Topic: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition  (Read 73755 times)

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Aya Reiko

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Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« on: December 24, 2012, 04:25:10 am »


Red - Hostile
Green- Friendly
Blue - Familiar with, Neither friend nor foe

Yellow - Master -> Servant/Student/Apprentice/etc.
Cyan - Customer -> Provider

Magenta - Related
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 04:50:47 am by Aya Reiko »

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 04:59:50 am »
The best attempt I've ever seen at a comprehensive Touhou relationship chart was by Lord Phr0zen, some years ago. This one. (Danbooru warning) Its only real fault is that it's outdated.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 05:29:23 am »
Sakuya and Alice are enemies? ???

I didn't know they had anything to do with each other.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 05:39:53 am »
Huh. This looks like a good beginning, but the first thing that jumps out at me is there should be a lot more blue lines from Aya.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 08:58:19 am »
Huh, why's Yukari considered enemy of Eirin? Also the northeast neighborhood seems pretty quiet with its lack of lines leading anywhere ???
EDIT: OK so it seems that it actually means the mayohiga team is hostile to the Eientei crew. Still dunno why ???
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 09:12:31 am »
Sorry for off-topic but, I often saw the same art from the same artist everywhere (OP's relationship chart). Does anyone know who's this person who draws touhou characters? Bad English is bad...

On-topic: Isn't Miko (not Reimu) supposed to be Byakuren's enemy? Also why is Cirno enemy (somewhat) with Daiyousei?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 09:30:48 am by Yomihime »
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2012, 09:32:42 am »
Sorry for off-topic but, I often saw the same art from the same artist everywhere (OP's picture). does anyone know who's this person who draws touhou characters? Bad English is bad...

That would be alphes's art style. You may know them as the one who drew the character portraits and such from the fighting games, among other things. As for these pictures you speak of, alot of the time it's not alphes, but actually just people who are good at copying that style. In the actual OP I don't really know who drew each one :V but that doesn't matter much I guess.

Not knowing alot about alphes myself, I can't really say much else. I would have linked you to the Touhou wiki page or something but it seems to be not working at the moment. (for me, anyways)

Edit: Wiki's back up, here you go: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Alphes
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 10:05:30 am by SirBlueberry »

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2012, 09:32:51 am »
On-topic: Isn't Miko (not Reimu) supposed to be Byakuren's enemy?
In the diagram do you notice the red line that connects Murasa to Futo? That line doesn't indicate Murasa is Futo's enemy but rather it indicates Miko's crew is hostile to Byakuren's crew.

I would have linked you to the Touhou wiki page or something but it seems to be not working at the moment. (for me, anyways)
(Off topic) Same here, but the wiki's down lol
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2012, 09:42:54 am »
Small question here, shouldn't Yuyuko be hostile with Eirin? I thought she flipped out at her in IN...

Edit: My bad, meant Kaguya.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 10:08:58 am by Vael »

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2012, 01:13:28 pm »
Sakuya is the only one who ever buys stuff from Rinnoske? I have yet to finish the relevant material but that's funny. What program was this made in?

I'd suggest adding a legend to the picture, and making the spacing bigger. It'll make it easier to read.
Should the Prisimriver sisters be considered related?
Although the feeling may not be mutual, Kosuzu seems pretty friendly toward Reimu, so maybe make the line gradient from green to blue?
Cirno is an enemy of Daiyousei, but also is fairly indifferent?
Momoji is an enemey of Aya?

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2012, 01:24:53 pm »
I think the Cirno-Daiyousei thing is more of a 'Frienemies' sorta thing. Sometimes they're neutral, other times they aren't.
As seen in GFW, when they come to blows over the fairy war(I assume). And the fluffbooks that show them getting along.
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2012, 01:41:23 pm »
Momoji is an enemey of Aya?
Aya's Double Spoiler quotes imply that they have a mutual distrust for each other (which applies to wolf and crow tengu in general).
As for Futo/Murasa, if you look closely, you'll see that the line does not actually connect their pictures, but rather the blue boxes surrounding them (the Myouren and the Tao crew, of course).
The line between Yukari and Eirin, on the other hand, connects the characters themselves, although I don't know why they're enemies (probably some SSiB/CiLR stuff which i should get around to reading sometime).
Not quite sure what's up with Alice/Sakuya or Suika/Patchouli, probably some fighting game stuff. I'm also a bit confused why the creator decided to make Cirno/Dai's relationship semi-hostile but didn't bother to green Marisa/Alice or Reimu/Yukari, but oh well. There's also Seiga/Miko missing (which could be done in a similar fashion to Eirin/Watatsukis), as well as Patchouli/Koakuma and possibly Kogasa/Yoshika.
Also seems he got lazy with the Moriyas and Prismrivers. :V Poor Kanako got no relations.

