Author Topic: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition  (Read 116883 times)

Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #210 on: March 07, 2013, 03:55:11 PM »
Kasen used magic to make it so you have to follow a very specific path in order to find her house, it's a very common trope in stories.

It's very considerate of you to not use in-game sprites. ZUN would approve of that. But has KirbyM ever drawn Unzan?
Is that all it is? That makes sense.
Also the image choice was because I wanted consistency, something lacking in Lord Phr0zen's chart, I wanted a simple style to fit my theme, something lacking in the alphes style, and I wanted to be popular without doing any real work by associating with an artist who was already popular.

So this is an idea I had, and it may be too much trouble to implement this, but would it be worth while to create New Hell and put the Oni into it. It may interest people to know that we do know where all the other Oni are. Also the Oni chiefs are the things in charge of trying to kill hermits. I dunno, maybe that's going too far outside of the scope of actual characters.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 04:34:53 PM by Imosa »

Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #211 on: March 07, 2013, 11:56:16 PM »
The Sakuya Alice thing comes from the fact that pretty much every dialogue the two have with each other, they're practically trying to bully each other (Sakuya moreso to Alice than vice-versa, but Alice too sometimes). While it's true that most Touhou characters have a thing for fighting each other for no reason whatsoever, the general tone of the dialogues from what I saw was that Alice tended to be particularly singled out. At least Marisa sometimes gets purposefully glanced over once she's through the door.

To give the canon interactions between them, the first meeting in PCB was Alice clearly baiting Sakuya both before and after the knife thing. In IN, Alice attacks Sakuya just for accidentally visiting her house, while Sakuya baits Alice into fighting her similar to what Alice did in PCB. Finally, in SWR, even after Alice has already left the mansion, Sakuya attacks her anyways to punish her, at which point even Alice thinks that's a dumb reason.

Again, it's true that most characters will outright make up reasons to fight each other, but Alice and Sakuya seems to be the only one where they actually actively bait each other and don't believe each others' excuses.  The wiki (which I wrote in this case) only mentions the fighting part and doesn't analyze why, mainly because it's up to interpretation. However, going by Sakuya's stress-relief statements and their thinly veiled excuses, my own personal opinion is that it almost seems like it's a lesser version of Kaguya and Mokou's relationship where the two just like fighting each other.

As an aside, Sakuya's human (so she claims) but she's a wierdo by human standards. It's to the point where, if I recall correctly, at a party at the shrine, Reimu was complaining about how only youkai were there and Sakuya said "I'm human" and Reimu said "You don't count!" or something like that. Remilia also says she has trouble thinking of Sakuya as a human in their IN ending (because Sakuya served her for so long, but that's another reason why humans in general are confused about her). Then again, Alice is kinda unnerving too to humans, but only because she can be so aloof when she's researching.

Yukari referring to Chen as both our cat and a shikigami is in one of the dialogues preceding a battle with Orin vs Reimu & Yukari.

Sunny's angry tirade about Lily just because Lily was so much as MENTIONED seems to indicate to me a rather significant dislike. However, as this was the only time it's ever shown to come up and we're never told exactly what happened between the two, it's rather hard to say what the specific relationship is. Still, it seems to be more than just an isolated incident to me judging by the length of Sunny's rant about Lily just because Lily came up in conversation.

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #212 on: March 08, 2013, 04:06:58 AM »
>Graphics

If you don't want to use game sprites, you should be thorough, and replace the Unzan sprite as well. Maybe ask KirbyM to draw Unzan, too?

>New Hell

We haven't properly visited New Hell and meet its residents yet, so it's indeed out of the scope to add New Hell now.

>Hermithood

There's no solid evidence that shikasen are not hermits, either. We only know so much about how things are in the Touhou universe; but if you look at the word's original source, it's listed as the third type of hermits, after the heavenly and the earthly.

By the way, Miko is at least part Divine, that's actually the main point of the TD story, and also pointed out in SoPM. In this regard, vgboy's TD script translation contains an important mistake: in Marisa's normal ending, it should say the small divine spirits disappeared because Miko absorbed them.

>Fiend

Oni being considered the Japanese counterpart of the Western Demons was definitely a thing, see PCB Sakuya Phantasm scenario. Suika's lines in IaMP Alice scenario might be another clue. The only problem is whether this is still a thing in current canon.

Who come up with the "fiend" category, anyway? Lord Phr0zen?

