4 bosses kind of stole the show from the stage 5 bosses who have reduced importance to the plotline of their games.

Which is a long way of saying that I wouldn't be too surprised if Futo and/or Shou got skipped over. It's not really as guaranteed as it used to be.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #462 on: May 02, 2013, 11:51:25 AM »
Youmu's SC names are almost nothing but Buddhist references. She belongs to the heaven/hell system anyway, not the Shinto system.

Time to drop in a last minute speculation: the character's pose also reminds me of the dance of Central Asia nomads. This, plus her puffy skirt/trousers, and her seemingly rather complicated shoe design, could indicate a Central Asian motif.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #463 on: May 02, 2013, 12:39:44 PM »
While I agree she will represent Shinto, due to her title, I don't think she'll do it because she wants to. I get the impression that she hates all the religions, even her own. All she wants to do is keep the peace and then enjoy that peace.

Reimu seems to sigh and grudgingly engage in incident-solving for the sake of maintaining the harmony, yes.
That she hates all religions including her own, don't think so. She might moan about the tasks of a shrine maiden, but I think it might be a stretch to say this is her hating her own faith.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #464 on: May 02, 2013, 01:45:00 PM »
A Japanese Touhou fan made a video series where he visits Ise for the places where HM's lore may come from.

http://sp.nicovideo.jp/mylist/36518400
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #465 on: May 02, 2013, 01:48:11 PM »
...and as much as I don't want to derail the whole thing, I'll start by saying that I realize that ZUN makes these games for himself, not for the fans. That means that he will put in what ever he feels that he wants to put into it into the game.

If we wanted a different roster or something of a sort, well... (shrugs)

Anyways, I'm saying that it don't matter what we want in the end. ZUN will make it the way he wants, and we'll love it no matter what.
There is no greater joy than knowing that the Touhou invasion is unstoppable, and the legacy of Gensokyo will never fade away...

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #466 on: May 02, 2013, 03:39:40 PM »
It's not really about what we want, is it? I figured it was something like a guessing game where we try to figure out how ZUN and Tasofro think.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #467 on: May 02, 2013, 07:16:53 PM »
I used to be super excited about the game coming out to, well, *play it*, but now I think I'm looking forward to seeing the character roster so that the matter will be settled and that the random conjectures will stop.  :V To be honest, though, whining aside, I REALLY want to see who will be in the game so I can see their lovely sprites, new attacks, awesome Last Words, ear-tingling themes and interesting backgrounds.

Speaking of which, I gotta give whoever thought of the Last Word idea a heartfelt thanks. The other fighting games had arguably badass techniques that felt like "Big Great Attacks", but nothing too official. (Marisa and her endless amounts of level 5 sparks come to mind) Hopeless Masquerade adds some really awesome "final" techniques, what's with cut-ins, and general "Holy shit" feeling. I'm actually excited to see what others will get, aside from "Cool Mikos Don't Look At Explosions", "Marisa Can't Drive Properly" and "Cloud-Dad Will Punch Your Soul Out".

And I pray for a Seiga x Yoshika tag-team. That'd be a new thing among the Touhou fighting games, and would absolutely adorable. Think of the opening or finishing poses. THINK.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #468 on: May 02, 2013, 07:53:29 PM »
As for myself, I'm excited to see the roster too, especially to see how close to reality my predictions are going to be.

But what I'm the most excited about is the new girl. This Silhouette is intriguing not only me, but quite a number of people as well.

Sweetness and love~ ♥

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #469 on: May 02, 2013, 08:23:02 PM »
Alright, so I've had some more conversations about this and I see how Mystia's characterization don't stop her from being a world building character. We as readers can identify her eccentricities, subtract them and take what remains as more representative of her species as a whole. However, this leaves me with a new dilema, if Mystia does stuff like selling grilled lamprey and playing in a punk rock band then what to other Night Sparrows do? Is she just unnaturally proactive, while everyone else is lazy.
I suppose, this sort of relates back to my original point about her not being a world building character. When she became 3D it sort of raised the bar for other members of her species.
One species that I think ZUN is doing right, are the kappa. Nitori is the only kappa that we know. Some facts we know: she is curious about humans and she is an engineer. However, we've also seen kappa be active as a race, such as in WaHH, and we know that they are all engineers, and we even saw a few more examples of them. Nitori isn't extraordinary as a kappa but that doesn't stop her from being an interesting character and the fact that we know that Nitori isn't the only engineer kappa stops her from being out of place in Gensokyo.

Reimu seems to sigh and grudgingly engage in incident-solving for the sake of maintaining the harmony, yes.
That she hates all religions including her own, don't think so. She might moan about the tasks of a shrine maiden, but I think it might be a stretch to say this is her hating her own faith.
Yeah, hate was too strong a word there.

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #470 on: May 02, 2013, 08:35:15 PM »
The Tengu have a similar characterization. Both Aya and Momiji represents castes in their society, and as soon as Aya started to become more characterized as unusual we got another crow Tengu thrown in to give us some contrast.

I think the difference between Kappa/Tengu and Night Sparrows though is that there isn't a large population of Night Sparrows. They don't have a society or a culture to represent. They're just individual youkai working on their own, defined primarily by their gimmick of night-blindess through singing. What Mystia represents isn't "what Night Sparrows are" but "how ordinary low-level youkai have adapted their natures into a more harmless thing". In her case, she still uses her singing to attract people and make them blind, but instead of eating them she sells them food or concert tickets. For reference, in the same book where Mystia's lamprey stand was revealed Wriggle had an article about her starting her own business too, although that one failed. Mystia and Wriggle are lumped together as "low level youkai".
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 08:37:26 PM by Clarste »

Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #471 on: May 03, 2013, 11:18:35 AM »
Quote
However, this leaves me with a new dilema, if Mystia does stuff like selling grilled lamprey and playing in a punk rock band then what to other Night Sparrows do? Is she just unnaturally proactive, while everyone else is lazy.