Of course, there's no denying that this is a great map, just a few things are off here and there.
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Aya Reiko

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 04:06:19 pm »
Aya's Double Spoiler quotes imply that they have a mutual distrust for each other (which applies to wolf and crow tengu in general).
As for Futo/Murasa, if you look closely, you'll see that the line does not actually connect their pictures, but rather the blue boxes surrounding them (the Myouren and the Tao crew, of course).
The line between Yukari and Eirin, on the other hand, connects the characters themselves, although I don't know why they're enemies (probably some SSiB/CiLR stuff which i should get around to reading sometime).
From the wiki, Yukari's entry:
Unknown to each other, Eirin and Yukari's own history actually goes back farther than that. As mentioned by Watatsuki no Toyohime at the end of chapter 17 of Silent Sinner in Blue, one thousand years ago Eirin set up a trap to catch someone who'd try to invade the moon. Yukari was well aware of the trap, apparently having already triggered it before (assuming her "make-believe" story in Cage in Lunatic Runagate actually happened). She seems to bear a grudge against the Lunarian sage (Eirin) that set it, referring to her as "the much-despised Lunarian sage".
 
However, Yukari hasn't realized who Eirin is. Neither of them make special note of each other in Imperishable Night and are amicable with each other in the ending. Near the end of Silent Sinner in Blue, Yukari remarks to Ran Yakumo that she's unsure if "the Brain of the Moon" had actually settled on earth. Yukari suspects Eirin is a spy for the Moon.
 
The final chapter of Cage in Lunatic Runagate reveals that Yukari orchestrated the events primarily to teach Eirin to fear the unknown, likely because those who live as humans in Gensokyo are supposed to fear the youkai (as stated in Yukari's lecture to Ran earlier about the aliens).

 
In short, the two are probably antagonistic to one another.  Unknown if they still are.

Quote
Not quite sure what's up with Alice/Sakuya or Suika/Patchouli, probably some fighting game stuff.
Alice-Sakuya -- Sakuya is ususally hostile towards Alice in both fighting games, especially when compared to her treatment of Marisa and Youmu.
Patchy-Suika -- Note the arrow, only Patchy is Hostile towards Suika.  Suika doesn't care about Patchy, but Patchy seems to be going out of her way to target Suika, bypassing Tenshi in SWR.

Quote
I'm also a bit confused why the creator decided to make Cirno/Dai's relationship semi-hostile but didn't bother to green Marisa/Alice or Reimu/Yukari, but oh well.
Cirno-Dai (and Cirno-3 Fairies) can be summed up as this, it's fairy logic;  The can be friends one day, at "war" the next, and then back to friends.
Nothing in official works really suggest Reimu-Yukari and Marisa-Alice are anything beyond being familiar/merely tolerant of one another.

Quote
There's also Seiga/Miko missing (which could be done in a similar fashion to Eirin/Watatsukis),
Probably, Seiga is the one who taught Miko Taoism.  But nothing beyond that.
Quote
as well as Patchouli/Koakuma and possibly Kogasa/Yoshika.
Nothing in offical works indicate any relationship between either pairing.

Quote
Also seems he got lazy with the Moriyas and Prismrivers. :V Poor Kanako got no relations.
I should've explained the color of boxes also indicates what kind of relations for all within in.  The blue box (i.e. SDM) means everyone in it is familiar with one another.  The green box (i.e. 3 fairies) means everyone is at least on a level of friends with one another.  The magenta box (Prismrivers) means everyone in it is related.
Quote
Of course, there's no denying that this is a great map, just a few things are off here and there.
It is a prototype.  It stills has a few bugs in the system.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2012, 02:26:06 am »
*snip*
guess I've been thoroughly debunked, haha. keep up the good work.
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DeltaSierra4

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2012, 05:49:44 am »
From the wiki, Yukari's entry:
Unknown to each other, Eirin and Yukari's own history actually goes back farther than that. As mentioned by Watatsuki no Toyohime at the end of chapter 17 of Silent Sinner in Blue, one thousand years ago Eirin set up a trap to catch someone who'd try to invade the moon. Yukari was well aware of the trap, apparently having already triggered it before (assuming her "make-believe" story in Cage in Lunatic Runagate actually happened). She seems to bear a grudge against the Lunarian sage (Eirin) that set it, referring to her as "the much-despised Lunarian sage".
 
However, Yukari hasn't realized who Eirin is. Neither of them make special note of each other in Imperishable Night and are amicable with each other in the ending. Near the end of Silent Sinner in Blue, Yukari remarks to Ran Yakumo that she's unsure if "the Brain of the Moon" had actually settled on earth. Yukari suspects Eirin is a spy for the Moon.
 