>Description

I'll see what other people suggest.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 04:14:51 AM by cuc »
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Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #213 on: March 08, 2013, 04:29:16 AM »
Update. I took into account most of the suggestions made since the last version.
I do want to hear about the divinity thing a little more.
For Miko: I have no trouble taking your word on it so long as nobody else has any serious objections (she is called a saint) but do we actually know what these divine spirits let her do? Does she interact with faith at all?
For Okuu: cuc, said she wasn't a god but didn't she fuse with a god? When she was called a walking shrine could it refer to the fact that both shrines and Okuu "contain" a god? If I didn't call Okuu a half god I almost feel I'd need to address this by adding Yatagarasu. It does seem kinda important.
Kanako & Suwako: Wasn't there a distinction made between these two, that if Kanako lost faith she would revert to a youkai, while if Suwako lost faith she would disappear entirely (being a myriad god). I'm thinking Kanako should be part Humanoid.

I got Unzan from walfas, I assume he did draw it.

Sagus

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #214 on: March 08, 2013, 06:28:48 AM »
SoPM says that Kanako came from a divine spirit (either one or a group of them), so if she lost all her faith she'd go back to that; Suwako is one of the Myriad Gods and therefore is made of pure faith, so she'd vanish if she lost all of it. I don't think it's really necessary to make Kanako part humanoid; for all intents and purposes she's just like Suwako.

Utsuho does contain the Yatagarasu within her, but the Yatagarasu seems to still be alive; in SoPM Akyuu wonders how the god must feel living in a place like Old Hell. Then again, Akyuu knew next to nothing about Utsuho, so...
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 06:32:31 AM by Sagus »
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cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #215 on: March 08, 2013, 07:13:08 AM »
About "fiend": I forgot the whole running gag of "vampires have oni weaknesses".

>General

Some line clusters are too close, and could be more spread out, especially those above Luna and to the left of Sakuya.

>Aki sisters and "Autumn Season"

SoPM says Shizuha is mostly active in Youkai Mountain and Forest of Magic, while Minoriko is mostly active in Human Village. It's better to separate "Autumn Season" out from Youkai Mountain, since like Lily White, they can appear in all of Gensokyo.

>Locations

To be strict, "Inside the Clouds" and "Bhava agra" (both are parts of the Heavens), and "Underworld" (Former Hell) all should be "Not in Gensokyo". At most, "Inside the Clouds" and upper levels of Underworld can be debateable.

The color coding for location types could be more distinctive.

>"Exact Location Unknown" tag

This... creates additional trouble. Anyway, Suika really needs it (as one of the most powerful characters who can also turn into mist, she can be anywhere she wants), while Letty doesn't need it more than Lily White does.

>Okuu

There's a small mistranslation on the current wiki SoPM Utsuho entry. The Yatagarasu in Okuu is a 分霊, a partition of Yatagarasu ("gods can be infinitely divided"), not the whole god. And yeah, even the part in Okuu is still quite alive. That's why the vessel must have a simple mind, to avoid conflict with the god. So Okuu has definitely not absorbed Yatagarasu.

It's better to add Yatagarasu. My suggestion: Okuu is its "vessel", and Kanako's line points to the "vessel" node: she "arranged" it, something like that.

>Miko

First of all, Miko is divine, because she's a historical figure who has been worshipped as a god after her "death".

The small divine spirits are human prayers and wishes, that is to say, raw faith itself. In theory, a god should give blessings in return of the faith, but Miko instead seems to prefer to take advantage of people by listening to their desires.


Yuyuko is a true glutton. She ate her snacks very fast in SSiB, and Sakuya joked about her gluttony in Soku.

Ran is a nine-tailed fox. The description should emphasize this before everything else.

Unzan's title is "The Big Wheel That Guards and is Guarded", his "Guardian" status with Ichirin is mutual. There's no evidence that he was once human, and nyuudou don't have to be former humans, so he should be... "Unclassified"?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 08:03:24 AM by cuc »
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Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #216 on: March 08, 2013, 08:18:26 AM »
SoPM says that Kanako came from a divine spirit (either one or a group of them), so if she lost all her faith she'd go back to that; Suwako is one of the Myriad Gods and therefore is made of pure faith, so she'd vanish if she lost all of it. I don't think it's really necessary to make Kanako part humanoid; for all intents and purposes she's just like Suwako. Maybe. I thought Kanako confirmed her origin's in the story portion of SoPM.

