Author Topic: Am I the only one who prefers...?  (Read 24055 times)

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2012, 01:12:43 AM »
I can tell it's a discussion about character interpretation. It's just that one moment the argument is FANON BAD FANON MAKE KAGUYA INTO DUMB NEET MOEBLOB and the next minute it's all NAZI EIRIN IS CANON EIRIN when I thought it was the memes that portrayed her that way and her canon self was benevolent if grouchy but not afraid to tell the rest of the Lunarians to go jump in a lake.

So what I'm saying here is either MM's being a bit inconsistent or else I missed something.

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2012, 01:40:58 AM »
I can tell it's a discussion about character interpretation. It's just that one moment the argument is FANON BAD FANON MAKE KAGUYA INTO DUMB NEET MOEBLOB and the next minute it's all NAZI EIRIN IS CANON EIRIN when I thought it was the memes that portrayed her that way and her canon self was benevolent if grouchy but not afraid to tell the rest of the Lunarians to go jump in a lake.

So what I'm saying here is either MM's being a bit inconsistent or else I missed something.

Woah, me? You're probably missing something, or reading someone's posts as my own. I'm not talking about fanon at all... nor neet or nazi stuff.

If you mean the part where I said that Eirin is sadistic, I meant in that particullar comic.

Would you please tell me what ZUN said and all? I missed that, and I'm a fan of Tenshi as well so I'm interested  :D

He said:

"Well, simply put, they were left out (of SoPM) because they have nothing to do with Kanako, Hijiri or Miko, but Tenshi has a pretty good personality, doesn't she? In the end, the game was all about everyone bullying her.  She reminds me of Cirno in that sense. The number of characters at that level of intelligence has increased, hasn't it. That kind of character is easier to come up with, compared to timid characters, which tend to be harder. In the end, in a game, Reimu is just going to force her way past and defeat them anyway, though."

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2012, 01:55:05 AM »
Woah, me? You're probably missing something, or reading someone's posts as my own. I'm not talking about fanon at all... nor neet or nazi stuff.

If you mean the part where I said that Eirin is sadistic, I meant in that particullar comic.

Oooooooh, okay. I figured I was doing something dumb. :getdown: Sorry for putting you on the spot!

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2012, 02:00:14 AM »
A discussion about character interpretation. Touhou is probably the game with the most of those. No one sees the same character the same way, I guess.

*Personally likes moeblob Kaguya and Nazi Eirin*

The hell is a Nazi Eirin?

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2012, 02:03:44 AM »
The hell is a Nazi Eirin?

An Eirin that does mean and ethically questionable experiments on living creatures for science lulz.

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2012, 02:11:27 AM »
Personally, I don't think Eirin does cruel experiments, if only because has no reason to do experiments anymore. She's already done. Her whole gimmick is that she knows stuff, so why does she need to learn more stuff? ...On the other hand, I believe it is canon that she drugs the rabbits, to make them more obedient or quieter or something. Not an experimental drug, but a known drug. So in that sense she's not very nice. Surely she's smart enough to take good care of her tools though?

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2012, 02:16:54 AM »
Personally, I don't think Eirin does cruel experiments, if only because has no reason to do experiments anymore. She's already done. Her whole gimmick is that she knows stuff, so why does she need to learn more stuff? ...On the other hand, I believe it is canon that she drugs the rabbits, to make them more obedient or quieter or something. Not an experimental drug, but a known drug. So in that sense she's not very nice. Surely she's smart enough to take good care of her tools though?

Yeah. She even charges reasonable prices for the meds she makes. (Also, the idea of Eirin making Ritalin for the Earth rabbits makes me giggle far more than it should.)

Didn't she leave the moon because she didn't agree with something the Lunarians wanted her to do or is my brain scrambled again?

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2012, 02:21:53 AM »
Yeah. She even charges reasonable prices for the meds she makes. (Also, the idea of Eirin making Ritalin for the Earth rabbits makes me giggle far more than it should.)