The final chapter of Cage in Lunatic Runagate reveals that Yukari orchestrated the events primarily to teach Eirin to fear the unknown, likely because those who live as humans in Gensokyo are supposed to fear the youkai (as stated in Yukari's lecture to Ran earlier about the aliens).

 
In short, the two are probably antagonistic to one another.  Unknown if they still are.

lol now why did I forget about SSiB? I think I see where the antagonism comes from now. Thx for the explanation :D

On a sidenote, I rarely see much Yukari-Eirin pairings as hostile pairings (or maybe I'm not looking hard enough). All I see is them getting lumped up with Kanako or sometimes Yuyuko as the 'old hag' meme :derp:
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2012, 06:06:58 am »
I should've explained the color of boxes also indicates what kind of relations for all within in.  The blue box (i.e. SDM) means everyone in it is familiar with one another.  The green box (i.e. 3 fairies) means everyone is at least on a level of friends with one another.  The magenta box (Prismrivers) means everyone in it is related.It is a prototype.  It stills has a few bugs in the system.
Yeah, that would be really helpful. I'll say again, make it bigger. It would help. Also still curious how you're making this.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2012, 08:54:38 am »
Why is Reimu and Sanae green? And yet, Marisa and Rinnosuke or Reimu and Rinnosuke not green?
Wriggle, Rumia and Mystia should all be blue, they at least know each other. At least I think it was them chasing/being chased by Youmu.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2012, 10:57:12 am »
Why is Reimu and Sanae green? And yet, Marisa and Rinnosuke or Reimu and Rinnosuke not green?
Wriggle, Rumia and Mystia should all be blue, they at least know each other. At least I think it was them chasing/being chased by Youmu.
I think the relationship chart was based on only canon information. I don't think there's an official canon relationshipping between Rumia and either Wriggle or Mystia. If the chart also incorporated fanon relationshipping, then it would probably look more complicated than the Japanese subway map :V
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2012, 01:03:35 pm »
Why would patchouli hate Suika? The only times they met were the fighters and she was never too hostile towards her.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:07:18 pm by Kogasa Tatara »
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2012, 01:22:43 pm »
Shouldn't there be lines for Kasen/Suika and Koishi/Byakuren?

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2012, 03:46:08 pm »
Why would patchouli hate Suika? The only times they met were the fighters and she was never too hostile towards her.
Yes, she was; in SWR she ignored Tenshi and went straight to Suika, thinking she started the whole incident. She also hosts the Setsubun in the SDM, which started only after Suika appeared IIRC, and both Patch's and Suika's article in the BRiJR imply that the festival and Suika breaking the moon were to show off against each other. Patch in general seems to have a strong dislike for onis, IIRC.
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2012, 08:56:55 pm »
While it's by no mean official, I am partial to that small chart
By the way it say something like "Leader of the place = Big sister, EX Boss = Little sister". Followed by the appropriate freak out. X D

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2012, 09:41:21 pm »
Sakuya notes in her own IAMP ending that Patchouli always ordered roasted soy beans for her coffee even before the events of IAMP. This implies that for whatever reason, Patchy has subconsciously/instinctually hated (or maybe feared) oni for a long time.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 09:43:31 pm by Tiamat »

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2012, 11:36:24 pm »
Spotted a couple of things missing:

No yellow line between Koa and Patch, Koakuma is Patchouli's familiar, I think it's Grimore of Marisa that confirms it, if EoSD Stage 4 didn't make it obvious. Might be somewhere else that confirms it, but it's fairly soild.

Kogasa should be bunched with the Myouren crew really. Even if she was not related with them in UFO, by TD she's living in the graveyard of the temple. There is also no Kogasa-Yoshika line, despite the two fighting in TD. Failing that, seeing as Reimu/Sanae/Marisa beat her up on sight, even when she asks them for help, they have an antagonistic relationship.

Also Kogasa/Human Village seem to be on alright terms, since human children like her, as stated in the recent thingy I forgot the name of.


Things which are more subjectives and based on points of view:

Probably safe to assume Suwako knows Hina, in fact, since Hina is a Curse Goddess and Suwako can control them...

Seiga/Kasen seem on good terms, if Kasen is wondering what's so wicked about her.

Kanako-Sanae seems master-servant

Nue's not really under Byakuren's control, at least, from what I understand. Mamizou certainly isn't, she's only linked to Myouren because of Nue.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 11:40:17 pm by Raikaria »


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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2012, 02:16:32 am »
Quote
I think the relationship chart was based on only canon information. I don't think there's an official canon relationshipping between Rumia and either Wriggle or Mystia. If the chart also incorporated fanon relationshipping, then it would probably look more complicated than the Japanese subway map

What I mean is that there is no canon information that Reimu and Sanae's are friends. All we really know is that Sanae visits Reimu's shrine. But then Remilia also visits Reimu's shrine often and Reimu also visits the Scarlet Devil mansion in canon, yet no green line between those two. Or how there is no green or yellow line between Yukari and Reimu, when we know Yukari has been Reimu's partner in one of the games and her trainer in one of the books.