Utsuho does contain the Yatagarasu within her, but the Yatagarasu seems to still be alive; in SoPM Akyuu wonders how the god must feel living in a place like Old Hell. Then again, Akyuu knew next to nothing about Utsuho, so...

About "fiend": I forgot the whole running gag of "vampires have oni weaknesses".

Divinity is more troublesome than any other categories, because the line between what is and is not a kami is blurry. Akyuu has said in SoPM that Hina shouldn't be called a kami, since Hina doesn't seem to subsist on faith. I don't think the chart has to follow Akyuu with regards to Hina. I dunno. We've talked a lot about Hina's status and at this point I'm not even sure Akyuu was saying that Hina isn't a god.

>Aki sisters and "Autumn Season"

SoPM says Shizuha is mostly active in Youkai Mountain and Forest of Magic, while Minoriko is mostly active in Human Village. It's better to separate "Autumn Season" out from Youkai Mountain, since like Lily White, they can appear in all of Gensokyo. Damn, LP messed up bad. I should have checked that. This might be hard to solve. They don't disappear when it's not autumn right? Might it be a good idea just to stick one into the human village and the other into the forest of magic?

>Locations

To be strict, "Inside the Clouds" and "Bhava agra" (both are parts of the Heavens), and "Underworld" (Former Hell) all should be "Not in Gensokyo". At most, "Inside the Clouds" and upper levels of Underworld is debateable. Alright. Incidentally should I just rename the "Underworld" as "Former Hell"?

The color coding for location types probably can be more distinctive. What do you mean? What's more distinctive then red green and blue?

>"Exact Location Unknown" tag

This... creates additional trouble. Anyway, Suika really needs it (as one of the most powerful characters who can also turn into mist, she can be anywhere she wants), while Letty doesn't need it more than Lily White does. The thought process behind it was for people like Segia, who don't really have a set home, or at least none that we know about. I gave it to Rumia because I think it applies. Letty and Lily got it because they're not around most of the time and when they are they operate in many places. I guess it also works for Suika and the fact that she lives all over the place. I won't give them to Myouren, Youki, and Bishamonten since their locations makes the tag redundant.

>Okuu

There's a small mistranslation on the current wiki SoPM Utsuho entry. The Yatagarasu in Okuu is a 分霊, a partition of Yatagarasu ("gods can be infinitely divided"), not the whole god. And yeah, even the part in Okuu is still quite alive. That's why the vessel must have a simple mind, to avoid conflict with the god. So Okuu has definitely not absorbed Yatagarasu. Well, it's not like it can just up an leave (can it?)

It's better to add Yatagarasu. My suggestion: Okuu is its "vessel", and Kanako's line points to the "vessel" node: she "arranged" it, something like that. Alright, luckily there's room in the underworld for a change like this.

>Miko

First of all, Miko is divine, because she's a historical figure who was worshipped as a god after her "death". Like, in real life, that actually happened?

The small divine spirits are human prayers and wishes, that is to say, raw faith itself. In theory, a god should give blessings in return of the faith, but Miko instead seems to prefer to take advantage of people by listening to their desires.


Yuyuko is a true glutton. She ate her snacks very fast in SSiB, and Sakuya joked about her gluttony in Soku.

Ran is a nine-tailed fox. The description should emphasize this before everything else. Why? It's a relationship chart so character descriptions should inform people on issues that would influence relationships. That's why I'm focusing on personality. In my reading of the wiki article I couldn't glean much so I left the note (little did I know this would the case with a lot of characters)

Unzan's title is "The Big Wheel That Guards and is Guarded", his "Guardian" status with Ichirin is mutual. There's no evidence that he was once human, and nyuudou don't have to be former humans, so he should be... "Unclassified"? SoPM says "Foreseeing Nyuudou are youkai that were originally monks who were unable to see anything but their own feet."


Some line clusters are too close, and should be more spread out, especially those above Luna and to the left of Sakuya. I'll see what I can do. The lines about Luna will probably stay that way but the ones beside Sakuya will improve.

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #217 on: March 08, 2013, 09:16:12 AM »
Quote
SoPM says "Foreseeing Nyuudou are youkai that were originally monks who were unable to see anything but their own feet."
That's an old mistranslation, already fixed on the wiki now (though the wording is awkward). My translation: "Mikoshi Nyuudou are [a type of] youkai monks. At first you can only see their feet."