Didn't she leave the moon because she didn't agree with something the Lunarians wanted her to do or is my brain scrambled again?

As far as I know, she left because she felt guilty about not being punished for making the elixir that Kaguya drank. So she only left the moon because Kaguya felt like leaving the moon and Eirin loyally followed. She has no grudge against or disagreement with the Lunarians at all.

AnonymousPondScum

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2012, 03:47:47 AM »
As far as I know, she left because she felt guilty about not being punished for making the elixir that Kaguya drank. So she only left the moon because Kaguya felt like leaving the moon and Eirin loyally followed. She has no grudge against or disagreement with the Lunarians at all.

Ahhhhhh, okay.

I was gonna say, Eirin leaving the moon because the rest of the Lunarians skeeved her out seemed a bit grim for canon Touhou to me. :V

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2012, 09:51:16 AM »
Quote
Already addressed.  Btw, I thought everyone already took her immortality for granted.

Untrue, there are others that do not think she is immortal.
The banter at the end of ghost team's ending only says that Eirin could have been immortal, since you know, they were bantering. There have been many bantering dialogues and a lot of it is trash talking. Look at Yuyuko's dialogue with Yukari in IaMP, they were talking about poisoning everyone, which I am pretty sure is not true. Or the dialogue where Remilia mentioning how Reimu killed Sakuya, which we know is false.

What we do know is Eirin says that the drink Yuyuko gave her won't affect her.

Quote
A single "impure" bullet from Reimu's Omagatsumi could ruin the moon ("let it go, and you'll bring death to the Moon", "if you don't smash the bullets one by one, the moon will become the same as earth"). If Toyohime could just "cleanse" such impurity, why would she go to the length of threatening Reimu's life to stop it (which, would also "taint" the Moon, I presume)?

You should know that Yorihime countered Reimu's skill, using her own shrine maiden summon. What Reimu was throwing out is pure impurity, it is not something that is so easily cleansed. However, we know for a fact that it can be cleansed, as seen in that very comic.
Yorihime threatening Reimu's life is probably because of some other reason. Reimu's spell was cleared successfully by Yorihime already.

Quote
Huh?
She clearly couldn't stretch nor do push ups. I don't know how being "psycologycally lazy" would stop her from doing those.

This is false. On the very same page, she can do a full bend, this is only possible for people with lots of training. Refer to this and look at the whole page, not just part of it: http://mangafox.me/manga/inaba_of_the_moon_inaba_of_the_earth/c008/6.html
Hence, I call it psychologically lazy, because she can in fact do this.

Quote
Even if Mokou wasn't blowing her up lately, the "create another body wherever they like" covers my reasoning.

Only after the body goes away. Which it has not. The soul recreates the body when the body is destroyed. I thought if you look at the Mokou scenario, you would have seen that Mokou was clearly suffering from the effects of the battle.

Quote
Quite the wildcard argument you pulled there.

It may be a wildcard argument, but it is not illogical. We know that there are people who have ideas of all sorts of weapons and many of them never see the light of day. Gensokyo is a place where fantasy creations appear. It is not too much of leap in logic to think of cool creations such as a shotgun umbrella, which never saw the light of day in the real world.
A more concrete example is in Hisoutensoku, where Suwako created Hisoutensoku. It is a creation only possible in a fantasy setting.
Similarly, there is cold fusion...

Quote
You're implying that Eirin is taking revenge for the rabbits, the ones that she doesn't care and even experiments on?

No I am not talking about Eirin at all. I am talking about Reisen abusing powers that she does not have. This is why Reisen deserves the pranks that Tewi plays on her. She has no authority to order Tewi around, but she does, and Tewi being the better rabbit, allows her to do it sometimes.

