Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition

[Tengukami]

Heh.

Man, I had a feeling that chart was going to attract all kinds of hair-splitting, but I had no idea. What a fun read.

Aya probably need a blanket statement under her or something saying "Disliked by most people."  Since the chart would be FILLED with lines, otherwise. As it is, she's disliked by so many people that her being disliked by someone is more akin to "a natural occurence" than an actual relationship.

Her paper is regarded by general consensus in Gensokyo to be a gossip mag, but that doesn't necessarily mean she, herself, is disliked by most in Gensokyo. And even if that were the case, there are likely degrees of dislike, just as there are between us regular non-magical humans - maybe some folks loathe her, while some are just kinda irked by her, while some are just pretty shrug about it. So maybe the "dislike" lines should be color-coded for matters of degree of dislike.

Having said that, it appears she has an indeterminate number of friends and allies - like a lot of these folks - so it'd be fairly difficult to make relationship lines with any accuracy. I think blanket statements would cause more confusion than clarity.

[Prime32]

Probably safe to assume Suwako knows Hina, in fact, since Hina is a Curse Goddess and Suwako can control them...

Suwako doesn't control curse goddesses, she controls the Mishaguji; they're earth, curse and harvest gods who arose as personifications of the Moriya area, as is Suwako. They're practically two aspects of the same being. And wasn't Hina supposed to be more a youkai than an actual god?

[Tiamat]

Heh.

Man, I had a feeling that chart was going to attract all kinds of hair-splitting, but I had no idea. What a fun read.

Her paper is regarded by general consensus in Gensokyo to be a gossip mag, but that doesn't necessarily mean she, herself, is disliked by most in Gensokyo. And even if that were the case, there are likely degrees of dislike, just as there are between us regular non-magical humans - maybe some folks loathe her, while some are just kinda irked by her, while some are just pretty shrug about it. So maybe the "dislike" lines should be color-coded for matters of degree of dislike.

Having said that, it appears she has an indeterminate number of friends and allies - like a lot of these folks - so it'd be fairly difficult to make relationship lines with any accuracy. I think blanket statements would cause more confusion than clarity.

In that case, then, the normal "dislike" can just be treated as the natural occurrence and not be mentioned, but any particular extreme/odd cases can be, I guess. Hilariously, in this case, "Death threat" would NOT be an extreme case (then again, technically, the same could probably be said for Reimu)

[Imosa]

Some more suggestions, keep the lines between people in the same subgraph within that some subgraph and don't let lines not concerning a subgraph run through that subgraph.

[Tengukami]

It just occurred to me that I would love to see this in Venn Diagram format, but I think I would go insane if I tried.

[Imosa]

It just occurred to me that I would love to see this in Venn Diagram format, but I think I would go insane if I tried.

Rather boring, I should think. In Venn diagrams the circles are states of relationships and the points are relationships, located depending on what the state is. In this case we have a few states and tons of relationships. It would look something like this:

Note that "customer", "friend", and "enemy" both fall under "knowing", with "family" being possible without knowing someone.
Of course this assumes all relationships are mutual, which they aren't. Also just for completeness sake, we should note the (however many)! number of relationships that don't exist at all, outside all of the circles in that their state is non-existent.

[Tengukami]

Rather boring, I should think.

Maybe with a small set, as you show, but the entire cast? Doubt it'd be that simple.

[Imosa]

Maybe with a small set, as you show, but the entire cast? Doubt it'd be that simple.

With the entire cast, so much of this chart would be words, instead of graphical representation, which would almost defeat the purpose of the chart. That might be nice for some people but I would find it to be a boring chart. This just isn't the kind of information that should be displayed on a Venn Diagram.

[Tengukami]

With the entire cast, so much of this chart would be words, instead of graphical representation, which would almost defeat the purpose of the chart.

Are you sure about that? Maybe we have different ideas of how Venn Diagrams work. As I see it, the names shouldn't repeat themselves, as they do in your example. You wouldn't write "Character A+Character X",  "Character A+Character Y", "Character A+Character Z" and so forth - rather, Characters A, X, Y and Z would be inside the same circle - but X, Y and Z would be in circles pertaining to each other that accurately reflected their relationship to each other. You see how this would get confusing?

These circles would have to be color-coded to accurately reflect their relationship. Character A would also be in a few overlapping circles - with mutual friends, enemies and so on - as would X, Y and Z. So the text shouldn't be heavy at all - just one instance of each name. You just have to arrange the overlapping circles and the sets within them correctly. That would include not having two separate instances of the same name (such as "Marisa+Sanori" - guessing you meant "Satori" there - and "Koishi+ Satori").

These permutations are why I say things would get confusing to map out. If you just tack repeating names together in the same circles, yeah, that gets text-heavy and very boring, but I'm pretty sure that'd be cutting some Venn Diagram corners, and would indeed be sloppy to look at.

Edited for clarity, hopefully.