Quote
Like, in real life, that actually happened?
It has happened in real life. In general, theoretically every deceased person should be enshrined as a kami in Japan, not to mention Shoutoku, a great person in history. In particular, Shoutoku was believed by some to be an avatar of the bodhisattva Kannon, and Miko's spell cards and the aura behind her back are references to that.

Quote
Alright. Incidentally should I just rename the "Underworld" as "Former Hell"?
According to SoPM, Yamame's SA Stage 1 is a cave at the foot of Youkai mountain, and Former Hell starts properly with Parsee and Stage 2.

I think: put Yamame and Kisume in a separate location, "Underground", which is "In Gensokyo", and the other characters in "Former Hell" which is "Not In Gensokyo", and make it clear that Parsee guards the bridge between the mortal world and Former Hell (source: her profile).

Quote
Why? It's a relationship chart so character descriptions should inform people on issues that would influence relationships. That's why I'm focusing on personality. In my reading of the wiki article I couldn't glean much so I left the note (little did I know this would the case with a lot of characters)
I see. If you want to focus on personality for the descriptions, we'll have to go over that for each character. Ran is said to have a mild personality that's not abrasive (profile); but when Yukari is absent, she took over the Netherworld garden for her own flower viewing feast, that's why Yuyuko asked the protagonists to punish her (PCB Extra story). When Yukari is present, she acts as if she can't think for herself.

...That's way too difficult. I think it's better to only focus on social positions. Ran is a powerful nine-tailed fox, that counts for a lot, for a youkai.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 09:25:07 AM by cuc »
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cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #218 on: March 08, 2013, 09:34:08 AM »
Aki sisters are better together. It's not like human village doesn't have red leaves in autumn.

Yatagarasu of course should be in another Unknown box.

I prefer thinking of Okuu as a conduit, and Yatagarasu as water. Since she functions well as a conduit, it's actually hard for the water flow to destroy it.

In case people didn't notice: there is a long descent between SA Stage 1 and 2 ("this is the 666th level underground").

About the fact that Parsee is a goddess (her profile: "guardian god", current wiki translation is "guardian spirit"): looking up her species "hashihime", they definitely are a type of goddesses, and the hashihime well-known for the jealousy story is just one of them. Parsee should be divine, too.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 10:26:03 AM by cuc »
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Sagus

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2013, 01:30:55 PM »
Can you give the source on that hashihime being a type of goddess? I can barely find any info about that creature.

I think Okuu is pretty much a shrinego-shintai combo. She houses a part of a god (like a shrine) and can uses it's powers through the god's blessings (nuclear fusion is Yatagarasu's blessing).
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cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #220 on: March 08, 2013, 02:11:07 PM »
Authoritative dictionaries, or, just Japanese Wikipedia. There's a Hashihime Shrine, dedicated to the most famous hashihime, the Hashihime of Uji. In ancient times, there should be a shrine for each hashihime.

According to the Wikipedia article, which actually reads sorta reliable, hashihime originated as goddesses and the idea of hashihime as ghosts came later. And even before the most famous hashihime stories, the goddess(es) have been associated with jealousy.

Two of the dictionaries quoted in the first link just say hashihime is a type of goddess, not even mentioning the ghost part.

It doesn't matter who Parsee is, since the omniscient narrator calls her a goddess in her profile.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 02:59:39 PM by cuc »
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Sagus

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #221 on: March 08, 2013, 03:20:15 PM »
Goddamnit, that's why I should just go and learn moonspeak already :V
Peketo's Drawing Stuffs
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Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #222 on: March 08, 2013, 05:43:26 PM »
That's an old mistranslation, already fixed on the wiki now (though the wording is awkward). My translation: "Mikoshi Nyuudou are [a type of] youkai monks. At first you can only see their feet."
Unfortunate. For his species, I guess humanoid wouldn't be proper since he isn't that much of a human shape. So yeah, I guess unclassified.
According to SoPM, Yamame's SA Stage 1 is a cave at the foot of Youkai mountain, and Former Hell starts properly with Parsee and Stage 2.
I think: put Yamame and Kisume in a separate location, "Underground", which is "In Gensokyo", and the other characters in "Former Hell" which is "Not In Gensokyo", and make it clear that Parsee guards the bridge between the mortal world and Former Hell (source: her profile).
Alright. That may be a little hard to fit in but I'll probably figure it out.
I see. If you want to focus on personality for the descriptions, we'll have to go over that for each character. Ran is said to have a mild personality that's not abrasive (profile); but when Yukari is absent, she took over the Netherworld garden for her own flower viewing feast, that's why Yuyuko asked the protagonists to punish her (PCB Extra story). When Yukari is present, she acts as if she can't think for herself.

