Author Topic: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?  (Read 65423 times)

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2012, 02:06:38 AM »
I think that people say these things for the lulz, I laugh when I see someone saying things like the Satori's small arms or that he draws poorly to let the fans make some good fan-arts. In my opinion he don't draw badly, it's his style of drawing, something more simple and I love the little details that he made in the character design like the snake at the Sanae's hair or the key at Nitori's chest. Also when you beat the bosses they appear with some part of the  clothes torn or with that big tear at the eyes it's pretty comic.

Two things that this thread made me remember is that surprise expression that Marisa does at IN, she looks like a rabbit, I always smile when I see this pic, and for me Remilia's hands is strange, it looks that it is broken and trying to imitate the pose is painful :P




PS:  ROFL at Miko's rights hands
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AnonymousPondScum

Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2012, 02:10:40 AM »
Remilia's displaying, like, the opposite of jazz hands there. :V

Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2012, 02:12:37 AM »
That's pretty much her signature pose. It makes me chuckle every time I see it and I just CAN'T resist mimicking it.

pineyappled

Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2012, 02:50:16 AM »
In my opinion he don't draw badly, it's his style of drawing, something more simple and I love the little details that he made in the character design like the snake at the Sanae's hair or the key at Nitori's chest. Also when you beat the bosses they appear with some part of the  clothes torn or with that big tear at the eyes it's pretty comic.
No, he's a bad artist. His anatomy, hands, and faces are generally fucked up beyond comprehension, and everyone is Chubbycheeks Sausagelimbs. These kinds of things aren't style; they're outright bad art. Character design has little to do with actual art skill.
That said, his drawings are adorable as fuck. Youmu's TD cut-in is just the cutest thing.

Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2012, 02:56:47 AM »
More or less related, anyone else niticed hiw random his character designs are? Marisa's random wand just pops in like an unwanted child, and reappears and disappears randomly. The hell, ZUN?!

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2012, 02:58:41 AM »
It also looks a bit like the Cane of Somaria from Zelda. :V

Mootsies

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2012, 04:12:11 AM »
More or less related, anyone else niticed hiw random his character designs are? Marisa's random wand just pops in like an unwanted child, and reappears and disappears randomly. The hell, ZUN?!
Just like reimu's exorcising stick (gohei) got a hell of random length every single game people will think she stole it from goku  :V
Oh, and ZUN's tendency to change hair and eye colours too.

Accomplishment? Let's see :
EoSD normal 1cc (Marisa A). PCB normal 1cc (Sakuya A), EX clear. IN normal 1cc (Border Team), EX clear. MoF normal 1cc (Reimu A,B), EX clear (Reimu A). UFO normal 1cc (Reimu B). TD normal 1cc (Reimu and Marisa)

Darth_Sirov

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2012, 04:44:02 AM »
Reading about this greatly reminds me of an excerpt from Cracked.com:

as stated:

He produces a series of games called 'Touhou Project'. He does all the coding, art, music, and design work by himself. You may be wondering how one man can single handily pull all of this off without a hitch. The answer to that is simple: The official character art sucks.

and the picture to add to the joke was the MoF Reimu (the infamous Zombie/Jaundice pic)

Though as mentioned, he's improving quite nicely, better than most people.

danyun

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2012, 04:59:34 AM »
I actually like Zun's art and always have, ever since I first played Touhou. I didn't really care how it compared to other game art, I genuinely thought it was cool. Especially Sakuya.
Am I weird?  :V
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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2012, 05:26:29 AM »
I like ZUNart, with a few exceptions (mostly the recent stuff, actually). I think it's got charm and fits the game's atmosphere, especially in IN. It's good art in that it is aesthetically pleasing, but it's not particularly skilled.
The expressions are wonderful, though. Also, that hinaface is adorable.

I also think IaMP/SWR artwork is lovely (Yukari's weird hair in her defeat portrait aside). Half of the appreciation comes from how it actually makes the characters look the ages I imagine them to be, for the most part- young Reimu and Marisa, Sakuya being youngish but more mature looking due to her countenance, mature Yuyuko and Yukari, etc. The other half is that it just looks really great, fits the atmosphere of the game, and lends weight to the dialogue for the most part.