[Imosa]

Are you sure about that? Maybe we have different ideas of how Venn Diagrams work. As I see it, the names shouldn't repeat themselves, as they do in your example. You wouldn't write "Character A+Character X",  "Character A+Character Y", "Character A+Character Z" and so forth - rather, Characters A, X, Y and Z would be inside the same circle. These circles would have to be color-coded to accurately reflect their relationship. Character A would also be in a few overlapping circles - with mutual friends, enemies and so on - as would X, Y and Z. So the text shouldn't be heavy at all - just one instance of each name. You just have to arrange the overlapping circles and the sets within them correctly. That would include not having two separate instances of the same name (such as "Marisa+Sanori" - guessing you meant "Satori" there - and "Koishi+ Satori").

Ok. That's certainly not the traditional use of a Venn diagram but that would be more interesting. While that could be interesting in some cases I would say it wouldn't be interesting in this one. I think that this would be an interesting graph if there were a number of circles of 4-5 mutual friends, and these circles linked to form something like a chain mail of friendship.  As it stands you would have a lot of circles containing only two people, which might as just be draw a line.

Kind of Off-Topic, and I'm sorry for that but this is a touhou character chart worth looking at. The guy also has more... they are just so cool.

[DeltaSierra4]

Wait, how can u make a Venn diagram format out of the entire cast? There will be circles going all over the place; probably it'll best work with a selected few characters that are related to a lot of others (like Reimu, Marisa, Yukari, etc.) but I'm not sure how it would work for the entire cast.

Kind of Off-Topic, and I'm sorry for that but this is a touhou character chart worth looking at. The guy also has more... they are just so cool.

Haha nice work, and indeed it looks as complicated as a Japanese subway map lol

Going off topic even more, but then there's also that relationship chart among Touhous using GTA San Andreas... Dunno where it is though.

[Alfred F. Jones]

Damn, DeltaSierra beat me to it. That chart looks very much like a subway map. A really weird subway.

Lord Phr0zen's chart is still the best, I think, because he has a real knack for laying out the relationships between characters in an easy-to-understand way. I would really love to see that one updated. Not that more attempts are unwelcome somehow, but it feels like reinventing the wheel.

[Arcengal]

I feel so weird asking this.

Bottom row in OP's chart, third along, next to Akyu.
Who the heck is that? I thought it must be Kasen but she's in the middle.

[Sungho]

Motoori Kosuzu, new character from 東方鈴奈庵 ~ Forbidden Scrollery.

[Aya Reiko]

Or Red ones. Aya is not well-liked.

The same can be said of Satori.

[Starxsword]

Simply being familiar with each other doesn't really guarantee blue lines.  If that was the case, then certain characters like Kogasa, Kisume, Parsee, etc. should all have blue lines connecting them to people like Reimu and Marisa, since the latter two are obviously familiar with them.

Meeting Reimu once does not really mean they know Reimu or vice versa. It is kind of like walking along the street, talking to a stranger once, but you would not know the stranger. With the exception of Kogasa, I don't think Kisume or Parsee are good examples.

The thing is that picture of team 9 indicates that they are grouped together. They were also together when they tried to scare Youmu, so there should be some kind of relationship between them, if at the very least, knowing each other.

That said, the chart is good, but I hope to see improvements.

[Tiamat]

"Team 9" was also grouped together when the 3 fairies put together a festival at the shrine. However, I personally think that this "grouping" occurs mainly cause ZUN was just trying to purposefully select the stupidest/weakest named youkai that existed for both scenes.

[game2011]

Meeting Reimu once does not really mean they know Reimu or vice versa. It is kind of like walking along the street, talking to a stranger once, but you would not know the stranger. With the exception of Kogasa, I don't think Kisume or Parsee are good examples.

It may be true with Kisume, but Reimu definitely interacted with Parsee more than her.  It's not like Reimu suddenly walked up to her and beat her up without saying anything or saying very little.  Both sides exchanged dialogues to get to know each other better before fighting, so they are definitely not complete strangers toward each other.

[Tengukami]

Kind of Off-Topic, and I'm sorry for that but this is a touhou character chart worth looking at. The guy also has more... they are just so cool.

Now this is a really novel approach. You have the connections all there, but it doesn't get too confusing. Also seems more accurate than the one in the OP.

[Imosa]

Now this is a really novel approach. You have the connections all there, but it doesn't get too confusing. Also seems more accurate than the one in the OP.

It's also mapping something different, appearance in games rather then cannon relationships.

[Aya Reiko]

Made a few tweaks.  I'll probably make a few more, such as splitting Teacher -> Student separate from the yellow line.

[Imosa]

Made a few tweaks.  I'll probably make a few more, such as splitting Teacher -> Student separate from the yellow line.

I dunno, I feel like you'd be stretching it a little thin there. Also, is there a significant difference between "Circle of friends" and "all familiar"?