Well, we only know a bit of what Night Sparrows do. We know that they can make pretty good Sake, as seen in the 3 fairies manga. What we do get from Mystia's introductions is that Night Sparrows exist, but not exactly what they do. What we got, at least what I got, from the 3 fairies manga is that Night Sparrows make sake. Mystia is special in the sense that she has a food cart and joins a punk rock band.

@Kasen: I'll just have to disagree that Kasen isn't a Hermit (Sennin). Komachi is around her a bit too much for her to be just another person/oni.

Quote
The Prismrivers are already featured in the Palanquin stage.

Yeah, I forgot all about that.

Quote
Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!). I don't quite understand why you people say that they are anything less than "probable", considering ZUN has set them up to BE likely choices. This leaves us at 3 Shintoists, 3 Buddhists and 2 Taoists, so another Taoist will probably be added to balance the cast out. With Marisa and the new girl, that's 11 characters.

The trend back then is that Stage 5 human bosses get to be in a normal shooter game. Orin, Futo and Shou are not human, so they may or may not appear. That said, I do believe their odds of appearing in Hopeless Masquerade are pretty high.
Youmu, while in no specific faction, I suspect would be a playable character. She would be a Buddhist, but not with the Buddhist faction, like Ichirin, Byakuren, Shou, etc.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #472 on: May 03, 2013, 01:14:58 PM »
@Kasen: I'll just have to disagree that Kasen isn't a Hermit (Sennin). Komachi is around her a bit too much for her to be just another person/oni.

I thought about that, but then I realized that perhaps Komachi doesn't know any better. It's merely a theory, and a crazy one at that, but it's very possible Kasen might be tricking even the shinigami. That's... kind of crazy (that or Komachi knows but is letting it slide because she's, well, Komachi).
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #473 on: May 03, 2013, 01:53:34 PM »
First, the important news: a new "rev2" version of the demo has been released. You can find it at Tasofro's site, or wait for a mirror. It features various bugfixes, code improvements (including net code) and small tweaks.

Most importantly:

The Windows XP problems should have been eliminated;
there are now 3 levels of graphic details instead of 2;
the full screen resolution options have been changed;

in the manual.txt file, the "recommended specs" (which was unchanged from the previous demo, so it still said "Intel Core2Duo") has been changed to "estimated specs", with system memory changed to "2GB and above", and an added note: "not guaranteed to be able to run the game". :V

the type of your deck is now displayed during the game play.

========

In speculation news, from my friend:

Two more candidates of the new character: Yamatohime, the high priestess who was said to have founded the Ise Shrine, and Empress Jingu, a warrior queen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamatohime-no-mikoto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Jingu

Both are figures whose historicity are highly debated. Some say they are fictional; some say they are the same person; some say either one of them is Himiko, the priestess queen recorded in Chinese history.

Interestingly, this year is also the time of Ise Shrine's rebuilding ceremony (the shrine is rebuilt every 20 years).
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cuc

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #474 on: May 03, 2013, 03:00:10 PM »
Gameplay has again been tweaked. Increasing popularity has become even easier. There may be new bugs.

The player icons are now put in a new folder separate from "Profile", called "御首頂戴帳". This is a rather complex pun to explain...

頂戴 originally means "receive sth. by putting both hands above one's head", which is of course the highest level of etiquette. It has become a polite word for "receive" in everyday language.

御首 is a polite word for "head". Apparently 御首頂戴 - "please graciously give me your head/I'll graciously take your head" is a real expression, and I may have heard of it. Other than anime and games, who would say that kind of thing in real life, a samurai to his opponent in a duel?

The customers' book in a restaraunt is often called 御意見頂戴帳, "book of graciously receiving your opinion". So 御首頂戴帳 is "book of graciously receiving your head".

U2 Akiyama (musician at Tasofro) has tweeted, the idea behind the name is that when you play other people online, their icons will also be saved in this directory, so you can use them too.

In his example, the alignment / deck type is 無 "none" (neutral), and the icon is 職 "job", so they combine into 無職 "unemployed".
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 03:03:29 PM by cuc »
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #475 on: May 03, 2013, 03:05:33 PM »
Ah, so in fact your own made icon is actually visible for the other player! That's nice. Was wondering about that when I saw a video on nicovideo of someone making his own icon for the game.

And the CPU have definitely been improved.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 03:13:04 PM by Quwanti »

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #476 on: May 03, 2013, 04:35:42 PM »
Sorry if this is old, but has anyone taken a look at the official cover yet? It's just released!



http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/

It looks like some kind of spirit... or is it related to plants?

Just some weirdo, move along!

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #477 on: May 03, 2013, 04:42:07 PM »
Sorry if this is old, but has anyone taken a look at the official cover yet? It's just released!



http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/

It looks like some kind of spirit... or is it related to plants?

Yeah, we started talking about this here.

Pretty much everyone here agrees it's Mima.

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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #478 on: May 03, 2013, 04:58:14 PM »
I don't see how it couldn't be Mima.
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Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
« Reply #479 on: May 03, 2013, 05:04:15 PM »
^ Yuki Mori was being sarcastic.

EDIT: Oh, sorry...  Thought you said "I don't see how it could be Mima."
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 05:06:03 PM by game2011 »