Quote
Anyway, you're just giving more examples of discrepancies, since Reisen is the only one that treat the rabbits well in Inaba. Talking about rabbits, aren't they supposed to be "little girls"? Shape changing isn't out of question since they're youkai, but still, you'd expect them to protest when being painted and sold, played around like balls, used as futon-warmer, used as fish bait, used as Mokou-bait, or being freaking kidnapped by Toyohime.

Reisen is not the only one who treats the rabbits well, she actually does not treat them well. She considers them her subordinates when they are not.

The rabbits can change shape. They could be little girls or little rabbits. You see both versions in various mangas.

There is a difference between Tewi treating the rabbits and Reisen. Tewi is their boss and have known them for a long time. Reisen is not, she is an outsider. Tewi is closer to family with the rabbits.

Kaguya and Eirin are different from Reisen, they respect Tewi's authority. This is also why they are able to "mistreat" the rabbits, as you put it.
The difference here is, respect. You don't see Reisen considering Tewi or the rabbits her equal. However, this is not the same case for Kaguya and Eirin.
As already mentioned, the only reason why the rabbits listen to Kaguya or Eirin is because Tewi allows it. It is a mutual agreement, one which Reisen somehow missed.

Which Tewi prevented Toyohime from doing. Toyohime is a fairly dangerous person, so prevention is the better idea.

Quote
Actually, Mokou moved on, but Kaguya is still on it, apparently going herself as well (Always trying to kill me... Always sending assassins... She KNOWS that I'll never die!).

That's the thing though. Prior to the comics, we don't know what kind of assassins Kaguya sends to Mokou. Now, if we consider what kind of minions Kaguya does have, the only assassins she can possibly send are, Reisen or the rabbits. Neither of them are much of a threat.
What Kaguya does like to do and this is reflected in the Inabas manga is that she still likes to troll Mokou.
I don't really see any contradiction from Imperishable Night and this. I mean sure, there are darker interpretations of this, but this interpretation makes the most sense, considering what minions Kaguya has access to.


Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2012, 12:17:29 PM »
This thread has roughly 4.7 times as many off-topic posts as on-topic ones. That is, 55 posts vs 15.

Therefore, non sequitur mode activated.

I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2012, 02:13:48 PM »
Oh look, secondaries are still claiming Eirin is a goddess. Some things never change. :smug:

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2012, 04:47:29 PM »
Honestly, I don't think it really matters whether Eirin's a goddess or not. Either way, she's really old, knows a lot of stuff, and likes to drug rabbits. It's like... Hina. She was claimed to be a goddess from her first introduction, but Akyuu says that she's technically not because she lives on curses instead of faith. So she's not actually a goddess, and nothing like any of the other goddesses we know, but I doubt that's going to stop anyone from thinking of her as a goddess.

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2012, 11:29:00 PM »
This thread has roughly 4.7 times as many off-topic posts as on-topic ones. That is, 55 posts vs 15.

Therefore, non sequitur mode activated.

I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.

I agree with you, though I preferred SA graphics, which were pretty much like an upgraded MoF. And for some random reason, it went downhill with UFO, in my opinion at least. EoSD would be awesome with better bullets and glow effects and stuff.

On a side note, I'm sorry your post got ignored and that the off topic Eirin debate continued. I support you!  :3

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2012, 07:16:53 AM »
I agree with you, though I preferred SA graphics, which were pretty much like an upgraded MoF. And for some random reason, it went downhill with UFO, in my opinion at least. EoSD would be awesome with better bullets and glow effects and stuff.
On a side note, I'm sorry your post got ignored and that the off topic Eirin debate continued. I support you!  :3

Gotta agree with that, UFO didn't seem quite as atmospheric as Mof or SA.
On a side note, why thankee kind sir.

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2012, 07:36:49 AM »
Gotta agree with that, UFO didn't seem quite as atmospheric as Mof or SA.
On a side note, why thankee kind sir.