...That's way too difficult. I think it's better to only focus on social positions. Ran is a powerful nine-tailed fox, that counts for a lot, for a youkai.
Well I'll work on it. In retrospect Ran isn't nearly as hard as some people that I've done since then.
Aki sisters are better together. It's not like human village doesn't have red leaves in autumn.
*shrug* Locations aren't exactly set in stone.
Yatagarasu of course should be in another Unknown box.
Right
In case people didn't notice: there is a long descent between SA Stage 1 and 2 ("this is the 666th level underground").
I did not
About the fact that Parsee is a goddess (her profile: "guardian god", current wiki translation is "guardian spirit"): looking up her species "hashihime", they definitely are a type of goddesses, and the hashihime well-known for the jealousy story is just one of them. Parsee should be divine, too.
That's kinda coming out of nowhere. I'm gonna try to look into this a bit.


Update
I made all those changes to the underground, made Miko divine, made Unzan unknown and erased his description, and gave Ran a description.
For the descriptions it always annoyed me how everything starts with A or The. I'm thinking that in the spirit of trimming fat I can rework things to be more concise. For example, Shikieiki's description would turn from "A strict moral judge who gives long lectures" to "strict moral judge, gives long lectures". I'm wondering, would this somehow make things somehow awkward to read? I've tried this for a few other people like Ran, Yukari, Lily White.


I checked Hina's location in SoPM and is doesn't say anything about Youkai Mountain. It does mention Muenzuka. if we should put here there.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 02:29:27 AM by Imosa »

Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #223 on: March 09, 2013, 08:06:02 AM »
Quote
There's no reason Futo is not categorized a hermit. Shikasen is definitely a type of hermit.

I agree, those should be categorized as a hermit. But please note that Shikaisen are considered different from true hermits, even if they both count as hermits.

Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #224 on: March 09, 2013, 08:47:22 AM »
Wait, why is Medicine listed as a ghost?

Also, maybe this is too recent but the latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery has Kosuzu start to idolize Mamizou. While this may be a one-off joke, I think it's pretty cute and funny and deserves to be on the chart.

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #225 on: March 09, 2013, 10:40:14 AM »
The manga spent so much time building up to Mamizou's part in Chapter 5, there's no way it's one-off.

>Parsee

Probably that's the point: she should be a goddess, but no one remembers that.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 10:43:00 AM by cuc »
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Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #226 on: March 09, 2013, 02:17:11 PM »
I agree, those should be categorized as a hermit. But please note that Shikaisen are considered different from true hermits, even if they both count as hermits.
A distinction like that may be beyond the scope of the chart.

Wait, why is Medicine listed as a ghost?

Also, maybe this is too recent but the latest chapter of Forbidden Scrollery has Kosuzu start to idolize Mamizou. While this may be a one-off joke, I think it's pretty cute and funny and deserves to be on the chart.
I'm not sure if it's proper but I read that she is or at least is thought to be a spirit that inhabited a doll.
Also yes, I read that last night and it went right on. Except I'm thinking I should give it a note that Kosuzu doesn't actually know who Mamizou is, since she has only seen a human who hasn't given a name.

>Parsee

Probably that's the point: she should be a goddess, but no one remembers that.
Maybe that's why she's got such a bad attitude.

Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #227 on: March 16, 2013, 06:07:29 AM »
Update. It's been another while. Unfortunately the chart did not get done last week and as expected I'm swamped. It's a real shame. However, it is in the home stretch.
I changed Parsee into a god, added kappa, moon rabbits, and giant catfish sprites (turns out KirbyM, did make one), I also updated Kanako and Okuu with their back gear, and added Youmu's ghost half and Kogassa's umbrella.

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #228 on: March 16, 2013, 10:19:07 AM »
Haven't had time to look at it, but I forgot to mention: at least the Prismriver sisters can benefit a lot from having emotes. It's true that not all characters have as strong an association with particular expressions, so an argument can also be made for not giving any character emotes...