Kaze_Senshi

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2012, 08:37:00 AM »
No, he's a bad artist. His anatomy, hands, and faces are generally fucked up beyond comprehension, and everyone is Chubbycheeks Sausagelimbs. These kinds of things aren't style; they're outright bad art. Character design has little to do with actual art skill.
That said, his drawings are adorable as fuck. Youmu's TD cut-in is just the cutest thing.

There are a lot of projects that the characters are pretty deformed like "The simpsons". The deformed faces can be his style, for me there are some problems that could be resolved if someone could "review" the art for him to let it more consistent, like Miko's hand (lol)

Also someone noticed when Flandre appears on the extra Stage and starts to talk, her standing frame animation's right leg stays trembling? :P

I also think IaMP/SWR artwork is lovely (Yukari's weird hair in her defeat portrait aside).

Did ZUN draw something at the fighting series? I thought that other guys helped him at these games.



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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2012, 10:28:09 AM »
Did ZUN draw something at the fighting series? I thought that other guys helped him at these games.

As far as I know, all the character portraits for the fighting games were done by other people. That quote was meant to be seperate from the ZUNart bit, responding to this sentiment:
Touhou just isn't the same without aderpable ZUNart. The fighting game and GFW art just rub me the wrong way.
and the fighting game art isn't good get a pair of eyes people ;_;
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 10:30:58 AM by haoreos2 »

Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2012, 11:02:00 AM »
I thought it was almost-universal fact that ZUN is not a very good artist.
I finds his portraits strange, but at least I enjoy his background and danmaku art.

Swiftwater

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2012, 11:29:43 AM »
As far as I know, all the character portraits for the fighting games were done by other people. That quote was meant to be seperate from the ZUNart bit, responding to this sentiment:

People? Maybe alphes.

game2011

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2012, 04:48:02 PM »
I thought it was almost-universal fact that ZUN is not a very good artist.
I finds his portraits strange, but at least I enjoy his background and danmaku art.
Things like these have no facts, only opinions.

Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2012, 07:23:15 PM »
Things like these have no facts, only opinions.

As mentioned many times, it's universally accepted that his art is bad in comparison to the rest of what he does.

Saying you like his art is one thing, (a good number of people does) but nobody will go as far as saying ''ZUN's draws much better than he composes music!''

BL2W

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2012, 07:40:15 PM »
Saying you like his art is one thing, (a good number of people does) but nobody will go as far as saying ''ZUN's draws much better than he composes music!''

Unless someone who happens to hate Touhou for whatever reason is out to get a reaction out of fans...

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Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2012, 07:47:29 PM »
Unless someone who happens to hate Touhou for whatever reason is out to get a reaction out of fans...

Trolling level: Strong.

Even better: ZUN's art is the only good thing in Touhou. (Liiiie)

Alfred F. Jones

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #78 on: September 20, 2012, 08:07:00 PM »
ZUN's art is okay, but the fighting games' art is fantastic. There's a very good reason that the fanbase was waiting anxiously to see the new portraits in the lead-up to SWR full release.

Though, I would also love to see Iku, Tenshi, and Suika in danmaku games with the art he's made for them. His eye for design has only improved over the years.

Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #79 on: September 20, 2012, 08:17:19 PM »
Though, I would also love to see Iku, Tenshi, and Suika in danmaku games with the art he's made for them. His eye for design has only improved over the years.

W-wow... they're really good... Who knew?

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #80 on: September 20, 2012, 08:19:57 PM »
Yeah, it's funny, his pencil/traditional media doodles seem to be really solid while his actual in-game artwork looks derpy. I dun get it either. :V

BL2W

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #81 on: September 20, 2012, 08:27:23 PM »
W-wow... they're really good... Who knew?

Er... I don't know about you, but they look just about exactly the same as his usual work to me. Solid, considering his common style, but not anything where I'm suddenly going to say, "Wow~! It's so different~!"

(Although, personally, I do think his Iku certainly looks the best of the three.)