[Tengukami]

It's also mapping something different, appearance in games rather then cannon relationships.

Yes, which lends to the simplicity.

The reason why I knew a "relationship" chart was going to bring out the pedants was because so much of what we know about the relationships between Gensokyans is up to conjecture. It's hard enough to find the line between "know each other" and "friend" out here in the real world.

Cannon appearances, though, no sweat.

[Limian]

I dunno, I feel like you'd be stretching it a little thin there. Also, is there a significant difference between "Circle of friends" and "all familiar"?

It's the same difference as between the blue and green lines. For example, Sunny and Luna are obviously friends, while Tewi and Kaguya aren't (where'd the Tewi/Eirin friendship line come from, btw). And Patch/Remi and Meiling/Sakuya are more tight with each other than they are criss-cross (well, Sakuya and Remi are pretty attached to each other, but it isn't really a friendship, at least not canonically). I'm not quite sure how the Moriya crew qualifies as friends (mostly Sanae <-> goddesses) when it's more of a master-servant relationship, though.
I also think that Mamizou doesn't belong into the Myouren box seeing as I'm not quite sure whether Byakuren is even familiar with her (should reread SoPM aaaah).
Furthermore, I suggest moving Seiga/Yoshika towards Miko & co. and throw the Aki sisters out just for the sake of simplicity (bringing Komachi/Eiki closer to the centre also would make stuff a bit clearer but by then you're running out of room... maybe move Aya/Hatate/everyone beyond them to the right and fit them here).
I suppose boxing Yuyuko/Youmu in with the Yakumos also has its merits, although I'm not quite sure how familiar they are with Chen (then again Koakuma/Sakuya or Ichirin/Kyouko don't have strict bases on canon so it should be fine).
That's about it for suggestions I have for now.

Also the subway map is really spiffy.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I also think that Mamizou doesn't belong into the Myouren box seeing as I'm not quite sure whether Byakuren is even familiar with her (should reread SoPM aaaah).

Byakuren: "Well, it is true that we've also had a bake-danuki settle down in our temple." She also mentions her in part 2, so yes, she does know of Mamizou, if that answers your question.

[Starxsword]

Made a few tweaks.  I'll probably make a few more, such as splitting Teacher -> Student separate from the yellow line.

Some more nit picking, I don't think Byakuren should be Nazrin's master, I don't think Nazrin is under Byakuren, just Shou.

"Team 9" was also grouped together when the 3 fairies put together a festival at the shrine. However, I personally think that this "grouping" occurs mainly cause ZUN was just trying to purposefully select the stupidest/weakest named youkai that existed for both scenes.

Well, I mean if they are together, it would indicate they know each other, yes? Familiar enough with each other to scare Youmu as a group. While, I don't think they should have a green, but I think they need a blue line.

It may be true with Kisume, but Reimu definitely interacted with Parsee more than her.  It's not like Reimu suddenly walked up to her and beat her up without saying anything or saying very little.  Both sides exchanged dialogues to get to know each other better before fighting, so they are definitely not complete strangers toward each other.

I find exchanging dialogues and fighting is a bit different from forming a group and doing something together. I think of spell card rules as a kind of sport. You go around fighting against unknown opponents and thus before combat, you trash talk each other. Then you fight, but unless you face them several times, you wouldn't know them, so no blue line.
Another example would be kind of like going to a tournament, you face someone once and you play against them. You wouldn't know them, but you do speak to each other during that game. Until you meet that person several more times, I would not count a single meeting as knowing them.

[Zerviscos]

Oh.My.God. The confusion is uncanny. Blue lines in the middle are so many. It's like a knotted highway that cars cannot traverse well. I find Nasuverse much more understandable than this...or maybe it's cause of it's "words".

[Imosa]

Oh.My.God. The confusion is uncanny. Blue lines in the middle are so many. It's like a knotted highway that cars cannot traverse well. I find Nasuverse much more understandable than this...or maybe it's cause of it's "words".

Incidentally that was also made by Lord Frozen.  It's just disorganized now because it's still being worked on.

[Alicirno]

This is a great representation of canon relationships. It's often confusing to figure out how characters are related to each other with so much fanon floating about.
The only issue I have is the lack of lines between Eirin (and Reisen?)/Medicine, because they are familiar with each other based on PoFV.

[Imosa]

Don't tell me this is dieing. I've been working on some things relating to this. Upon reading Symposium of Post-mysticism, I'm realizing the complexity between Shou, Byakuren, and Nazarin. Is Nazarin to Shou as Ran is to Yukari? SoPM calls Nazarin Shou's familiar, after all. Also including Bishamonten might not be such a stupid idea.
In other news, I've been working on building this chart in visio, in a way that's a bit more reminiscent of Lord Frozen.
I've also been working on a program that converts a spread sheet into a chart but results have been questionable at best.
http://i.imgur.com/JhpkO.png http://i.imgur.com/sYEyu.png