EDIT:

Should Yuugi be friends with Marisa? Marisa would visit Former Hell and drink with her from time to time after the events of SA.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:45:25 PM by cuc »
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #229 on: March 16, 2013, 03:30:16 PM »
Of possible note is that Kosuzu doesn't know Mamizou's a tanuki.  From Kosuzu's point of view, Mamizou is this awesome and wise human being that taught Misozu about how to "properly" use the Night Parade Scroll and is able to command tsukuyomis to do her bidding. Likely Kosuzu herself hopes to one day be a Youkaimon master (gotta catch them all!), judging by what she's doing with the books, and thus idealizes Mamizou in that regards.

I guess this can possibly be contrasted to Kyouko and other Myouren youkai, who instead see Mamizou as a wise but also bad ass youkai boss who could be their "trump card" against Miko (and, presumably, humans). Which of course if my interpretation is correct, would mean Kosuzu is hilariously looking up to Mamizou for the opposite reasons (a human that can control youkai) than the youkai do (a youkai that can keep humans in line)

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #230 on: March 16, 2013, 05:39:46 PM »
Hey, it's already a running gag that people look up to Byakuren for the wrong reasons, why not the rest of her group? :V

Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #231 on: March 16, 2013, 08:05:57 PM »
Haven't had time to look at it, but I forgot to mention: at least the Prismriver sisters can benefit a lot from having emotes. It's true that not all characters have as strong an association with particular expressions, so an argument can also be made for not giving any character emotes...

EDIT:

Should Yuugi be friends with Marisa? Marisa would visit Former Hell and drink with her from time to time after the events of SA.
I don't want to hold up the process with this emotes thing, so I'll probably drop it for now, and maybe add in the future. Incidentally, the plan is that there will be another big push for new versions once 14 and 13.5 come out, and are suitably digested. What should their emotions be?
Also, I'll try to add the relationship because I remember something like that, but honestly it's a little hard to add and it is fairly minor.

Of possible note is that Kosuzu doesn't know Mamizou's a tanuki.  From Kosuzu's point of view, Mamizou is this awesome and wise human being that taught Misozu about how to "properly" use the Night Parade Scroll and is able to command tsukuyomis to do her bidding. Likely Kosuzu herself hopes to one day be a Youkaimon master (gotta catch them all!), judging by what she's doing with the books, and thus idealizes Mamizou in that regards.

I guess this can possibly be contrasted to Kyouko and other Myouren youkai, who instead see Mamizou as a wise but also bad ass youkai boss who could be their "trump card" against Miko (and, presumably, humans). Which of course if my interpretation is correct, would mean Kosuzu is hilariously looking up to Mamizou for the opposite reasons (a human that can control youkai) than the youkai do (a youkai that can keep humans in line)
I meant to add a note that Kosuzu doesn't know much/anything about Mamizou, thanks for the reminder.
Should Mamizou have relationships within the Myouren Temple? That would be awkward to fit in.

Hey, it's already a running gag that people look up to Byakuren for the wrong reasons, why not the rest of her group? :V
I gathered this. Note that although everyone who is a part of the Myouren Temple should be worshiping Bishamonten, only Byakuren actually does and everyone else is a disciple of hers. You could argue that makes them worshipers of his by extension but it isn't explicitly stated for a reason.

Eiburine

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #232 on: March 17, 2013, 07:16:10 AM »
Shouldn't The Giant Catfish be classified as Fauna instead of Humanoid? :3

Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #233 on: March 30, 2013, 05:02:07 AM »
Ugh, trying to finish this.
Update
This should be pretty much done. I did my best with the last few descriptions I had to make. The last thing I have to decided is if I should use full sentences (i.e. the SDM) or lists (i.e. Forest Path, Yakumo Household, others).
Other then that I'll be replacing some bad pictures.

Shouldn't The Giant Catfish be classified as Fauna instead of Humanoid? :3
Did that.