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Ikari

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2012, 08:34:53 PM »
Er... I don't know about you, but they look just about exactly the same as his usual work to me. Solid, considering his common style, but not anything where I'm suddenly going to say, "Wow~! It's so different~!"

(Although, personally, I do think his Iku certainly looks the best of the three.)

Well, Suika looks the same, but I dunno... I feel like Iku and Tenshi look better. Especially the hands, they look like real human hands.

And I just noticed how Tenshi's hat is ridiculous in the sketch :V

TheRadicalX

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2012, 09:29:28 PM »
ZUN is a bad illustrative artist. This is... pretty much objective fact. He has no grasp of anatomy or value, and it especially shows with his flesh tones - he can sometimes achieve a decent skin colour, but the shading makes it look washed out and anaemic. His clothing if you look at it for any length of time lacks any real sense of three dimensions - it's like a paper cutout he pasted over the character's body. A lot of his mistakes could really quite easily be fixed just by doing frequent life studies - but then, this is true for every artist ever, no matter what your skill level. You can and will improve if you do studies. Natural talent is a minor factor and a distraction, art is about the work.

On the other hand, his bad art does have a charm to it, partly for humor and partly because it's become intrinsically tied to the aesthetic of the series. Furthermore, expecting the dude to put in the long hours it takes to do all the studies he'd need to do when he already has to balance all of the other skills he needs to make his games is unreasonable, especially when his art occupies that special spot of "so bad it's good," or maybe more accurately "pleasantly familiar."

But I'm still not going to claim his style isn't a symbol-set crutch or that he isn't a bad illustrator, because he's a really, really bad illustrator.
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BL2W

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2012, 09:37:08 PM »
^^Quite accurately everything that I believe about ZUN's artwork to a tee. Way to go, man~ *brofist*

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TheRadicalX

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2012, 10:00:51 PM »
I guess I should add that while I think the dude's a bad illustrator, I also think he's a fairly-to-very skilled character designer, depending on the character in question. Shou, Miko, Byakuren, Yukari's IN outfit, etc. are all really, really cool designs, even despite his artistic handicaps.
Today I pulled three baby snakes out of moss and dirt where the wild strawberry vines toss and turn. I told them "you will grow to be something inventive and electric, you are healthy, you are special, you are present."

Then I let them go.

...Oh...

Goldom

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2012, 10:12:35 PM »
He has no grasp of anatomy or value,

What do you mean by "value" there?

BL2W

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2012, 10:39:04 PM »
I guess I should add that while I think the dude's a bad illustrator, I also think he's a fairly-to-very skilled character designer, depending on the character in question.

I completely agree; granted, I do find a few of his designs to be a bit clunky every so often, but then again, nobody's perfect, right? For example, although I'm well-aware that there are quite a few people on this forum who really, really love Utsuho, I would suggest that, while her overall design has plenty of worthwhile inspiration to it, I'm not the biggest fan of her schoolgirl motif or the unexplainable control rod attached to her arm that virtually came from out of thin air in canon, especially considering that her best friend, Rin, has a much more appropriate color scheme and style of dress for the area in which they live, in my honest opinion~

What do you mean by "value" there?

I believe that he's referring to color luminosity, such as with the gradual changes from light to dark and vice versa~
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 10:44:34 PM by BL2W »

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Kaze_Senshi

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2012, 10:40:16 PM »
he can sometimes achieve a decent skin colour, but the shading makes it look washed out and anaemic.

So the character that he can draw better is Patchoulli :P
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Tengukami

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Re: Are people exaggerating ZUN's drawings?
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2012, 10:42:23 PM »


I think this is a fair point. Illustrations can cover all kinds of styles, though, not just realism with regards to proportion, values and skin tones. I'm sure the style is due in part, as you say, to not have the time to put into character art, but I think it's never been his intention to draw realistically. You can definitely see some major screw-ups in intent in the early Windows games, but I think these have for the most part smoothed out over time to a preferred style, aesthetically speaking, not just in regards to his time frame. The charm, for me, is less about the comedic value and more about ZUN's chosen style of illustration. The familiarity you bring up is also naturally a part of this.

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