There may not be any official relationship between Rumia, Wriggle or Mystia, but they were together when they tried to scare Youmu in the 3 Fairies' manga. So, they should know each other. Image of Team 9. Not really a team, but whatever. Team 9 chasing/being chased.
There are strong indications that these youkai know each other.

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2012, 04:27:08 am »
OMG Yuyuko is Shiki's servant, Shiki rules  :derp:

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2012, 04:43:18 am »
What I mean is that there is no canon information that Reimu and Sanae's are friends. All we really know is that Sanae visits Reimu's shrine. But then Remilia also visits Reimu's shrine often and Reimu also visits the Scarlet Devil mansion in canon, yet no green line between those two. Or how there is no green or yellow line between Yukari and Reimu, when we know Yukari has been Reimu's partner in one of the games and her trainer in one of the books.

There may not be any official relationship between Rumia, Wriggle or Mystia, but they were together when they tried to scare Youmu in the 3 Fairies' manga. So, they should know each other. Image of Team 9. Not really a team, but whatever. Team 9 chasing/being chased.
There are strong indications that these youkai know each other.
Simply being familiar with each other doesn't really guarantee blue lines.  If that was the case, then certain characters like Kogasa, Kisume, Parsee, etc. should all have blue lines connecting them to people like Reimu and Marisa, since the latter two are obviously familiar with them.

I think it's more of how well they know each other that determines whether or not they deserve blue lines.  Wriggle, Mystia, and Rumia may have been seen together, but what is to say that it's simply a coincidence that they happen to be in the same place at the same time, or that they decided to do something together because they find it fun or happen to have the same idea?  Other than the manga pages you've shown, they probably don't hang out with each other at all and know very little about each other, so blue lines aren't sufficient enough for them.
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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2012, 08:59:12 am »
I understand the need for simplicity, but I think one more color would do the job for more minor relations and such, like characters who ran afoul of each other once or twice and had a beef, but couldn't be called Red/Hostile or Blue/Familiar. Like Kogasa/Yoshika, Rinnosuke/Tokiko, Reimu/Tokiko or Rinnosuke/Youmu (or would that last work under Customer?), the Rumia/Wriggle/Mystia thing, and the like.

Other considerations.

A link between Eirin and Medicine.

I second a change from Blue to Green for Rinnosuke to Reimu and Marisa.

I'd also change Kosuzu and Akyuu to Green. There should also be a line from Akyuu to Reimu.

Utsuho and Nitori should be linked with the Moriyas.

Move Seiga / Yoshika over by Miko since Seiga is Miko's teacher, as already said. Though I wouldn't include her in Miko's group.

I also second moving Kogasa by the Myouren Temple group, if not including her outright. By TD and SoPm she's living on their grounds, others affiliate her with them, she's seen together with Mamizou and Kyouko, and Byakuren doesn't deny it in any way.

Overall, the work is appreciated, although I don't think it can be done much better than Lord Phr0zen's. I understand it's in the early stages, but I might consider taking more cues from him, if not just picking up right where he left off.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 09:08:53 am by UTW »

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Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2012, 11:05:47 am »
Huh. This looks like a good beginning, but the first thing that jumps out at me is there should be a lot more blue lines from Aya.
Or Red ones. Aya is not well-liked.
Re: Touhou Relationship chart, New Edition
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2012, 04:10:11 pm »
Aya probably need a blanket statement under her or something saying "Disliked by most people."  Since the chart would be FILLED with lines, otherwise. As it is, she's disliked by so many people that her being disliked by someone is more akin to "a natural occurence" than an actual relationship.

Likewise, Reimu would likely need a blanket statement too, since she's met EVERY character in the series (in the present day, not the "near future"). That said, she's been depicted with some characters liking her more than others. Remilia and Yukari are shown at the shrine a lot more often in various official works than others, and Yukari further has mentored Reimu both secretly and openly on several occassions. The three fairies were also officially designated Reimu's friends in the finale to their series (and judging by their cameo as hanging around the shrine in Wild and Horned Hermit as well as their background appearance in Hopeless Masquerade, this seems implied to have stuck, although it's not 100% sure). Also, Meiling seems to hold a grudge against her or something jjudging by her Hisoutensoku win quote. For the most part, Perfect Memento's statement about her being liked by strong youkai but disliked by weak ones seems to be true, although the three fairies are an exception if that's the case.

Marisa may need a blanket statement in that regards too, really. She's been stated several times to still drop by the SDM or the Underground to hang out with people (kinda like Reimu's relationships in reverse)
 

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