Forgot Suika: Carefree and friendly, the Heaviest Drinker in Gensokyou
Also forgot all the locations, filling those in now.
Alright, I think I got all the locations so I just updated the link above.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 05:55:31 AM by Imosa »

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #234 on: March 31, 2013, 10:11:48 AM »
With descriptions being added, there's a lot to comment on. I've been very busy recently, so my feedback may come later.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 12:30:05 PM by cuc »
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Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #235 on: March 31, 2013, 06:46:00 PM »
With descriptions being added, there's a lot to comment on. I've been very busy recently, so my feedback may come later.
I see. I would be greatly appreciated.
I'm busy these days too and don't really have a schedule for completing it but to have something done before the new games come out in summer and I have to redo everything (only a slight exaggeration), would be nice.
My idea was to put the chart onto Danborru when it was done, just like LPs chart is right now. If it's the descriptions are the core of your feedback (and I can see why that might be the case), I think it would be worth while to make a copy of the chart with out the descriptions and post that. In such a state the chart is still an update from LP's outdated one.

Also, I think Iku is supposed to have a relation to Sakuya. It seems like she's the only person in SWR that Iku actually likes. I'm probably going to ignore that though.

Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #236 on: March 31, 2013, 11:14:29 PM »
Is Iku really a servant of the Hinanawi family? I got the impression she was just like, a neighbor. She's familiar with them, but not directly involved, and Tenshi doesn't even seem to know who she is before SWR. Of course, her "rank" is lower so she'd naturally be respectful of a full celestial, but is there anything to indicate that she's actually a servant? Unfortunately she was skipped in SoPM so there isn't much detail about her.

Oh, and you should probably point out that there's some sort of deal between Kanako and Tenma that lets them stay on the mountain in Tengu territory. I'd call it a "Business partnership" but that's just me.

edit: Also, Reimu and Marisa are yellow, which doesn't correspond to any color on the key. Since they're human, they should be dark blue.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 11:25:12 PM by Clarste »

Imosa

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #237 on: April 01, 2013, 12:10:12 AM »
Is Iku really a servant of the Hinanawi family? I got the impression she was just like, a neighbor. She's familiar with them, but not directly involved, and Tenshi doesn't even seem to know who she is before SWR. Of course, her "rank" is lower so she'd naturally be respectful of a full celestial, but is there anything to indicate that she's actually a servant? Unfortunately she was skipped in SoPM so there isn't much detail about her.
According to Iku's relationship with Tenshi on the Touhou wiki, "As part of her duties, Iku files reports to the Hinanawi clan whenever an earthquake is about to occur.".

Oh, and you should probably point out that there's some sort of deal between Kanako and Tenma that lets them stay on the mountain in Tengu territory. I'd call it a "Business partnership" but that's just me.
Is that true? It sounds right but I wasn't aware there were any formal dealings between the Tengu and the Moriya shrine. The two just sort of got used to each other.

edit: Also, Reimu and Marisa are yellow, which doesn't correspond to any color on the key. Since they're human, they should be dark blue.
My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #238 on: April 01, 2013, 12:19:14 AM »
According to Iku's relationship with Tenshi on the Touhou wiki, "As part of her duties, Iku files reports to the Hinanawi clan whenever an earthquake is about to occur.".
Well, close enough I guess. Not a huge deal.

Quote
Is that true? It sounds right but I wasn't aware there were any formal dealings between the Tengu and the Moriya shrine. The two just sort of got used to each other.

Aya's MoF profile says:
Quote
After that, the chief of the tengu, Lord Tenma, entered into secret negotiations with the mountain god.
The details of their discussions were not made public, but it was made known that they had agreed to share the mountain with each other and pursue friendly relations.

So they have a deal of some sort, but we don't know the details. Kanako's newspaper article in SoPM also shows them having a conflict over the specific rights the Tengu are granting to the shrine (specifically, an easement to create a path through tengu territory letting people visit the shrine; reminds me of Property Law).

Edit: Sorry to keep constantly pointing out new things, but there's also a "Former Student" floating underneath Seiga that doesn't point to anything, probably left over from an earlier version. I suppose you should delete it?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 12:49:04 AM by Clarste »

cuc

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #239 on: April 01, 2013, 02:25:07 AM »
According to Iku's relationship with Tenshi on the Touhou wiki, "As part of her duties, Iku files reports to the Hinanawi clan whenever an earthquake is about to occur."
Someone please look up an actual SWR quote on that. And even if true, it may not mean Iku is a servant of the Hinanawi clan, only her job involves dealing with them.

I have a question about the nameless kappa in your chart: are they all based on actual characters from the manga? I don't think a typical kappa should have long and wavy hair. I do seem to recall seeing a kappa who wears glasses. They are much more likely to have boyish short and straight hair.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 02:27:23 AM by cuc »
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