MoF = Beautiful atmosphere. Really shows how nice Youkai Mountain looks at fall (CMIIW)
SA    = I don't remember it being that atmospheric except for Stage 5, and that's mostly comes from the music.
UFO = In the early stages it's not that atmospheric but when it reaches Makai it's just awesome.

So, MoF > UFO > SA.

Oh look, secondaries are still claiming Eirin is a goddess. Some things never change. :smug:

I agree with Eirin not being a goddess but why does the wiki say that ZUN refers to her as a god?

I wish the wiki would be more clear in stuff like this. If a consensus can't be reached, then just say that we don't know whether Eirin's a god or not.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 11:19:14 AM by lightdreamer »

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2012, 01:08:27 PM »
I agree with Eirin not being a goddess but why does the wiki say that ZUN refers to her as a god?

I wish the wiki would be more clear in stuff like this. If a consensus can't be reached, then just say that we don't know whether Eirin's a god or not.
In the interview at the end of SOPM, ZUN is talking about how the moon is home to the higher type of god, who don't get along with the native gods of Earth. He then says that Eirin is "one of them". It's unclear whether he's saying she's a god or just from the moon.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 04:04:54 PM by Clarste »

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2012, 06:01:09 PM »
Since her supposed deitic properties aren't mentioned anywhere, I'm going to go out on a limb and venture that ZUN meant she's from the moon.

I'd like to see remakes of EoSD, PCB and IN with MoF-style graphics, sound quality and gameplay. EoSD is especially hard to get back into what with the slow movement and oddly sized bullets.

Really gotta disagree with re-doing Imperishable Night. I loved the art for that game, and Stages 5 and 6 are among my favorites in the series, art-wise. The gameplay has enough going on that it stays very interesting, and the music is fantastic. I don't think MoF quite lives up to IN, to be honest.  Having said that, EoSD and PCB could stand to use some tweaking, especially in the art department.

I think ZUN's art continues to improve, although UFO definitely was a step sideways. Going into Stage 4 of Ten Desires reminded me of what he's capable of again.

What I'd like to see is a game with multiple possible routes. IN and GFW do this in a limited way, but I mean like, five or six possible starting paths that branch out from there. Might make for a massive game, but hell, I'd totally play it.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2012, 06:27:32 PM »
I agree Imperishable Night was very beautiful and by a long shot, had the best atmosphere. Right after it, there's MoF.

I kinda wonder what caused the sudden change in graphics style in UFO and in some parts of TD? It's like he took a big step backward, then stumbled foward.

pineyappled

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2012, 10:12:57 PM »
Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2012, 10:30:30 PM »
Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?

Say what now? I thought this was about Eirin's various fandom interpretations!

I'm joking, it's pretty crazy how it flew out the window.

Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2012, 02:19:54 AM »
Wasn't this thread about CGI Touhou anime?

Not since reply 27, try to keep up.  :V


Regarding IN:
I actually think the art and atmosphere for IN is fine as is, I just imagine it would seem out of place if every other game had uniform graphics. Not particularly bad in comparison, just a bit jarring, like remaking a five year old series for a more powerful modern console, but leaving out the middle game in the series.

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2012, 02:40:55 AM »
Regarding IN:
I actually think the art and atmosphere for IN is fine as is, I just imagine it would seem out of place if every other game had uniform graphics. Not particularly bad in comparison, just a bit jarring, like remaking a five year old series for a more powerful modern console, but leaving out the middle game in the series.

I guess a slight revamp in graphics, like for some bullets, would look nice, but IN isn't so bad, compared to, let's say, PCB or EoSD. Those are really far behind IN, especially when it comes to lasers >_>

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2012, 02:53:28 AM »
Yeah, there's a reason why I use the retexture patch for EoSD.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Ikari

  • I'm just so charismatic
  • It's turning into derp
Re: Am I the only one who prefers...?
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2012, 02:57:29 AM »
Yeah, there's a reason why I use the retexture patch for EoSD.

For the hitbox, OBVIOUSLY.